We will lose the GE.

[Buddyblazon]

After the last couple of days...I'm pretty convinced.

I myself will vote for either of the Democratic candidates. But it's become pretty apparent that we cannot win the GE with the attitude of the hard line supporters of both candidates and their view of the "other" candidate.

Therefore I'm just going to do my best not to get emotionally hyped for this one and just brace *wretch* for a McCain presidency. My heart can't take it this time.



You people that are so stubborn that you can't see the big picture...screw ya. You could be bigger people and resist the demolition of the party.

But it's obvious that won't happen.

So...we are going to lose the GE. And lose either the African-American base...or HRC supporters...and the party will be nothing better than the Green or Libertarian parties for the next 30-40 years...basically the rest of my life.


Fuck everyone. I think I'm done with politics. And what choice do I have.

[waiting for hope]

1. I'm hoping Edwards will shake something

up at the convention - I'll vote Dem come November but understand your sentiment completely.

[Buddyblazon]

6. I am an Edwards guy as well.

Who knows...I fell asleep last night to the thoughts of what would be done at the convention of this petty bullshit was still going on.

I assumed they'd put Gore up as the nominee...I'd think we could all get behind him. Unfortunately...I don't think our situation will get any better if they put up Edwards at this point. In fact, I think it might make it worse.

Either way...if Obama isn't the nominee...look to lose the African-American vote for GENERATIONS. I have too many close black friends that have known a whole life of frustration. And that would be the straw that broke the camels back for them. I don't know if they would start voting Republican...but the sure as hell would never vote Democrat. And I would say it would be DECADES for the party to woo them back...if they ever could.

[DrDan]

13. another Edwards supporter here

and I shall be writing him in at the GE.

I am from Florida - and see no reason to follow a party that does not want my primary voice. So I shall use it at the GE.

It is still a D - and the best choice.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[waiting for hope]

23. This party has become too divided overall -

Clinton still has a great deal of African American support and you can say that if she is not the nominee, how many woman voters would we lose? I don't know how that dynamic would play out, but this race has become more about electing the first black man or the first woman than about the issues that affect all of us as a whole.

[formernaderite]

24. edwards supporter who voted obama

after edwards dropped out. I actually get pretty fed up when I hear this from minority voters. The whole point to the Obama candidacy is that he is above race. Things have actually moved beyond race....you don't see overwhelming numbers of African Americans voting for the "black" repuglican,do you? If what you say were true...that would be the case. If people really are going to sit out an election because their candidate didn't win...well then FUCK YOU. (not you lol)

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. Oh yes! Please!

[Medusa]

88. Oh please. Edwards can't do shit.

He's a lame duck who lost in one election and got booted in the next. All he can do is endorse at this point and who cares who he endorses anyway. I fail to see how endorsements do a damn thing for either candidate.

[RBInMaine]

2. Oh Christ, PLEASE CALM DOWN. GE is light years away. Primary DONE in early June.

[SOS]

63. Must disagree. 2008 is over.

The OP is on the money.

43% of PA Clinton voters say they will vote McCain (25%) and 18% will stay home.
Same is true, but with lower numbers of Obama supporters.

Kerry carried PA with 2%. Without PA, OH, FL, NH we lose.

Our only hope now is a McCain political suicide, such as picking Lieberman for VP.
But the GOP probably isn't that stupid.

[Traction311]

74. Done by June?

Perhhaps, but will we have a nominee by June? Extremely unlikely.

[Yurovsky]

3. You can thank HRC for that...

she went negative and refused to drop out long after the math made it IMPOSSIBLE for her to win. And she continues to bash the eventual nominee, Senator Obama.

She could have gone out with grace and class, but chose neither. And we might all suffer as a result with a third term for Chimpy (with gramps getting to sit in the Oval Office and Evil Dick probably still pulling the strings).

Nice job, HRC, pulling Democratic defeat from the jaws of victory.

[NJmaverick]

5. I agree this is completely Hillary's fault

[LibraLiz1973]

28. People who put it all on Hillary are ignorant

I find it to be mostly Obama but concede that she has had less than stellar moments as well.

[Yurovsky]

76. Huh?

Do you have any idea of how the Clintons operate? They live to sling the mud. Trust me, if it had been John Edwards and not Barack Obama leading this late in the game, they would have pulled out the long knives long ago and you would be screaming bloody murder.

