Oh my God, it's STILL...GOING...ON.

[Plaid Adder]

At this point, I am almost prepared to say that I don't care who wins, as long as this is over SOON.

Almost.

People ask me when I think Hillary Clinton's going to finally concede. I don't think she will ever concede. I think she will drag it out as long as there's a dime left in the coffers and that as a result this convention will be the most...how shall I say...'interesting' Democratic national convention since 1968. One of the things that marks the Clintons' shared political career is that they are willing to do whatever it takes to get to where they want to go. This worked out well for us in 1992. It is not working out quite so well in 2008.

The whole "never concede no matter what the math is or what the writing on the wall looks like" thing? We could have used some of that in the 2000 and 2004 general elections. Alas that the one time a Democratic presidential candidate decides to fight it out to the death, it has to be in a primary.

:argh:

The Plaid Adder

[Jamastiene]

1. Winners never quit and quitters never win. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

6. That's the attitude that kept us in Vietnam for nearly 20 years

and that will keep us in Iraq until, as Hillary said yesterday, victory is achieved.

[MercutioATC]

11. There's only one answer to that:

[cui bono]

41. And losers never win either.

[TwilightGardener]

2. In the end, Obama will win the most delegates, and he'll be the nominee.

It's just that we have to wait for it.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Hillary would rather see McCain in the White House than Obama

She wants another bite of the apple in 2012.

[joshcryer]

8. If the Democrats lose this election cycle then both candidates will fall into obscurity.

The Democratic party will simply fall into shambles.

So please don't make such ignorant statements.

[IndianaGreen]

14. The only way for Hillary to win is by stealing the nomination, like Bush stole the election

Denver might outdo Chicago 1968 in fragmentation politics.

[dugggy]

19. There is always the first time !!

That I agree with IG.

[JeanGrey]

23. DING DING DING!! BINGO!

Everyone keeps saying "why is she doing this"? Isn't it obvious? She WANTS to bloody Obama knowing full well she can't win, helping McCain to win for four. Then she can challenge. Think she'll be challenging OBAMA (another dem) in four years? I believe this has always been the strategy.

I'm also beginning to think (and I'm not being mean) does Bill have Alzheimer's? Almost every day he says something and then says "no, no, no, I didn't say that" when they have FILM showing he said it. Hillary just lies but I'm beginning to wonder about Bill.

Am I the only one who thinks he is looking a little, frail?

[Binka]

45. The Very Fact That Corporate Media Whores Are Pimping This Is Obvious

Bill looks like shit IMHO.

[JeanGrey]

62. Yeah, I think so too. He doesn't look well at all.

[DemBones DemBones]

50. The same can be said for Obama and with more justification.

And if he manages to get the nomination, which Howard Dean wants to hand him, he will lose to McCain.

HRC can beat McCain, BHO can't. That's reality.

[eridani]

51. HRC is using the same framing that Gephart et al used against Dean in 2004

That cost Kerry the election, making it close enough to steal. Clinton is doing the same damned thing this year. Every ad she airs says "Democrats are wrong and Republicans are right."

[JeanGrey]

63. Nonsense.

[GetTheRightVote]

4. Loser Hillary will never win, math in her favor, so sorry.

[KittyWampus]

5. Hillary's Campaign=Terri Schiavo. Those of us who care about the Democratic party

and winning in November want this to end but a few extremists insist on dragging this on as a machine keeps Hillary's campaign from its natural death.

It's sick.

[otohara]

31. You're Right On

excellent metaphor!

[Phillycat]

7. OMG, I KNOW. The democratic process is SO TIRESOME.

Letting all those people have a SAY. It's EXHAUSTING. Where's my fainting couch?

[NanceGreggs]

18. Not to nit-pick, but ...

... had Hillary wrapped-up her nomination on Super Tuesday, as she had planned to do, the very people you're now counting on would not have had any say whatsoever.

Doesn't that kind of hypocritical thinking bother you, even a little bit?

Just wonderin' :shrug:

[Phillycat]

21. Wha?

They would have canceled the primaries if Clinton won the nom on Super Tuesday?

