If the Democratic party throws black voters under the bus, I will lie down with them.

[Barack_America]

The race under the current rules (pledged delegate victory) is over. Barack Obama has won.

If the Democratic party overturns the results of the pledged delegates to deny a black man the nomination, I will not support the Democratic nominee. And let's not kid ourselves that the hesitancy to declare him the victor has much to do with the color of his skin.

African American voters have been the rock of the Democratic party through thick and thin. They stuck by Gore. They stuck by Kerry. Now they have a candidate that they are not "sticking with", they have a candidate that they truly want. The excitement is palpable in my neighborhood.

I have always lived in a swing state that remained blue on the strength of the African American vote. I have never known an election where I wasn't counting on the votes of African Americans. It is time for me to return the favor. It is time for my party to stop taking the support of African Americans for granted.

I'm standing by my black neighbors, who voted 90% for Barack Obama. If the Democratic party doesn't respect their votes, it no longer respects mine either.



Feel free to flame me for recognizing that race is an issue in this election and siding with African Americans rather than pandering to racist whites. I would be honored to receive those flames. Obama IS the better Democratic candidate and I am disgusted that my party would deny him the election due to fear of white racism.

[EFerrari]

1. I agree. It would be unconscionable. n/t

[hogwyld]

188. I reserve the space under the rear wheels

Cause if the SD's overturn this, then the democratic party is no longer the democratic party.

[PoliticalAmazon]

234. You guys make me so proud to be an Obama supporter.....

...this is the kind of Obama community effort that has made this campaign so incredible. What an opportunity we have had to have both a powerful, inspirational leader AND a great community of supporters.

[aquart]

367. Please tell me your tongue was in your cheek there.

[Yes We Did]

273. Right next to you.

If they overturn the will of the people, i'm done with them too.

[aquart]

369. Well, no. It's the Democratic party.

And you might want to look up our history.

[Leopolds Ghost]

389. And you might want to look up all those non-voters who dropped out of the Party thanks to Humphrey.

[roguevalley]

193. I will go with you, Kristi.

[LVjinx]

250. But pledged delegate lead does not equal the nomination. The rules are clear. 2024 are needed.

[Barack_America]

266. That Obama will also emerge with more pledged delegates is also clear...

And if the SD's overturn the results of this election because they would rather cave to racism rather than take a stand against it, I am out.

[bjobotts]

390. Yes they should only throw stupid racist idiots under the..oh you're already there

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Whenever you're ready!

[hiaasenrocks]

3. You shouldn't be flamed for acknowledging the fact that race is an issue.

When one demographic votes in lockstep (over 90%) there is definitely a race problem in society.

[Barack_America]

12. .

Same with gender.

But Obama would never be able to talk about how wonderful it would be to have a black President, as Hillary said last night regarding a woman.

Why is that?

[hiaasenrocks]

20. Which gender is voting over 90% one way?

References, links, please?

[Erin Elizabeth]

55. Is that it? Does Hillary and her supporters have sour grapes

because they thought they would just lock up all the female votes by virtue of the fact that Hillary has a vagina, too?

Sorry it doesn't work that way.

[hiaasenrocks]

60. No.

The OP cited the lockstep voting. I referenced it and the OP said it is the same with gender.

I'm asking a simple question: Which gender?

Got an answer?

[cyndensco]

144. She and her husband have sour grapes too

because they KNEW they could count on the black vote.

Again, sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[PoliticalAmazon]

235. Clintons thought they were ENTITLED to the Black vote...

...and have been quite pissy when the African-American voters wouldn't fall down at their feet.

[Bette Noir]

327. HIllary HAD the black vote

Until Bill started race-baiting.

[aquart]

357. Until Obama's surrogates SAID he was race-baiting.

Magically, Bill Clinton suddenly became a racist just before the South Carolina election. Such a seasoned campaigner to make such an error. Because, after all, WHO COULD BENEFIT EXCEPT OBAMA?

But you keep drinking that tasty KoolAid, darlings.

[no1dolo]

426. I don't think it's magic. Perhaps he doesn't want HIllary to win.

Considering all the errors this "seasoned campaigner" is making, I'm beginning to wonder if he really does want his wife to win or not. Everytime she makes ground, he steps in and blows it. I don't mind ... he is helping the Obama compaingn.

[Raineyb]

429. Black people know race baiting when they hear it

We don't need someone to tell us when it's happening.

Credit for having a bloody brain would be appreciated.

Regards

[aquart]

355. "Fall down at their feet."

Better to kiss Obama's beige toes.

[butterfly77]

154. Why can you Hillary people understand that..

the republicons are helping you so that their partner in crime Hillary can steal the nomination. No matter what I will not vote for Hillary.

[aquart]

362. Golly. Wasn't that what you were accusing Hillary supporters of?

So, ducky, now we know you AIN'T a Democrat. What are you really?

Besides totalitarian fascist, lying....eh. I should consider the source.

[reggie the dog]

377. I will vote for whichever person

wins the pledged delegate race and the popular vote tally counting states like Texas but excluding states like Michigan. If there is a split between the popular vote and pledged delegate vote I will vote for whichever D gets the nomination. If the supers overturn the will of the voters and choose someone who lost the delegate race and the popular vote I am done with the Democratic party.

