"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins." is a lie.

[TacticalPeek]

Obama was asked by a voter via video why he did not wear the American flag in his lapel.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us," he said.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/international/Obama_and_Clinton_on_defensive_in_tense_debate.html?siteSect=143&sid=8982383&cKey=1208401641000&ty=ti

Compare to:

"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000

One of those statements is a lie - take your pick.

[Justitia]

1. As compared to "I was ducking SNIPER FIRE", I brokered peace in Ireland, etc., etc.

Flag pins????

You're nuts.

[TacticalPeek]

7. It's not the flag pin. It's the lie.

He was for the pin before he was against the pin. Except he's not against the pin.

This rookie will be Kerry Dukakised into oblivion.

[Justitia]

15. Yeah, tell that to Ken Starr. A freaking flag pin is sooo much worse than lying about war. -eom

[JasonHill]

25. baseless assumption

you only say that because of your bias. Polls have showed that these manufactured controversies have made him stronger, including reaching all time highs in the Gallup Poll while hillary reached all-time lows during the campaign in trustworthyness, etc. Please be more fair in the future.

[Zhade]

32. There's no lie. He said he's never said he wouldn't wear one, and he said he wore one.

Those statements don't contradict each other.

[superkia]

95. So are you saying that you and the majority of Americans will...

be voting for another bush because the two democrats have lied? I am very confused if that is what you are saying, I don't see Americans being THAT stupid!

[roguevalley]

65. sweet jesus. this is stupid. my grandpa never wore a flag pin and

he never put his hand over his heart for the anthem. (THESE ARE THINGS RONALD REAGAN MADE POPULAR!) My grandpa joined the American Expeditionary Force to fight the Germans in WWI. He stood when he heard the anthem just like Obama. For the love of god, will you please understand what you are saying here. FLAG PINS!?!?!

[rodeodance]

71. hillary has apologized, not once but twice. Do you accept it? or just continue

with your demeaning insults.

mature people accept apologies and move on.

[DemVet]

103. A lie is a lie. Obama has told many others, of course.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Did you seriously waste a post on this?

[rodeodance]

74. which is it for you?? Lie # 1 Or 2??

[EFerrari]

3. That's IT! I'm voting for Nader!

:rofl:

[Catherina]

4. I understand now.

Obama's too complex for anyone whose mind thinks 2 + 3 = 2

[sandnsea]

And aren't you pathetic that you give a shit about this

but don't care that Hillary just promised to turn the ME into WWIII. Fucking idiots.

[rodeodance]

73. Which lie of his do you want ?

[BenDavid]

5. obama said wright was a marine.hell tim mcvey was in the Army

[EFerrari]

13. Sometimes ignorance is embarrassing even for the witnesses. n/t

[2rth2pwr]

106. LOL!

good one.

[scheming daemons]

23. You got that line directly from the Luntz focus group on Fox.... use you're own material.....

...that's pathetic, BenDavid.

[DemVet]

104. So, you were watching also?

Besides I saw the same thing used on CNN today.

[Justitia]

24. WTF? Your posts are always the most freakish ones on this site.

And really, really offensive.

[roguevalley]

67. and Hilarity was in the bosnian war as a seal.

On this board, you don't diss a person's service in the military. Take your post and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. DON'T DISS MILITARY SERVICE!

[mckeown1128]

99. Wright didn't mass murder people...

You are disgusting for trying to make the connection.

[merh]

6. keep up with the news

or even the question asked. He was wearing a pin because a vet gave it to him and asked him to wear it.

And why didn't they ask hillary why she doesn't wear a flag pin?

And why didn't they ask her why she supported NAFTA then denied she supported it and now says she doesn't support it?

[Sensitivity]

8. There is ABSOLUTELY NO CONTRADICTION. Is there some CLINTONIAN method for parsing that creates one?

[Hoof Hearted]

12. YES THERE IS AND ALL-CAPS DOESN"T CHANGE THAT

[roguevalley]

68. she half assed admitted she lied about bosnia. she's a liar by her

own admission. spin that.

[TacticalPeek]

19. Try to follow this parsing.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins"

v.

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."


Get it?

[Usrename]

47. How about this:

I used to wear a flag pin - then I decided I won't wear that pin because the whole idea of it being a substitute for true patriotism is repulsive to me - and now that everybody knows how I feel about this issue it no longer bothers me to wear one again.


Where exactly is the lie?

Come on, don't be shy.

[TacticalPeek]

49. "Where exactly is the lie?"

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins."

How about that?

ps - note that this is not the same thing as saying 'I changed my mind' or now that people know blahblahblah, etc. - rather this is a denial of a fact on the public record.

[Usrename]

55. That doesn't seem to be a lie, it's a true statement.

He used to wear one all the time. He took it off and he explained why. I still don't see anything at all dishonest here.