Of all the Democrat candidates who started the race 18 months ago, HRC was the first to go negative, and that is simply a fact. From the Manchurian-candidate-Muslim emails to the 3am phone call TV add, HRC (primarily through her surrogates) has been attempting to destroy Senator Obama. She may well succeed, which will result in the Democrats have a severely damaged candidate representing the party in November. If that isn't a Cardinal sin within party politics, I don't know what is. Ronald Reagan, while a horrific president and a mean-spirited prick, knew the importance of party unity and cohesion, and his 11th commandment ("thou shalt not speak ill of another republican") is one of the main reasons that the GOP (with far fewer registered members than the Democrats) have managed to win 7 of the past 10 presidential elections (well, ok, they stole a couple in there as well, but that's another thread).

HRC cares about HRC, just like WJC cared about WJC. She would throw her own mother under a bus to get a few extra votes, let alone another member of her party.

[quakerboy]

79. What part is on Obama?

since the first vote was cast, he has been ahead. What should he have done differently?

[Beacool]

29. Stop blaming Hillary!!!

Some of you just don't get it. There is a large segment of Democrats who do not like nor trust Obama and will not vote for him even if Hillary had dropped out weeks ago.

Is it so hard for you people to comprehend that for many Obama is way too inexperienced and that not everyone bought what he's selling? Why do you all think that Hillary still has so many supporters? Do you honestly think that the majority of them will act like lemmings and just blindly follow the party's nominee? Well, not in this election season they won't!!!

I've heard too many people in NJ, PA & FL say that if it's not Hillary they'll rather vote for McCain, stay home or write-in her name.

So, stop the bashing. Obama is a flawed candidate, despite all the new voters he attracts and the vast amounts of money he raises.

[death to the DLC]

31. Well guess what

Hillary is the most pathetic candidate this party has ever offered up. She is divisive, boring, too motherly (it turns off men of all ages), too hawkish, carries too much baggage, too corporate, and is a horrible communicator.

The Nazis will shred her in the general.

To top it all off, she cares nothing about this party.

edit to add the glaringly obvious: she's DLC, the cancer on this party. These centrist leaning right assholes need to leave this party once and for all. They have caused enough damage.

[Chulanowa]

44. Here you go

http://www.freerepublic.com
http://www.rightnation.us
http://forums.wnd.com/
http://chat.anncoulter.com/phpBB2

If you're not going to vote for the Democratic candidate in November, you now have a nice list of other places to go spend your time.

[death to the DLC]

53. cute

I don't vote for right-leaning DLC centrists, I vote for Democrats.

I'll be staying right here, thank you, and guess what? You're free to visit any place on the internet as well.

[BklnDem75]

92. Calm down...

That post wasn't directed towards you.

[EstimatedProphet]

62. I'm sure he spends time there as it is.

[death to the DLC]

68. assume away

the DU is so welcoming.

You guys pull this crap all the time, if you don't have 1000+ posts you're automatically assumed to be a troll. Nice. The perfect way to drive away perfectly good people.

I didn't vote for the first Clinton (right-leaning centrist, the beginning of the down turn for this party) why would I vote for another? Being a registered dem does not mean you vote for whoever the party throws at you. Yes, sometimes there are consequences in life. This party will rid itself of the DLC cancer eventually.

[jaybeat]

69. So we can assume US in Iraq for 1,000 years is OK w/you?

If not, better hold your nose and vote Dem, like all of us should.

Want more tax cuts for the wealthy, more jobs sent abroad, more foreclosures, more poverty, more debt?

If not, better vote Dem.

Want to "send a message" that because your first, second, third or fourth choice didn't get nominated, you'd rather have 4 more years to let the Republican haters of Democracy finish the job they started, replacing the United States of American with the United Fascist Corporatocracy?

If not, better vote Dem.

And when we ask why you sold us out to those who WILL destroy America and the World, if you think you won't like the sound of your answer, then you'd better vote Dem.

Friends don't let friends commit treason by helping Republicans get elected.

[death to the DLC]

70. it has to end somewhere, jaybeat

more of the same is no longer an option.

