Enough.

[Coexist]

I've been looking for a way to convey my disgust at this final betrayal, the spitting on MoveOn.org and "activist Democrats".

A (newly former) Clinton supporter says it best and I thought I would share it with you:

HRC Supporter says--Enough is enough!

The last straw--the one that broke the camel's back--was HRC's comments castigating Democratic activists.

Mrs. Clinton--I am one of those activists. I stood by your husband even at the height of his impeachment. I stood by when the GOP took over Congress during his first mid-term election.

And I stood by you even though the writing has been on the wall the past few months that BO was riding a tidal wave and this just was not in the cards for you.

I stood by you when President Clinton engaged in tactics which appeared to inject race into this campaign. I argued with my friends and others that this was simply magnified by the media and by a skilled BO campaign.

But now you have attacked my brothers and sisters--men and women who also stood by President Clinton. Men and women that made it possible for him to win two terms. Men and women who came forth with their hearts, their sweat and their pocket books to support him during the darkest days of his political career.

Perhaps this is only fitting.

I for one implore the people of Pennsylvania to end this charade. It is time for the Democratic Party to do everything possible to ensure that we do not face Bush's third term.

[pnorman]

1. 9 recommendations, with NO discussion? That speaks VOLUMES!

n/t

pnorman

[Bonobo]

2. What else is there to say really?

[jjr5]

114. I guess it's true

Some people were saying it from the beginning, and I agreed with them, but I didn't know that it would happen among her own party. Hillary Clinton is being divisive. I mean, we could argue that Barack Obama is the one that is being divisive, but I think Hillary has alienated a lot of his supporters, and people among her party with her unfair tactics and "kitchen sink" strategy. Let's see who's she's offended, shall we: Iowans (saying their primary didn't matter), African-Americans, states that hold caucuses (who knows why she did that one), those who hold a college degree or higher, young enthusiastic voters, and Barack's supporters (for essentially calling them crazy fanatics). MoveOn.org was the last straw, she basically pushed one of the strongholds of the modern democratic party under the bus and away from who she is really courting - "white, working-class men? . . ."

[Blue Gardener]

122. Iowa has a caucus

Not a primary, which is why she isn't too fond of Iowa anymore.

[Major Hogwash]

73. We're waiting for her to fly back to New York to announce the end of her campaign.

Flight controllers have cleared all morning flights for next Wednesday in all common Pennsylvania to New York flight paths in preparation for Hillary to mount her broom, fly back to New York, and make the announcement that everyone knows is coming.

Several flying monkey squadrons are on standby status at nearby airports, jungles, state and city zoos to provide an escort for Hillary to prevent her from making a corkscrew landing in New York and screw herself right into the ground in Central Park.

[Citizen_Penn]

132. it's been discussed to death

a whole lot of Democrats are over her and her husband.

MOVING ON

How many ways do you need to hear it before it's sinking in?

She knows we hate her.

Sounds like she hates us back.

Yeah, we'll vote for her.

Right after that ice skating party in hell.


Listen carefully, SD, I'll stay home in November if you give that witch the nomination.

And, I'll be having a hell of a party with a lot of my activist friends.

No more Bushes, no more Clintons - they're one and the same.

[SoFlaJet]

134. welcome to DU Citizen Penn

but just for the record we're trying to stay away from that kind of talk-the bitch, witch and I won't vote for her or him stuff here...oh yea, this from an Obama supporter

[Citizen_Penn]

135. censorship is not welcome here or anywhere.

I did not request, nor do I appreciate being chastised by you.

[SoFlaJet]

136. I'm not chastising you CP

just trying to help-wouldn't want to see you get tombstoned

[guruoo]

3. HRC feels betrayed by an inept activist leadership that has

been unwittingly carrying out the rightwing's dirty work for them.

edited for clarification

[pathansen]

14. Agreed. She was simply speaking out against fellow Democrats who attacked her FIRST.

Doesn't she have a right to defend herself?
She feels that much of what they are saying about her is simply lies so why shouldn't she object to being attacked by distortions of facts?

[jonestonesusa]

18. Yes, she has a right to say whatever she wants to.

But does it help her campaign? The point of all this is not just offense and defense, it's to win the election so you can move your issues forward and get them implemented as the leader of the party and the country.

You tell me - how does criticizing the most active and engaged segment of your party's voters help her win the campaign?

[guruoo]

21. I don't believe she was thinking of all activists, just the ones that chose

to swiftboat a loyal Democrat.

