I am sick and tire of the "swiftboating" of Obama

[KKKarl is an idiot]

This makes me really mad. I am not taking it anymore. These "shock jocks" are swiftboating" Obama. All we are doing is standing by and trying to make up our minds on whether they are right or not. Let me give a dose of reality. They are never right. They will spew their hatred for anyone who does not come in line with there "corporations rule the world" mentality. I do not care who the democractic party nominee is, I just want a democratic president. Yes I do prefer Obama but at this point it scares me that they have an opponent who seems to be cookie cut from the same dough as Bush.

Remind your friends and family who maybe independants or republicans what Geroge Bush has done to this country.

[ananda]

1. But are you..

.. surprised??????????????

[KKKarl is an idiot]

3. I am not surprised

When Hilary was way ahead in the polls. These 'shock jocks" spent all their time "swiftboating" her. In fact Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh actually found nothing wrong with Obama. Then he got ahead and they turned tail on him.

[npincus]

2. the thought of HRC toppling Obama makes them cream in their pants

they think she's easier to run against.

[Deep13]

6. We often make that same mistake, ...

... like in 1984 and 2000. It's a kind of group think and the R.s are not immune from it.

[Deep13]

4. Get used to it. They haven't even started yet.

I don't know that McC is a duplicate of Bush. While having typical idiot R. tendencies, he does not seem to be the same kind of ideologue as Bush. McC is not a religious extremist and has repeatedly cooperated with moderates on a variety of issues including campaign finance reform. In my mind the two big strikes against McC are is commitment to endless war and the related wholesale abandonment of any sense economic responsibility. In those ways he is certainly like Bush.

[Occam Bandage]

7. Wow, a Hillary supporter defending McCain? That is totally, er...

...unsurprising.

He's such a maverick, isn't he?

[Deep13]

22. That's a misrepresentation.

The sad thing is you probably are not aware of that. Giving a reasonable assessment of the opponent is not a defense. Just like HC's effort to make herself seem as qualified as McCain was not an endorsement of him.

It is this kind of group-think that makes a lot of Obama supporters blind to reality. Anyone who can inspire that kind of knee-jerk, group-think loyalty is not someone I want in authority over me.

[Occam Bandage]

32. Unfortunately, that is hardly a reasonable assessment of McCain. It is a

reasonable assessment of his public image, but unless the conversation has silently shifted, we are not discussing his political standing; we are discussing his likely governance. And he has indicated repeatedly and distinctly that there will be no noteworthy policy shifts from Bush's White House to his own. The new plans he has suggested for the new problems of 2008 are exceptional only to the degree to which they resemble Bush's plans for the problems he faced--if it can't be solved by tax cuts and deregulation, it can be solved with deploying soldiers.

The fact that he played nice in the Senate is irrelevant. The fact that he likes to talk about what a maverick he is is irrelevant. The fact that he does not appear to be a religious whackjob is irrelevant. Politics is rarely driven by the personal character of politicians; it is driven by policy, and that policy is more often than not determined by voting blocs. McCain has undergone a substantial policy shift over the last few years, as he has reversed his tone (and often his policies) on every major issue. In order to preserve the Republican coalition of Reagan, Bush, and Bush, he must campaign and govern as Reagan, Bush, and Bush did.

Thinking that he will govern as his media image suggests he will is as misguided as thinking that of the "moderate," "uniter," "compassionate conservative" Bush in 2000.

But, as I said, I expect misguided politics from people with certain images in their avatars and signatures.

[Diamonique]

14. Don't be fooled by the MSM hype.

McCain might not be a neocon, but he's as far right as the rest of the idiotsm. He talks the talk; but when it comes to voting, he gets in step with the Rethugs. This man is NOT a moderate.

[Deep13]

23. I never am. It's the rest of the country I'm worried about. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. And the fact that he is 109 years old, so his chosen VP will actually

be running the country.

[Deep13]

27. That's what I really find disturbing.

He's going to pick some Fundy wack-job for VP and that guy will become president is McC dies of skin cancer or something.

[Occam Bandage]

34. He can't afford to pick a fundie whack-job for VP.

Polling shows the religious right is, as ought be expected from God's own lambs, forgetting everything they thought and believed six months ago and rallying to their new shepherd. On the other hand, McCain's biggest stumbling block with the general electorate is his age. He'll need to pick someone young, dynamic, and acceptable to the general populace as a successor. While he might be religious, I don't think that's the prerequisite we thought it would be in January.

[BlooInBloo]

5. You would expect more from Clinton supporters, but you get used to it, and move on.

[Deep13]

8. The OP did not mention Clinton supporters. nt

[BlooInBloo]

11. Your eye for the obvious is keen,

[Deep13]

26. Yeah, it is obvious. So what was the point of your post?

:shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

29. Dull your wits are.

[BigDDem]

9. Waaaaaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaa

poor poor Barry, no softballs at the debate

[Occam Bandage]

12. No hardballs, either.

The umpire throwing batteries at his head ain't baseball.

[BigDDem]

15. and out comes the victim card

If ya can't run with the big dogs, stay under the porch.

[Occam Bandage]

16. Last night's debate was a failure of journalism. Funny to see Clinton supporters

cheering the same right-wing politics they spent the last, oh, 16 years whining about.

[BigDDem]

18. There was a debate last night?

Missed that one.