I live in PA. It's the way it goes. I got to matter this year for the first time in my adult life. It probably won't happen again for a very long time. If it mattered that much to me, I'd move to NH. I really don't understand your post.

PS. On Super Tuesday, I was an Edwards supporter.

[RichardRay]

37. Nope, the primaries would still have been held...

but no one would have payed a damn bit of attention to them. You getting a chance to be paid attention to comes at a price for the party in November - I hope it's worth it.

[Phillycat]

38. The price of upholding the democratic process and letting people have their say?

Uh, I would hope EVERYONE on this board would think it was worth it. If Obama was conclusively winning, we'd already have a nominee. He can't close the deal. He can't win in Ohio, PA, or Florida. He can't win the GE. So hell yes, I'm glad we still have a chance to correct this enormous mistake.

[cui bono]

44. "can't close the deal" lol. And Hillary can't keep up with him. What is with

you guys? That's the new saying... can't close the deal? Seriously, do these talking points get given to you in the emails?

"A win is a win." Um, no.

[RichardRay]

55. I uphold the democratic process and the peole HAVE spoken...

right now this goes on out of politeness and an overblown concern for the sensibilities of sore losers.

I completely support Senator Clinton's right to continue to campaign and the right of all of her supporters to vote for her. She's a fighter and those who support her are loyal to her.

But after all of that is over, and Senator Obama is still the nominee, then, as I said, I hope it will have been worth it.

[Bettie]

61. "He can't win PA, Ohio, or Florida....."

So, just to clarify, ALL the people who voted for Senator Clinton in the primary would vote for Senator McCain in the GE over Senator Obama?

And the corollary to that would be that by this logic, no Obama voters would vote for Senator Clinton if she is the eventual nominee, choosing McCain instead?

The fact is that both of these candidates have a lot of supporters, neither of them can "close the deal" as you say because BOTH have many very vocal and enthusiastic supporters!

We really need to take a step back here and realize that there will need to be some unity among progressive voters if we are to win the GE, no matter who the nominee is.

Both groups appear to be trying their level best to alienate the other side and that, sadly, could translate to a McCain win come November.

I think we can all agree that we don't want that.

[cui bono]

43. oops, replied to wrong post.

.

[QC]

20. Quite so! In my day the peasants knew their place,

but now they think they are just as good as you and I!

[Phillycat]

27. Too bloody right!

It's as if they don't know we've already scheduled the coronation for Prince Obama! God save the king!

[QC]

40. How dare that insolent harpy campaign against her betters! n/t

[walldude]

9. You catch John Stewart last night?

Interviewing Obama:

Stewart: "Senator Obama, are you worried that if you win the nomination, and then the election, that you will look behind you in January and see Senator Clinton, still campaigning" :rofl:

[kenny blankenship]

17. "No Jon, I'm worried I'll look behind me and I'll see Hillary wearing a suicide bomber vest"

[msongs]

10. yeah like obama is not doing whatever it takes for him to win yeah right nt

[kenny blankenship]

12. We could have used some "never concede" during the IWR debate too

But she couldn't cave fast enough.

[PassingFair]

59. And the bankruptcy laws...

I so remember her passionate resistance....

:sarcasm:

[cliffordu]

13. "Out of my cold, dead hands..."

'nukem' Hillary clinton

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. What else is kos saying tonight?

[ruggerson]

16. You would think Democrats would want a really tough fighter

well we got one.

[Phillycat]

24. Yeah, god forbid we run a fighter with backbone for fucking once.

Milquetoast for D candidate!

[Guaranteed]

46. That's unbelievably fucking ridiculous. Clinton as BACKBONE.

Yeah. Fucking. Right.

[Guaranteed]

47. That's unbelievably fucking ridiculous. Clinton as BACKBONE.

Yeah. Fucking. Right.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Hillary fights for Hillary, not the country, or the working class

She has threatened to nuke the Middle East to prove she is a bigger chicken hawk than Cheney, and she has publicly allied herself with the Latin American elites, threatening progressive government with military force if they oppose American hegemony.

