Obama's honeymoon over, and it shows

[Tellurian]

Thursday, April 17th 2008

Sen. Barack Obama adjust his microphone during Wednesday's debate.

It seems like ancient history now, but not long ago Hillary Clinton argued that Barack Obama was getting a free pass from the media.Those days are over, with moderators, a private citizen and Clinton herself peppering Obama on Wednesday night with a barrage of the kind of tough questions he escaped for more than a year. He answered some better than others, and some not at all. But the mere fact that at least five damaging issues were thrown at him within 30 minutes was testament to how much the race has changed in the six weeks since anti-American remarks by Obama's pastor, the Rev. Jeramiah Wright, became public.

That was the high-water mark of Obama's campaign, and now the cracks are showing. My bet is that his ineffective answers on Wednesday night will mean more doubts among voters and more concern among Democratic superdelegates about whether Obama is electable in November. The result is that Clinton, despite her own electability issues and an imperfect evening, scored a debate victory just a week before the Pennsylvania primary. A loss would knock her out.

But that seems far less likely after Obama's rocky performance. His biggest mistake was ducking a chance to explain what earlier "controversial" comments he had heard from Wright that led him to drop Wright from his campaign opening. Instead of giving an honest answer that would put the issue to rest, Obama called it a "distraction" and defended Wright while calling some of his statements "objectionable." That's putting it too mildly. When Clinton chipped in that "you get to choose your pastor" and added that Obama's church had given an award to Louis Farrakhan and printed an anti-Semitic rant by a Hamas leader, the case was closed permanently.

Obama is clearly guilty of horrible judgment, and maybe worse.

Obama also came close to repeating the snobbishness he displayed when he said small-town residents "cling to guns or religion" out of bitterness. This time he called guns and religion "wedge issues. He then gave an unsatisfactory answer about his relationship with William Ayres, a '60s violent radical. And he didn't answer a viewer's question about why he doesn't wear a flag on his lapel, calling it a "manufactured issue." To him, but not to many Americans.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/04/17/2008-04-17_obamas_honeymoon_over_and_it_shows.html">Memo to Obama: One man's wedge issue is another man's family value. It's time you learned the difference.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emilyg]

2. K

[BootinUp]

61. Aye aye!

[bowens43]

3. Hillary is through

it's all over but some more crying....

[roguevalley]

41. I think they've said its over after every debate. But he just keeps on

winning. Its so DAMNED over for him that he picked up four SD this day. :) With losing like that, I can't imagine what he could do if
he was winning.

[NYCGirl]

4. Check what else your source says: "Hillary Clinton positively unpresidential"

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/02/24/2008-02-24_hillary_clinton_positively_unpresidentia.html

He's a RIGHT WING NUTCASE!

But that's par for the Clintonite course, isn't it?

[Tellurian]

7. So you have nothing to complain about..

True to form the topic in the OP is never addressed by a BO supporter.

and the article you posted about Sen Clinton is nothing more than bloviating hot air by a writer picking up a pay check.

However, he does have something to write about in Obama 's case and he's pretty spot on with his observations.

[Hawkeye-X]

11. Because all you do is post hit pieces, and we Obama supporters

don't have to answer your hit pieces, and know you're not going to change your mind. You still have that infected website to go back to - why not stay there?

It'll be a ghost town in 2 weeks.

Hawkeye-X

[Tellurian]

22. Ck again...I checked it... the His44 site is perfectly fine..

all the embedded stuff is gone... try to keep up bud!

[NYCGirl]

19. So you think he's wrong about Clinton and right about Obama. Figures.

And it doesn't bother you that he's a Republican. OK.

[Tellurian]

30. The article you linked is 2 mos old..

not one thing mentioned in his article has come true... If anything, just the reverse has happened.

[NYCGirl]

34. BFD. NT

[msmcghee]

5. They both get battered by the press . .

It depends on the time and the journalist's pet views they want to expose. All in all - it seemed that Obama spent a lot of time on his answers and that left less time for H to be battered - although she did get a few grenades tossed her way.

I was again struck by how little inspiration Obama engenders in his speaking. When he defended himself he looked down several times (as if in shame) and his eyes showed that his feelings were hurt. I'm sure that reinforced the weak-willed liberal meme for many already inclined to believe it.

Each tough question thrown his way was an opportunity for him to bat it out of the park by explaining the American and human principles that he holds dear and how those connect to the question. Instead, he hemmed and hawed and talked about process.

As a Dem I'm all about process as a way to ensure fairness in government. But fairness is the principle, not process. When Dems talk process, the eyes of most Independents, Republicans and even many Dems - glaze over.

I have a hard time seeing Obama beat McCain (who wears his principles on his sleeve) face to face in the debates.

