Hillary at the bar, drinking

[Voice for Peace]

From a close friend who has spent much of his life fighting an alcohol addiction:
............
Hi
I've been thinking about the recent to-do over Barack Obama's comment regarding people who are bitter and who cling to guns and religion, and have concluded the reason so many people got upset was because of the truth of what he was saying.

I live in red-state gun + beer + religion territory and my own obervations of Americans, at least here in the "heartland", agrees with Barack's comment pretty well. People get angry when they hear unwelcome truths.

But this letter is called, or should be: "It only takes one reason why Hillary Clinton should not be president".

What is that reason? ...the endlessly replayed scene of Hill with 'da boys' in the local saloon, showing she was man enough to drop a shot down her throat and sip a beer.

What kind of message does that send? That we would have a president who knows how to get drunk? That we would have a president who knows who to drink responsibly? What?

Why not shoot some meth, or smoke a crack pipe, Hillary? Alcohol is a far bigger social and health problem than crack and meth combined. Some 60 to 90 percent of incarcerated Americans committed their crimes while under the influence of alcohol.

But Hillary- because of an ego-driven, thoughtless stupidity combined with a photo-op, showed herself fully capable of consuming one of the most dangerous drugs known to man, ethyl alcohol.

And to make it a shot and a beer just makes it worse.

Tossing down a shot followed by a beer is a well-known, allmost ancient, technique among heavy drinkers -and desperate alcoholics- to get drunk as quickly as possible.

The effervescence of the beer somehow allows the shot to be metabolized even more rapidly, or something like that. Anyway, drunks tell me this: it works.

The fact that Hillary would drink alcohol in a bar, in order to get votes, while ignoring the implications of a presidential candidate drinking in a bar to succeed, pisses me off majorly, because I- and millions and millions of other people- have known the horrors of drinking either in ourselves or our loved ones.

Yet there is a person who aspires to be president, setting an example for Americans of why she is so qualified- because she can drink! Hallelujah!

... what I mean to say is, no presidential candidate should be endorsing alcohol drinking in any form as part of a run for nomination or office. That is just plan evil. It's not some cute little Hillary-has-a -shot joke. It offers a terrible example.

The sad thing is that some people will vote for her because she has "shown" that she can "drink like a man". Well, a president who can drink like a man is not what this country needs. We need a sober president.

I'm not calling Hillary a drunk- she shows zero signs of that- but it seems to be the political equivalent of George Brett doing an ad showing how to take steroids for better performance. (He's retired, former Royals baseball star, great guy.) If any athlete did a commercial or was shown endorsing or using any sports-enhancing drug, there would be a huge rumble of anger throughout the land.

But a political wannabe drinks in public for the express purpose of- not getting drunk like normal drinkers, but to show off how cool she is.

Morally, this is as reprehensible as a star athlete endorsing steroids. Great example you set for the children of America, Hillary.

End of rant, thank you very much.

[msongs]

1. another fine piece of slime - you are doing exactly what you deny doing. nt

[Voice for Peace]

5. Um, I don't know you so I don't know what you're referring to. Please be more specific.

[crankychatter]

2. just cuz it's you k/r

:-)

I ain't got no outrage... if I could handle a boiler maker, I'd have one in about five minutes.... 150 people in this dead town... there are competing tombstone manufacturers kitty corner at the main intersection of town, where there used to be Auto Dealers...

but, by god, we got a saloon.

Barack didn't mention the booze/crime/drugs refuge...

perhaps he should've

[Voice for Peace]

22. Those refuges aren't political wedge issues... that's why he mentioned those other things.

If some of the Democrats were trying to bring back prohibition, it might have been mentioned.

[crankychatter]

3. oops ((((big hug n a kick)))) for you n your friend

:-)

[Olney Blue]

4. You have extremely high standards. Maybe too high?

[Voice for Peace]

9. I don't know.. more people should chime in who have felt affected by alcohol in their own lives.

I've seen enough to know I don't need candidates inspiring me to take a drink. I wasn't crazy about seeing Obama in the pub either.

It's not that I have anything against people who drink, I don't. I like to drink, once in a while. "A bit of excess keeps moderation from becoming a dulling habit."

But I also know what it's like for people who are holding on one day at a time. It's hell, and it's hard, and it's too easy to give in. So I agree with the writer (it wasn't me) that it was a crappy pr stunt.

[Olney Blue]

11. As someone with a beloved sister struggling with alcoholism, I agree

that the image was not great. And this is probably why Michelle urged Barack to stop smoking. However, I don't think we can expect our politicians to be vice-free- few of us are!

[Jed Dilligan]

6. A good whiskey followed by a fine pilsener =

great taste combination. Not necessarily the mark of a drunk. It's like cabernet and dark chocolate.