[roguevalley]

22. that isn't in the tape. listen to the tape. she is complaining about

losing and blaming everyone but herself. its pretty clear. no inferences are needed.

[guruoo]

49. Campaigns are gruling. She's just letting off some steam...

Been there, done that. In spades!

Haven't you ever worked a campaign before?
I've been doing it on and off since 1980.

[stillcool]

79. delete.

[jonestonesusa]

24. Swiftboat is a strong choice of words

because you use that term in reference to both over-the-top attacks and principled opposition. Clinton doesn't make that distinction either, at least not clearly Surely you agree with me that opponents of Clinton on the netroots side includes both of those. IMO, she has reacted poorly to both liberal-leaning Democrats like myself who disagree with her IWR vote and her own negative campaign tactics.

Besides, this presidential race really isn't about loyalty - that's an overly personalized way to look at it that the Clintons have leaned on for quite a while. It's about serving the party's values effectively, including running a winning campaign and successfully building coalitions to support those issues from elective office. Clinton's campaign needs to tell voters convincingly how she has done this in office - recently, not just in Bill Clinton's administration. Since the 90s, electoral math has changed in the era of the "50 state strategy": imagine, it took a change in DNC leadership from the Bill Clinton era just to compete in all 50 states, and already in Montana, Colorado, and Kansas, we see the difference when Democrats compete hard in statewide races in conservative and swing states. I think Obama has the best chance of continuing that momentum, and in my view and in the view of many other Democrats (including Robert Reich and Bill Richardson), Hillary Clinton is the one doing the swiftboating.

[guruoo]

50. America had it good under Clinton leadership. You guys should be ashamed for

way you have treated them.

[Heathen57]

59. The problem is the way that they (Clintons) have treated us.

She has put her selfish goals of the presidency above what was best for the country. The IWR, K/L amendment, her backing Bush, etc. are all decisions that have hurt the people of this country, yet she voted on them the way she did because it would bolster her chances of running for president.

WJ Clinton did do some good things during his tenure, but there were things done that showed that he isn't a true liberal, but exposed his centrist leanings. Hillary is DLC centrist all the way. Once she gets what she wants, she forgets all the people who helped get her there.

So it is really the Clintons that have moved away from the Democratic party and what it stands for. It is a party OF THE PEOPLE, not Corporations and the rich only. She has forgotten this, and unfortunately for her Barack Obama has reminded us what we are supposed to stand for.

[guruoo]

61. Kerry backed Bush on IWR. Did you vote for him?

[PassingFair]

72. Not in the PRIMARY, buckoo! n/t

[guruoo]

82. So you voted for him in the GE

I didn't vote for him in the primary either, but not because of IWR.
Went door to door for him in the GE along with two active duty
airborne that signed onto my canvassing team.

[PassingFair]

85. You and me both, but I didn't have...

the wing men....

[guruoo]

87. They were quite fearlessly

campaigning for a Democrat in neighborhoods less than five miles from Ft. Campbell.

[Heathen57]

100. Sure didn't

I couldn't make the caucus that year. Besides, Kerry admitted that the vote was a major mistake and has apologized for it. Hillary hasn't and now intends to nuke Iran at the first chance. Quite a difference.

[RazBerryBeret]

113. I voted for Kerry....

in the GE, because there was no one who hadn't voted for the IWR.
had there been a better choice, I would have made it.

the same way I will vote for HRC in the GE if she is the nominee, but I voted 4 Obama in the Ohio Primary, and I am supporting him because he didn't.

[guruoo]

139. Do you really believe he would have voted against it had he had the opportunity?

[RazBerryBeret]

140. yes.

but I guess we'll never know.

[guruoo]

141. Exactly. We'll never know.

And that's the point.

[GoneOffShore]

65. Economically good for some - if you were a hedge fund manager.

Small business, a little bit.

Blue collar, not so much.

NAFTA, DOMA, Welfare Reform, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, MDCA, Telecommunications Act.

Oh yeah, can we not forget DLC politics and bowing to the might of the corporate dollar.

Looking back to the 90's I would say that Bill Clinton was just about the best Republican President we've had since Eisenhower. Come to think of it, Eisenhower was better - He warned us about the military-industrial complex. Clinton helped them take over our country, carrying on the work that Ronald Reagan and his cohorts started, paving the way for Bush II.