[jackson_dem]

160. Clinton won less than 60% of the female vote in PA, a state she won

Conclude for yourself what her national popular vote is among women. She leads but barely, as in with maybe 6-8 more points than Obama. Obama leads blacks over Clinton by 70-80 points nationally and this holds true in each state. Clinton sometimes loses the female vote. Obama never has come close to losing the black vote.

[NOLALady]

300. John Kerry, Al Gore and Bill Clinton

also had the black vote nationally.

Blacks obviously believed they were better choices.

[psychmommy]

449. they were and they all won.

but 2 elections were stolen like you guys are trying to do in this primary season.

[hokies4ever]

289. Hillary's been playing the race and gender card

Hillary's own campaign is to blame for their inability to capture more than about 10 to 15 percent of the black vote. From Geraldine Ferraro to Bill Clinton, her campaign has repeatedly marginalized Barack Obama because of his race, and blacks aren't too happy about that. Hillary's entire premise right now is that Barack Obama can't win over the white working class voters, as if they're more important than other voting blocks. Telling blacks their votes aren't as important as other people's votes will NOT make them more likely to vote for Hillary, which is why she started off with a majority of the black vote early on in this election season but is not barely about to get 10% of their vote.

Voting blocks want to be respected, plain and simple. Hillary's campaign has not respected blacks, therefore they aren't going to vote for her.

[eagertolearn]

383. I would not say gender but I would say white blue collar voters voting

for Hillary is kind of like the blacks voting for Obama. I'm totally on board with the rest of you. If Obama loses this election because of the smear tactics of Hillary paring up with the repugs I think i'd move to the city and start riots and would definitely leave my party and not vote at all because what would be the use? But if Clinton were to win legitimately(because of issue's not smear tactics that bring down the democratic party) I would back her. But now the only way she could win is by amping up the smear tactics and lie's so I don't know what I would do at this point. Wow I think I have hit the "would not vote stage" at this point and I can't believe I am saying this. I would never vote for McCain though and those who say they would if their candidate doesn't win needs their head screwed on a different way.

[Leopolds Ghost]

393. You're changing the subject. Answer Kristi's question... or admit the double standard

Do you yield the point Kristi made or not?

[EFerrari]

35. Bingo, bingo, bingo!

[hiaasenrocks]

43. Maybe you can answer it. Which gender is voting over 90% one way?

[EFerrari]

57. I don't think I'm getting the point of your question. Obviously, neither is.

But, why is it that Obama can't speak in an uncoded way about how cool it would be elect the first black president while Hillary can openly talk about electing a woman? I think that's an interesting question, don't you?

[hiaasenrocks]

66. Here's the point of the question.

The OP cited the lockstep voting. I responded to it and the OP said it was the same with gender. (You responded, agreeing with the OP.)

Which gender is voting in near lockstep, 90%+?

Just curious.

[EFerrari]

72. Maybe you're being a bit too literal.

Clinton certainly has a constituency of women who are voting for her because they do see her as the first viable woman contender (or, that was true at one time, anyway).

[hiaasenrocks]

81. I go by what people here type in their messages.

If the OP wants to retract the statement that a 90%+ lockstep is occurring with one gender or another, that would be fine.

It's not a matter of me being too literal. Again, I'm taking people at their word that they type what they believe. If that person types something factually inaccurate, I don't see the problem in asking for a clarification or correcting the record.

It matters because we're talking about a percentage difference that is quite large here, not some inconsequential difference.

[EFerrari]

99. The OP never said 90%+. You did. The OP said

that the same (principle) held for gender and that is correct.

[hiaasenrocks]

107. Uhhh....

The OP said: "I'm standing by my black neighbors, who voted 90% for Barack Obama."

And I'm also going by the exit polling from PA.

Nice try.

[Barack_America]

123. She is referring to this post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5647064&mesg_id=5647193

The one where you claimed that I said that 90% of women were voting for Hillary, which I did not, but never mind that.

Sorry but I'm not going to explain why I said something that I never said in the first place.

[hiaasenrocks]

126. My post was about lockstep voting.

You responded with: "Same with gender."

That's a lie.

And I never said anything about Hillary.

[jettison]

334. Again?

You're selling, but no one is buying.

[EFerrari]

148. Right. Now read my post again. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

398. working class whites are a DEMOGRAPHIC group, as specified. 75% for Clinton

And half of these Dems would NOT vote for a black man EVER, as polled.

[Ignis]

381. You're being disingenuous (at best).

I go by what people here type in their messages.

If the OP wants to retract the statement that a 90%+ lockstep is occurring with one gender or another, that would be fine.

It's not a matter of me being too literal. Again, I'm taking people at their word that they type what they believe. If that person types something factually inaccurate, I don't see the problem in asking for a clarification or correcting the record.

The problem is that the OP didn't say what you quote above.

So you did not, in fact, "go by what people here type in their messages."

Please try again.

[Barack_America]

95. Then I guess you disagree with this Clinton supporter....

Who believes that women will vote for Hillary "lockstep".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5647064&mesg_id=5647408

You've not seen this sentiment repeated time and time again on DU?