I wouldn't attack her for what she drank, but rather focus on what a stiff, robotic weirdo she looked like doing it (cf. Dukakis in tank).

[PeaceNikki]

7. Overanalyze much?

[Lucky 13]

8. GOTCHA!!

Great point, Voice. No honest, hardworking American ever goes to the bar after a long, stressful day to have a drink. It's just not a scene you see play out in America and it certainly doesn't represent our "values".

Good one, Voice!

[Voice for Peace]

10. Totally not the point, Lucky.

May you continue to be lucky enough to never understand what he was writing about.

[cbayer]

12. They eat food that is really bad for you too

and there are a lot of people struggling with obesity.

You friend has a right to his opinion but she is a grown woman who is not an alcoholic. They all pander constantly on the stump. If an individual finds that offensive, then that individual should probably not vote for them.

However, to extrapolate it into some kind of moral issue just does not sit well with me at all.

She had a drink. Big deal.

[Voice for Peace]

13. Yeah, and I posted someone's opinion. Big deal.

[Dervill Crow]

41. Big deal. Exactly.

Some people will agree and some will disagree.

[Voice for Peace]

46. thank you.

[quickesst]

14. I'm an alcoholic.....

who hasn't had a drink in about fifteen years, and I think the op, and friend, have spun a fantasy through unbridled imagination.(with a smattering of "holier than thou") What most of the country saw was Hillary Clinton having a drink with middle class working America. What Obama supporters saw, was the She-Devil in an isolated, and dark orphanage full of impressionable children being coerced into drinking through lies and deciet. That's the same type of prism republicans saw Kerry and Gore through. The common denominator is hatred for anything Clinton.
quickesst

[Voice for Peace]

16. ok. Agree it's being seen through an anti-Clinton prism.

At the same time I think the point he makes is valid. I think if there were shots of Obama hanging out in a smoky bar lighting up a cigarette with smokers a lot of people would be objecting strongly. Especially any Clinton supporters who might have been smokers at one time.

Self-righteous, nah. This wasn't self righteousness though I can understand why you might read it that way. But I know the person well, and I also know myself.

[catnhatnh]

23. I'm halfway down with you....

And I'm an Obama supporter and an alcoholic.In 54 years of alcoholism if anything made me want to puke it was this posting.No recovering alcoholic would ever have written that bullshit and no active alcoholic would have cared enough to write it.The op is full of shit and if she thinks this somehow helps my candidate he or she is deluded as well as nasty.

[Voice for Peace]

26. Sorry but you are wrong. I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I also am not sure you're an Obama supporter, though I don't doubt you're an alcoholic, but you're not speaking for all, clearly.

If the OP made you puke, you probably had something in your guts you needed to get rid of.

[catnhatnh]

33. Well, you are the original poster...

whom makes me nauseous.The really sad part is that somehow you picture that this does support Obama.Instead of picking any real reason for discussion that could be argued like the Iraq war, or constitutional protections, or why corporations are allowed to gut the middle class-all of which Obama could win,you go for a cheap shot.Your OP did and your reply to me did.I've been called both an asshole and a drunk before by better than you but never by such a bottom feeder to begin with...a sad night for me.

[Voice for Peace]

37. That's silly, I didn't call you anything.

You attacked me in your first post, essentially calling me a liar. I said you were wrong. I wasn't sure you were an Obama supporter. I didn't doubt you were an alcoholic, as you said about yourself, but that you don't speak for all alcoholics.

And when I puke it's usually because there is something in my gut that shouldn't be there. Why are you attacking me? I am not your enemy.

My friend sent me an email and I thought it was worth posting, and you didn't. It's just that simple, no need for a war.

[catnhatnh]

43. You are a liar. N/T

[Voice for Peace]

44. Why are you doing this?

[catnhatnh]

47. Because you are a liar and an assclown

I support Obama but never by making shit up. Am I wrong? Post the E-mail and info as to your "friend".I admitted to be an alcoholic-which you enjoyed reposting multiple times-if your "friend" is both as committed and open as I am to the truth that should be no problem.Get this again moron-I HATE Hillary-But I am not so stupid as to find this bullshit worthy of posting...I am beginning to believe you are posting a ridiculous attack so you can later point to it to prove there have been ridiculous attacks-

[Voice for Peace]

48. I haven't made anything up. This was an email from a real person.

If you want to pm me and pursue the truth of this I am happy to put you in touch with the person directly, if he agrees, which I think he would.

You're accusing me of lying, but for no good reason that I can see.

So I ask, why? And you are the one who stated that you are an alcoholic, not me.