[cali]

17. He stands a better chance of winning against McCain than Hillary

her unfavorabilities are staggeringly high, and she has never been able to change that. they just get worse. Even so, I think either can beat McCain. It's the economy, stupid.

[msmcghee]

60. Yeah, there's a lot of Hillary hate in this world.

Why do you think that is?

[Champion Jack]

6. New York Daily News? Why don't you just quote Freerepublic?

[NYCGirl]

13. No, the Daily News does have some liberal op-ed writers. This one is not, though. NT

[MattBaggins]

8. You guys just do not get it

The perception is out there that Obama got piled on and unfairly attacked. Clinton will be seen as a dirty player and lose over this. When Obama gets attacked her negatives go up. Only the most rabid Clinton followers think last night was any kind of win for her.

[Tellurian]

9. If only there was a smidgen of Truth in your assessment..

Hillary won the debate last night hands down. The moderators peeled away layers of Obama's hidden agenda to determine his level of Patriotism, which if you read the OP didn't go unnoticed by the Republicans last night. That issue, which Obama dismissed as irrelevant to him, will be unmercifully hammered on by Republicans if he is the Dem nominee. He failed last night to provide the right answers putting any doubts onlookers had to rest. You can't say he wasn't given the opportunity to disavow Wright.

[TankLV]

35. no- the "perception out there" is that obama can't handle prime time...

he had NO satisfactory answers, and worse, he continues to actually try to DEFEND that ASSHOLE preacher, just like his campaign staffers here on DU...

HE lost it IN FRONT OF ALL AMERICA - for ALL to see...

it was a GOOD nite...

[Tellurian]

71. He's defending the preacher..

because there are 10 more just like him standing behind him.

[Hawkeye-X]

10. When Hillary concedes next Wednesday morning,

will you be supporting Obama?

Yes/No?

Or just refuse to answer, like usual, whining some more?

New York Daily News? That's a Murdoch/Faux paper, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. It's more useful as a fishwrap than a paper.

(I'll be in New York tomorrow, and my FIL prefers the Post)

Hawkeye-X

[Tellurian]

14. Why would she concede, when Obama's Kamikaze performance last night sealed his fate?

Now Hawkeye, you're going to get yourself all upset and start spluttering nonsense...chill out and lets see what tomorrow brings.

Go with the flow...it's not over till it's over! :hi:

[Hawkeye-X]

23. What Kamikaze performance?

I certainly was not watching the same debate as you are. The moderators and Hillary were hitting and attacking on Obama with stupid non-issue questions, and Obama held on his own beautifully - like a president.

Hillary came across to me as VERY arrogant on last night's debate and that'll turn off a lot of Pennsylvanians.

Hawkeye-X

[Tellurian]

25. Says you and BO supporters..

The rest of the World...not so much!

[RiverStone]

28. Just how do you see Hillary getting the nomination?

And not ripping the party apart for going against the will of the peoples' popular vote and the majority opinion of the the pledged delegates?

Folks won't simply say "OK" if the SuperD's hand her the nomination.

In fact, IMO - they will give it to Obama as early as mid-May, but no later then the week after the last primary in June.

[Tellurian]

31. It seems you haven't factored in the damage your candidate did to himself last night..

If you had read the OP rather than just the headline... you wouldn't have posed that question to me.

[Hawkeye-X]

33. Your OP is nothing but a hit piece

so I won't believe a damn word you said.

Hawkeye-X

[Tellurian]

43. What it Hits is Home..like an arrow to a bullseye!

[RiverStone]

77. Your right, because I don't think Obama hurt himself

The headlines today are not regarding Obama taking a hit, but the dumb-ass idiots the mods of ABC News are by referring to vetted, tired, and irrelevant issues last night. Those same issues that hardly anybody gives a shit about.

Asked and answered by Obama (and even Clinton on Bosnia sniper fire).

Yea, we heard those answers already. Lots.

My question stands.

[Hawkeye-X]

32. Uh, the rest of the world disagrees with you.

And we don't live in HillaryWorld like you do - we live in the real world.

[TankLV]

37. wrong - the REAL world disagrees with you...

only his campaign staff doesn't see it...

[TankLV]

36. you nailed it PERFECTLY...

only the obamababies refuse to see what the rest of the WORLD saw last night, and we have seen for the past year or more...

[Tellurian]

45. Obama's performance was chilling to say the least...

He not ready for Prime Time by a long shot. If he had assessed how damaged his situation is, he could have had a shot in 2016.

I'm curious about what Kerry and Kennedy are thinking.....

[SeaLyons]

54. I'm curious too....

Those two idiots. Jumping out and endorsing when their state supported Hillary.

[Tellurian]

57. And poor Caroline attached her stamp of approval to this viper...

[SeaLyons]

79. Yes, I'm sure she is wishing she had

not gotten involved.