We really don't need 8 more years of Republican-Lite in the White House. And that is what the Hillsnbill show would want to give us.

[guruoo]

105. I think you're expecting too much.

[DutchLiberal]

110. Re: Eisenhower

Yes, he warned about the military-industrial complex when he left office, but during his time as president, he let the military budget explode. I'd say he is the cause of the current power of the military-industrial complex.

[Voltaire]

67. Such bullshit nonsense you spout

I think you should reconsider

[guruoo]

106. Perhaps your expectations were, and are unrealistic.

[stillcool]

81. "We" should be ashamed?

this Primary season will not be forgotten regardless of who wins. And that is the shame of the Clinton Campaign.

[natrat]

102. please the clintons are bought and paid for trash

[DutchLiberal]

107. A big part of America had it rough under the Clinton leadership.

Clinton-supporters don't see that because they only want to see Bill's succesfull ride on the economic growth on which he had very little influence by the way.

[chwaliszewski]

108. Don't forget this about WJ Clinton...

He had a distinct advantage by being the President when the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Performance_Computing_and_Communication_Act_of_1991">internet was starting its popularity. The release of Windows 95 certainly didn't hurt, either. Between the two of those, the US economy was destined to expand by leaps under Bill's presidency.

[greiner3]

112. Just like bush's popularity went up;

After he bombed the towers?

[greiner3]

111. Now you are sounding like that guy (Person?);

On the video screeching about, "Leave Brittany alone!"

[ExPatLeftist]

131. Flawed Logic

If someone has been good to you, then you have no right to ever criticize anything they do again, ever, and should always support them. Is that what you are saying?

Sounds exactly like the redneck attitude toward France that started before the Iraq war.

I think you must be confused as to what a democracy is. I have sworn no oath of loyalty to the Clintons for the rest of my life. I did appreciate the Bill Clinton presidency at the time (for the most part) and will remember that forever.

First of all, though, that was the Bill Clinton presidency, not the Hillary Clinton presidency. Many Clinton supporters ask others to make that distinction, that they are not one in the same and that this is not just a continuation of Bill's presidency - Hillary is her own person and I will not view her and her husband as a single unit. In some areas, if the "Clinton continuation" is even mentioned, it is meant with cries of anger and sexism. I do not think Clinton supporters should get to have this both ways. So tell me, is it a Clinton continuation or not?

Second, nothing that anyone has done for me in the past gives them (or their spouse) a lifelong pass from criticism or questioning. In fact, no one gets a free pass at all. And that is, IMO, as it should be. But there are especially no passes for attempting to reduce my candidate to a single speech; for supporting the opposition's candidate over a Democratic candidate; for lying about experience; for throwing the grassroots under the bus; for moving our party to the right; and for signing an oath or agreement and then speaking out against it (or them - she's done this twice now) in order to make cheap political hay. If you think that all of these things must be accepted without question, then you are in the wrong party.

So tell me, what have I (and many others) done against the Clintons other than question? Nothing. I used my right to choose another candidate to support. Is that now not allowed in a democracy? Should I be told who is "next in line" and vote for them because someone told me to? I still have a warm spot in my heart for Bill Clinton and his presidency, and I always will. But that does not obligate me to vote for him or anyone else. I do not hate the Clintons by any stretch of the imagination, but I question some of the tactics, and it is THEIR tactics, not my own "meanness" that caused me to decide to vote for someone else. The run what I consider a dirty campaign, I move to another candidate: Democracy at work.

In this party, we tend to question everything, even our own leaders that we "had it good under". If you want blind leader worship, you should really consider switching parties - the other guys have got it in spades, and would really appreciate this particular attitude of yours. I think "shut up and follow" is probably part of their creed, but it sure as hell is not part of the Democratic Party's creed.

If you want it to be so then you have no clue what this party stands for. And if you think that anyone is above questioning or criticism, then unfortunately I would say that you have no clue what this country was built on (and used to stand for).

[Citizen_Penn]

133. They can keep their shame -0

oh, so sick of them.

Pious pretenders.

Screw 'em.

Moving on.

I will never vote for HIllary Clinton.

Never, Never, Never.

[Zhade]

74. Excellent post, and very welcome.

NT!

[susankh4]

29. Exactly!

Their "move-on" to tear down a loyal Democrat, and take over our party has gone too far. Let them get their own damned party! Call it the "Move-on Party" and see if they can get a majority of Americans to vote for THEM.