Besides I don't think there's any shame in being an alcoholic, but I do know there is a great deal of pain.
I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said that alcoholics had some of the finest hearts and minds of anyone he knew. I agree with him.

But here you are attacking viciously and accusing me of lying, when you have absolutely nothing to base that on; and calling me moron when I have done absolutely nothing to you. Why?

So I am baffled by this but I don't want to get into it further. Peace, best wishes.

[gabby garcia]

27. what Obama supporters saw..

what Obama supporters saw was exactly the same as anyone else - hate to burst your bubble but we are not one mindless droning entity. we come from all walks of life, all income levels, all shades of skin, all ages and generations, all genders, all political orientations, all different people but with a common goal. what brings us together is not hatred for anything clinton - but our interest in striving for a change for a better world for ourselves and our children.

[Voice for Peace]

29. Nicely said gabby, thanks.

Generalizations tend to kill off possibilities.

[nebula]

15. The message Hillary wants to send

the answer to all your problems is to drink heavily.


'Losing your home? Losing your job? Lost your son or daughter in Iraq?
Can't afford the skyrocketing prices of gas or food?

Well then, alcohol is the answer to all your problems!

(because you know I ain't gonna do jackshit for you.)'

[Voice for Peace]

17. LOL.. I wouldn't go that far.

But I do think she ought to be able to get those people's votes without the bar scenes.

[bigtree]

18. we're not responsible for your *friend's drinking problem

[Voice for Peace]

20. That's right, you're not, and I don't have a drinking problem. Some people do.

And in case you didn't read what I wrote above, I said I wasn't personally crazy about seeing Obama in a bar either. I don't think either of them need to do it, I don't think it adds anything. For some people it's even painful. In case you give a shit.

[bigtree]

24. I thought they were both cool

They both looked like folks I know, unwinding and having a fun moment in their busy lives.

Get a grip.

[Voice for Peace]

25. OK. got a grip, thanks

[crispini]

19. I've had a shot and a beer.

Last I checked, Prohibition wasn't in effect in this country anymore.

I think Beergate's pretty stupid, myself. :eyes:

[Voice for Peace]

21. You're right, it's perfectly legal. And much of it stupid, and some of it deadly.

[BootinUp]

28. Can all the people that have a problem with Hillary

drinking alcohol go start their own country somewhere? Then they can feel free to have prohibition of alcohol in their little constitution. It would be paradise for all of us.

[Voice for Peace]

32. It would be great if there were a country like that, for people who have a hard time with any kind

of addiction. Where there wasn't plentiful alcohol everywhere, and there was only really healthy, lean food, for people who have eating problems; and no tobacco, and no drugs, and no addictive temptations at every turn for people who struggle with any kind of addiction that makes them feel constantly like they're rolling a boulder up a mountain, and falling down, and being judged left and right for being weak by all the arrogant ones who have such superior self-restraint. But there's no such land.

It would be nice if there were a country where all the people who like to insult each other, and wound each other, and don't give a real shit about other people except in lip service, and don't feel like examining their own selves but love to judge others; and the ones who like to make war, and kill other people who aren't like them, a country where they could all go with all of their weapons and poisons and cruelties and have a blast with each other. But there's no such land.

I don't have a problem with Hillary drinking. I don't want her as president, but it has nothing to do with alcohol.

[OzarkDem]

30. Is this like an "Obama's a pimp" thread?

Just wonderin'....

[barb162]

34. I'm not wondering. It is an "Obama is a pimp" thread.

[Cha]

31. You're not the only who feels this way..

"As a father of daughters, I've got a big problem today with Hillary Clinton.

Let's be clear: I've got no problem with a President who occasionally chases down a slice of pizza with a cold brew or a shot of whiskey -- or both. Like most Oregonians, I'm particularly fond of our state's great microbrews and small wineries; I'm no prude about liquor (or much of anything else). And, of course, our current teetotaler President has been a disaster. (I'm put in mind of Abe Lincoln during the Civil War: when an adviser complained that the North's most successful general was drinking too much, Abe ordered a barrel of that general's favorite whiskey sent to each of his other generals.)

So if Clinton likes an (imported) Crown Royal, neat, back on the campaign plane at the end of the day, or -- without fanfare -- tips back a cool one with supporters at a pizza joint, I'm good. But that's not what she did Saturday night at Bronko's Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Indiana. No: she bumped back a boilermaker to make a point about Barack Obama being "out of touch" with blue-collar voters, playing off his comment about some middle Americans being "bitter" at being ignored by Washington insiders.