:shrug:

[hiaasenrocks]

103. I'm not asking you to cite a DU'ers prediction.

We have the numbers on the 90%+ voting in lockstep.

Can you cite the numbers that cause you to think it's the "same with gender"?

[jettison]

332. "just curious"

It's a snarky little comment. You're not "just curious" at all. You have an agenda and a point to make it. Just make it instead of trying to bate anyone into falling for the crap.

[Leopolds Ghost]

397. You're ignoring the question again. Should Obama brag about maybe the first black president? y/n?

[NashVegas]

143. Obama Talks About His Heritage All The Time

[EFerrari]

147. Which is different than the appeal Clinton makes. n/t

[Chisox08]

316. You do realize that blacks vote 90% democratic

No other group votes for any party like that. If the Super Delagates were to over turn the will of the people a lot of people in my community will feel that it was stolen from him. Obama has done something that no other politicain has ever done he has gotten the Blacks and the 18-30 year olds to come out in record numbers.

[jettison]

331. And maybe you can make the same post that no one

gives a damn about 4 different times. We hear you buddy... it's just that no one cares about what you're saying.

[kwenu]

89. Wow! I definitely noticed that too. She said it with no hesitation about being sexist.

[LisaL]

112. Kerry had no problem he wants Obama for president because

Obama is a black man.

[kwenu]

118. A Black man with remarkable intelligence, talent, a plan AND the ability to communicate a message.

[aquart]

373. CHANGE! HOPE! YES WE CAN!

Suddenly a purple dinosaur pops into my mind.

[redqueen]

92. ...

:applause:

[LisaL]

109. Maybe cause he would be just repeating Kerry.

[Leopolds Ghost]

399. And? Is there something wrong with what Kerry said?

Answer the QUESTION!!

[eleny]

127. One time I saw Obama make this comment....

He said one time that if America were to elect him president, that the country would never see itself in the same way again.

That was the closest I ever saw him directly approach the issue of race. For all I know, he meant something more along the lines of the kind of campaign he was running. But I took it as touching on race. It's stayed with me all these long months and I took it as very positive. We will have taken a quantum leap. I got happy chills when he said it.

I hope you don't have the need to sit out the general election.

[northzax]

164. you missed his race speech?

you know "best race speech since Dr. King" and all that?

[Leopolds Ghost]

400. Note that nobody minded calling a speech about Rev. Wright a "race speech"

Because it's Wright's blackness, the effrontery of a black man saying
those things in a black preacher tone of voice, that is the real issue
here, not the substance of those remarks.

It's perfectly OK for McCain to embrace Hagee for making similar remarks.

[northzax]

418. only a small portion of the speech was actually about Wright

you have read it, right? it was totally a race speech.

and by the way, we're talking about the Democratic primary here, I notice that Senator McCain is a republican, so we'll deal with Hagee later.

[jettison]

329. I've never heard it phrased that way...

... and it's a wonderful turn of phrase. So true.

All that said, I can't agree 100% with your post. A vote against Hillary in the general election is a vote for McSame, and as much as I love to be an idealist, the fate of our country hangs in the balance. My principles are important, but so are the lives of everyone I know.

[aquart]

354. I dunno, honey. Why doesn't he say it?

He was pretty quick to send out surrogates accusing other people of saying it. Like it was an insult.

And didn't you all get upset when you thought the Hillary website had darkened his skin a few shades? WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU THAT HE BE NO DARKER THAN A BROWN PAPER BAG?

[Leopolds Ghost]

401. Clinton supporter compares Obama's skin to "a brown paper bag"

I have yet to say him/her say anything about Hillary's pale,
wrinkled cheeks or Bill's red-necked red skin color. Double
standard? Awaiting another purple lips reference...

[Erin Elizabeth]

52. ROFL! Or maybe, oh, they REALLY REALLY

like Obama!

Could that be a possibility?

Geez, get out some and meet some African-American supporters of Obama. Talk to them. Find out why they're for him. They'll tell you. You'll get educated.

[hiaasenrocks]

58. Yeah, maybe!

:crazy:

[Erin Elizabeth]

Are you saying black people should be told to stop

voting so much for the black candidate?

Are you REALLY saying that?

[hiaasenrocks]

69. LOL. "Are you REALLY saying that?"

No. If I wanted to say that, I would have said it. So perhaps now we can stop trying to put words in people's mouths and attacking the strawman.

Agreed?

Now, back to the question. Do you have an answer?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

232. No one needs to answer your gotcha question. BTW, Carl Hiassen SUCKS!.

Just kidding about Hiassen... :hide:

[jettison]

335. Most annoying poster of the day

And I'm sure you're proud of that. You've just farted in the proverbial elevator and you're making everyone smell it.

[EffieBlack]

205. That's exactly what they're saying

White people voting 99% time after time for white candidates against a black candidate - no problem

Black people voting 90% ONCE for a black candidate after consistently voting for white candidates against black candidates time after time - unacceptable lockstep racial bloc voting.

Got it?

[Leopolds Ghost]

403. Double standards and self-hatred towards fellow members of the working class

It all makes no sense to me.

[aquart]

366. No, dear.

Just acknowledging that they've made a racist decision. Which you are applauding. Now, I can understand why they are doing it. I also understand that black women are the ones who have the hardest decision because of two competing interests.

