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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:17 PM
Original message
Obama and Clinton both push coal to get votes!
Edited on Sat Apr-19-08 04:25 PM by RestoreGore
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_coal

In states like Pennsylvania, where voters will cast ballots this Tuesday, and in West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana and Montana — upcoming primary states — coal sways voters.

While increased mechanization has produced a dramatic decline in coal industry employment, the numbers remain substantial. There are 47,000 coal workers in Pennsylvania and West Virginia and 21,000 in Kentucky, according to the National Mining Association. The three states are the country's biggest coal producers after Wyoming.

Both Obama and Clinton have rallied environmentalists with their promises to develop windmills, solar power and other renewable energy sources and order mandatory reductions in greenhouse gases from power plants to counter global warming.

It's an energy policy that would seem to target coal, which produces half the country's electricity but also nearly 2 billion tons of carbon dioxide, the leading greenhouse gas, each year.

Instead, "clean coal" has become the mantra of both candidates. Some environmentalists are not too happy with that.

"They keep using the term 'clean coal.' That's really an oxymoron," snaps Brent Blackwelder, president of the environmental group Friends of the Earth. "They absolutely are pandering the coal industry's propaganda that clean coal is the hope of the future. There's no such animal as clean coal."

Not all environmentalists are as critical, acknowledging that coal will remain an integral part of the country's energy picture. The two Democratic presidential aspirants' support for coal is outweighed by their strong push for renewable fuels and — unlike President Bush — their call for mandatory, economy-wide action on climate change.

"How they finesse things on the margin is up to them," said Cathy Duvall, the Sierra Club's national political director, as long as they also "talk about moving away from conventional coal ... and putting money into and investing in a renewable energy economy that will provide jobs."

Obama, by representing Illinois, a top 10 coal producing state, has a little more experience at it than Clinton. Fifteen months ago, he joined Republican coal-state Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky in calling for loan guarantees and tax breaks for coal-to-liquid processing plants.

Environmentalists protested and he modified his proposal to include a requirement that such plants have carbon-capture technology and produce 20 percent less greenhouse gases than conventional diesel fuel refineries.

In reality, there is little difference in the broad energy agendas of Obama and Clinton.

end of excerpt
~~
Knowing Obama's stance on nuclear and now coal, I really am beginning to wonder if I can push the button next to his name on a ballot. This to me proves that their so called 'change' is nothing more than saying what they need to say to get elected or get a certain endorsement. How can we now be sure they will really institute any real changes environmentally if they can't even stand up on the campaign trail and say that there should be a moratorium on coal fired power plants in this country? That liquid coal is a dirty source of energy that is not green? Again, WHY should I trust them on the environment? Especially when they vote for bills that show the opposite of their words?

Please STOP PANDERING to the coal and nuclear industries and get some guts! Enough status quo politics. I miss John Edwards. At least he had the guts to say no more coal and nuclear!

And please don't tell me they have to run this way... not if they are truly 'change' candidates. Change isn't just about policy in Washington Dc. It is about the way you live your own life and inspire others. It is also about telling truth. How can people reach a higher consciousness about this crisis if candidates won't help them get there? I am very disappointed with them both regarding their stances on this. How will they then be different from McCain on this? How many votes will they hand to him because of it? I am even beginning to wonder if they only mention it now to have Al Gore's favor.

I would hope they are mentioning it because they care, but then they have both been in Congress long enough to call for that change. However, Obama even voted for the Bush /Cheney energy bill that gave more subsidies to nuclear, oil, and ethanol. And he absolutely "had to" do that? He couldn't stand up for principles and at the very least vote no and say we need more? For environmentalists like myself, I was looking for someone who I at least thought was sincere about this. I guess that just isn't going to happen. It is obvious this crisis cannot be solved effectively from inside that beltway. It is going to have to be us in concert with business, environmental organizations, and states.

And that is what makes me angry.... because there are no other choices (and we allowed the real fighters to be pushed out) so I will be forced to place my vote next to someone who I emphatically disagree with regarding an issue I hold dear to my heart and which is the crux of our sustainability on this planet.

I say, shame on them for their playing along with this system and pandering to it and for not bringing the real change we need to see which again is not just about achieving your political aspirations. This planet is more important than their egos and endorsements or pandering to the same status quo lobbies that got us into this mess to begin with. It makes me wonder just how impervious to corporate pressure they really will be in the WH based on their track records.

This is the reason for my frustration: McCain was picked to be the Republican nominee for a reason: he was the only Republican candidate even mentioning climate change. The Republicans in Congress and this regime though they either think it a myth or that it is not important on the whole still see that the debate will focus on this for the general election and they want votes too ... so why do you think McCain is in this besides his war talk? And really, McCain touts wanting to address climate change and yet continues to support an environmentally devastating war? Where is the logic and reason in that? Will that distinction however even be made?