[Heathen57]

40. The Progressives (liberals) are the heart of the party

Its lifeblood and soul. They are the ones who still hold to the principals that the Democratic party has stood by for decades.

If anyone needs to split from the party it is Hillary and her DLC goons who no longer believe in what the Democratic Party stands for.

Democrats believe in the power of the people, that the country should help the poor, they believe in unions and free negotiation with big business. They believe that ALL Americans should be allowed the same rights, not connected to how much money you have. In this election, they are against the occupation of Iraq and any other attempt to invade other ME countries.

Hillary, by her voting record and her own words, has dumped every one of these ideals in favor of the fascist idea of power to the corps and being the world's policemen forcing other countries to do what she in her infinite wisdom, deem correct for them.

No, it is Hillary and those who fanatically follow the DLC that need to show their true colors and declare that they don't believe in the Democratic values and start their own party - Republite.

[quiet.american]

42. Yep. nt

[guruoo]

53. See post 50

[Zhade]

75. Saw it, still complete horseshit.

NT!

[susankh4]

99. Most Democrats are moderates who lean left.

That is why progressives break away... as did Nader, and the Greens.

It has been that way as long as I can remember.

Look... we need more than two parties in this country. I'll agree with that. I would prefer that groups break away from the GOP. In the short run at least, that would help us most.

But, in the long run, a viable progressive party would do this nation a world of good. If Move-on were to team up with Nader and Gonzalez..... I may actually rejoin them, as show of support. What they are doing now, however, is destructive.

[Voltaire]

68. No problem

try and get Queen Hillary or any other centrist elected without us.

[mhoran]

39. You people are unreal!

Is there nothing that happens with Clinton that isn't someone else's fault? Loyalty is one thing, blind loyalty is another. (Oh, boy...I can hear the "Obamabot" response/distraction coming already)

The ironic thing is that Clinton is loyal to no one but herself. Move On and similar "activist" groups saved her and Bill's ass during the impeachment proceedings; her political career would have died a long time ago, if it ever even got started in the first place, without them.

Hillary Clinton is a vicious, pure political animal, utterly devoid of morals, ethics, or values. She will turn on anyone or anything in a heartbeat if she perceives a political advantage to herself, without a moment's pause or a second of regret.

Sickening.

[guruoo]

58. The Repugs won. He was impeached. MoveOn didn't save jack shit!

[iconicgnom]

89. she, and you, are sliming the Democratic activist base - n/t

[guruoo]

103. And you guys are acting like RWers trying to absolutely destroy two loyal Democrats....

finishing the job Gingrich, Starr, and Rove began.

You crossed the line. Deal with it.

[iconicgnom]

121. Nonsense! On the contrary ...

I repeat - she, and you, are sliming the Democratic activist base, and you're still at it. It crosses no line to point that out. Pointing that out does nothing to destroy any real Democrat.

Furthermore, it crosses no line to point out that a broad-brush sliming of Democratic activists is quintessentially a RW Republican tactic. More than that, it is quintessentially a RW Republican *activist* tactic. So where, exactly, does this kind of tactic leave you when all is said and done and the primary is over?

[sellitman]

46. She Swiftboated herself.

She started long ago backing the bushies and their illegal war and the not admitting being wrong until she was up for election. Now she attacks a group that was formed originally for her husbands defence when he was up for Impeachment. She has done more damage to herself than move on has. If she wants to get mad she should look in the mirror my friend.

[guruoo]

60. I thought you voted for Kerry!

How ya doin, sellit? :hi:

I will agree with you on one thing, Hillary's really had a lot of screwups.
However, I believe her decision to not admit error in her IWR vote
was part of a conscious effort to win over moderate conservatives.
Personally, I can live with that.
I just want my country back.
If that means laying low on the campaign rhetoric with some issues,
then so be it. I say country back first, parse the details later.

[sellitman]

124. I voted for Kerry after Dean was out.

We didn't have the option last time out of having someone who was against the War from the beginning. We do now. Given a choice I voted for Obama in my Primary. If Hillary pulls off a miracle and actually wins it then I will support her. But only at that time. I see Obama energizing the party's youth like never before and I think he has a better chance against McBush in the GE. The Right Wing-nuts will come out in droves to vote against a Clinton. Not so with Obama....IMHO.

