I'm A Member of Moveon.org & A Terrible Bowler

[babylonsister]

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/14136

I'm A Member of Moveon.org & A Terrible Bowler
by Intrepid Liberal Journal | April 19, 2008

snip//

But Moveon's movement is my movement and I'm in it for the long haul no matter what happens in 2008. The netroots people powered movement is fighting to take the Democratic Party from predatory moneylenders, warmongers and corporatists and push our country towards progressive reform. A tough ongoing struggle waged against powerful interests.

These interests include the incestuous relationship between the corporate media and the military industrial complex as exists between NBC and General Electric. And if you think the recent performance of moderators Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous during the Clinton/Obama debate and the perverse reactionary values of ABC's parent company Walt Disney are a coincidence, I have bridge in my hometown of Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Senator Clinton's whining about activists like myself who are informed, passionate and motivated to fight the madness that war mongering enablers like her supported is quite revealing. Her whining about funds raised online "like a gusher of money that never seems to slow down," is even more revealing. Clinton receives contributions by the banks and credit card companies "like a gusher" and supported predatory bankruptcy legislation in 2001. Big money contributors that support Senator Clinton benefit from laws that destroy the lives of families on the financial abyss whenever a loved one suffers from an expensive medical calamity.

Moveon.org's money doesn't come from insurance companies, HMOs, Halliburton, Bechtel, BlackWater USA, K-Street lobbyists, banks, credit card companies or other war mongering corporatist predators. Hence, this "gusher of money" is beyond the comprehension of Clinton and Washington insiders such as James Carville. This money comes from regular folks giving what they can even as we too struggle with our groceries bill, energy costs and mortgages. Yet they call us elitists?

There is also the lie about our "intimidating" her supporters at caucuses. Listen up: I subscribe to something Howard Dean has said many times, that it would be far better for this country to have 100% voter turnout even if Republicans win. I've registered all kinds of people to vote who don't share my beliefs and so have many dedicated activists who also belong to Moveon.org and make our voices heard in the progressive blogosphere.

I don't own a gun or attend religious services. Nor do I wear a flag pin. Neither does military veteran and Virginia Senator James Webb. I'm also not a good bowler. Admittedly, I am "bitter" about the direction of my country. But I'm as good an American as you are Senator Clinton. And yes I'm a member of Moveon.org and will give another $25 to Senator Obama today. Anyone care to join me and help raise money like a gusher? If so, click here:
https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/aprilmatch?match_campaign_id=7&source=mainnav

[Bonobo]

1. I cannot understand the Hillary fans here on DU that are pretending this didn't happen.

What is wrong with them?

Imagine if Obama had done this.

[Zachstar]

3. If Obama had done this there would be a crapstorm like no other.

However, Obama is not that stupid. Mainly because NEWSFLASH: His whole campaign is about activism.

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. They lost my support the day they decided to support Obama rather than the democrat in the general

I do not want to give my money to them. Imagine if they had supported Clinton. What is wrong with you?

[babylonsister]

8. Maybe they weighed both candidates and picked the best one

with the least negatives? Didn't majority rule in their decision? What don't you like about that democratic process?

[Hepburn]

10. Just a guess, but in a Democratic process, Hillary loses...

...so that is probably the real gripe this poster has against orgs like Move-On.

JMHO

[Evergreen Emerald]

14. My guess, based on your posts, is that if MoveOn had decided

to support Clinton over Obama, you would be peeingyourpantsinoutrage.

[Hepburn]

33. Nope....not at all....

...unlike you Hillbots, I would not be boosting the stock in Depends. And why? Obama would have been a gracious adult about an organization endorsing someone other than himself...unlike the constant bitchy snark that comes from Hillary.

Your constant whining is like an echo of Hillary. "It's not fair..., wha, wha, wha..." is a very lame excuse.

[Evergreen Emerald]

35. hahahaha

Can't even be honest? LOL. You are funny.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dchill]

37. You may be right...

but we'll never know, eh? Sorry about your pants. :shrug:

[Eric Condon]

43. It's a moot point. MoveOn would never have endorsed Clinton.

She stands for everything they are against. They would no more likely have endorsed her than McCain.