But calling whites racist in this election for NOT voting for Obama, and applauding blacks who are giving the vote to him SOLELY because of his appropriately brown paper bag color...makes you a wee bit of a hypocritical fool. Which is your right, of course.

Just as it's my right to laugh at it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

405. You seem to be mocking Obama's skin color... do you secretly believe he would get nowhere

if he weren't "whiter" than your average black man?

If so, you might actually be right, because most Americans
insinctively gauge a man's intellect by a) accent and
b) the darkness of his skin. So they consistently vote for
the "high yellow" candidate (who just so happens to be more
affluent) over the dark-skinned candidate in race after race
in urban areas.

It all sound like one of those plantation owners who mused about
the "dangerous intellectual and physical superiority of mulattoes."
Like Thomas Jefferson. :-(

[Barack_America]

84. What are you suggesting here?

It sounds like you're suggesting that black people are only able to gauge a politician based on anything other than skin color. It sounds like you are saying that African Americans are not politically aware.

I think you need to explain this.

[hiaasenrocks]

96. You're demanding an explanation after ignoring requests for clarification. Nice work.

But I'll answer you anyway. I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. In fact, you cited the lockstep voting in your OP.

In any case, if you'd care to explain your response (re: "same with gender") above, that would be great!

[Barack_America]

116. No, I suggested voting in agreement.

I suggested voting out of party loyalty.

I suggested voting out of a common experience, as Hillary herself suggested last night when she was talking about having a woman in the White House.

Obama's humble beginnings and his time spent working on the streets of Chicago have as much to do with his black support as does his skin color. If it were his skin color alone, he would have begun the primary season leading Clinton in the black vote, which he did not. It's his narrative that appeals to black voters, not just his race.

Can the same be said of women and their support of Hillary. Do strong women out there really want the first female President to be piggybacked into office by her husband? Or are they so desperate to have a woman in the White House that they'll take it? What about her narrative makes her THE choice for the first female President?

[hiaasenrocks]

124. The only problem with your explanation is that I find it hard

to believe that you'd give the same deference to any other group (race, gender, you pick one) that voted in 90%+ lockstep.

And spare me the "humble beginnings" bullshit. He went to the most exclusive prep school in Hawaii, then on to the Ivy League. Common experience with the majority of blacks who have been trampled on in this country for a few hundred years? Absolutely not. Obama has led a quite privileged life, by comparison.

[Barack_America]

131. Um...

As a child, he lived off of food stamps after he and his mother were abandoned by his father. That certainly resonates with African Americans living in poverty in, for example, my neighborhood. Again, just because the margin is high, does NOT mean that it is "lockstep" voting. But you're welcome to come to West Philly, talk to folks about Obama and find this out for yourself, if you'd like.

BTW, what the hell is wrong with 90% of people agreeing on Democratic candidate?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

230. Did you have a problem when A/A voters went 90% for Bill Clinton?

WTF are you babbling about?

[jettison]

336. gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha

Do you realize how much everyone on this board truly hates your gotcha tactics? Quit bating. If you have a point, then make your fucking point like a man and quit relying on trying to trick eveyone into your point of view. It's rude, arrogant, and will only win you enemies. If you point is to try to sway someone over to your point of view, attempting to belittle them is not going to get the job done.

[EffieBlack]

441. White people vote in lockstep all the time -they consistently vote in blocs AGAINST black candidates

You may not have noticed because they have more white candidates to choose from and they spread their votes out among them. But until this year, whites have generally voted 99% for white candidates when black candidates are running.

But, for some reason, no one calls THAT bloc voting. Apparently it's assumed that there are good, non-racial reasons for white people to vote for white candidates against black candidates. Yet, when black voters vote for a black candidate against a white candidate, not only is that vote immediately suspect, certain white people have absolutely NO qualms about insulting those black voters, implying they're stupid, blindly voting against their interests and, more often than not, racist.

As other posters have pointed out, the default in the country is white. White is the norm and anything that deviates from that is out-of-line. It never occurs to these folks that MAYBE it is the BLACK voters who are voting logically and rationally and the WHITE voters who are voting for candidates for the wrong reasons? Maybe there is good reason for 90% of black voters to vote for Barack Obama and it is the white voters who are confused, blind, and voting against their interests.

Of course, I bet that never occurred to anyone . . .

[EffieBlack]

208. If it were skin color alone, Al Sharpton would have gotten 90+% instead of less than 20%

of the black vote. And Doug Wilder would have goten 90+% of the black vote instead of less than 10%. And Alan Keyes and Carol Moseley-Braun.

But no, black voters have consistently voted overwhelmingly for white candidates, even when black candidates were running. So obviously the fact that 90% of black voters are voting for Obama this time around must be for reasons other than his race. Unless anyone has proof that black people, who have very discerningly voted their interests over their race year after year suddenly got struck stupid this year and made a complete about-face in their voting habits.

The bottom line: some people think that black voting strength is fine when it's targeted toward the benefit of white candidates, but are absolutely scared to death of it when it appears it might help elect a black man.

The bigotry and racial fear is being smoked out and exposed for exactly what it is . . .