This is the one issue where we should be making the difference because there is a difference, and they all basically have the same policy. So what will voters have to vote on regarding the environment? True, they all claim they will work to provide renewable energy... but how long will we have to wait while they continue to appease the same lobbies that will try to thwart the transition?

So for those of us who live this, who think about this with almost every waking breath because we so love this planet and want a better one for our children... WHERE is the choice? I have also tried to find something I could even agree with Obama about regarding policy, and I simply can't. And his support of liquid coal and nuclear and his backing down to the nuclear lobby in Illinois does bother me...So regardless of what Democrat gets in this time should that happen, they will not get a free ride regarding solving this crisis now. And frankly with what is at stake, they shouldn't.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Who here has written to them on the climate crisis?
Just curious.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh wait, I forgot... ISSUES aren't allowed in this forum.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. good luck
I don't mind constructive criticism and THIS IS a big deal... you're right

but Gore ain't gonna be the candidate

wake up and smell the coffee... you can either lobby for these issues with the candidates we have OR

you can go green...

but you can't have Gore as a candidate... sorry.... you're dreaming

Imagine him advising the new president... consider how GOOD that's going to be after 7 years of Bush/Cheney
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. We have to take one step at a time
that is to get a Democrat in office. GOP has fucked things up royally. I hope the next President makes use of Al Gore, and pays special attention to this problem.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. ^^^^^THIS IS NOT ABOUT AL GORE BEING A CANDIDATE^^^^^^
This is about holding the ones we have accountable. Where did you see me mention Al Gore in this? He doesn't deserve to be in this political sewer and I am not one of the groupies here living in fantasyland regarding that. I am actually one of his supporters supporting his REAL work in trying to get the urgency of this crisis to others and to ALL candidates. I am not involved in BS speculation and divisive tactics on these blogs, nor would I ever be involved with anything designed to speak for him politically especially after his own words which I respect. And yes, this IS a big deal which is why I am disappointed with the current stances of both Clinton and Obama on coal and nuclear, and mainly posted this because I believe WE need to get on them to do the right thing and show a distinct difference in environmental policy from McCain. I hope that is clear.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. your name belies your argument
Edited on Sat Apr-19-08 05:39 PM by crankychatter
I rest my case

but the caps are a nice touch

see ya over at common dreams

peace to you... seriously
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Well, if you only look at it in a "political " context, yes
Some of us can look beyond that. Peace to you too.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Workin in a coal mine
going down down down"...Sorry that song just popped into my head when I read the title to this thread...now I have a fecking brainworm, thanks a lot!
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Baaaa aad ...Big bad John.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Sorry. ;-)
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. OR
whine about how unfair it is that the Primary contest is the topic here

that might be fun I guess

far be it from me to deprive you of your opportunity to be miserable
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am willing to live with "clean" coal for the next decade. It's going to be mandatory
to prevent an economic meltdown as we transition to a green economy.

Nuclear, NOT.

Repudiating Coal is political suicide.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Exactly.
There is no other choice, really.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Continuing to use coal will be our suicide
We don't have a decade.
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PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Clean coal is the best we can get right now...
Edited on Sat Apr-19-08 05:12 PM by PM7nj
Going against coal would probably cause West Virginia and half of Pennsylvania to secede.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. NO it isn't
And you don't know what people in West Virginia would do unless you tell them there are other options to give them clean energy with jobs that won't give them lung cancer and stripped mountains with poverty. What a cop out to defend this industry. Solar and wind and other options, especially solar are BOOMING right now. To pander to these industries when we should be pushing for clean energies for the sustainability of this planet is irresponsible. And there is no such thing as CLEAN coal. No wonder John Edwards had to get out. He wouldn't pander and neither would Al Gore. And the longer these candidtes do the longer it will take to transition to cleaner energies on a wide enough scale to make a real difference and we will truly be SCREWED.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Wind is problematic
As no one wants to install turbines off of their shores. They also pose their own economic hazards. They are currently testing new under-water turbines to harness tidal energy, but that is far out in the future. And dependable solar energy on a mass scale is still in the experimental phase. We need something to transition us while these technologies are being developed. I'm as anxious to get there as you are, but these things do not happen overnight, especially after having to reverse years of regressive GOP environmental policy.
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WillyToad Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. By the time the next president gets out of office, it will be a dire problem
But until it is dire, it will be ignored by both Democrats and republicans alike. The republicans will ignore it even when it is dire. The EU and Japan and even CHina will be at the forefront of dealing with this problem and most likely will have to force the US to deal with the problem by issuing economic threats.

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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yes, China is the key here too
Can't piss them off when they own so much of our paper now, can we? What a f$%$#^%&*&&ng mess.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. Coal and ethanol are both nightmares
and both candidates have shown an UTTER LACK OF LEADERSHIP -much less an understanding on either of these issues.

Says a lot about the state of the Democratic party these days, don't you think?
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
21.  yes which is why we cannot relent on them.
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