[Evergreen Emerald]

48. You are blind to reality.

They have been supporting Clinton until this primary.

"She stands for everything they are against," you say. Really?

She has fought for progressive causes her whole life. She is labeled as one of the most liberal Senators. She has worked for poor children to get services including healthcare and education.

You suggest they do not support those things? Perhaps they are not as progressive as I thought.

[Hepburn]

49. Sitting on the board of fucking WalMart....

..she engaged in Union busting. Exactly how the fuck does that fit into your claim of Hillary "fighing for progressive values her whole life?" When did Union busting become a progressive value?

GMAFB......:eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. Wow. YOu just make crap up, don't you?

Had you read about her time on the WalMart board you would know that she fought for progressive causes while on that board. Now, that information has been posted on DU before, and is available.

So, either you choose to ignore it so you can go on hating or you are really really stupid.

[Eric Condon]

79. One of MoveOn's major tenets is opposition to the Iraq War.

And she's hardly fought for that progressive cause.

"Massive retaliation," anyone?

[eridani]

83. So she's ungrateful as well. MoveOn was organized to support Bill Clinton, dipshit!

They wanted to scrap impeachment--just pass a censoring resolution and MOVE ON! Remember?

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. You do not understand. MoveOn can do what ever they want.

But, so can I. They wanted to jump into the political fray rather than wait for the general, they can. But, I also have a right to do what I want, in this democratic process. And, I choose to withdraw my money. They made a decision that alienating 1/2 of the democrats was worth it to them.

[babylonsister]

20. Seems like they 'wanted' to go with the winner, and I'm not

quite sure about 1/2 their membership being pro-Clinton. That could be a real stretch. As for your money, of course you can do what you want with it. But don't knock the good this org. does just because you don't like who they support. And that should apply to Clinton, though it doesn't. She's badmouthing an org. that was started to support her husband; as a post mentioned yesterday, who will she throw under the bus next?

[Evergreen Emerald]

23. They threw her under the bus. They blew it. They should have waited until the general

Loyalty is a two way street. Why should she continue to support an organization that is out to make sure she looses?

It sounds as if you think I should ignore the fact that they want to give my money to a candidate I do not support. That is not a "good cause." They risked alot--and lost alot of support when they chose instead of focusing on "good causes" to jump into the primary.

Throw under the bus? Loyalty is a two-way street.

Again: I know for a fact that if they had supported Clinton instead of Obama--you would be saying the same things I am.

[Hepburn]

52. The members voted and they chose Obama....

...and this is wrong? What? Some kind of Move-On super del should have overruled their vote?

What a bunch of RW shit you are posting this AM...wow!

[Evergreen Emerald]

66. I will try again.

MoveON can do what they want.

I can do what I want.

MoveOn made a choice to jump into the middle of the primary. They did not have to. They could have waited until the general and support the democratic nominee, thereby uniting the dems. They made a choice to divide instead.

I choose to withdraw my support to MoveOn because they are not representing what I am interested in. I will give my money to progressive causes.

We all have choices. MoveOn did not have to jump into the primary. I do not have to support their decision. Just as you would not support their decision had they chosen Clinton.

[Window]

28. Didn't the members vote and pick Sen. Obama?

I thought I read that somewhere.

[babylonsister]

29. Yes, they did. Apparently some people have problems

with this democratic process because MoveOn didn't wait until the GE. Maybe they thought it prudent to announce because he's such an outstanding candidate. I don't know what their reasoning was. Maybe they were as sick of this primary dragging on as we are! :think:

[Evergreen Emerald]

39. They decided to jump into the primary.

They did not have to do that. They could have included ALL MoveON members by raising money for the general. They decided to hold this unscientific "election." That is fine, that was their choice.

But, I choose not to support them because of what they did. That is my choice. My money is better spent elsewhere.

[Hepburn]

53. No one is required to do endorse a candidate....

...so when will Hillary, based on your "logic", be giving up all her endorsements?

:eyes:

[mudesi]

71. Who says Clinton is a Democrat? (nm)

[eridani]

82. They would have done exactly that if Clinton had won their membership poll n/t

[msongs]

6. both clinton/obama are imperialists and corporatists - why nitpick insignificant differences/ nt

[EFerrari]

64. If I were a Clinton supporter, I'd be very upset right now

and I don't think I'd be upset here at DU.