[rateyes]

292. Excellent post. nt

[jettison]

338. He is calling black voters both racist and stupid

That is the implication, and it's quite insulting... almost as insulting as the tone of his posts and the gotcha bullshit he keeps trying to lay on everyone.

[aquart]

371. And they will convince me that they'd vote for him if he were Chinese?

Or white? Or Apache?

LOL! Sure, cookie.

Hey, you wanna defend racism, you go ahead.

[Leopolds Ghost]

406. "I don't care if he's purple (but it matters to some)"

[Barack_America]

419. They don't seem to understand that this is about overturning an election...

...in order to pander to that "some" the poster speaks of. Particularly when that "some" has turned against the party time and time again.

This is about telling your most loyal voters that the winning candidate cannot be chosen simply because he happens to look like them.

I wouldn't think this would be so hard to decipher, but it certainly seems to be a difficult point for "some" people to master.

[Spider Jerusalem]

139. African-Americans have voted for the Democratic candidate in presidential elections...

at a proportion of 80-90% for quite a while now. They have been the most consistent and reliable part of the Democratic coalition over the past 40+ years. Is there a problem when members of one ethnic group vote consistently at 80-90% for one political party?

[EffieBlack]

210. No, because they were voting for white people, so that was ok.

But harnessing their voting power to help elect a black man - bad.

[Danger Mouse]

211. the hoods are coming off, aren't they?

:puke:

[aquart]

348. Black racism is politically correct, is it?

You must be so proud. Would you really be voting for him if he were, say, five shades darker or half-Chinese? Come on, lie and say you would.

What flaming brass balls of self-congratulation. YOU ARE ABOVE RACISM! Obama supporters are good and pure!

And who didn't know that you would be hurling the racism accusation every step of the way?

But you're uniters not dividers. Just like your messiah Barry.

[Barack_America]

363. Just like white racism is okay as long as you call it "electability"?

Let me get this straight:

Saying "let's put a black man in the White House" = bad

Saying "let's put a woman in the White House" = good

That's pretty much your take?

[no1dolo]

427. call it "electability" .... good observation

[Leopolds Ghost]

407. I didn't know black racism was such a big issue in the Midwest. Is that why blacks aren't welcome

In white ethnic urban enclaves?

[Danger Mouse]

428. Hahaha, all you EVER do is hurl globs of shit, so your righteous indignation

just makes you look like the hypocrite you are.

on edit: in addition, obama's support wasn't very strong among blacks until SC. He's won them over on his merits, and Clinton has lost them on her insensitivity towards them.

[PoliticalAmazon]

236. Problem: Hillary felt ENTITLED to their votes and has been a hateful bitch....

...when they refuse to simply do her bidding and vote for her.

Also, you KNOW Bill Clinton had big plans to parade around in Harlem and other African-American communities, assuming that the voters would throng to touch his robes.

Didn't work out that way for Bill, and he is quite jealous over it.

[Barack_America]

264. .

"has been a hateful bitch..."

I really shouldn't, but... :rofl:

I love your bluntness.

And by the way, my white-male, typical Midwestern voter boyfriend completely agrees with you.

[aquart]

374. Do you have any idea how insane you sound?

How utterly distorted the image in your mind is? You are truly frightening to the rest of us who aren't using your Hitler Youth filter.

[Barb in Atl]

415. Calling Hillary Clinton a name is insane, while...

..you saying that black folks vote for Obama merely for his complexion - not light, not too dark - that's NOT insane?

But just for fun, did it ever occur to you that maybe some folks that vote for Obama appreciate his calm, his ability to stay in the moment when he has poo flying at him from every direction and every sink? Has it occurred to you that people of every ethnicity may appreciate the fact that Obama isn't out there trying to slime his democratic opponent? That he's trying to actually bring a new kind of campaigning to the fore?

You can post till your little pinnews are raw and bloody, but the fact is that the Obama campaign has not been nearly, even remotely, as down low dirty as the Clinton campaign.

Coworker of mine said that on Hardball they talked about another Clinton ad up in Indiana - something about a vote while he was in the state senate in Illinois about gangs - anyone else heard of this?

Oh, and you Aquart? That's the last time I bother.

[Danger Mouse]

206. waaah, black racism! black racism!

blacks have consistently been very loyal dem supporters.

[Ice-9]

244. Question

Why do you assume that black men and women are voting in lockstep just because 90% of them support Senator Obama? Why aren't white people voting in lockstep because fewer than 90% of them support him? In light of Obama's relative appeal, I'm a little troubled that only ~40% of white Democrats support him. I can certainly see the other side of the issue, but if I had to put money on it I'd bet that white voters' bias against black candidates outweighs black voters' bias in favor of them.

Put another way, you seem to assume that he's a "40% candidate" who's getting an unnatural advantage because a lot of black people like black candidates. Have you considered the possibility that he's really a "90% candidate" who's getting an unnatural disadvantage because a lot of white people don't like black candidates?

:shrug:

[Hippo_Tron]

259. I think it's less about racism and more about loyalty to the Clintons

Most racist whites vote Republican. Obama is getting 9-1 black votes because he is black no doubt about it. He is getting less than 40% of white votes because Hillary Clinton has a very loyal following. Hillary would probably win blacks in similar numbers that she's winning whites if Obama were white.

