Great Article: The Party's Over, Why Clinton Has To Pack It In After This Debate.

[AllexxisF1]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/the-partys-over-why-clint_b_97113.html


Wow! great article from the Huffington post that EVERY HILLARY SUPPORTER SHOULD READ.

Clinton's only real chance to win the nomination was for Obama to make a tremendous gaffe - so tremendous that he self-destructed and all the remaining Superdelegates turned to Clinton as the savior of the party - and the only place a hyper-intelligent guy like Obama would possibly slip up is in a highly public, unscripted setting like a debate. But he didn't slip up, and it's starting to look like there won't even be any more debates. At this point the entire endgame is predictable. Clinton, like a good chess player, can easily see that the remaining moves inevitably lead to checkmate; it's time for her to tip over her King and concede defeat.


Will the Democratic Party's power brokers give up the White House, the Senate, lots of House seats, and one or two Supreme Court slots, all so Hillary can have a second bite at the apple in 2012? Not a chance. Is it smart to keep priming the pump for the Republican campaign against Obama, given the reality that he's going to be the nominee? Absolutely not. The good of the party, and the country, are more important than the Clintons' egos and sense of entitlement. Hillary needs to bow out gracefully now - preserving her Senate seat, her good name, her standing in the party, and possibly a shot at one of those seats on the Supreme Court. That should be more than enough for anyone. And if she won't, it's time to pull the plug whether she likes it or not.

[SteppingRazor]

1. Meh, I certainly don't think she'll bow out before the election next Tuesday...

and in the off chance that Obama wins, it would give her recourse to bow out gracefully.

[marmar]

2. Quite honestly, she hasn't displayed much grace or class in this campaign....

.... Maybe it will change, but I'm not hopeful.

[Terran]

7. Agreed

But anything short of +10% victory in Pennsylvania should be enough to say to her, "it's time to go."

[SteppingRazor]

19. That would certainly be a Pyrrhic victory.

If Clinton wins in the single-digits, any delegates she picks up (probably amounting to no more than 5 to 8) would be made up by Obama in North Carolina -- and then some, more than likely.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. *cough* Make that +20%.

That is the reality.

[SteppingRazor]

39. Well, given the current polling, I think a 20-percent victory margin would justify her staying in.

After all, she hasn't polled a 20-percent gap in many moons, so such a victory would be taken as an incredible rebuke of Obama.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. Agree.

If she wins by 20+%, she should stay in.

The moment she performs under 20+% in any of the next primaries she has massively hurt her cause.

[Terran]

47. Mmm, a 19% win?

That's a pretty damn big margin. Not enough to change the numbers much but enough to convince a lot of people she should stay in. It's all perception at this point, and very little hard reality, that's propping her up.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

61. 19% is big enough.

She can stay.

Chances of that happening? 0.00000009%

[NorthCarolina]

14. Even if she were to lose to Obama in PA, do you really think she would bow out?

She has said several times that she's taking her candidacy all the way to the convention. Based on her tactics to date, I have no reason to doubt her resolve in this issue either. Party loyalty and best interests of the country be damned, to her it's simply about Hillary.

[SteppingRazor]

18. Candidates are obliged to say they're in it all the way.

IIRC, John Edwards said he was in it till the end ... what? Two weeks before he dropped out? Less?

No candidate would ever say they're going to drop out. It demoralizes supporters and suppresses the vote. As for your question, yes, if Clinton actually lost Penn. (something I don't think will happen), I do think she'd drop out of the race.

[jaysunb]

27. Money realities won't permit too much more

unless she lends herself some more, or screws more creditors. :evilfrown:

[Terran]

48. Huckabee said the same thing

and I think he's a lot nuttier than Hilary. At least I hope he is.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. The DNC is losing money for every day she stays in

which helps McInsane.

[Mme. Defarge]

3. Can't ge enough of this kind of talk ...

I'm so ready for this to be over! Thanks for the post.

[Oleladylib]

4. She would be the only one to stand up to J. McCain in a debate...face it...

[olkaz]

6. Face what?

McCain is god-awful at debating.

Either candidate will make him look silly and out of touch.

You really ought to post a message along with your inflammatory titles so we can actually debate a little.

[Hepburn]

11. Latte spew...

...stand up by doing what??? Comparing her bravery under sniper fire in Bosnia to his military record???

Please...with those lies about Bosnia, she has TOTALLY made herself an unsuitable candidate to run against someone who was for real and actually under fire and who was a POW.

She did it to herself with those lies. There is NO way we can allow her to face someone who for real has more than mega done what she lied about.

Get a clue....:eyes:

[roguevalley]

21. face what again? I could beat uncle asshole like a rug. Good god.

she compliments the old bastard all the time. what stand up? They practically are running together.

[splat]

5. Does Obama think he needs to get Hillary to fold before he makes a big gaffe?

All candidates have the right to run for as long as they like. The pressure to drop out seems to have come from these new voters -- historically, all sorts of candidates show up at the convention.