[Cha]

78. To be a hilary

fan on DU you only have to know one thing...

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. The question is however

would you be a supportive member had they decided to support Clinton instead of Obama?

And, would you deny anyone the right to withdraw funds from a group that does not support the same causes they do?

[Zachstar]

5. Turn down the RPMs

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. more bizarre responses. Why not just answer the question?

[Hepburn]

11. Because it is a stupid question that does NOT merit an answer. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

17. Explain why the question is stupid.

I'd like to know what's stupid about it. I think it's a good question.

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. No, Hepburn. It is not a stupid question.

You all seem to have trouble understanding why a Clinton supporter would not want to give money to a group that is giving money to Obama.

I am asking you to put yourself in another person's shoe...to see it from a different perspective. That is what open minded-progressives do--they look at things from another angle.

Had MoveOn decided to give their money to Clinton, I am certain that you would refuse to support them.

[Zachstar]

24. I dont remember crapping on Clinton groups lately...

[Exilednight]

36. Read up on campaign finance. Move On is not allowed to give money to anyone, they can steer.......

their members, but they can't donate directly.

[Hepburn]

54. How little EE apparently knows about the rules...

..but then she supports Hillary...so that should be a given.

[PA Democrat]

68. They can run ads as a 527, but to my knowledge they have not run a single ad promoting Obama.

MoveOn does have a PAC, and they could donate to Obama's campaign through the PAC, but to my knowledge they are limited to $5,000, and I don't think they have done this, as he does not take PAC money.

Anyone else know anything about this?

[Exilednight]

74. They can run ads, and I think they might have run a single ad for him, but that's it.

[PA Democrat]

80. i haven't seen any ads in PA other than the ones funded by Obama's campaign

That's why I was curious.

[Hepburn]

38. Well, then go donate to Scaife and his ilk since you don't ...

...care for a progressive organization like Move-On. After all, Scaife does support HiLIARy.

The differnece between you and me is that I would still support Move-On for the good it does and has always done in other areas. A difference of opinion would not cause me to act as you are acting. In other words, start supporting progressive organizations and just agree to disagree with some of their stances on things. Translation: Grow up and stop the fucking 24/7 whining about how unfair Hillary is getting treated. You are making a complete ass of yourself.

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. Stop the Bush-like tactics. It is not either / or.

I can choose to support progressive causes and give to groups that are not counter to my beliefs.

I do not believe you. I see your posts: black and white. I see how much you HATE Clinton. I know that you would be vilifying MoveOn for supporting Clinton, had the shoe been on the other foot.

We all see through you.

I, conversely, am not vilifying anyone. I am pulling my support from a group that is not supporting my beliefs.


You state that I am making an ass of myself. After reading your posts, I can only laugh.

[Hepburn]

55. Well, then support a group that DOES support your Hillary values...

...go with what Scaife and Limpbigot support. They are big into supporting Hillary...and so is Ann Coulter. Want I should google for you as to what entities are their pets?

:eyes:

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, deal with it: There are liberal organizations that do NOT support the inevitable nominee, Queen Hillary Rodham Clinton.

[Exilednight]

56. You're pulling your support from a group that doesn't support your belifes? Have you given up on...

being a progressive and thrown your hat in with the GOP lite DLC?

[Evergreen Emerald]

61. No. I give money to progressive causes. I do not understand your post

I choose not to give money to groups that divide rather than unite.

MoveOn blew it. And I told them so when they started this fiasco. And I am not the only one who withdrew support. They lost many many members. It was their choice.

And, I do not understand your post. Because I choose not to support MoveOn I am a republican? That sounds like a Bush tactic to me. Either I must comply or I am a traitor.

You. Are. Wrong.

[Exilednight]

65. Bullshit. They didn't endorse your candidate and you're upset. Hillary is GOP Lite and MoveOn ....

is a true grassroots progressive organization that was developed to help the Clintons' fight against the Lewinsky scandal.

Because I choose not to support MoveOn I am a republican?