Likewise, if Hillary Clinton were Hillary Rodham, Obama would be doing much better with the white vote.

[jettison]

342. Exactly

And if he would have just made that point to begin with instead of playing his arrogant little gotcha game, we might have actually had some reasonable discourse about the subject.

[aquart]

People vote their own. That's what's "natural."

That's why a VEEP candidate is chosen, usually, from an opposite area and background than the POTUS candidate, to bring in those areas. That's why Obama is not Chinese-American. He's expected to deliver the votes that identify with him. And he is.

Once the black constituency saw that whites would vote for this candidate, they got on board. The voting records and history of Obama and Clinton are pretty much even. But there is obviously still far more discrimination against women in power than black men in power. That's what you're seeing. Women raised in a patriarchal society are still more willing to vote for male interests than female interests. For an extreme example, look at the women in the polygamy case. So Obama gets 90% of the black vote and Clinton doesn't get 90% of the female vote.

All the rest is commentary.

[Leopolds Ghost]

408. So sexism is more important than racism, and racist women can thus be excused?

[Ice-9]

437. ?

People vote their own. That's what's "natural."

So you're saying that 55% of white people are voting for a white candidate (Senator Clinton) just because they "vote their own"? Or do you think only black people vote their own?

Women raised in a patriarchal society are still more willing to vote for male interests than female interests.

But if women are as conditioned as you claim, wouldn't it make more sense for Hillary Clinton to just drop out? After all, by your logic, women will be more inclined (all other things being equal) to vote for a man than a woman. So if you wanted to advance women's interests, wouldn't it make more sense to run a man who supported women's interests than a woman who supported women's interests? The man, by your logic, would be more electable and could them implement the same policies that the woman would have implemented. But Senator Obama supports women's interests and seems willing to implement policies in furtherance of those interests. So that would suggest that women should vote for . . . .

[Hippo_Tron]

257. You think it's a problem that blacks voted 9-1 for Kerry over Bush?

Because I certainly don't.

[kdpeters]

278. Exactly.

When one demographic votes in lockstep (over 90%) there is definitely a race problem in society.

And when another demographic votes very much divided (close to 50/50) there is definitely NOT a sexism problem in society -- or at least by your logic that is what one should conclude.

Am I on the right track here?

[Eric Condon]

319. Yeah, and the Clintons are part of that "race problem."

They're the ones who have completely insulted black voters and taken them for granted since this campaign started. The utter and total arrogance of Bill to make the Jesse Jackson comment was founded in his honest belief that since he was "the first black president," he has bulletproof credibility with the black community, and therefore he can say absolutely ridiculous, transparently insulting, race-baiting shit and no one is going to call him on it.

If 90% of black voters are voting for Obama, maybe it has less to do with the fact that he's black and more to do with the fact that the Clintons have completely thrown them under the bus.

Sure, the Clintons had great rapport with the black community all through the 90s. But at the end of his presidency, my hunch is that a LOT of black voters weren't much better off than they were eight years earlier. They're tired of being taken for granted by the party establishment and I don't blame them - I'm white, but as a loyal, progressive Dem, I've felt pretty taken for granted myself in the last few years. Not anymore, thanks to Obama, who actually cares about fighting for progressive causes, not just his own political ambition.

[Leopolds Ghost]

391. You mean the working class whites, right? (75%)

[Leopolds Ghost]

392. Or perhaps you mean black people are a problem (or Jewish when they voted 90% for Gore/Lieberman)

Or Irish people voting 80% for Kennedy, those people are such a problem
to society, aren't they.

Especially when they now vote 75% for Clinton/McCain to prove
they aren't part of the working class coalition anymore.

They are offended when people ascribe working class values to them.

They are MIDDLE class, dammit! To be distinguished from those grubby, non-white-skin privilege working class folks their ancestors were.

But when their parents voted for Kennedy, that's not racism that's PRIDE!

[ClayZ]

4. K and R

[juajen]

5. Stupid is as stupid does.

NT

[EFerrari]

7. Welcome to my ignore list!

[Bigleaf]

16. Exactly why Hillary is where she is today. Bye-bye!

[goletian]

39. you definitely do. - nt

[Kittycat]

54. Look at that... Another bigoted/racist comment.

So now AAs, and those that support them are stupid?

That HRC bus must be climbing a mountain of democrats, that it's thrown under there over the past couple of months.

[ampad]

237. Oh yea

But these are the same people crying sexism every time their lying candidate gets caught up. These are the same people that claim racism is no big deal yet the idiots are constantly spreading racism such as the idiot with the "stupid comment." No, we are not stupid now and we were not stupid in the 90's when we voted overwhelmingly for the liar under oath Bill. We stood by the Clintons when they needed us but now we want a change and because of that we are stupid. Yea I looked at Obama and said well he kind of looks like me so I'll vote for him, whatever. This is the mindset of many Hillary supporters which is why she is winning that 8% that say they will never vote for a black man;then they want to call us stupid. I wonder what the percentage of black people who say they would never vote for a woman? I bet it isn't as high as 8%. History will tell you that the number of blacks that would not vote for a white candidate is pretty much null.