[jaybeat]

75. If you don't think McLame is worse than Hillary, Barack or my dog...

Then I can't help you.

[EstimatedProphet]

71. Nope, not automatically

I usually wait until someone comes along and says the tired old attacks on Hillary.

[death to the DLC]

72. yes

it's very tiring trying to enlighten the establishment.

[Rockholm]

77. I believe it is Obama's fault.

He does NOT have any national experience. He is UNTESTED. Beacool you are exactly right.

[shimmergal]

84. Shhh! You're not supposed to say that.

Saying he lacks experience is called "fighting dirty" by too many on this board and much of the MSM commentariat as well.

[Rockholm]

86. Luckily this is STILL DU, although it seems like OU.

Obama Underground....or as I have started calling it..OO for Obama OVERLOAD (maybe even Obama Overboard)
Which is more appropriate?

[Chulanowa]

85. And yet, he's leading Clinton

Who's national experience basically amounts to being a glorified postman.

None of the candidates - ours or the Republican's are "tested" - none have served as president before.

[Rockholm]

87. Take away the caucuses and open primaries

and she is way ahead. It is so obvious at the meddling that has taken place by the pukes.

[Chulanowa]

90. Take a second. Do you realize how goofy that sounds?

"Take away the caucuses and open primaries, and she is way ahead"

What kind of argument is that? "If you ignore certain crucial parts of reality, my position starts looking a lot better!"

[Yurovsky]

94. Yes, yes, yes, it's the GOP that voted for Senator Obama ...

and the messboys ate the goddamn strawberries.

You Clintonites are some delusional cats, that for damn sure.

[SeaLyons]

91. Beacool, it's as if they

have no idea that Hillary has tremendous support. They are incapable of seeing the problems Obama has for the GE. Easier to just blame Hillary for everything, demand she get's out, and then when Obama loses the GE, I guess they'll just scratch their head.

The Hillary bashing on this site has done a great deal of damage. It has turned many HRC supporters completely against Obama, and many will absolutely not vote for him.

[mudesi]

98. Well TOUGH. Obama has won the nomination

I was a Kucinich supporter. I've accepted that he lost the nomination.

You Hillary supporters are stubborn spoiled brats.

[ClassWarrior]

4. No we won't. We've been drawing four and five times the number of Rape-Publican voters...

...consistently. There is more excitement for Dems than Cons this time around.

NGU.

[boobooday]

Right on

People have to start looking at the vote totals and the registrations.

The media is trying to beat the meme that we are tearing ourselves apart, when we are just practicing democracy, and having a competition for once.

They hate that. It might make people think that we should really have a competition to choose our leaders, and not just let them choose for us.

[Buddyblazon]

9. Won't matter...

mark my words.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. The reason it won't matter is that the meme is out there

which give massive cover for massive republican electoral fraud.

"Why, when all the numbers were with them, did the Democrats lose, despite the polls showing a 10 point lead for their candidate? Because the nasty primary turned off so many of their base that when they stepped into the voting booth, millions refused to vote for the top of the ticket."

And nobody will prove otherwise.

[purji]

7. there are 4 to 5 times more dems voting

in these primaries then repubs.I have no doubt that either of our candidates can beat McCain.

[SoonerPride]

8. Obama will mop the floor with the husk of McCain.

Don't worry

[boobooday]

10. LOL

I like that visual. "Husk" is the perfect word there.

:rofl:

[Buddyblazon]

11. If he gets the nomination.

I don't see it as a stretch that the SD's will give Hillary the nod regardless of whether she has the delegates (or the popular vote...that isn't supposed to matter).

[EFerrari]

12. I don't think it will happen and this is why. Weeks ago, Pelosi

started talking about the race ending. Since then, she has apparently said (per the editor at The Hill) that she will not allow a brokered convention. Pelosi won't go for it. Dean won't go for it.

The DLC is fighting like hell but I think they will lose this one.

[cascadiance]

41. And then the Republicans main campaign theme will be that we are the "Antidemocratic" party...

... rather than the Democratic Party, and they would be RIGHT, that we have a select few make decisions over the will of the people who voted.