Hillary Clinton is not normally a brew-and-a-bump kind of gal; she's just not. But she is a political animal, through and through -- and drinking boilermakers as a strategy for reaching Pennsylvania's working-class voters was even discussed jokingly in a segment of MSNBC's Hardball earlier this month, which Clinton's campaign staff wouldn't have missed. No: Clinton intentionally chose to do a particularly unhealthy kind of drinking -- chugging beer and whiskey at once, a combo designed to make you drunker, faster -- to increase her popularity with people she really has nothing in common with so that they'll vote for her.

Politics is politics, but it's not OK for Hillary Clinton or anyone else in public life to flaunt heavy public drinking in order to be more popular.

I'm the father of two beautiful, brilliant, creative, loving, sometimes gloriously self-confident, sometimes tragically insecure daughters, ages 12 and 14. Both are deeply engaged and opinionated about politics .... If one of my daughters, trying to win Student Body President, showed up at a keg party and got drunk in order to score points with the "populars" (ask your kid if you don't know who they are), I'd be incredibly disappointed -- and angry, and concerned. Should I feel any differently when Hillary Clinton does it?

Fortunately, my daughters already know that what Clinton did is wrong. At a supposedly irresponsible age, they know it's not cool to misuse alcohol to "fit in." Even for adults, even to win a big election, it's just. not. cool.

But Hillary Clinton -- the candidate who trumpets her experience and worldliness as predictors of her supposed good judgment -- doesn't seem to have figured that out. She's drinking in public to look cool and win votes. For the first woman with a serious shot at the White House to trumpet an unhealthy kind of drinking in order to gain publicity points, is to display either an utter tone-deafness to her role as a model for America's girls (and even adults), or a culpable willingness to ignore her moral compass in order to win. She's either inexcusably foolish or inexcusably calculating; take your pick.

Either way, she deserves to be grounded by the responsible adults in the Democratic Party, not elected Student Body President."
http://bp1.blogger.com/_7AQsWR-I_X0/SAO2gu1abTI/AAAAAAAAAJo/eVP3MXm8Vrc/s400/Clinton+drinking.jpg

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5518581

[Voice for Peace]

35. Thanks for reposting that, I thought it was very good, I too have daughters

[Cha]

36. I should have thought of that perspective in

the first place but it took this article to make me realize it. And, the more I think about it the more it resonates.

It was stupid thing to do in a campaign full of them.

[goclark]

52. Thank you for saying that ~ as an educator I feel exactly

like you do.

[Voice for Peace]

38. Wow, this OP really brought out the love in people.

[Dervill Crow]

39. Oh, good grief. Alcohol is neither illegal nor immoral.

With all the negative things that could be said about Hillary Clinton, this is scraping the bottom of the barrel. I can state with 100% certainty that seeing a picture of Hillary Clinton with a beer is not going to influence my teenager to go out and get drunk.

I've seen the horrors of drinking, too, up close and personal, and I'll put my ACOA issues up against anyone else's. However, I don't think this drinking debacle is any more knicker-knot-worthy than the bowling brouhaha.

[Voice for Peace]

40. Agree except it's a bit like what Jon Stewart said about a president that caves to peer pressure.

and the OP was just one person's gut-felt opinion and expression. Some relate to it, some don't.

[Dervill Crow]

42. Exactly why I likened it to the bowling brouhaha.

Just plain silliness. I can't imagine at this stage of the game it's going to win or lose her any votes.

[ShortnFiery]

45. Well put!

I fully concur with your thoughtful friend's commentary. Having worked, at one point, as an government addiction counselor for an Infantry Battalion, I have seen how alcohol has ruined young lives. It's not just simply Alcohol Addition but also a culture that endorses "binge drinking."

You're right. Alcohol doesn't MAKE you fit in anymore than "a smoke" makes you look glamorous.

If you find yourself constantly seeking to alter your consciousness (by whatever chemical means), then there's truly some underlying emotional conflict that you need to resolve. If you choose to ignore that and continue "to abuse" then consider that you're committing suicide on "the installment plan."

Our teenagers are vulnerable enough without those who should be "role models" demonstrating unhealthy behaviors, not unlike crazed fraternity boys during pledge week.

Just when I could not be more disillusioned by HRC's behaviors, she surprises me again. :thumbsdown:

[Voice for Peace]

49. thanks, appreciate your perspective (and it's nice to get responses that aren't

sarcastic or downright nasty.)

[Beacool]

50. I saw nothing wrong in her having a shot & a beer at a bar. Ditto for Obama.

They are both adults and, as long as they drink in moderation, what's the problem? I've lived in countries where wine is normally served with meals and they have less problems with alcoholism than we do.

As for Hillary drinking only to pander, you're wrong. As her staffers or the reporters that travel with her can attest, Hillary will usually have either a glass of red wine or a Blue Moon late at night and chat with them over the day's events.

[TwilightGardener]

51. She's just an embarrassing panderer. Nothing more, nothing less.