It's not because you don't support MoveOn, it's your motive for leaving. That didn't support your candidate and now you want take your ball and go follow the DLC corporate candidate.

[Evergreen Emerald]

67. Exactly. They are not representing causes that I am interested in

They want to support the DLC coroporate candidate (Obama) and I am opposed to him. I do not support MoveOn's decision. It was wrong, and I refuse to give money to them. I will give my money to progressive causes. Not to Obama.

They are the ones that withdrew support.

[Exilednight]

69. I hate to break this to you, but Hillary is the DLC candidate. Obama is ..............

not a member of the DLC, but Bill and Hillary sit on the board.

[Evergreen Emerald]

70. you may want to check who his supporters are.

He is as much DLC as they are, if not more.

[Exilednight]

72. Now you're just making stuff up. The mass majority of the DLC roll are either undecided or.........

supporting Hillary. Do a little fact checking before typing.

[Evergreen Emerald]

73. right back atcha

[Exilednight]

76. Really? I looked at the DLC. The only member I see supporting Obama is Kerry. ...................

Here's a list of DLC members. Now tell me how many are supporting Obama.

Brian Baird
Politician
7-Mar-1956 Congressman, Washington 3rd
Max Baucus
Politician
11-Dec-1941 US Senator from Montana
Evan Bayh
Politician
26-Dec-1955 US Senator from Indiana
Shelley Berkley
Politician
20-Jan-1951 Congresswoman, Nevada 1st
John Breaux
Politician
1-Mar-1944 US Senator from Louisiana, 1987-2005
Maria Cantwell
Politician
13-Oct-1958 US Senator from Washington
Lois Capps
Politician
10-Jan-1938 Congresswoman, California 23rd
Russ Carnahan
Politician
10-Jul-1958 Congressman, Missouri 3rd
Thomas Carper
Politician
23-Jan-1947 US Senator from Delaware
Ed Case
Politician
27-Sep-1952 Congressman, Hawaii 2nd
Ben Chandler
Politician
12-Sep-1959 Congressman, Kentucky 6th
Bill Clinton
Head of State
19-Aug-1946 42nd US President, 1993-2001
Hillary Clinton
First Lady
26-Oct-1947 US Senator from New York
Kent Conrad
Politician
12-Mar-1948 US Senator from North Dakota
Bud Cramer
Politician
22-Aug-1947 Congressman, Alabama 5th
Joseph Crowley
Politician
16-Mar-1962 Congressman, New York 7th
Artur Davis
Politician
9-Apr-1967 Congressman, Alabama 7th
Jim Davis
Politician
11-Oct-1957 Congressman, Florida 11th
Susan Davis
Politician
13-Apr-1944 Congresswoman, California 53rd
Cal Dooley
Politician
11-Jan-1954 Congressman from California, 1991-2005
Byron Dorgan
Politician
14-May-1942 US Senator from North Dakota
John Edwards
Politician
10-Jun-1953 2004 Vice Presidential candidate
Rahm Emanuel
Politician
29-Nov-1959 Congressman, Illinois 5th
Eliot Engel
Politician
18-Feb-1947 Congressman, New York 17th
Bob Etheridge
Politician
7-Aug-1941 Congressman, North Carolina 2nd
Dianne Feinstein
Politician
22-Jun-1933 US Senator from California
Harold Ford
Politician
11-May-1970 Congressman from Tennessee, 1997-07
Dick Gephardt
Politician
31-Jan-1941 Congressman from Missouri, 1977-2005
Al Gore
Politician
31-Mar-1948 US Vice President under Clinton
Bob Graham
Politician
9-Nov-1936 US Senator from Florida
Jane Harman
Politician
28-Jun-1945 Congresswoman, California 36th
Brian Higgins
Politician
6-Oct-1959 Congressman, New York 27th
Rush Holt
Politician
15-Oct-1948 Congressman, New Jersey 12th
Darlene Hooley
Politician
4-Apr-1939 Congresswoman, Oregon 5th
Jay Inslee
Politician
9-Feb-1951 Congressman, Washington 1st
Steve Israel
Politician
30-May-1958 Congressman, New York 2nd