All of this BS about them doing this to get the more "electable candidate". That's BS that they can use to justify anyone that they favor over a popularly elected candidate. The rationale of "who is more electable" could be rationalized for either candidate. It just depends on how you want to rationalize it and what you are looking at as your rationalization. The bottom line is that the Republicans will just ask the question to the voter come fall, "You say you want to vote in an administration that will listen to the will of the people. Do you REALLY want the Democrats in power, when they've clearly shown that they don't follow the will of the people in who they put forward?"

I think that loses us the GE.

Early on, I thought either Edwards or Gore would be the most "electable" candidate and candidates that could make the right changes. But I've resigned myself to note that they are no longer in the race as choices for the "will of the people" to be shown to be behind them. Obama is, even if he's not my first choice in terms of candidates. Hillary's people have to understand that "inevitability" isn't a true campaign goal. At some point there needs to be something she's campaigning for if she wants to try and overcome the odds she has at this point or drop gracefully out like many in the past have done.

If she stays in now, she's either trying to do it for her own selfish reasons, or for the corporate backers who want to either throw the election to her or McCain at any cost, and also by continuing a very tabloid style campaign way too long, continue to distract us from the many important and tough issues facing us outside of this election during these months.

[RoadRage]

14. I'll vote for the person with the most delegates (not super) and popular vote..

And, I would expect every other dem to do the same.

However.. if "party elders" decide to nominate a person other then the candidate with the most votes, I don't think I should be bullied into supporting a manufactured candidate. Especially if that candidates entire campaign is based on tearing down another democract only so he/she can "win".. no matter what at any cost.

This is about more then just the next 4 years.. it's about the perception of the entire party - what we will and won't tolerate in the future and what we expect out of our candidates. At this point, I see one candidate as no better - and in some ways worse then the republicans running. How do we decry their tactics and complain about them stealing elections if we're willing to let our own do this? If we think we're better then republicans, we need to act like it. And if we're not willing to act like it, the I see no point in staying with the party.

[TomClash]

15. You're wrong

Time heals all wounds. And these wounds aren't really that deep. Anyone who voted for HRC because of her policies will vote for Barack and vice versa.

Barack will be the nominee - you can bank on it.

Wait and see.

[TragedyandHope]

16. WRONG

I will vote for the Democratic candidate. Many millions of us understand the threat if McCain gets in the White House. It's much, much bigger than the issues we've faced in this Primary season.

This isn't a student council election, this is the most important election for our country in decades. It is literally life and death. I'm certain that there are enough thoughtful and pragmatic Democrats who will be able to lick their wounds over the coming months and choose to do the right thing.

Make no mistake, the party will come together and we will crush McCain in November, no matter the nominee.

:kick:

[zerostar]

17. No way!

We have drawn record turnout, yesterday BUSH was at the LOWEST approval rating he has ever been, may people are excited to vote and to vote DEM. We need to push forward, get to the convention and choose our Nominee, then the fun begins, just stay off DU until then if it is all too much for you. The hate this year is like nothing I have seen before.

[BlooInBloo]

19. No, Clinton supporters will TRY the make the Democratic nominee lose.

[lutefisk]

33. So HRC can run in 2012? I don't think she wants to spend 8 more years in the Senate-

-it's her "Crawford ranch" and she can't wait to stop going there. The Senate served its purpose for her, but waiting until 2016 just isn't going to work.

[kenny blankenship]

48. Yeah how many times can you propose a Flag Burning Amendment before it gets old?

And agreeing to an amendment that allows war against Iran to start is good times an' all, but it's nothing compared to the fun of putting your own finger on the button and sending the missiles to nuke Iran.

She just wants to see her old stuff in the White House again - the draperies, the china, her throne, Monica's old bed in the children's room. People should try to sympathize a little more.

[Birthmark]

20. I agree.

I'm pretty much done with it all. I've been involved all my life, sometimes heavily so, and it's made zero difference. During all that time, both parties have moved inexorably to the right, so much so that people like Clinton and Obama are considered "liberal" by most Americans.

There just really doesn't seem to be any rational course but to let them have their way, crash the country, and come back to help pick up the pieces.

[zeemike]

21. If the Dems louse the GE it will be due to massive voter fraud.

And that is a very likely possibility given the fact that the right wing controls the media who will cooperate with the fraud by providing a plausible reason why so many would vote against their own interest.
Just think about it, we have seen the fix in the last 2 elections and no one would challenge it. And short of a massive uprising by the rank and file Dems an even greater fraud can be done this in 08.

