I have a sick feeling in my stomach...

[garybeck]

I didn't watch the debate last night because this stuff just makes me too mad anymore. But I've been reading about it,and the more I read about it, the more I feel like something nasty is happening.

From what I'm reading, it seems clear that the corporate media is pushing heavily for Hillary to pull this off somehow. The front page headlines about bitterness and Rev Wright make it clear... I don't think they are just trying to drag it out for ratings. We already know the corporations and their DLC want Hillary.... Now the media too.... The reason I'm particularly concerned is that when the corporations and the media want something, they usually get it.

They're not stupid. They've seen the numbers like we all have. Hillary's only chance is a coup by the superdelegates, but even then she'd have to get something like 70% of the uncommitted superdelegats to go her way and nearly every day one or two more go for Obama. They know there's almost no way for her to get the delegates, superdelegates, or votes she needs.

Something's afoot. I don't know what it is... But Hillary and the media and the corporations are not stupid. They are legitimizing her remaining in the race and continuing to hammer Obama because they want her to win the nomination. And they usually get what they want.

This doesn't pass the sniff test to me.

[Iwasthere]

1. I have been thinking the same thing

We have to expose them. Keep your eyes and ears open!

[undergroundpanther]

2. same thing here

corporate piggies watch each other's backs.

[Bonobo]

8. They do what you're talking about, they'd better expect some blood to be spilled.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mac2]

3. I hate to be the messager but the winner, or those who are

of the same agenda, are already picked to win by the elite few. They decide what and how of everyting we do now.

Corporate power rules America. They are also destroying our democracy. We should pass laws defining corporations are not people. They do not have the same rights. Actually they have more rights since they declare themselves "international" and above anyone's laws. We do have corporate laws but they are not enforced nor CEOs held accountable. Few go to jail for fraud or robbery.

We should enforce the Logan Act to get the politicans, journalists, bankers, rich Americans out of those elite, behind closed doors organizations who decide our fate and policies. Otherwise it is not for us to determine our own future and goals. We have no democracy.

[tridim]

4. It's not just the DLC and Hillary..

The entire machine is against Obama, yet he's handling it all wonderfully and he's still winning.

I hope it's driving them crazy.

[mac2]

12. The whole "machine" is against democracy.

[JVS]

5. Occam's razor. They benefit from a horserace. They also would benefit from a brokered convention.

[havocmom]

13. Occam's Electric Razor: They are owned by giant parent corporations

More than ratings at stake. Who owns what? What policy agendas do the parent corporations want for the greater profit.

Occam lived is simpler times. Sometimes the real motives go beyond the simplest. ;)

[hfojvt]

18. they also benefit from a civil war in the Democratic Party

So either way...

[asjr]

44. The media are the only ones who benefit. They like

to stir up things in the Democratic party. I doubt seriously they care who wins the nomination for the Democrats or if McCain prevails in the GE. It is all about them and their coverage and face time. The media are our enemy. They are the ones who cause us to have the "bitter" disagreements we have now. If we all say we will vote for the Democratic nominee whoever it is, the media will go nuts without having all that turmoil. We do not have a government now and may never have a government if the media have anything to say about it and I am sure they will. Charlie Gibson, T. Russert, Steppinwolfulus, Chris Matthews, Fox people, will have to start complaining about other countries. It would be fascinating if they actually had to report on Iraq.

[hfojvt]

63. No Gibson, Russert, Matthews, etc.

Many of those media big-shots are making million dollar salaries and thus they have a vested interest in defeating Democrats who promise to "raise taxes on people making over $200,000 a year". You think Gibson doesn't care about $250,000? That's how much his taxes might go up if there is a 5% increase on his $5,000,000 salary.

[C_U_L8R]

6. I don't believe they are making any headway

The Clinton team has tried every trick in the book...
and they may fool some people with their gimmicks for a short while
but they will forever resent them for it. The Clintons seem to have
forgotten Marketing 101.

[crankychatter]

7. it's been this way since forever

people are voting for Obama despite a very intense, thinly veiled corporately backed, smear campaign...

the closer he gets the heat goes up

expect more of the same but understand... people are not BUYING IT

don't forget the same tactics got us into War under false pretenses... and even thinking Republicans are awake now...

if we get thru this primary process... it's over

character assassination having failed... we then have other problems to confront

you're right... so give everyone a hug, n get on the phone for your man

[mac2]

16. Demand Obama and his wife get out of the Council on Foreign Relations

or any another secret organization (Trilateral Commission, Bilderburg Group, etc.) who meets behind closed doors and decides our future.