Tim Johnson
Politician
28-Dec-1946 US Senator from South Dakota
Bob Kerrey
Politician
27-Aug-1943 Governor and Senator from Nebraska
John Kerry
Politician
11-Dec-1943 US Senator from Massachusetts
Ron Kind
Politician
16-Mar-1963 Congressman, Wisconsin 3rd
Herb Kohl
Politician
7-Feb-1935 US Senator from Wisconsin
Mary Landrieu
Politician
23-Nov-1955 US Senator from Louisiana
Rick Larsen
Politician
15-Jun-1965 Congressman, Washington 2nd
John Larson
Politician
22-Jul-1948 Congressman, Connecticut 1st
Joseph Lieberman
Politician
24-Feb-1942 US Senator from Connecticut
Blanche Lincoln
Politician
30-Sep-1960 US Senator from Arkansas
Zoe Lofgren
Politician
21-Dec-1947 Congresswoman, California 16th
Terry McAuliffe
Politician
1957 Clinton's Chairman of the DNC
Carolyn McCarthy
Politician
5-Jan-1944 Congresswoman, New York 4th
Mike McIntyre
Politician
6-Aug-1956 Congressman, North Carolina 7th
Mack McLarty
Government
1946 White House Chief of Staff, 1993-94
Gregory Meeks
Politician
25-Sep-1953 Congressman, New York 6th
Juanita Millender-McDonald
Politician
7-Sep-1938 22-Apr-2007 Congresswoman from California, 1996-2007
Dennis Moore
Politician
8-Nov-1945 Congressman, Kansas 3rd
Jim Moran
Politician
16-May-1945 Congressman, Virginia 8th
Ben Nelson
Politician
17-May-1941 US Senator from Nebraska
Bill Nelson
Politician
29-Sep-1942 US Senator from Florida
Gavin Newsom
Politician
10-Oct-1967 Mayor of San Francisco
Sam Nunn
Politician
8-Sep-1938 US Senator from Georgia, 1972-97
David Price
Politician
17-Aug-1940 Congressman, North Carolina 4th
Mark Pryor
Politician
10-Jan-1963 US Senator from Arkansas
Chuck Robb
Politician
26-Jun-1939 US Senator from Virginia, 1989-2001
Timothy J. Roemer
Politician
30-Oct-1956 9-11 Commission member
Loretta Sanchez
Politician
7-Jan-1960 Congresswoman, California 47th
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin
Politician
3-Dec-1970 Congresswoman, South Dakota
Adam Schiff
Politician
22-Jun-1960 Congressman, California 29th
Allyson Schwartz
Politician
3-Oct-1948 Congresswoman, Pennsylvania 13th
David Scott
Politician
27-Jun-1946 Congressman, Georgia 13th
Adam Smith
Politician
15-Jun-1965 Congressman, Washington 9th
Debbie Stabenow
Politician
29-Apr-1950 US Senator from Michigan
John Tanner
Politician
22-Sep-1944 Congressman, Tennessee 8th
Ellen Tauscher
Politician
15-Nov-1951 Congresswoman, California 10th
Tom Udall
Politician
18-May-1948 Congressman, New Mexico 3rd
Anthony A. Williams
Politician
28-Jul-1951 Mayor of Washington DC, 1999-2007
David Wu
Politician
8-Apr-1955 Congressman, Oregon 1st

[Zachstar]

12. You do know what I mean by RPM right?

[Maddy McCall]

19. I know what it means....

but it's an odd response to a valid question. And the question wasn't hyperbolic or melodramatic...it's a good question, and I'd like to hear what Obama supporters think about it.

[Zachstar]

26. It is not an odd responce. It is spin from Clinton supporters trying to divert the damage ..

In my view.


You know this is going to do damage so you are trying to drag Obama supporters in. Problem Obama did not say such crap about Clinton supporters. ( I dont have a list)

Because if he did you would be all over it like white on Rice.

The question is nothing but spin.

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. You make me laugh. You cannot answer the question because you

know it is true. MoveOn would be vilified on this board had they decided to support Clinton. And yet, you vilify Clinton and her supporters for doing what WE KNOW you would do in our shoes.