On a lighter note...things are better here of late. My son is healing and scheduled to go back to College in the Fall. My daughter too will be leaving us as a freshman in College, One left!!! Yippee

[Exilednight]

104. Loyal Democrat? She's a Goldwater girl, and never forget that. n/t

[bow-tie]

38. Makes a good talking

point for McCain in the general. "Even Clinton rejects Moveon.org".

[natrat]

101. issues? clinton and her fellow corporatist neocon goons don't speak about issues

[guruoo]

20. Exactly.

[Usrename]

25. Why did she use Rove's talking points to attack MoveOn.org?

I'm not sure. Why do you think she lied about them, about their not supporting military action in Afghanistan?

According to MoveOn.org it was the same smear that Rove used years ago. Do you think she doesn't know the truth, or do you think she doesn't care what the truth is? Do you think she went along with the Rove talking points to pander to her audience who may believe them?

[guruoo]

62. Why did you guys use Gingrich-Starr-Rove talking points to attack her?

Virtually everything but Vince Foster, bubba.

Oh yeah, I did see one post on Foster, but we won't count that, as I strongly suspect the OP was
just a RW trroll.

[Usrename]

90. What the hell are you ranting about now?

Who are those "you guys" you are talking about?

Do you think that somehow they are responsible for those words that came out of her mouth?

How does that work? Do they stuff those words into her, and then she just spews them whenever she has a drink?

[roseBudd]

26. Why is your profile disabled?

[GoneOffShore]

127. I bet I know why.

But to actually say so is against the rules of this board.

Of course, there is an answer to shit posting -

Ignore is your friend.

I've found that the more I use it the less ludicrous nonsense I have to read or answer. It doesn't mean I'm in an echo chamber, but that Ignored becomes irrelevant and eventually goes back to lurking under the bridge from whence it came.

[Zhade]

71. That's rich, considering that she's a proven liar.

NT!

[Window]

93. I, and plenty of others, feel betrayed by HRC.

K/R.

:kick:

[thevoiceofreason]

4. Moveon is dead to her now

Hillary's campaign is dead to me now.

[cornermouse]

5. Is this where we are all supposed to sign on to state (fill in the blank)'s campaign

is dead to me now. :sarcasm: :thumbsdown:

[guruoo]

7. They're playing a shame game on grassroots activists that back Hillary....

Tha punks must be feelin' lucky today.

[Hutzpa]

16. I guess....

:shrug:

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. MoveOn blew it when they alienated nearly half the party by choosing someone

before the general. I will never give them one cent.

[guruoo]

12. They're political ineptness is mindblowing....

to paraphrase...

'The political world is hard.
It's harder when you're stupid'

[Lucky 13]

27. They managed to do a good enough job when Bill needed them

You guys are awful. Loyalty is a one way street to the Clintons and their supporters.

Don't you understand that you guys went negative and it turned MILLIONS of people off? Why is it never Hillary's or her campaign's fault.

[guruoo]

56. You should have thought of that before.

I wish that Hillary could do something that would strike
back at Obama's swiftboating, so-called "grassroots" supporters without hurting Obama.

[stillcool]

83. Don't you think she has done enough?

how many more American people do you want to piss off...or piss on?

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail
A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."
"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."


Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States. Obama is a Christian.

The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.

On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.
Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged
comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.

Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group mentioned in the Obama stories.

"Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.

In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html
Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
By Julie Bosman

KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.
------------------

Johnson's comments and remarks by both Clintons before the New Hampshire primary last week had alarmed several black leaders and drew a rebuke from Obama and his top aides.

It began when Hillary Clinton gave an interview in which she seemed to discount King's role in the civil rights movement. Later, former President Clinton cast aspects of Obama's candidacy as a "fairy tale."

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=278988
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.

Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/

Link for lawsuit: http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Zhade]

76. "Loyalty is a one way street to the Clintons and their supporters."

Just thought that needed to be reiterated.

[Evergreen Emerald]

117. That makes me laugh considering that MoveOn is not loyal to all democrats

Just certian ones. Otherwise they would have waited.

More double standard from Obama.

[Lucky 13]

130. The MoveOn membership voted on who to support.

70% of the votes were for Obama, so they supported who the majority wanted. What's difficult to understand about that? They don't need to support ALL candidates.

[RazBerryBeret]

45. A little bit about MoveOn....

MoveOn.org has fought for
•Children's Health
•Net Neutrality
•Bringing an end to the Iraq War
•FISA


They've accepted the challenge of organizing the left in the virtual arena and done an amazing job that the right struggles to replicate.

They now have 3.2 million members, of which I'm one.