[casus belli]

63. So to take your "logic" one step further...

"I decided I wouldn't wear the red tie", is the same as "I don't wear ties".

Fail.

[Hoof Hearted]

9. K&R, he told a HOST of lies tonight! Thanks for the post!

[emilyg]

59. And he'll tell more.

[roguevalley]

69. and hilarity will still lose.

[emilyg]

70. Name calling does not become you. Very

cute little doggie.

[DearAbby]

10. A flag pin matters how?

I mean really...people are dying in Iraq...but a fucking flag pin matters most to you.

[Lucinda]

22. It's not the pin. It's the lie.

[Justitia]

27. It's not the blowjob. It's the lie. Jesus H. Christ, it's Impeachment 2.0 in here. -eom

[DearAbby]

35. What lie?

[DearAbby]

110. what lie?

[TacticalPeek]

31. A flag pin doesn't matter to me. I hate flag pins.

I think you shouldn't wear a flag of any kind unless your commanding officer makes it part of your service uniform, and I mean military service not law enforcement.

This is not about the pin. It's about lying and how the RW can take that lie and cram it down OObama's throat eight ways from Sunday, and say hello President McfuckingCain.

[TacticalPeek]

34. A flag pin doesn't matter to me at all. I hate flag pins.

I think you shouldn't wear a flag of any kind unless your commanding officer makes it part of your service uniform, and I mean military service not law enforcement.

This is not about the pin. It's about lying and how the RW can take that lie and cram it down Obama's throat eight ways from Sunday, and then say hello President McfuckingCain.

Notice how not a single Obama supporter on this thread can address the lie issue and instead insist on restating my post into something about the pros and cons of flag pin wearing? Telling.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. I love how Clinton folks justify this sort of BS by saying "This is what McCain's gonna do"

Guess what- McCain isn't trying to play off this meaningless garbage, YOU ARE.

As for "no one can address the lie issue"- that's because THERE IS NO LIE.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins."

Did he? No.

In your little "GOTCHA" lie, this is what he said:

"You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."

I know you think you're a veritable Woodward & Bernstein here with these quotes you've dug up, but the fact of the matter is deciding he won't wear THAT pin is not the same thing as saying "I don't wear flag pins" and CERTAINLY not the same thing as saying "I refuse to wear flag pins". He stopped wearing ONE pin, he didn't make a blanket rejection of all pins for all time. Got it, "scoop"?

No, this isn't about flag pins, of course. This is about desperation in Camp Clinton, throwing whatever lame bullshit they can at Obama in hopes that it'll stick.

Pathetic.

[TacticalPeek]

58. Got it - your case is that he was talking about some specific one pin he no longer wears.

So far you are the only response that tries to address the problem, and you have given a solution. Sadly I think it will be as effective as arguing over the meaning of 'is', which though technically possible, is ineffective politically. Even if you take it further, where he said he wouldn't wear it on his chest, leaving open the possibility of wearing it in his lapel, or on his tieclip, whatever, this counter is silly.

So far, it looks like his campaign arguing over what he meant would just make it worse.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Here's a question- seriously- is anyone besides you even trying to argue that these two statements

are contradictory?

Because personally, I wouldn't be terribly concerned about this as an "issue".

[NanceGreggs]

11. Ah, yes ...

... THE most important issue facing our nation today - who does or doesn't wear a flag-pin.

You're just the kind of voter the flag-pin-wearing idiots are counting on in November.

I'm sure Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld were proudly wearing flag-pins when they discussed torture. What could be MORE patriotic?

[TexasLady]

14. I wouldnt WANT a person voting for Obama if THAT was a big issue

please...McCain IS your man.
sorry edited to mean my post is towards opie, not you Nance.

[TacticalPeek]

39. Fuck McCain.

:grr:

[EFerrari]

18. There was probably a bowl of them in the hallway outside that principals' meeting.

I don't doubt there were flags flying at Abu Graib and at Gitmo, too.

If we're not careful, that flag will be the modern equivalent of the Confederate battle flag.

[leftstreet]

21. Lapels, hell! Cheney, Rice & Rumsfeld probably had 'em pinned to their flesh!

:D

[TexasLady]

26. tatooed even~!!

oh wait, that'd hurt, wouldnt it
:rofl:

[grasswire]

16. I thought about that when he said it tonight.

I thought "Didn't he say he wouldn't wear a pin?"

[bookman]

17. I disagree

.and who cares anyway about the damn flag pin!

Men and women are dying. The country is going to hell. Flag pin? Really?

[Swamp Rat]

20. Obama was given a flag pin by disabled Veteran Philip Fiumara, Jr. - Video here:

http://www.disaboom.com/Blogs/disabled_politico/archive/2008/04/16/barack-obama-given-flag-pin-by-disabled-veteran-with-video.aspx

You should amend your op.