The most ignorant of Hillary's base is making her look like a clown (not that she isn't doing a good job of it herself) and if they think that for one moment black people will have her back if this thing goes sour they are wrong. No black people are not stupid. It scares some of the Hillary and McCain bigot supporters to see black people unified in such numbers; there is no stupidity there just their ignorance and fear.

[Danger Mouse]

207. racist is as racist does.

[ampad]

229. So now black people are stupid

Well I wouldn't expect much from you, look at your candidate. You are a racist piece of crap.

Sincerely,
a black woman who proudly supports Obama.

[rhett o rick]

271. Are u in the third grade? and by-the-way putting NT inside the thread defeats the purpose. Duh. nm

[rateyes]

285. As you just proved with your stupid post. nt

[rateyes]

288. What is the point of putting "NT" in the message area?

It's supposed to be in the subject area so that people don't have to scroll down and see that there is no text in the message area.

That really was a stupid thing to do.

[jettison]

344. Are you talking about yourself? There is no reference in your post.

[racaulk]

432. .

[LakeSamish706]

6. I am a white person that stands solidly behind you... There is no way in hell I would...

stand for that and continue to vote Democratic....

[countingbluecars]

8. Hillary can't win

without the black and the youth vote. I hope the Superdelegates realize that.

[ScarletSniper]

BINGO!

[Orangepeel]

318. They do. They know THEY can't get relected without it

well, they can't get relected without the African American vote. The youth vote would be a nice bonus, since Obama is the rare candidate who seems to be able to get them to turn out.

[IndianaJones]

9. if the Democratic party nominates a man that covets the votes of bigots...

over support for the plight of an oppressed minority, I will not vote for him.

[ieoeja]

78. Agreed.

The primary reason I support Obama is because he, unlike Hillary and every other presidential candidate, argues in favor of Gay and Atheist rights in front of hostile audiences.

The others are happy to go in front of pro-Gay and pro-Atheist groups and state their support. But put them in front of an anti-Gay or anti-Atheist crowd and mums the word on these subjects.

So I support the candidate who will actually fight for our rights, not just cheer us on in relative secret.

[quakerboy]

228. Yeah. Thats only acceptable in a Woman.

or was that not the point you hoped to make?

[goclark]

241. Oh my, someone is visiting from another website nt

[brentspeak]

10. Uh, who said that the party was going to "deny" him the election for any reason?

What alternative universe are you speaking about?

[Barack_America]

47. The alternate universe that we currently live in...

Where superdelegates are toying with the idea of ignoring the will of the people as expressed by the pledged delegates (which is the only way to address this will in a race including caucuses).

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

11. I feel like I have been lying under that bus for a long time.

Maybe I'm a communist, or at the very least a socialist.

[Barack_America]

17. Well then shove over...

It's getting crowded under here!

;)

[enid602]

13. good

Then you deserve McCain. Lucky Jeff Davis isn't running.

[SunsetDreams]

27. who says it will be McCain?

McCain's party is split, it could be an independent who wins.

[dflprincess]

341. Really unlikely with the electoral college system

But, hey, a President McCain would be so much better for minorities and women. Just look how he voted against equal pay yesterday - with McCain we could wind up with a Supreme Court that has enough votes to completely overturn all Civil Rights. And if enough of you stay home on election day we can wind up with a Republican Congress again and won't that be fun?

Grow up kids. I can't stand either Clinton or Obama but I'm voting for the nominee because we can't risk four more years of Republican rule. Either Democrat is, at worse, marginally better than McCain.

[Mags]

14. I will do the same if they throw Women under the bus.

[Barack_America]

33. Let me know when women become a bedrock of Democratic support.

Last I checked, we predominantly voted to reelect Bush in 2004.

African Americans, on the other hand, voted 88% for Kerry, a candidate they doubtfully felt any connection with whatsoever. If you are ever interested in the definition of "party loyalty" that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Mags]

go for it. If you think he can do without the Women's vote.

You just nailed it for me. It's all about you.

[Erin Elizabeth]

56. LOL you do realize that loads of women have voted for him,

don't you?

[Mags]

59. not the majority, and not the typical bitter white women.

[Erin Elizabeth]

61. I'm a bitter white woman.

I love Obama. He HAS the woman's vote. As a Hillary supporter pointed out above, Hillary doesn't have a majority of the female vote. And she thought she would.

[Mags]

68. get real.

[Erin Elizabeth]

150. That's it? Get real? I'm as real as I can get,

living and breathing.

[Danger Mouse]

209. don't bother with mags, it's impossible to have rational discourse with her.

:hi:

[Erin Elizabeth]

247. Or even discourse, apparently.

:hi:

[Kittycat]

67. I'm a woman, and I don't know any woman IRL that supports CLinton

We all agree that she's divisive and the wrong woman. The women I know, strongly support Obama. Sure we'd love to see a woman elected, but would rather sit support the right candidate vs a vagina.

[redqueen]

102. I knew one that did. She even voted for Hillary in CA.

She wishes she hadn't voted for her now, though.

[Erin Elizabeth]

151. Come to think of it, I don't either.

The only women I know who support Hillary are on the internet.

[Bette Noir]

346. I know one woman who supports Clinton.

She's a Republican. I'll vote for a woman for President when a liberal woman runs.