Their skill at online organization and movement building has developed a model that both of the Democratic candidates have been able to copy and learn from, acting as a democratizing influence and making candidates more responsive to the public at large and less to high dollar donors.


AND LAST, but NOT least
MoveOn was founded by the Berkeley software pioneer Wes Boyd and his wife, Joan Blades, to oppose the impeachment of Bill Clinton in 1998!!!!!!


inept?

[Coexist]

55. amen.

[quantass]

96. ,

[guruoo]

69. There's no doubt that their heart's in the right place.

But that's not the point here.

[Fovea]

86. If I had to ask myself which has done more for the cause

of Americans who aren't C.E.O.'s, the DLC or MoveOn, I'd obviously be a Goldwater Democrat.

[stillcool]

17. Move-on "members"

[roguevalley]

23. they were created to help that dame's husband! JEEZ!

Moveon is a great enterprise that has helped dems all across the country. don't support them. Fine. Shoot yourself in the foot. And they always take votes from the membership before committing. Have we sunk so low that we don't allow people to choose who they support? God, the legacy of Bush, of you are against me if you aren't for me has permeated the bedrock of this country.

[Lucky 13]

28. They are DENSE AND TONE-DEAF

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. You are right...many of "them" are.

You may be one.

[Evergreen Emerald]

48. They made a huge mistake in alienating 1/2 of the democratic party

I have no idea why they did not continue to support the party rather than take sides. That was their choice. But they will be doing it without my money.

[stillcool]

84. Pissed off "half" the Democratic Party?

How many people do you speak for anyway?

[Major Hogwash]

91. Why is it whenever 3 DU members who support Hillary get pissed off, they say "half of the dem party"

The Democratic party is much bigger than that.

Plus, there is a larger number of people in America who consider themselves independent of any party affilliation.

And a whole slew of new voters this election cycle.

Then, on top of that, there are literally millions of Repubicans who will cross over this year to vote for Obama - but not for Hillary - in the general election.

[Evergreen Emerald]

118. DU is not America

If you look at the popular vote, Clinton has received nearly 1/2 of the popular vote. That is what I mean.

I do not understand your post. Are you suggesting that MoveON work for republicans and independants as well?

[Major Hogwash]

143. What? Seriously, you don't think DU is America? Where is DU - Russia?

We don't have "one man, one party" votes here in America.

And no, Move On is not going to work for Republicans. That doesn't even make sense.

Hillary hasn't received half of the popular vote, not even in these primaries.
And as if that isn't bad enough, 30 states and the District of Columbia have already voted for Obama!

Attacking people who got Hillary elected in the first place was stupid on Hillary's part.
Move On is made of many liberals who helped her get elected in New York in 2000.

So, attacking Move On was a dumb idea.

Hillary is never going to be President.

[DearAbby]

30. they held an election

those who bothered to vote...the majority won, why are you against democracy? I believe the MoveOn poll was fair. Regardless, MoveOn could have been counted on to work to get WHOEVER was nominated in the coming General Election...you don't piss on the troops then expect them to win the battle for you...get my drift?

[Evergreen Emerald]

33. I am not against democracy. And, I choose, as a democrat

never ever to give them one MORE cent of my money. They decided to help divide the party, rather than unite. And it cost them. I thought they were working for us. I did not think they were part of the divide.

[DearAbby]

37. They held a poll for the primary....

The General Election would be another matter. MoveOn would be there to work for whoever gets the nomination...Unless "Burn your Bridges" Clinton, feels she doesn't need their support.

Give your money where you feel is best...after all it is yours to give. As my money is for me. I will support the candidate I feel is best for the future of this country...as you do. :shrug:

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. They are working to defeat her. That is not a democratic party for the people

Had they wanted to continue to take my money, they would have waited and continued the good work in democratic causes. They made a choice.

[DearAbby]

63. Of course

Like I do, they feel Obama is the better candidate. The more electable candidate. I am working to defeat her as well...what's the problem? When the nominee is clear, they will work, as I will to make sure the DEMOCRAT is elected

[Evergreen Emerald]

119. The problem, is that I do not support Obama. And MoveOn will not get my money

to do that. They made the choice.

[DearAbby]

128. And that is your choice.

as mine is to contribute to those who will support the winning Democratic Candidate. :hi:

[Evergreen Emerald]

129. And mine is to do what is right, even if it is not with the crowd.

I am not one to bow to the tyranny of the majority.