[jaybeat]

81. Election fraud, not voter fraud

The later is what Gonzo fired the US Attorneys for not fabricating more of--people who aren't entitled to vote voting anyway or twice or whatever. (Almost) never happens, but it is a great right-wing excuse to purge voters who are likely to vote Democratic.

Election fraud is using crony election officials on the ground, privatized tabulating and/or voting machine software, "mysterious" problems (only in Dem-heavy precincts) or all of the above to change election results. That is what they've done in the last 4 national elections, and we can be sure will try again this fall.

The one and only thing we can do about it now is what we did in '06--so COMPLETELY blow them away that their slime-ball tactics can't overcome the margin without looking obvious. Which is why turnout, boots on the ground, and grass-roots energy all the way to November are so important. If the DLC/HRC wing of the party kills that, we WILL get McLame.

And from that point on, the words "election" and "fraud" will mean the same thing, so we really won't have to worry about any of this ever again.

[Tennessee Gal]

22. If Obama is the nominee, yes, we will lose.

[Mags]

32. Yes we will.

[cascadiance]

47. So both of you say!...

Thanks for making such a strong case for your beliefs here... :eyes:

[closeupready]

25. I don't think so. What is going to happen is Clinton and Obama are going to have to share the ticket

I don't want to see that anymore than anyone else, but it will win. Clinton alone can not win, and Obama probably can't either.

[WA98296]

26. We've already been told, the election has already been stolen. I now believe it.

[DemGa]

27. The Junior Senator effed up what was an easy path

What a freakin' mess - one of the biggest disappointments I've ever seen. Thanks "Barack Obama."

What a waste.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. You got it, jumped in a race he wasn't ready for and

still can't handle. Won't debate again because he looked so bad last time.

[sandnsea]

73. No, this would be happening between Edwards and Clinton now

And he would be just as shocked at Hillary's attempts at election theft as well. I don't know how to get it through some people's heads, Hillary is HATED and all those states that swamped her for Obama, would have swamped her for Edwards. The only question would be the black vote, which means the election would probably be closer. But all those rural racist voters who went for Hillary, probably would have went for Edwards because they'd have seen Hillary as the black candidate instead of Barack. But we'd still be in this mess, make no mistake about it. People hate her.

[cyndensco]

96. yup, the junior senator effed up everything

How DARE he run before his turn. It was hillary's turn, it was hillary's turn!!! :sarcasm:

[Norrin Radd]

30. The repubs aren't in it to win. They want the Democratic party to

clean up the mess while they vacation and count their filthy lucre; they are aiming for gains in Congress, by stirring up inconsequential crap like flag pins and such.

[high density]

35. Nobody will remember this crap by mid September

Memories flooding out at the convention might open a few scabs, but this bickering and division is done in a month or so. Clinton will have no options at that point except to end her campaign.

[underpants]

36. Yeah, I mean how could we possibly beat THIS?!?!??!

:sarcasm:

McCain's plan for Big Oil

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3196719

[Shine]

37. Let's not go there. We need to keep a positive perspective and not sink into fear.

Negative thinking gets you nowhere.

I invite you to change how you feel by what you choose to focus on.

Our thoughts, words and deeds are extremely powerful....so why not envision a LANDSLIDE instead of worrying about what hasn't happened yet?

:shrug:

[stillcool]

38. Your choice ..

fuck everybody.

[auburngrad82]

39. The hard line voters are McCain's only hope

If we as Democrats can get our shit together instead of showing our asses all the time we'd have the the Senate races, the Congressional races, and the White House handed to us. But we have to show we're big and bad and don't really give a crap about anything except our guy. Screw Iraq, screw gay rights, screw stem cell research, screw abortion rights, screw Iran. If we don't get over the bickering we can look forward to a minimum of four years of McCain. And we'll deserve it.

[Tyler Durden]

42. I'm with you. Fuck BOTH campaigns.

Either one might have made a good Candidate in November, but both campaigns had to play "Scorched Earth."

Now we're fucked. Again. Maybe this is what we need to radically change the system.

OPPRESSED OF THE NATION UNITE! DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM!