[RiverStone]

76. Guess you can say the same about my two Senators

Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray both endorsed Hillary....

In a state that went for Obama 68-32%.

I won't call em idiots tho, cause a little bird told me they are going to switch their vote to reflect the obvious will of their electorate after the last primary.

And yes, that should go for any SuperD - incl Kennedy.

[SeaLyons]

12. K&R

Great post. Nailed it.

[Hawkeye-X]

15. As usual, you ignore the facts that it's a Murdoch paper only worthy of a fishwrap?

[NYCGirl]

20. No, the Daily News is not Murdoch. That's the NY Post. NT

[Hawkeye-X]

24. Thanks for the correction. Haven't been in NY since Jan

and I'm heading over there tonight/tomorrow morning - Damn red-eye flights (Wife likes this kind of flight - I don't)

[cali]

21. it's not a Murdoch paper. that's the post.

[frogcycle]

16. any American to whom not wearing a flag lapel pin

is not a manufactured issue is a blithering idiot.

of, course, there are a LOT of blithering idiots, but appeasing them all is pointless. They'll find something else.

[JoFerret]

66. What, exactly, is your point?

.

[frogcycle]

73. that this thread is a mass jerkoff session

[countingbluecars]

18. I am listening to him

now speaking in NC. He is stronger than ever.

[goletian]

26. abc's debate was loaded with fox noise questions

no substance whatsoever, questioning patriotism? lol!

[Tellurian]

42. Last nights debate was the first incidence of seeing Obama functioning under pressure

if anything, he created more questions, leaving him worse off than before the debate.

[goletian]

49. discussing non issues isnt pressure, its a waste of time

the only questions he created are on the integrity of the media. specifically, abc news. hillary lost, she isnt gonna be president, its over for her. either you support obama or youre a repub. take your pick.

[Tellurian]

56. Since when is the question of Obama's Patriotism not an issue up for discussion..?

[goletian]

58. are you serious? you question his patriotism? lol

what are you doing at DU? the witch hunts go here:

http://www.freerepublic.com

[Tellurian]

62. Isn't that were you peddle your filth..

[goletian]

74. youre the only filth here, lol. - nt

[dpbrown]

27. Got that right

Not exactly grace under pressure. For that, you'll have to look to Senator Clinton.

[undeterred]

29. Sour grapes must taste awful. Why don't you spit?

[TankLV]

38. that's exactly the question we ask the ob cult...

[undeterred]

39. He's the nominee.

:bounce: Accept it.

[TankLV]

46. the rest of the world must have missed it - when and where excactly...

[JoFerret]

53. I hope not yet at least

He needs some serious seasoning before he is ready for the GOP.

Hillary keeps doing him a favor. He is usually a very quick learner. Yesterday he was not on top of things. But he will bounce back no doubt. he is a great candidate.

Meanwhile big round to Hillary.

[Downtown Hound]

40. Is this like one of those if you repeat it enough maybe it will

be true things? Keep dreaming, and go ahead and keep trying. Obama is going to be the nominee, and he's going to win the general election. Accept it whenever you want, but eventually you're going to have to.

[GoldieAZ49]

44. yeppers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtm66Z3lebc

[Dr Fate]

47. Any "honeymoon" was over after McCain/Hillary drummed up the Rev. Wright story.

And yet he still manages to weather the attacks from McCain, Hillary and their allies.

[haymakeragain]

48. Memo to tellurian, vast majority thinks Hillarious

is like fingernails down a chalkboard.

Obama supporters are going to fight just as hard as you Hillarians, so quit thinking your negative shit is going to work.

Sorry, Hillarious is just not likable, much less electable. She and McCain are the same, just currently pretending otherwise to get elected, when it's all said and done, their presidencies would be nearly identical. Identically same old shit. Sorry, we want something new.

When is she going to cry again, on cue?

[walkingdude]

51. Obama is arrogant

I suspect that Obama will win the nomination, but I am much less sure that he will win the general election. If he wins the nomination, I cannot vote for him. I will vote for the green party or socialist nominee. The reason I cannot vote for Obama is that in my opinion he is arrogant and his "bitter statements proof it. Another reason I cannot vote for him is because he relies on cliches and never discusses specifics. He reminds me of a used car salesman. I am so sick of this forum, which leaps on anyone who questions the "messiah" and launches vicious personal attacks aginst anyone who disagrees or supports Hillary.

The problem as I see it is if Obama is elected he will have to perform and I do not think he is capable of the task ahead, either ethically or through practical experience. Those who scream we do not want another Clinton, deny the eight years of peace and prosperity we enjoyed under Bill Clinton.

[haymakeragain]

52. Bull. His "bitter" statement proves nothing, so stop saying it. You sound

like Rush or Hannity or O'Really. Don't vote for him. Hell, vote for McCain for all I care.