[Justitia]

29. These morons thought he should have embarrassed the disabled vet for everyone to see.

They disgust me.

[Swamp Rat]

33. Yes. Please post your comments in my thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5542877

[TacticalPeek]

42. The video shows him accepting a pin from a vet. That has what to do with my post, Swamp Rat?

I fail to see what that has to do with Obama lying about saying "I won't wear that pin on my chest" earlier.

What exactly do you think I should amend and why?

:shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

46. What was Obama supposed to do, shit on the disabled vet by refusing to wear it?

""I won't wear that pin on my chest" earlier" has no context, and I am not confident you are quoting his words accurately.

Show me video footage of him making statements and then lying about them. I want to see and hear his words, the incontrovertible proof he "lied."

Sho' me da money!

[TacticalPeek]

54. "I am not confident you are quoting his words accurately"

I am not quoting him, ABC news is quoting him in an interview at the link in the OP - read the link and question ABC News. Maybe they got it wrong and the Obama campaign can straighten them out, but I doubt it. If he were misquoted about something so potentially controversial I feel sure his campaign would have corrected it promptly.

No, I think he said it alright - and that's fine in itself as it is my person sentiment, also. I think wearing a flag pin disrespects the country in just the way Obama said, but I'm not running for prez.

If he was gonna jump on that bull and edumacate us about patriotism then he needed to ride it until the buzzer sounds, not wind up backing off and then getting backed into a corner where he lied about it. You heard what he said tonight, and there will soon be a transcript I imagine.

The link in the original post has the video of the prior statement. It's a RW ad waiting to happen.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3690000

[dbonds]

28. Next you will be saying he doesn't have a magnetic yellow ribbon on his car.

[Zhade]

30. Wow, you need to go back to spin class.

"I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins" means he's never said he WON'T wear one.

""You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin..."" means he had a pin, which in NO WAY WHATSOEVER contradicts the first statement, which was that he HASN'T said he won't wear one. In other words, he'd wear one. And he did.

You're the one who's lying here, and badly, to yourself.

[TacticalPeek]

38. Maybe you should read more closely, starting with the end of the sentence you quote:

"I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest"

Do you not agree that this contradicts his statement tonight that "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins"?

I'm even willing to entertain arguments about the meaning of the word 'is' or in this case the meaning of 'won't' and 'don't' and 'refuse'. Let's see the case because that's all Obama has left his supporters on this one unless he can figure a way to put it to bed, at which he does not seem good.

[Levgreee]

36. "I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest." how is that the same as refusing to wear pins?

or not wearing pins in any circumstance?

[anonymous171]

37. Politics of Division strike again.

[johnnydrama]

40. help me out here

Give me what Obama should have said when the disabled veteran asked him to wear the flag pin yesterday?

Think about it for a little bit, and give me what Obama should have answered.

[TacticalPeek]

44. "Give me what Obama should have said"

He should have said "Thanks" and worn it proudly if that's what he wants.

But he should not have said earlier "I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest". And certanly, having said it, he should not have denied it tonight, contradicting the public record.

[woolldog]

108. He misspoke.

;)

[WA98296]

41. Read your own words after you remove your head from Hilary's Republican a,,,rmpit.

[Brundle_Fly]

43. Nice OP

Hows being pro war going for you?

[TacticalPeek]

45. Why would you say that I am pro war? What a ridiculous assertion!

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Your idiotic insult is pulled out of thin air.

[ruggerson]

51. You don't get the dynamic

when Hillary tells a story that didn't happen, it's a "fucking lie."

When Obama completely contradicts himself and flatly denies he made a statement that he did indeed make, that makes YOU a warmonger.

Get with the program.

[babylonsister]

48. WTF is your problem with this? He doesn't wear one and explained

why. He's right, BTW. GAWD! How about concentrating on something that actually matters, like this fucking war? :grr:

[TacticalPeek]

60. Just watch out about the war insults, ok?

My son is in Fallujah tonight and I guarangoddamtee you that I pay attention to this motherfucking war.

It's 72º and dusty in Fallujah now.

How much time have you spent in jail for antiwar activities? How many arrests? Let's compare radical creds and get this warmonger shit out of the way.

The way it looks to me is we are about to push a rookie Kerry Dukakis into the fight and he's gonna be shredded and what should have been a near certain Dem win could result in President McCain giving that son of a bitch, Petraeus, the green light to become the next fucking MacArthur, and my son will be rotated over there again and again and again like it is now.

We disagree, you and I, about Obama and his merits and his chances, but don't give me shit about focus on the war and the attendant implications.

Dig?