[Dhalgren]

58. I'm with you, Tyler!

Take back our country the only way we can! Democratic Socialism!

:applause:

:woohoo:

[Tyler Durden]

60. Love the Che Quote.

His daughter is a Doctor in Havana. I'm recommending the medical school there to parents of smart kids I know who can't even afford community college. Some have applied.

[aquarius dawning]

43. I agree with pretty much everything you said.nt

[NC_Nurse]

45. I hate to disagree, but most people aren't even watching all of this shit.

We're the 1%'ers here at DU. Most people don't get invested in the primaries.
A lot of people said "fuck politics" a long time ago. This will pass.

[jackson_dem]

46. The party will more or less unite when it counts

In 2000 McSame supporters said they wouldn't vote for Bush either but there they were pulling the lever for him when it mattered. The real question about electability is whether we are going to nominate someone who wins only somewhere between 40-45% support in a two candidate race if you adjust for GE demographics. You may not like it but it is a reality that Obama's bases will shrink--significantly (as in half and roughly half with young voters being an unreliable wild card who didn't show up for Obama yesterday) as a percentage of the vote in November. Where does he make it up? Working people? Latinos? Get real...

[Fox Mulder]

49. You know, if this crap goes on until the convention...

then the GOP will win the GE.

I hate this crap. Hillary supporters saying they won't vote for Obama and Obama supporters saying they won't vote for Hillary. If you fall into that category, then fuck off. You'll be the reason why McCain will become president.

[death to the DLC]

56. not true,

she brought it all on herself. Hell, she endorsed McCain. He's fully qualified according to her.

[redqueen]

50. Don't make me vote for McCain!

This is getting so fucking old... the tantrums... suffering Christ... let this end soon!

[Scriptor Ignotus]

51. I guess you could fight for it

but it's a lot easier just to give up and do nothing.

Don't let the next Republican Administration hit your ass on the way out.

[klyon]

52. I think an Obama/ Clinton ticket could unite the party

everyone kiss and make-up please

[backscatter712]

57. Good luck with that.

After Hillary's Rovian campaign tactics, her lies, her votes for the Iraq War and Kyl-Lieberman, and her threats to nuke Iran, I will not accept her. Not under any circumstances. I will not vote for her if she's the nominee. I will not accept her as Obama's running mate. The only acceptable solution is Hillary's complete marginalization.

Get her cancer out of this party.

[Tyler Durden]

61. Attitudes like yours are what's wrong with the Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

A Pyrrhic victory (IPA: /ˈpɪrɪk/) is a victory with devastating cost to the victor. The phrase is an allusion to King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:

The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.<1>

In both of Pyrrhus's victories, the Romans lost more men than Pyrrhus did. However, the Romans had a much larger supply of men from which to draw soldiers, so their losses did less damage to their war effort than Pyrrhus's losses did to his.

The report is often quoted as "Another such victory over the Romans and we are undone."

(snip)

[Lorien]

55. I'm feeling pretty much the same way these days

I never liked either of the pro-corporate candidates.This country has taken such a beating in the past eight years, and I don't have any real "hope for change' with any of the candidates offered. No one has any bold plans. No plans to stop climate change, no plans to ditch the Patriot Act, no bold plans to save the economy or schools, and only vague plans to get out of Iraq. I have a few friends who are excited about Obama, but the rest are just sick of it all and want it to be over.Like you, I feel like I can't afford to care anymore. :-(

[EstimatedProphet]

59. That's been my feeling for a long time

We aren't focusing on defeating McCain. All I hear instead is how Hillary is the same as McCain.

[Carrieyazel]

64. All McCain needs is about a 3 point lead in the polls, and he's got that right now.

He's leading both Obama and Hillary by 47%-44% in today's Rasmussen Poll. All he needs to do is barely win independents, and get more than 80% of Republicans against Obama, and he's got it. It looks like numerous HRC supporters will refuse to vote for Obama, holding him to about 70% of Democrats in the fall, ensuring Obama's defeat.

[Tyler Durden]

65. Both camps are playing that bullshit game...

Like either one of them has been an honest and positive campaign.

I don't know who to fault: the "Axis of Idiocy (Dean/Brazille/Pelosi/Reid)," the party apparatchics running the campaigns, or the candidates themselves for letting it come to this.