Did you ever consider that maybe Obama supporters might consider you calling him "messiah" an insult? We just like him better than Clinton. We might think he has a better chance. We might think electing him would be a welcome chance for our nation to move in a different direction. One that Hillarious is definitely not able to take us.

Sorry, we like him better. Vote for Nader if you want, it's ok. Vote for who you want.

[TankLV]

55. No - they sound tike the REST OF THE COUNTRY...

sorry, we can't all be obama campaign staffers sitting at the computer all day posting our enduring love and devotion to our "saviour"...

get out in the real world - I know it's hard to leave a cult...

[Tellurian]

69. There are No supporters who whine better and louder than Obamas`..

[Egnever]

50. Todays comedy relief is brought to by our friends at Tellurian

thanks for the belly laugh.

[GoesTo11]

59. Whuh? "Obama is clearly guilty of horrible judgment, and maybe worse."

Even if you think he should have left his church over disagreement with his pastor, this is a pretty subjective issue. If you have ever had friends who did offensive things, you realize that you don't always completely denounce the person (as opposed to their actions). If you go around denouncing your friends when it's not absolutely necessary, you end up with a lonely life. I can see how you might disagree with his judgment, but that doesn't mean it's obviously bad judgment.

If Obama had said the things Wright said, that would be really bad judgment.

If he had been seeing $3000/hour prostitute, that would have been really really bad judgment.

If had launched an unnecessary and costly war, that would have been horrible judgment.

But the phrase in my subject heading is just nonsense.

[Tellurian]

63. No, obama couldn't get enough...so he listened to Hate America for 20 yrs..

[GoesTo11]

65. Touche

Excellent response to my point.

[MoonRiver]

64. GIVE HIM HELL HILL!!

:kick: OH, YEAH, SHE CAN! :kick:

[PresidentObama]

67. More filth from a Hillaryis44 poster!

[Tellurian]

68. yeah, thanks for inflicting and unvetted candidate on us...

who will lose the GE if he's the nominee!

[PresidentObama]

72. What'd you think about Hillary admitting to lying last night?

About Bosnia...

America loves liars! Oh wait, no they don't.

[RBInMaine]

70. That you would actually embrace this kind of CRAP is SICKENING, especially after the torrents of

pro-corporate, hypocritcal, anti-worker crap in Hillary's closet. Obama was a poised gentleman last evening. Hillary was a nasty, DESPERATE, attack dog. She is shameful LIAR who takes her cues straight out of the Karl Rove playbook. You are sad person.

[Tellurian]

78. Put Obama in front of his crowd, he's a tough talking whiner

standing up for himself in a debate...he folds like a cheap lawn chair!

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoFerret]

80. Read Krugman on the wrong headed "guns and god" theory.

And on why Obama needs to stop deceiving on the Clinton economy. (Maybe he only did it once)

<<In fact, the Clinton years were very good for working Americans in the Midwest, where real median household income soared before crashing after 2000. (You can see the numbers at my blog, krugman.blogs.nytimes.com.)

We can argue about how much credit Bill Clinton deserves for that boom. But if I were a Democratic Party elder, I’d urge Mr. Obama to stop blurring the distinction between Clinton-era prosperity and Bush-era economic distress.

Next, the sociology: “And it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them.”

The crucial word here isn’t “bitter,” it’s “cling.” Does economic hardship drive people to seek solace in firearms, God and xenophobia?

It’s true that people in poor states are more likely to attend church regularly than residents of rich states. This might seem to indicate that faith is indeed a response to economic adversity.

But this result largely reflects the fact that southern states are both church-going and poor; some poor states outside the South, like Maine and Montana, are actually less religious than Connecticut. Furthermore, within poor states, people with low incomes are actually less likely to attend church than those with high incomes. (The correlation runs the opposite way in rich states.)

Over all, none of this suggests that people turn to God out of economic frustration.

Finally, Mr. Obama, in later clarifying remarks, declared that the people he’s talking about “don’t vote on economic issues,” and are motivated instead by things like guns and gay marriage.

That’s a political theory made famous by Thomas Frank’s “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” According to this theory, “values” issues lead working-class Americans to act against their own interests by voting Republican. Mr. Obama seemed to suggest that’s also why they support Hillary Clinton.

I was impressed by Mr. Frank’s book when it came out. But my Princeton colleague Larry Bartels, who had an Op-Ed in The Times on Thursday, convinced me that Mr. Frank was mostly wrong.>>

more at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/opinion/18krugman.html?ref=opinion

And one more thing: let’s hope that once Mr. Obama is no longer running against someone named Clinton, he’ll stop denigrating the very good economic record of the only Democratic administration most Americans remember.