[nichomachus]

13. You're missing the point

It's not about what she has a "right" to do. No one says she doesn't have the "right" to do whatever she wants. It's about what's best for the process and, ultimately, the party.

Joe Lieberman had the "right" to sabotage the Democratic party -- and we all hate him for doing it.

[splat]

22. You're missing the point that a lot of people don't think O is best for party or country

The O bandwagon looks like American Idol. We won't be fooled again.

Been promised "hope and change" all our lives. A rookie can't deliver that.

[wileedog]

24. You're missing the point that that ship has sailed

She can't win. The math is what it is.

I'm sure a lot of people here think Edwards is better than both of them. Guess what? Her chance of winning is only minutely higher than his at this point, and she can do a whole more damage just to draw out her minuscule chance.

[nichomachus]

25. If all you have is insults

about Obama suypporters -- and that's all I see these days from Hillary people -- it signals that you're out of issues.

Hillary supporters need to start telling us why Hillary is good -- not simply telling us that Obama supporters are silly and stupid children -- unless all Hillary has left in her bucket is mud. That's what it's beginning to look like.

[redqueen]

32. Beginning?

It's look like that to me for months.

[otohara]

46. A Lot More People

disagree with you! It's called the majority and if Hillary & her supporters can't accept defeat, then that's just sad and un-American. There's a winner and a loser in this race - this one won't be stolen by a handful of superdelegates.

[Voltaire]

15. Not a new voter

She needs to get the fuck out for the good of the party.

[roguevalley]

23. he doesn't have to do anything but keep beating her ass.

[DB1]

8. Good article, reminds us of what is at stake. Hillary, you have great supporters but it is time.

[asjr]

9. This came from HuffPo which is

anti-Hillary Clinton. Enough said.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. Reality has a well-known anti-Hillary bias.

(hint: she can't win and won't be the nominee.)

[stillcool]

58. What sources are you using these days?

[asjr]

10. This came from HuffPo which is

anti-Hillary Clinton. Enough said.

[AllexxisF1]

16. Yea, the facts don't matter....

Whether it's the Huffington Post or my handwriting on toilet paper, facts are facts.

• Clinton has zero chance of winning the popularly-elected delegates. Obama has a 162-pledged-delegate lead. The remaining primaries (Pennsylvania, Guam, Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Puerto Rico, Montana, South Dakota) offer a total of 566 pledged delegates. That means Clinton needs to win over 64% of all the remaining delegates - basically 2/3 of every delegate remaining - to gain the nomination democratically. Up until now, she's won only about 49%; only 42% of Democrats nationwide prefer her to Obama; and even in Pennsylvania, the biggest remaining state and the one she's most likely to win, she's only polling at 50%. She's not going to get two-thirds of the vote in Pennsylvania, let alone anywhere else. She. Can't. Mathematically. Win. The. Popular.Vote.


IT'S ....FUCKING....OVER.

[thereismore]

17. Read the whole article. It's spot on. nt

[Adelante]

20. I have said she shouldn't get out until she decides to get out

But this article presents a convincing argument.

[jaysunb]

26. This, is the REAL problem....

The Republicans are picking up on every single Clinton attack. For instance, Clinton's been hammering Obama for truthfully saying that working-class Americans have been screwed by the D.C. establishment and are angry and bitter about it; now McCain's running that ball. She's giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and the enemy's happy as clams at high tide to let her. That's why billionnaire rightwing wingnut Richard Mellon Scaife, who was behind most of the attacks against both Clintons in the '90s, supports Hillary. That's why Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox News and the Wall Street Journal, supports Hillary. That's why John McCain himself supports Hillary. It's time for us Democrats to get real, grow up, and stop enabling Hillary to run the Democratic Party's chances into the ground.

[Phillycat]

29. Because I always decide who to vote for based on a random blogger's opinion.

[AllexxisF1]

30. The Blogger?...or the facts?

The Blogger?...or the facts?

[MindMatter]

31. The Supreme Court speculation is an interesting twist

I'd be OK with that.

There is a lot to recommend that sort of outcome. President Obama will certainly name several justices. As an appointment for life, there must be a certain appeal to Hillary for that.

And I would enjoy the imagery of her bitch-slapping Clarence Thomas with some regularity. (And it is just a figure of speech, I'm not calling her a bitch. Clarence is the bitch in this case, but I'm not calling him a bitch either, so you Thomas supporters should just chill out.)

[msallied]

33. Wha-wha-WHAT?

Look, I know after the recent stacking of the Supreme Court with conservatives we feel we too must pull things in the opposite direction, but we must be VERY careful to protect the SCOTUS from POLITICIANS. It is for JUDGES. Hillary Clinton is no judge.