[DearAbby]

137. ...than to bow to the tyranny of the majority

Hats off Saint Joan. Honestly, I had to smile at that. I don't have anything to say about your support otherwise...just the martyred style, like a Don Quixote tipping at windmills. You against the big bad Obama supporters.

Hats off to you.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -John Quincy Adams

[Zhade]

77. Yet you don't hold clinton's own proven lies as responsible for division.

Senseless.

[Evergreen Emerald]

116. Here you go again....ignoring Obama's proven lies while

making Clinton's lies MOUNTAINS that should cause everyone in the whole wide world to hate her.

Apparently it is not lies that bothers you.

[boppers]

43. MoveOn's members chose Obama.

It wasn't decided by the leadership. They had their own "primary", Hillary lost, so, like all things related to Hillary's losses, she shuns and demeans them.

Just like she's shunned all the states that "don't count".

[Evergreen Emerald]

57. They decided to have a vote, rather than wait until the general election...and I was a member who

did not vote for Obama. Clinton lost, and they are giving their support to Obama. The day they had that "election" I e-mailed them and told them I was not longer a member. And I will not be a member of a group that divides rather than unites.

[Fedja]

95. They divide by choosing?

So let's see...
- There's a primary.
- There's 2 candidates in it.
- Moveon picked one as a favorite.

I thought that's what a primary is for? Would you take away their right to pick a candidate they prefer? Would you deny them the right to choose? I'm baffled.

[Evergreen Emerald]

115. It appears that you want to deny me my right to choose.

They did not need to dive into the primary. They could have rasied money for the general and helped with democratic causes. Instead they decided to get into this primary.

You are Baffled? Really? I am a democrat as much as you are. I don't want MY money going to Obama. Move-on decided they wanted to play politics with the dems. DLC is not choosing a candidate. DNC is not choosing a candidate.

I do not understand why you guys keep saying I am denying them their right to choose. You suggest that "MoveOn" has the right to choose a candidate for the primary. MoveOn is not a person with a right to vote. Indeed, those people IN Move-on do get to vote.

Here let me help you over your baffleness: pretend that MoveOn decided to support Clinton ahead of the general. Would you be still giving them money or would you be pissed off? I know the answer. Let's see if you can tell the truth.

I am not denying anyone their right to choose. YOu appear to be attempting to deny my right to choose.

[Fedja]

120. But choose they did.

They polled their membership and decided to support one candidate as is their moral obligation. They have an obligation to choose who they consider the better choice.

HOWEVER, your membership is not your obligation. If you disagree with their choice, you're free to leave them. This is your right, your right to disagree with their choice. The operative word is "disagree", not "judge". You get to make your own choice, not judge someone else for making his, as you only carry one vote, your own.

The DNC and DLC may or may not voice their preference, but they are expected not to, as they claim a status of an "umbrella organization" that covers all democrats. MoveOn claims no such thing, they are a private political initiative, and for all I care, they can choose to endorse anyone and anything.

As much as I may disagree with you, I honor your choice. :P

[PinkTiger]

64. You are dead to me now.

nt

[elocs]

6. From what I have read, Clinton supporters are incapable of believing

that any true Clinton backer could ever switch to Obama. They think they either never really supported Clinton, or if they somehow did, then they are branded as a Judas or a back stabber. In other words, they have trouble believing that anybody who truly supported Clinton could ever switch to Obama as a matter of conscience.

[guruoo]

9. I've seen that work both ways.

[rurallib]

8. I really wrestle with whether I will vote for her if she is the nominee

I was almost back in the fold with the Penn semi-firing, but this week has made me think again. The only thing that keeps me saying I will vote for her is the prospect of a Pres. McCain. {{shudder}}

[guruoo]

11. Don't rely upon the supporter trashtalk, and propaganda..

Lots of wild, baseless, hyper-partisan bullshit flying around on DU and MSM.

[rurallib]

15. Based on Hillary's words and actions.

[guruoo]

19. Don't believe what they SAY is in the video, article, story, etc. means...

View the video, read the article, research the story and decide for yourself.

Don't believe what they CLAIM the candidate means.

Search the context, do the background, consider the timeline of pertinant events
and then decide for yourself.

Fair enough?

[Zhade]

80. Yes, DO watch the video that proves clinton lied about nonexistent sniper fire.

DO read the documents, or verified accounts if the docs aren't available, that prove clinton lied about NAFTA.