[crankychatter]

36. dangerously depressed paranoids for Jesus and the 2nd Ammendment

Michelle's with the CFR, not Barack... her level of influence and participation is negligible... if you have genuine concerns on this issue...then it's Clinton you should fear...

shhhh.... look out the window... they're hiding in the bushes with AK's... the New World Order... Obama's a Manchurian Candidate... they're gonna get you...

be AFWAID BE VEWY afwaid.... shhhhh

[mac2]

46. No both their names are listed.

Obama is a candidate because of his membership. So is Hillary.

You know it isn't race since Condi Rice and Colin Powell are part of the secret government elite. We've given those organizations power by ignoring they exist.

[roseBudd]

56. Newsweek had an article on the science of voting likeable candidates cause voters to reject new

negative info, it is part of the reason why kitchen sink isn't hurting Obama. Had kerry been as likeable Swift Boat Vets would not have been as effective.

But it still stinks. Unfortunately McCain is also perceived as likeable.

[cali]

9. Don't worry about it. She's desperate and the MSM is complicit

but the SDs aren't falling for it. Her behavior works against her when it comes to SDs.

[RiverStone]

74. Agreed. Obama is bucking the establishment...

The establishment wants to cling to power.

But the people will decide and Obama will be our nominee.

My biggest concern are the ol voting machine programmers.

[FrenchieCat]

10. My take on where things stand.....

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_frenchie_080417_the_super_duper_dele.htm

[Bensthename]

17. You sure talk pertty.. And you are right... Rec if I could...

[Bensthename]

11. MSM sure is hell trying their hardest to destory Obama but it isnt working.

Hillary has 10 x's the gaffs and baggage but they will not bring them up. Makes me think the same thing for the past several months now.

[DB1]

14. Of course you're right. Do you think the MSM and Corporate America are just going to cave?

Obama is the first real threat since Dean.

[EFerrari]

15. I've already posted this but will one more time.

The whore media isn't pulling for Clinton -- it's attacking the presumptive Dem nominee. If Clinton were about to win, they would have gone after her. Last night was just the kick off of the Fall campaign. Clinton should be gone by now. That's she's around to help the Republicans is just embarrassing for her.

And, if you watch the video from last night, it's pretty obvious that she understands that, too. She looked unhappy, sometimes sad.

[mac2]

19. Obama has been given more attention and praise by the

media than Edwards of Kucinich. What are you crying about?

[EFerrari]

21. Learn to read. n/t

[mac2]

22. I have and you apparently aren't listening or reading but

insulting. Is that all you have to offer?

[Swamp Rat]

23. Don't worry. Hillary totally blew her campaign last night...... She is toast.

"I said some things I knew not to be the case." - Hillary admitted to being a liar during last night's debate.

[mac2]

27. How about the fact that we have no real winner that is good

for America?

[Swamp Rat]

30. That is not a fact. That is your own, personal fear.

I, however, am confident Barack Obama will do a good job for America.

He was not my first, second, or even third pick, but I have gotten to know him in the last two months, and now feel much better about him.

[EFerrari]

31. And the mods didn't bring up, as they should have, her new polls

showing that people don't trust her. Last night was only about tearing down our candidate. She was more or less in the way, anyway.

[Swamp Rat]

34. She cannot win the GE no matter what her supporters say here.

The GOP will burn her alive with that comment.

The repukes I know are gleefully blathering non-stop about this right now: Hillary is a proven liar because SHE SAID SO HERSELF!

:dunce:

[EFerrari]

37. "Hillary against Hillary". That's right!

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

43. ¿Todo bien hermanita?

:D :hug:

[EFerrari]

45. Mejor cuando no falla "ignore"!

:hug:

[PragmatismRules]

24. whatever!

[PragmatismRules]

25. whatever!

[amborin]

26. LOL where were you when the media was bashing Hillary for months on end?

[mac2]

28. I'm not a Hillary fan nor will I vote for her.

[Bensthename]

29. When the media is reporting she is losing states, endorsement,supers, and money...

that is called REPORTING.. Not bashing. Hillary people get that confused.