We know why you are diverting, ignoring, attacking so that reality will be somewhere under the crap you are throwing at it.

[Zachstar]

40. Bull Bull Bull. Moveon was not even getting much attention from yall before her comments.

I had not seen the name Moveon mentioned here for the last 4-5 months and the last time was just a link on a war issue.

Vise versa few would have cared this late in the game.

No it is just that now the activist base is outraged and YOU know that these comments will continue to sink the ship of the Clinton campaign.

Instead of facing it head on like Obama did with bittergate. You are trying to project. It will fail!

Clinton is losing and a very important lesson in politics is being learned. You can't stop it. And while it may not mean her loss in PA. It will do lots of damage in upcoming states.

The faster the Clinton Campaign apologizes and faces the issues and the faster her supporters stop trying to project and spin. The better things will be for the Clinton campaign.

But if you want this to fester and grow. That is yalls choice. However, You are not going to succeed in projecting it onto Obama supporters. The comment is exposed and we diddnt say em.. period..

[Evergreen Emerald]

44. How quickly you forget. You may want to go to review DU posts

when they first decided to choose in the primary instead of wait for the general. There were many upset people. We called and wrote to them and withdrew our support.

You may want to review the history before you make these accusations.

You want Clinton to apologize for what exactly? MoveOn blew it. Loyalty is a two way street.

[Exilednight]

9. IF, IF, IF......... If a frog had wings would he bump his ass on the landing? n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. I would be

I like the tenets of the organization, and if Clinton had won the MoveOn election, I would still support them. If Obama had said what Clinton said about MoveOn, I would not feel kindly towards him, and would say that I felt it was a stupid move--which are exactly my sentiments about Clinton.

[Window]

30. Exactly. Makes too much sense...Hillary supporters don't want to hear it.

[Window]

31. Exactly. Makes too much sense...Hillary supporters don't want to hear it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

46. Of course that is easy to say, isn't it. What a joke! Remember Joe Wilson? General Clark?

You all make me laugh. You HATE Clinton with such a passion and vilify EVERY person who shows support for her even great heros like Joe Wilson, and General Clark...and you actually have the nerve to say, "oh, we would still support them."


What a joke!

[babylonsister]

57. You got a reasonable answer and you're trashing it? Man,

your 'bitterness' has no bounds. Buh bye till after the primaries. No point in trying to have a conversation with you, EE. Very sad.

[Evergreen Emerald]

62. I have seen your posts babyl.

You have no room to talk. And please, put me on ignore. One less lemming to educate.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

58. You've made some assumptions that aren't accurate

I am not an Obama supporter. I am a Kucinich supporter who believes that neither of the current candidates are the ones who should be the nominee. I'll hold my nose and vote for whoever gets the nod. I'll WORK for my local candidate running for the House. I don't hate Joe Wilson or General Clark--in fact, I admire both. I have no clue why in the world you would assume I do otherwise.

I do think that it is a stupid move to put down groups and organizations within your own party, as it doesn't help with the goal of winning in November.

[Bongo Prophet]

59. "You all" is a very broad brush, EE. I have never vilified wilson, Clark, RFK Jr or others.

Remember months back when I honestly told you that I thought it unhealthy for Clinton's supporters to be so ready for fights that they would show up with the popcorn emoticons? That it showed a glee for battle that can easily override a positive issues based discussion, and did not bode well for us here? I also said the same to many Obama people at the time. Both camps were so busy building trenches that discussion died, and was soon followed by the name calling and so on. Bleh.

You called me irrational, and some other name, but I let those pass. Instead of responding in kind, I sent you the link to the thread, and pointed out that MOST of the supporters of other candidates actually just said congrats on the endorsement - in that case, it was RFK Jr.

I don't remember a final reply or acknowledgment, and in seeing your posts since then, it seems you have dug ever deeper into that siege mentality.

If my "irrational" opinion even matters to you, I think you are within your rights to support, or not, any org you choose. Or any candidate. This should go without saying, it is so obvious. While Senator Clinton should not have said that Move On did not support Afghanistan, as that is incorrect, IIRC, (I could be wrong on that) she has the right to toss Move On out as a "Sister Souljah" tactic, even if I think it is wrong of her to do so.

