Question, MSNBC shows Hillary won Texas, I thought Obama did

[oregonjen]

Which one won Texas? Obama or Hillary?

[high density]

1. Obama by the delegates

Hillary by the popular vote in the primary.

[Skittles]

11. kinda like the difference between gwb and Gore n/t

[Alexander]

2. Obama won delegates, Hillary won popular vote.

[aquart]

18. The back rooms preferred Barry, the people liked Hillary.

Whatcha gonna do?

[stillcool]

30. Obama received more delegates..

at the Texas Democratic State Convention. Period.

[Lisa0825]

34. damned LIAR.

You know damned well you are LYING. There are two steps to the Texas system, the primary and the caucus. She BARELY squeaked by in the primary, and those with the better organization (boots on the ground) are favored in th caucuses. We had more volunteers and more staffers, thus MORE CAUCUS DELEGATES. this may piss you off, but it's the FACT. Stop fucking deluding yourself and lying to the rest of us. YOU KNOW DAMNED WELL that you are FLAT OUT LYING.... who'd expect less from the Corrupt Clintons? Fucking typical.

[democrattotheend]

39. Caucuses were open to everyone who voted in the primaries

Not a backdoor process.

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. No, but those who caucused were a minority sub set of those who voted in the primaries

It was an open and legitimate process following the rules, but Obama did not gain a single new supporter via the caucus. So in effect it was a process that empowered a minority group to alter the expressed preferences of the full Texas electorate.

[HopeforChange]

42. Why the Clinton Supporters NOSHOW at the Caucuses

I was an official at our Senate District Convention.

1) Over 70% of the Obama Delegates and Alternates from the Precinct Conventions showed up
2) Somewhere around 40% of the Clinton Delegates and Alternates from the Precinct Conventions showed up

Clearly the Clinton Supporters are not really committed to Clinton.
Sure they will push a button but will they stand in line for hours?

I makes me wonder if these are the cross-over republicans that we are hearing about. They'll tip the scale for her but don't ask them to spend too much effort. They show up for the primaries but won't caucus.

If Clinton wins the nomination then her buddy McCain that she and Bill are supporting will win in November.

[democrattotheend]

44. The minority who CHOSE to participate

It's not Obama's fault if fewer of Clinton's supporters chose not to participate in the caucus. And it should be noted that they were saying on the news that Limbaugh Republicans might come out and vote for her but were unlikely to take the time to attend the caucuses, so that might explain part of the discrepancy between the primary and caucus.

[Coexist]

3. CNN has it striped

Clinton won primary
Obama won caucus

[Nitrogenica]

4. Barack won more delegates.

[Fearless]

5. Obama won the caucus

[Starbucks Anarchist]

Hillary won the primary, Obama won the caucus and delegates.

[Hamlette]

6. split

Hillary won popular vote, Obama won the number of delegates

[sandnsea]

7. If we had an honest media, Obama

but since they aren't telling the truth about this being a DELEGATE election, I'm not surprised they're ignoring that detail.

I'm really disgusted with this country. What a bunch of fucking full of shit liars. And *I'm* the one with the problem. Riiight.

:puke:

[walldude]

21. It took them over a week to report that Obama

had actually taken more delegates. Don't you hate how the media just kisses his ass while she gets dumped on constantly :rofl:

[Auntie Bush]

29. Silly you!

If you got off the floor and quit laughing you would know it takes weeks and sometimes months to count the actual caucus vote.

[oregonjen]

8. Thanks for the replies!

[Mme. Defarge]

9. CNN said the same thing earlier ...

had to turn it off before I started spitting nails. :mad:

[jobycom]

10. Clinton won the popular vote by 4%, Obama won the caucuses by about 20%

In case you needed proof that caucuses don't represent the popular vote...

[tekisui]

13. In case you needed proof Hillary doesn't have a good ground game.

[jobycom]

15. Wow. Snappy comeback. I guess that proves that the will of the people should be ignored.

I never looked at it quite like that before. Because Obama can better use a system that discriminates against women, the elderly, and labor, then he should win. Who needs women, the elderly, and labor, anyway?

[tekisui]

17. For the record, I think Caucuses should be phased out.

But, both candidates were working within the same parameters, and Obama ran his game better. Also, Hillary won the popular vote in Texas by 100,000 votes out of nearly 3 million. The Caucus forces the candidate to get on the ground and make it happen, she couldn't do it.

[jobycom]

19. Those parameters also include superdelegates

who will decide this election on a number of factors. One of those factors will be who the voters most want, so an argument demonstrating that the caucuses don't represent the popular votes would be critical.

If she wins the superdelegates, should I mock Obama for not having game? Or is that just Clinton, who has done more for this party to this point than Obama has ever dreamed of doing?

And anyway, the caucuses aren't about who has game. They are historically discriminatory against exactly those voters who favor Clinton--women, the elderly, and labor.

[tekisui]

20. Many Caucus states don't register the popular vote totals.

So, it is a flawed matrix to determine the will of the people. We use the delegate system, and the Superdelegates are in the driver's seat, now. If, Clinton takes the 275 of the remaining 300ish SuperDelegates that she needs before Obama gets the 80 he needs, then you can say what you want.