[Armstead]

77. Um, your candidate supported this war and stabbed the anti-war movement in the back

[JeffR]

52. Wow! That nefarious, treasonous trickster!!!

Thanks for the warning, fellow citizen. To the barricades, my American brethren!

[Political Heretic]

53. Well you've convinced me. I can't support Obama because of flag pin inconsistency.

Thank you for showing me the light.

[pointsoflight]

56. Looking for a job at ABC?

Apparently so. Because that flag pin is oh so much more important than things like Iraq, the economy, torture, warrantless wiretapping, etc., etc. Is that you George?

[barb162]

57. I pick the second, it makes lesser sense than the first statement

Neither statement makes much sense though.

[ZombieHorde]

61. I am sorry, but a I just do not see the contradiction in those statements.

He was clearly talking about the pins politicians were wearing after 9/11, and not flag pins in general.

[SeattleGirl]

64. I don't give a flying fuck if he wears a flag pin or not.

I think this is a complete non-issue.

George Bush wears a flag pin, and he's the worst fucking president we've ever had.

I want someone with integrity in the white house, not someone who thinks patriotism and honor are shown just by wearing a stupid flag pin.

[Buzz Clik]

66. LOL! Another handful of shit slides down the wall.

[golddigger]

96. LOL! Be careful you don't get wall burns.

:evilgrin:

[izzybeans]

72. The OP is the dishonest one.

Learn to read.

[locker13]

75. there is no contradiction

if you know how to read

[redqueen]

76. Of all the desperate spinning that's going on...

your "lie" is at least CLOSE to being an actual lie.

Still a miss though... as it seems obvious to me that in the second quote, he didn't mean he'd NEVER wear one... just that he wasn't going to do it reflexively due to 9/11 fever.

Thanks for playing! :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

78. He said that THEN. Obama did not say that he would "NEVER" wear a flag pin.

DAMN! Ain't ya proud that ya still got faces?

[Quixote1818]

80. Good Point. And the OP left this part off

"Instead," he said, "I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism."

[4_Legs_Good]

79. No lie!

He said he made a decision not to wear one because of idiotic false patriotism in light of the abuses taken in the aftermath of 9/11. He didn't say he refuses to wear one. Whether or not he said "I don't wear one" seems neither here nor there. I'm sure if one day he decided it would be a good ornament he might wear one, but he's NOT wearing one as a substitute for *real* patriotism the way Repukes do.

I can't believe we're arguing about the stupid f*cking pin!

David

[Quixote1818]

81. Delete

[Quixote1818]

82. Welcome to DU Charlie Gibson!

:hurts:

[uponit7771]

83. You DO know that they are only giving us 3 post a day right?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. Either you don't contradict those comments, or you're misrepresenting them.

Either stupid or lying.

Take your pick.

[JBoy]

85. Good to hear you're focused on the important issues.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

86. Big deal.

Politicians lie. If they didn't they would neither attain or hold office.

Some just do it better than others.

[Citizen Kang]

87. If flag pins are THAT important to you

you should be posting on FreeRepublic.com because you are no Democrat

[suffragette]

88. The flag pin non-issue is a Republican engineered

innuendo and smear campaign designed to create doubts in voters' minds about Obama's patriotism.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179930.php

More about Nedra Pickler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedra_Pickler

More about Roger Stone

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802250009


I hate to see crap like that cited here on DU.

[maddiejoan]

89. He should totally wear this!

It's so in your face!

I know I would if I were him!

[Texas Hill Country]

90. k&r

[kikiek]

91. I don't believe that was the only time he wasn't telling the truth last night! Good catch!

[Alexander]

92. Special delivery for a Mr. Peek.

[spanone]

93. such a totally horseshit issue

[bobbert]

94. .

deleted message

[sueragingroz]

97. lie... flip/flop... tomato... tomato...

K & R :)

[bklyncowgirl]

98. Who gives a flying fuck?

Seriously,I have never heard of a more non non-issue in my life.

[frogcycle]

100. makes ya just want to spit, doesn't it

assholes. all of them assholes
this place is a zoo

[Orangepeel]

101. If this is the worst "lie" you can find, he's the most honest politician in history

[BootinUp]

102. Great thread to relieve tension, lol.

[demwing]

105. IDIOCY

Do you not understand the difference between "I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins" and "I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest"

The first is a sweeping, general statement about all pins. The second is a statement a bout a specific pin under a specific set of circumstances.

This is the 2nd most moronic accusation I have heard against any candidate, the first being the "flip off."

Pathetic and sad....

[Milo_Bloom]

107. Neither is a lie. They are not mutually exclusive.

[boppers]

109. Won't, don't and refuse are three different words, with three different meanings.

Trying to equate them all as being exactly the same thing is silly.

Here's an exercise, see if you can spot the difference:
I won't lie about being under sniper fire.
I don't lie about being under sniper fire.