I don't know why Move On decided to endorse before the general, and think it may have been wiser to wait, just as I think it better for Al Gore to wait. But the fact that they did not does not make me hate them, as they have been good on several issues of importance to me. They have made other decisions that I have not agreed with, and yet I can generally weigh the good with the bad.
If the Move On vote had gone for Clinton, I would still weigh the good with the bad, as I see it.

Maybe we just have different temperaments, or different criteria, or a different idea of what being progressive means. I don't know. It is difficult to even begin to discern when we are busy broad brushing and attacking each other to really separate the signals from the noise.

This was my point way back then. When the trench warfare and name calling are the norm, discussion dies, and outrage replaces discourse.

Perhaps when a nominee is chosen, we will fight the pseudo-maverick McBush 3.0 together, as fellow dems.
Maybe not.

[Blue_Roses]

15. was that a real poll on the bowling?

Good grief, is this what this nation has come to: bowlers vs. gun clingers:eyes:

omg...could this race get any more ridiculous.

[KaptBunnyPants]

16. I've never bowled. That practically makes me a Communist.

I have no right to participate in American politics.

[ORDem]

47. Haven't given to MoveOn in quite a while, am a good bowler, my grandad WAS a communist!

So, what's that make me? I'm soooo confused. LOL.

:crazy:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. It is not a good idea to tick off the netroots

they have shown they can raise money, and they are taking back our nation via direct individual action. In tight elections, like we've had lately, it is not wise to tick off any faction that has shown they can contribute money and peoplepower to the cause.

[babylonsister]

27. And that's precisely why Clinton seems so tone-deaf on this; she's

criticizing us all when she bashes MoveOn. Have at it, Hill, just don't expect any further support.

[1776Forever]

22. Goes to show where the real alliance is in the HRC campaign - Big money corporate interests!

Did you ever think about all those people that can't or don't know the real truth about HRC and Bill? I used to be one but I learned quickly just where their allegiance really lies and it isn't with the little guy! When you make 100 million plus in 7 years and it comes from Dubai, Saudi Arabia, India, China and other BIG money interests it is hard to see how anyone can still back HRC! :beer:

[OzarkDem]

32. Like DLC, MoveOn is not part of the Democratic Party

Sorry, but I support the party over any outside group that attempts to influence its policies. Outside groups come and go and they're not controlled by voters, but by donors.

[sniffa]

45. Obama took bowling lessons (Bowlinggate)

Obama Campaign Admits $2500 Spent on Bowling Lessons

Obama spokesmen Bill Burton confirmed rumors the campaign authorized $2500.00 to be spent on bowling lessons. "In light of Barack's poor performance we though it critical to the voters of North Carolina that Senator Obama improve his game."

According to Burton Tom Baker, a Professional bowler and North Carolina resident, is under contract to instruct Mr. Obama on the finer points of the game. Following the conference call with Burton Ucs news contacted professional bowler.

Baker confirmed that he and the Senator had enjoyed several after hours training sessions. Mr. Baker stated that Barack is fit, has a firm grim and a steady arm, the perfect building blocks of a good bowling game. "Barack's a quick learner and has shown good concentration on his game. He just needs help with his stance and confidence on the lane." said Backer.

Tom Baker is well qualified to help improve the senators game. Baker won the 2004 PBA World Championship and has personal bowl 49 300 pin games over his career. Baker a resident of King North Carolina was inducted into the PBA Hall of Fame in 1999 in the Veterans/Senior Category.

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/index.php?itemid=3214

[babylonsister]

50. No! Say it isn't SO! Bwhahaha!

Should I believe 'unconfirmed sources'? :P

[H2O Man]

51. I am a MoveOn member

and a retired boxer, and I endorse Senator Barack Obama.

[Evergreen Emerald]

63. I used to be a MoveOn member

Until they made the choice to alienate me.

[cali]

75. you mean until its members voted to endorse Obama intead of

hillary, and you petulantly reacted.

[Evergreen Emerald]

77. No.

When they made the choice to dive into the political firestorm of the primary instead of supporting ALL democrats.

Petulant? You cannot post without name calling can you?

[grantcart]

81. time to see this one again