[Occam Bandage]

20. Night before. W/e.

[SoCalDem]

35. just slimeballs & crusty boogers picked from the undersides of news desks..

:)

[IndianaJones]

10. sense when does Goodyear control the democrat party? nt.

[Romulox]

13. In what sense is Barack Obama "anti-corporate"?

What about Barack Obama challenges corporate power in America? Got a link???? :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

17. Proposing a capital-gains tax hike, for one.

[Romulox]

19. Umm, that is positive, but incremental at best. I want info on how he will change trade deals

tax imports, invest in infrastructure and jobs here in the US, end tax breaks for off-shoring, oppose increasing "guest-worker" visas, etc. etc.

But he isn't going to do any of that, is he? :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

25. He's actually already proposed most of that.

"The proposal, which came two weeks before the critical Ohio primary and just before on Tuesday’s nominating contest in Wisconsin, is the most radical any presidential candidate has put forward so far to mitigate the perceived effects of globalisation on US manufacturing...Mr Obama’s plan would lower the corporate tax rate for companies that met criteria including maintaining their headquarters in the US, maintaining or increasing their US workforce relative to their overseas workforce, holding a neutral position in union drives among their employees and providing decent healthcare.

The lowered rate would be paid for by the abolition of tax breaks that encourage companies to shift jobs overseas."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3fd059b8-de7b-11dc-9de3-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F3fd059b8-de7b-11dc-9de3-0000779fd2ac.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vdare.com%2Froberts%2F080223_obama.htm&nclick_check=1



"And we need to invest in green technology. We can’t keep sending billions of dollars to foreign nations because of our addiction to oil. We should be investing in American companies that invest in American-manufactured solar panels and windmills, and in clean coal technology. That’s why I’ve proposed investing $150 billion over the next ten years in the green energy sector. This will create up to five million new American jobs – and those are jobs that pay well and can’t be outsourced. That’s a promise that we are making not just to this generation of Americans, but to the next generation of Americans. And that’s why this will be a priority in my administration."

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBpbT


Obama is in favor of guest-worker plans for "certain sectors that have a genuine need for migrant workers," but he does want to place limits to prevent it from becoming "an international temp agency."

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/28/162157/120

[Romulox]

30. Again, that is nibbling around the edges. Obama supports "free trade", increasing H1Bs, etc.

A tax break for placing yet another corporate headquarters in Deleware won't exactly put food on the average worker in Michigan's table, for instance.

[Occam Bandage]

33. And the goalposts are moved once again. You ask if Obama will

propose certain policies. I provide evidence to say, "yes, he will." You then claim those policies--the policies that you yourself demanded of him--are unimportant "nibbling around the edges," and provide a new batch of metrics.

Obama supports "free trade" is a statement that is as broad and useless as "Obama supports taxation" or "Obama supports spending." No candidate is in favor of wholly unrestricted trade (save Ron Paul, perhaps), and no candidate is in favor of abolishing international trade.

H-1B visas are far, far more removed from the average worker in Michigan than offshoring/foreign production are. In fact, they are more likely to help the average factory worker than harm him, by increasing the talent pool of the engineers, accountants, lawyers, and businessmen available to promote the competitive edge of his employer. However, that's moving into a completely different argument.

[Romulox]

36. Umm, no. I oppose "free trade". Tax breaks for corporate hqs doesn't address that issue whatsoever

"Obama supports "free trade" is a statement that is as broad and useless as "Obama supports taxation" or "Obama supports spending." No candidate is in favor of wholly unrestricted trade (save Ron Paul, perhaps), and no candidate is in favor of abolishing international trade."

Cut the crap, Mr. Occam. Senator Obama supports the "free trade" status quo built up around NAFTA, WTO, and MFN ("normal" trade status) for China.

[Occam Bandage]

37. And nowhere did I claim that you didn't oppose lessened restrictions on trade. However, you're

clearly not reading past the first line of the post providing the answers for which you asked. The "tax breaks for corporate HQs" you talk about are only one small part of the most comprehensive protectionist package that has yet been proposed. You asked if he would cut the tax benefits for outsourcing companies. He would, and he would instead give them to companies that not only maintain their corporate headquarters in America, but which also do not ship jobs overseas (which was indeed in the original excerpt I posted; your failure to address that suggests either illiteracy or dishonesty), which do not restrict unionization, and which provide health care for their workers.

You're saying "Obama supports 'free trade.'" And I repeat: that is a meaningless statement, because "free trade" is a very, very broad term. Obama supports increasing restrictions on trade and outsourcing. He is not, however, in favor of scrapping all of our trade agreements entirely. However, that would be an absolutely terrible idea, which may partially explain why absolutely no candidate is in favor of such drastic an action, despite the large number of American protectionists.

You say, "cut the crap," but the phrase "Senator Obama supports 'free trade'" is pure political crap: it is meaningless drivel designed to appeal to those who do not remotely understand the issues they profess to care most about.

[rodeodance]

21. stop crying like babies.

[cali]

28. bwahahaha. says one of the loudest whiners on GDP

[wowimthere]

31. Obama is doing a fantastic job even though the swiftboating is occurring. From where I'm standing.....

swiftboaters are a lot of noise in the background. There's no substance there and with the emergence of truth squads on the internet, it is harder for them to gain much traction. Clean the bathroom, you get rid of the scum.