But, I don't see it happening.

[walldude]

22. LOL....

not even going to comment on the exclusion of a few other groups that might be discriminated against. But I will say that Hillary people were up in arms about making sure that all Obama supporters knew that the popular vote didn't matter, it was all about the delegates. Until that system became somewhat of a threat to her candidacy that is..

[blogslut]

43. I'm a woman

And I am poor and I walked to my caucus. So, what were you saying?

[jobycom]

45. I'm saying what statistics and experts have proven. Exceptions don't eliminate that.

[sandnsea]

23. Because we're electing delegates

And that's how Texas decided to divvy them up. I also know you aren't so stupid or uninformed as to not understand simple math and election rules. Give it up already. She lost.

[jobycom]

37. Fine with me, never claimed otherwise. But as for who won the popular vote

Obama's got no claim to it. So if the supers decide to choose Clinton, Obama supporters have no beef with it. Whoever has the proper number of pledged and super delegates gets the nomination.

[Justitia]

12. TX Delegates: Obama - 99, Clinton - 94

[joeprogressive]

14. This is a race for delegates so Obama won. n/t

[Andrea]

16. Just one on a very long list of reasons that our nominating

process needs completely revamped. It doesn't make sense and it gives all these posters one more reason to be completely nasty, no matter which side they are on.

[sandnsea]

27. If the Clintons weren't lying, it would make perfect sense

We're electing delegates. We do not do a winner take all. Each state assigns delegates based on registered voters, turnout, etc. It is the kind of system some people support in the general, splitting the electoral college instead of making it winner takes all. Some states have caucuses, it builds the party, they vote on other issues, etc. Some states have primaries. The delegates are elected. There are conventions where humans are chosen to represent those delegates, then they go to Denver. There are also superdelegates, who can vote how they want, but are pressured, cajoled, enticed, by the campaigns. It isn't complicated. The Clintons are lying and the media is helping them. There's no such thing as a popular vote and the superdelegates know it. All they have to do is come out with a blackboard and piece of chalk and do a math lesson and tell Hillary to go home.

[Andrea]

38. I disagree. This system is terrible.

Every state has their own separate way of conducting it. Even within the two broad categories of primaries and caucuses, there are many variations. The fact you can have one candidate win the popular vote in a state and another win the delegates just shows that it is complicated and convoluted. Caucuses are inherently unfair because so few people are able to participate and the ones that do participate are subject to a kind of pressure that isn't possible in a voting booth. Then you have open primaries in many states - why should we allow non party members to help determine our candidate? Then you have the matter of scheduling which gives undue emphasis to a few small and very atypical states and gives a huge advantage to the candidates with the most money (which is exactly how we ended up with these two when there were much better candidates to choose from at the beginning).

BTW, do you ever think about anything besides Obama? My post wasn't about Obama v. Clinton (I don't favor either one). It was about a serious issue which our party needs to attend to.

[jenmito]

24. Obama's website has TX striped, but NV solid for HIM-even though in both states he won the delegates

and lost the popular vote. :shrug:

http://origin.barackobama.com/resultscenter/

[sandnsea]

28. They should stripe NH

and take TX. I think they don't want to offend a bunch of old women who just can't imagine that "their girl" would lie to them.

[jenmito]

31. I forget. Did he win more delegates in NH?

Yes-they should take TX since they took NV and it IS about delegates!

[sandnsea]

33. He tied NH in delegates

They never should have let Hillary run with this popular vote thing, from day one. They should have been explaining the way delegates are divided all along.

[jenmito]

36. Oh, ok.

Thanks! :hi: I agree.

[Orangepeel]

25. He won Nevada, too. They call it on election night and then don't change it when the real results

come in.

[Az_lefty]

26. Obama won the majority of delegates...MSN lies.

[rainbow4321]

32. Pffft....MSM called it for her that night with most of us still caucusing in TX

Literally...I got home about 10:30 pm that night when ours ended and the news was declaring her a TX "victory"...with NO caucus results reported yet. So she got her 3 days of a faux victory lap on the shoulders of her M$M and then the TX caucus numbers/results went sharply for Obama. Not that the word caucus was even in the M$M vocab that week,

[Lisa0825]

35. The Clintons never minded the caucus system until they started losing....

suddenly it's evil. It's just one of many examples of them wanting to change the rules to suit their losing campaign.

[hayu_lol]

41. The most interesting fact to come out of the Texas mess is that...

Texas is still in play. Final delegates won't be chosen until June 7th.

Obama wins caucuses. Hillary wins actual elections. Obama wins open primaries. Hillary wins Democratic primaries(closed).

This is probably the first election ever where we, as voters, see all the different rules in the different states. My, my! What a patchwork quilt we have across the country.

[Andrea]

46. I hope that this works to educate at least some voters about

how this process works. So many don't have a clue.

[demo dutch]

47. Hill won the popular vote. Remember the "popular vote" the one that was won by Gore? only

it didn't matter at the time because the Supremes decided Bush was the one!

It's really time to fix this archaic and ridiculous election! One man, one vote, a national primary and proportional representation!

[B Calm]

48. OBAMA WON TEXAS!