[ruggerson]

30. Oh bullshit

she said she would stand with Israel, which is what every President since Truman has said.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Truman didn't threaten to nuke the Middle East, only a lunatic would say what Hillary said!

What part of "massive retaliation" don't you understand?

[PassingFair]

60. She said she would "OBLITERATE IRAN"

I can't remember Carter saying that.

[Tatiana]

22. This is going to the convention. She has nothing to lose, from her perspective.

I think the only thing that will get her to suspend is a guaranteed spot on the ticket.

[JeanGrey]

25. It isn't going to happen. Whatever happens I can assure you

she will NOT be given the VP slot. Obama doesn't need TWO VP'S breathing down his neck. (Shiver)

[Plaid Adder]

29. I doubt either of them will be on the other's ticket.

I know Reagan and Bush 41 sniped at each other for a long time before they wound up on the same ticket, but it's really hard for me to imagine it happening with these two. Then again, maybe they find it easier to get along with each other than their DU supporters do.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[JeanGrey]

58. One, Hillary will never take second place. And Obama would be

a fool to ask her. And since she isn't getting the nom, it's moot about him being a vp.

[NeedleCast]

28. It's been going to the converntion since Super-Tuesday

Why do people continue to think this is/was not the case?

[depakid]

32. I think because many want to make a point (whatever point they have)

and take their eyes off of the prize.

Which is the presidency.

It's looking more and more like neither one of the two proffered candidates has a reasonable probability to win in November.

Which begs the question: do we want to win?

[JeanGrey]

66. Because it isn't. They won't allow it to go to the convention.

It's been over since Super Tuesday and last night only puts her further behind.

[LittleClarkie]

33. Indeed. My thoughts exactly

Almost.

[Beregond2]

35. This is what

makes the Clintons mere politicians, rather than statesmen. Their egos come before the good of the people.

[sandnsea]

36. How 'bout a fight to the death over the invasion?

Nah, not that either.

Why can't people see through her lying ass.

[SaveAmerica]

39. Really... I'm getting ready to poke a fork into my eye

[WillyT]

42. It's Like Having Root Canal On Every Single Tooth In Your Head !!!

:argh:

:banghead:

[Swamp Rat]

48. Plaid Adder!

:hi: :hug:

[DemBones DemBones]

49. HRC has received over $2.5 million since polls closed in PA, 80% from new donors

so I see no reason for her to quit. She's won the big blue states, and she won Ohio, Florida, and California, all of which are needed to win the general election.

Obama leads her by only 133 delegates (they haven't added the PA delegates yet) and he got them by winning caucuses rather than primaries and by winning red states. Utah, Idaho, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina -- a Dem winning any of those in the general election is unlikely.

Nominating Barack would guarantee a McCain victory.

[last_texas_dem]

52. How?

Where is the evidence that states won by one Democratic candidate in the primary won't support the other Democratic candidate in the general?

And where is the evidence that "nominating Barack would guarantee a McCain victory" but somehow nominating Clinton wouldn't?

[michaz]

53. I don't care how much money she brings in now, it doesn't matter at this point.

She simply can't win, the numbers aren't there and they won't be. She just wants to create as much trouble as she can. It is obvious. Do the math, as they say. She needs to get out and get out now so our party can move on! It is that simple.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

54. Glen Close in Fatal Attraction.

Just won't stay in the bathtub.

[JNelson6563]

56. Reminds me of that Jon Stewart question to Obama

Something like "If you're fortunate enough to win the nomination and then get elected to the WH, are you worried that when you get to the inauguration Hillary will still be running?" Totally paraphrasing but that was the jist of it. Pretty funny stuff IMO.

Julie

[demo dutch]

57. The whole purpose of the primary is to fight it out! so take it easy! It has

been quite civil compared to other primaries in the past.

[Ganja Ninja]

64. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if she pulled a Lieberman and

ran on her own ticket.

[JoFerret]

65. You make a good point there re Gore and Kerry.

.

[demo dutch]

67. At least the debate in NC has been cancelled, thank god!!!