DO seek out the family of the mother who died WITH insurance after being ADMITTED to the hospital, unlike clinton's lies that she had no insurance and was turned away.

DO investigate, and you will find every time that the evidence that she's a pathological liar cannot be denied by anyone who's honest.

[Zhade]

78. You can rest easy, because she won't be.

NT!

[WillyT]

13. K & R !!!

:kick:

[SunsetDreams]

31. Yeah I've had enough of Mrs Rovian!

[rhett o rick]

32. It is time for the Democratic party to unite and turn on Insane-McCain. I am ready. nm

[Two Americas]

35. this is good

There is a split in the party than has been growing for years. It is good that it is becoming clearer all the time. Moveon and other liberal organizations represent the dominant faction in the party, although the smallest constituency - "socially liberal and economically conservative." That means "conservative," since politics is about power and economics, and that is why we make so little progress in battling the right wing and why the right wing has been so successful.

A strong left wing economic program would draw back a thousand disaffected blue collar people for every activist that was lost in the process. Fighting on the culture war issues is always going to be a losing proposition. The right wingers and the Republican party don't care about the social issue, they just use them because it is so easy to beat us that way. All they care about is relentlessly promoting the interests and desires of the wealthy and powerful few and dismantling any and all public institutions that are in their way. All of the culture war issues could effortlessly be won in a context of advocating a strong left wing program on economics.

It is time we fought the right wing without one had tied behind our back, and that is what the liberal organizations are doing to us.

[klebean]

94. thanx for speaking to the elephant in the room n/t

[Kurovski]

36. K&R. (nt)

[dchill]

41. "activist Democrats" no longer "count."

"I for one implore the people of Pennsylvania to end this charade."

We'll do our best!

[defendandprotect]

44. I agree that the wording sounds like ALL of us . . .

HRC is a jerk --- and she is proving that over and again every day!

[Coexist]

51. wow - I posted this and had to run -

house cleaning and I hosted an Obama fundraiser - and came back to see the love.

Thanks - I'm glad you all enjoyed it as much as I did.

Peace.

[BlooInBloo]

52. Nice letter.

[Austinitis]

54. Let's be serious.

The people at MoveOn already supported Hillary. It would be no different if she trashed Daily Kos.

[Cha]

66. That's quite a journey!

From defending hilary from the "racist injection" into the campaign to stating.. "I for one implore the people of Pennsylvania to end this charade. It is time for the Democratic Party to do everything possible to ensure that we do not face Bush's third term."

Thanks FLDem.

[Zhade]

70. I notice it wasn't clinton's lies that did it.

What is it with people letting liars slide in this country?

Regardless, welcome aboard. Supporting that conservative fucker wasn't worth your time.

[Swamp Rat]

88. k&r

[jeff30997]

92. "Bush's third term."

Yep.Clinton or McLame fits this description.

[akbacchus_BC]

97. K&R

[democrank]

98. There isn`t a segment of the Democratic Party population or

a single indidviual that rabid Clinton supporters won`t trash as they blindly play Follow the Leader.
Mark my words. If Al Gore endorses Obama, they`ll take off after him in a nanosecond. Make a mental list of all the Democrats now on the Clinton Hate List, starting with Bill Richardson. This is an offshoot of classic DLC anti-base crap and a carbon copy of Bushbot behavior....


I`ll support the emperor, even when he tortures, kills, maims, or takes away my freedoms.

[Ian_rd]

109. One of the clearest signs yet that she's running as a Lieberman Democrat (nt)

[mcollier]

125. Obama is a hero

for the American People.

[tekisui]

123. End it PA!!!

[democracy1st]

126. kick butt go Steelers

[Capn Sunshine]

138. The curtain pulled aside

Hillary was always involved with the establishment status quo beltway crowd. These same elitist people have nothing but disdain for the netroots and activist organizations.

This is primarily due to their backwards-facing viewpoint, where they live in a 90's world that depends on the largess of corporate donors. Guys like Rupert Murdoch or numerous weapons industry lobbyists.

However , in the 21st century, the PRIMARY SOURCE OF FUNDS IS THE PROGRESSIVE NETROOTS.
This model allows for the people to hold a stake in the process, and explains why fundraising for Obama broke all records, while Hillary had to loan her campaign money.

Thus, the incredible tone-deafness of Hillary and her campaign, who believe that the 90's model is just fine, and so she totally disses her main source of funding for the general.

[crankychatter]

142. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

kick