[MindMatter]

36. I take your point

I don't really agree with it. Time on the bench is not a factor I value very highly. The Supreme Court, in general, does not deal in the day-to-day issues that might require the creativity of a clever, experienced judge, so I definitely value this on the local level.

The SC is different. They are mostly called upon to settle issues that represent, for the lake of a more precise term, the evolution of our society -- the community standards, if you will. I don't think that spending 20 years on a bench necessarily qualifies a person for that duty. The only thing it really does is to establish a paper trail that would give us some clue how the judge, as a SC Justice, might lean on the important societal issues of the day. We already pretty much know that about Hillary, so I wouldn't have a problem with her lack of bench time.

[Cosmocat]

42. I am going to say this once again ... N E V E R ...

Not a chance, not a single chance, Hillary will ever be a Supreme Court justice ...

What group is the most invested in Supreme Court justices ??? The lunatic fringe fundies ... And, to them, who is the human embodiement, literally, of the anti-christ ... Hillary ...

You have not seen anarchy in this country until you see those nutjobs if Hill was a Supreme Court nominee ... NO republican senator could vote her ... NONE ... And, the sound machine from the right, and do not think it would not be played by the MSM like this - the republican party backdoors the american people by putting Hill in the Supreme Court ...

Bottom line, there is no a president who has ever lived that could withstand the backlash to nominating Hillary for the Supreme Court ...

That aside, I honestly don't see her wanting the supreme court, but that is another post ...

[MindMatter]

52. That seems like the best argument for doing it.

If the Party would eliminate the Clinton distraction, we have a real chance to get a fillibuster-proof Senate this year.

And even if it it not quite fillibuster-proof, an Obama tide could put Democrats into a very powerful position. If the right wing wants any of their agenda served at all, then they will have to deal, and part of that deal would be to level out the Supreme Court.

[Tresalisa]

60. I don't see her wanting the Supreme Court, either.

If she's not our nominee, and that is starting to look pretty likely, I think she'll run again in 2012 or 2016, depending on whether Obama or McCain gets elected.

[MattBaggins]

49. oh fer ......'s sake

the right will never ever in a million years let Hillary sit on the Supreme Court.

[MindMatter]

51. Why not? They seem to be happy having her as President.

[barack the house]

34. From all I have read I can't see her pulling out. We just have to hold in tight and be aptient.

If the party step in or early convention great but in all honesty this is a long haul.

[cliffordu]

35. I disagree.

Clinton, like the crooked checkers player she really is, will scream;

"Look!! Haley's Comet!!!"


and then slam the board with her shot glass to end the game prematurely.

[bigwillq]

38. Until Obama wins the needed delegates

there's no reason for Clinton to drop out. And vice versa if Obama were behind.
I certainly wouldn't "quit" at this point.

[AllexxisF1]

40. So even...

So even if you added the math and figured out that Holy Shit I can't possibly win...you would still stay in and ask people to donate hard earned money for a cause that is simply doomed? Or worse yet, put up millions of your own Saudi fed dollars?


Hmmmmmmm someone staying the course even though there is no hope of success for the sake of just staying in.....SOUNDS REALLY FAMILIAR.

[bigwillq]

43. The math

doesn't seem to add up for Obama either...It's going to be hard for him to win the needed delegates during the primaries. It's probably going to go to supers anyway no matter who wins the nod.

[MindMatter]

53. Have you not been paying any attention at all?

The Superdelegates are breaking for Obama. Nothing short of a 30-point spread in PA is going to change that now.

If PA is close, Obama will gain 35 supers in the next two weeks. And after NC and IN, Obama will be close enough on the numbers that 75 or more supers will come out. And that is the game over.

[TragedyandHope]

44. Well I'm hopeful that she will do the right thing after NC

But I'm prepared to be disappointed.

[Hamlette]

45. There is no way he would giver her a seat on the Supreme Court now

unless she made a deal...maybe she's tried (that would have to be top secret so I'm not surprised we've not heard about it.

Of all the wonderful lawyers and Judges in our party, how could he pick a person who is so dirty? That is no who we need on the court.

The Clintons almost seem self destructive. I don't get it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

50. As noted, Hillary is making repeated Queen's Sacrifice in an effort to stay alive

How appropriate.

[AX10]

54. Huffpost proudly hates Hillary.

[futureliveshere]

55. well i doubt if she can take a hint.. But it doesn't hurt to HOPE!! :)

[BenDavid]

56. Maybe HRC is doing us Dems a favor so we'll still have a

viable candidate for when Obama shoots himself in the foot badly enough that even the whoremedia can't salvage his candidacy.

The 527's will bring all this from wright to ayers right into teh living rooms of all americans. I truly believe the far left has hijacked this campaign and they would rather see the dems lose with obama then have hrc as the nominee.....

[Bensthename]

57. She will drop out next week after her PA loss.. She will have run out of spin and arguement.

[Cha]

59. Well written piece and puts into perspective

how it is with clinton.