[madrchsod]

80. you realize that this poll is meaningless.....

[kwenu]

66. We need a nominee now. I'll worry about the GE later.

[DeschutesRiver]

67. I get it

Except as an older independent voter, if Hillary is the nominee, I will vote McCain without hesitation. He almost switched to democrat before, at least he isn't like Bush as much as Hillary is. I am not happy doing this; and if the nominee had been a hoser like Huckabee, then god, I guess I'd have to hold my nose and vote for the thug. But that isn't how the cards fell on the repub side. Besides, the guy won't do more than 4 years, and we've had far far worse in the recent past.

I am still hoping against hope that the SDs will do what they are supposed to do and end this thing by upholding the will of the democratic party as evidenced by the delegate count, as it was intended at their formation, and as it should be. Because if they don't, there won't be an effective democratic party for some time to come. Frankly, if the dems can't get their act together and end this power grab charade, then there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. If Hillary is so enamoured by the republican "winner take all" primary elections, for god's sake she ought to just declare as a repub and get it done with. She is at times more republican than even McCain - I find it shocking to see that happen.

Democrats still have a fighting chance in the GE - but they have to end the internal fight right now. Which in theory shouldn't be hard to do, because the race is over as I type. Unless everyone lets the spoiled child continue to throw a fit in the sand box and screw things up further. I am so mad about this I could spit.

[madrchsod]

78. my dog could beat senior moment john

[aquarius dawning]

89. Maybe, but Barack Obama can't.

[jbm]

82. you are correct

but we can still work on getting the house, the senate, and state and local dems elected. The year does not have to be a total loss.

[swishyfeet]

83. When Hillary loses she COULD support Obama

If she comes out and strongly supports the nominee, why wouldn't her supporters follow.

Right now she's in full attack mode because she's still technically in it, but she won't be attacking FOREVER. If she's half the candidate all her supporters are saying she is, she'll rally the party in November right?

RIGHT?!!?!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

93. We are not going to lose the GE!

unless they rig the elections again or bring the country down with martial law.

[burythehatchet]

95. you and the mouse in your pocket?

[gsaguyCLW54]

97. I'm voting for whoever the Dems nominate....

...I just happen to believe obama's errors will hurt him more in the fall than Clintons.

[crankychatter]

99. be a warrior... suck it up

let's go troop

I don't want to hear "I can't"

tell me what you CAN do

[IDemo]

100. Since my vote as a red state Dem will not count in the GE, and should not count in the primary,

or so many appear to believe here, I won't feel bad writing in Obama if Hillary succeeds in ripping off the nomination. No loss, right?

(note -- I don't really worry about her succeeding.)

[shadowknows69]

101. I'm sick of this shit

Either get behind your party with a positive force or go away.

[dorktv]

102. Read up on 1924. Then 1948. Then remember, patience is a tired mare but she jogs on.

:hug:

I have found it hard in the past few days to look past the hate that certain supporters have for me. But look past I eventually will.

[muffin1]

103. Yup!

That's always been my problem with DU...people here seem to prefer to lose an election to voting for whomever isn't their first choice.
WTF? Jesus, I hope you guys can pull it together long enough to see that either of our candidates is better than McCain.

[Toucano]

104. Not true, Not true, Not true.

Don't let the Hillbots and Obamamites convince you otherwise.

http://www.electoral-vote.com

EITHER DEMOCRAT CAN BEAT MCCAIN!

[FlyingSquirrel]

105. Good Dress Rehearsal, Bad Show. Bad Dress Rehearsal, Good Show.

Maybe that'll be true with us too. It looked like Kerry was pretty much guaranteed to win. It looks bad for us right now.

Maybe our fortunes will be reversed in the fall.

Maybe this cloud has a silver lining (such as increased voter registration for Democrats) and maybe people have finally had enough of the Repugs for awhile.

Who knows. I'm not gonna get down right now, it's way too early.

[cmf]

106. I'm pretty demotivated as well

The way I see it - if Obama is running the racists will either vote for McCain or stay home, and if Hillary runs, she won't be able to motivate enough people to turn out the vote. I think either way, we're screwed at this point.

[LWolf]

107. Yes. n/t

[JoFerret]

108. Minor point

...that AA base was Clinton's base just a year ago.