[Fresh_Start]

32. Duers didn't mind much when corporations took aim at Edwards

because they were already entralled with the Obama/Clinton drama.

[mac2]

35. deleted

[mac2]

38. Only Edwards was a threat to them.

Obama and Clinton are globalists.

[EFerrari]

40. What? You mean when we cheering on our friend symbolman

who flew in to film the Edwards campaign because he was getting no coverage? You mean, then? :wtf:

/oops

[stellanoir]

33. Someone on one of the better NPR shows today (broadcasted from Boston)

said it was as though the Nickelodeon slime machine dumped on Obama.

Pssssssssssssssssstttt. . . After being lied to incessantly for nearly 8 years, I don't think as many of the people are as gullible, undiscerning, naive, or trusting as they used to be.

Obama is a phenomenon who can transcend a whole lot of conventional wisdom and intractable politics of the past.

And yeah I know fully about those nefarious EVM's. He probably should have won already.

http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/2008PrimariesLinks.htm

Check out Obama's moves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtVjsHo_598&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyuLD8FHwJc

If only this got as much coverage as his gutter ball.

[mac2]

42. Why weren't they upset about Edwards being dumped on

about his hair?

[stellanoir]

55. Some were

and there's no question that Edwards was entirely marginalized, as were the seven others.

[Egnever]

39. They are trying real hard to give him a Dean moment.

They really thought they had it with the bitter thing. I think the game has changed though. Its something Obama is aware of but Hillary and the MSM still haven't quite gotten it yet. The internet has leveled the paying field more than they realize. People are no longer restricted to hearing their news from the MSM. Public opinion is no longer firmly in the medias grasp.

If the bitter gate controversy hasn't proven it once and for all nothing will. They hammered him for 4 days straight on it now and are still trying to yet his numbers are going up.

Google has made it too easy for the normal joe to investigate if he wants to know something. This manufactured crap just doesn't stick the way it used to.

They will keep trying though.

I see they are running the weather underground guy. Fortunately we have a candidate in Obama unafraid to address whatever they ask him honestly.

[mac2]

41. He is Dean.

[Life Long Dem]

52. They came down HARD on Obama over this. This was supposed to be it.

The Dean scream. They ganged up on Obama having the newscaster and two guest on with all three ganging up on him, while showing life pieces of Clinton giving her Bittergate speech. And no adequate defense of Obama. Oh sure they kept showing this one clip that didn't explain anything but to say he said he would have worded it differently. Yes this reminded me of the Dean scream that took Dean out. But Obama is smart and played it cool.

[mac2]

54. Read post #49.

[Life Long Dem]

47. It has to do with McSame. It is said to be hurting Obama agaisnst McSame

But is helping or not hurting against Hillary. And they know this. From there it may need to be figured out.

[mac2]

49. It is hurting both of them. No one won.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=311659

Because they weren't debating the right issues.

[barack the house]

48. Just thinking loving thoughts towards media. When we put negative feelings out there it adds to the

emotional pot that is this world. When we choose fear we feed the enative emotions of the world. We have all at some time felt the sense of foreboding we pacify it with love.

[mac2]

51. I'm postive it is the wrong direction!!

Get out of the WTO. Stop the war and have peace. Stop torture and love instead. Protect our borders and our self interest. More good jobs here not in India, etc.(demand more equality in India and all other 3rd world countries). Secret organizations behind closed doors talks about our future is not a good thing for America. Meet in public if this is a democracy.

I'm for human rights not the rights and wealth of the few.

[WatchWhatISay]

50. you're right, they are, but

they won't get away with it this time

[mac2]

53. Read post #49

[ieoeja]

57. He's the front-runner.

The media trains their guns on the front-runner. They did the same to Hillary when she was the front-runner.

[suffragette]

58. It is getting nastier

I, too, didn't watch last night because I didn't want to blow a gasket.

From what I'm reading, I would have.

What angers me the most is that the moderators in any debate are a stand-in for the public and should be voicing the publics' concerns and desires.

Clearly, they are doing anything but that and are instead directing the debates to phony non-issues and gotcha questions. This then is perpetuated in the next day's coverage of the debate which summarizes the above.

A double opportunity is then lost, of first hearing the candidate's responses to the substantive questions which should have been asked and then, the next day, reading about those responses, with, ideally analysis of the answers within the context of greater and the candidate's own history of any past actions to do the issues.

It's a large loss and an important one.

I agree with those who said they went after Obama the hardest because he is the current front-runner.

Perhaps there is also an element there that they already know the areas they'll hammer Clinton on and need to "road test" different ones for Obama.

Either way, the more they can keep the discussion steered away from issues and policy and toward divisive tripe and gotchas, the more it benefits McCain since he is the weakest candidate in that area.

[Skidmore]

59. If Hillary pulls off a coup in the primary, she will lose in the GE.

I would be more than happy to help hand her a hollow victory.

[Skwmom]

60. Corporations aren't stupid enough to put all their eggs in one basket

They'd love a Clinton vs McCain match b/c either way they'd get a corporate hack.

[hvn_nbr_2]

61. Actually there are several things going on here with CorpMedia

1. They want Hillary over Obama. They don't want any Dem but they know they can live with Hillary.
2. Obama is largely an unknown quantity to them, who just might conceivably shake their applecart. They want none of that.
3. They want to damage the Dems enough that McBush will win.
4. They want to keep the political dialog at the level of tabloids because if the dialog is about real issues and if people ever vote on the issues, they (CorpMedia, corporatocracy, and Repugnantism) are frickin' doomed.
5. The CorpMedia blacklist rules were just tightened, so "journalists" are now not even allowed to feign being neutral. It's all propaganda all the time, without even any pretense of journalism.
There are probably a couple more that I'm just not thinking of off the top of my head.

[mac2]

64. They don't fear Hillary or Obama since they are the same

on many issues such as trade and globalism. If they were serious about representing us they would have called for impeachment long ago. It is their duty as Senators. I want to talk about their present and past actions before I give them more power.

[DerekHalfhand]

62. CEO of Disney-ABC already said Hillary should be appointed president not ellected.

The Former CEO of Disney-ABC already said Hillary should just be appointed, and he said it to step.

George Stephanopoulos - and an interview on his time in the Clinton White House.

Michael Eisner ABC CEO till 2005 - says Hillary Clinton should be appointed as a monarch instead of elected.

Walter Cronkite - Gives oath to Satan,(no joke, he says it) then Hillary Clinton congratulates him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flAl9aj6cgo

[mac2]

67. Is this post from Roveland?

[JCMach1]

65. They are not promoting Hillary just kneecapping Obama

for McCain and the sport of it.

[StevieM]

66. Oh please....the media is in the tank for Obama and to pretend otherwise is silly

And I suspect that Obama will win Pennsylvania, his campaign of hatred and personal destruction has worked.

Steve

[depakid]

68. "pushing heavily for Hillary to pull this off somehow."

Maybe, maybe not.

Have a read for yourself and see how YOU think it went (and ask yourself, how might it have been better).

[tinrobot]

69. Actually, they want McCain.

Prolonging the fight between Hillary and Obama gives them ratings, plus it potentially hurts the nominee and splits the party, reducing our chances in the general.

Win win.

[mac2]

75. None of the Presidential candidates seems a good one to me.

People assumed McCain couldn't win. All three are corporatists so they win no matter what or who.

[cornermouse]

70. I'm trying to be non-partisan when I say they asked

questions that made both Obama AND Hillary squirm and as far as I'm concerned they were fairly even handed.

[FrenchieCat]

72. No they weren't!

if they had been, they would have mentioned Colombia, $800,000, Penn, and "screw 'em" White people quote. They didn't.

[cornermouse]

71. url for the transcript.

Rule #1 always go straight to the source.
Rule #2 if it's something you really want to do but suspect it could hurt, do it anyway. Most of the time it's not as bad as what you thought it would be.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4670271&page=1

[RBInMaine]

73. You are just now realizing this?? They WANT Hillary so she'll LOSE the GE to McCain.

[NC_Nurse]

76. They just want to drag it out to keep up their ratings. It's all $ to them.

Fuck 'em.

[catgirl]

79. Bingo

CNN has more than doubled its earnings since the primary season began.
As soon as McCain scandals start emerging, they'll be happy to move on to
the general. It's repulsive.

[demo dutch]

77. I actually think the Mass Media wants neither Dem they want McCain to win!

[mac2]

78. Any of them will do for the media elite.