[Barack_America]

378. Hear hear!

And one that isn't a fucking hawk!

And one that doesn't throw self-made women leaders under the bus!

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411366/1734232

[EffieBlack]

215. So true

I've been amazed to hear Chris Matthews repeatedly blow his dog whistle, without embarrassment or apparent awareness of the irony, that white blue collar voters ask two questions about a candidate before deciding to support them: 1) "is he like us?" (sometimes he says "is he one of us?"); and 2) "is he ok?"

So it's just fine for white voters to vote for candidates who are "like them" or "one of them" but when black voters vote for someone who is like them, their votes are suspect and should be discounted as racial bloc voting.

Absolutely incredible.

[Leopolds Ghost]

410. (crickets) from the "black voters are racist" crowd nt

[democrattotheend]

45. If Clinton were ahead in pledged delegates and the nomination given to Obama, you'd have a point

[Eric Condon]

325. The only one throwing Women under the bus is Hillary.

If she gets her way, McCrazed will be the nominee, and he'll get Supreme Court nominations. And even though she thinks she can just run again in 2012, those SC picks can't be undone. She won't win then either, because most of the country (including half of her own party) despises her and will never vote for her.

[jettison]

351. A Republican's wet dream

For the Hillary supporters that say they won't vote for Obama, and for the Obama supporters that won't vote for Hillary, I'd like you to know that you're every Republicans wet dream. They are literally beaming with pride and admiration for you since you "came to your senses".

My father if a Freeper through and through, and he's not only laughing at the Democrats that are jumping ship from their party, he's literally been on some kind of bizarre high for the last three months, watching each side tare each other apart. You make my father a happy Republican with a shit-eating grin. Congratulations! <you dumbasses>

[nonobadfish]

15. I'm with you.

[SunsetDreams]

18. This white woman will be doing the same!

[livetohike]

19. I agree with you. This is an issue

I overheard several people at my polls (I was working them)say they would never vote for a black person (their words) and that the Democrats "didn't have much to choose from". This is a 65% Registered Republican rural area.

Meanwhile, the Republican side has McCain and they aren't happy with him either.

If people were truthful, at least in PA, I'm sure many people would post that they heard those words before. Even Governor Rendell said many Pennsylvanians wouldn't vote for a black man.

Sad. Sad. Sad.

[brentspeak]

28. But the comments you overheard aren't related to the OP

The OP is claiming outrage over a make-believe scenario of "the party" somehow denying Obama the nomination because he's a black man.

[livetohike]

64. They most certainly are related

The OP is stating that the party may deny Obama the nomination because he can't attract those lower income white voters (many who won't vote for him because he is black). If you can't vote for someone because of their skin color, that makes you a racist.

I experienced racist comments from some of the white voters in my district. How is that not related??

[brentspeak]

Good grief

:eyes:

Are those particular white voters in your district the Democratic party leadership?

[livetohike]

88. My turn to say "Good Grief"

What piece of this puzzle do you not understand?

[PoliticalAmazon]

238. That is the case the Clintons are building, and the DNC aren't stopping them. ...

...you do the math.

[SeaLyons]

21. This is not a

campaign for black people to choose the President. The whole country is choosing a President. Let's have respect for everyone involved. Whites that don't vote for Obama are not necessarily doing it because they are racist. That's just not true.

[Erin Elizabeth]

30. Just like women who aren't voting for Hillary aren't sexist, right?

Yet I was called sexist three times just yesterday by a Hillary supporter!

[democrattotheend]

37. True for most whites, but there are definitely some who just refuse to vote for a black man

When I was canvassing South Philly yesterday, a young Italian guy who was doing roof repairs stopped me and asked what I was doing, and I got into a lengthy conversation with him about Barack. He said he did not like any of the candidates and did not plan to vote today, but I thought I had made progress convincing him to go out and vote for Barack. But when I asked him at the end of the conversation, he thought about it for a minute, then said point blank that he just could not bring himself to vote for a black man. He knew that Obama was only half black, and claimed not to be racist, but he said "don't you think we give black people enough for free in this country?" and said that he just couldn't vote for a black candidate. He claimed his grandmother would disown him if he did. Kind of an eye-opener for me, and really depressing.

[SeaLyons]

62. Racism does exist..

[ScarletSniper]

41. Well, not all whites, but some are not voting for him because he is black..thems the facts

[SeaLyons]

65. I'll agree with that

[brentspeak]

70. Anyone who wouldn't vote for Obama because he's black (or rather, half-black)

is an idiot and a racist.

However, anyone who does vote for Obama because he's black is an idiot. Not racist, but an idiot, nonetheless. To cast one's vote according to a candidate's skin color/gender/religion is an embarrassment.

[ScarletSniper]

75. Welcome to American politics!!!

[galaxy21]

76. I think blacks vote for him PARTLY because of his race

But, as has been mentioned, he's a great candidate anyway.

[cyndensco]

159. It bothers me seeing "...blacks vote for him partly..."

and it comes from some people who seem, or at least seem to be trying, to get it. Grouping ALL blacks together and trying to speak for them/us is worse than being called the "typical white person". At least THAT allows for those who are atypical.

[galaxy21]

77. I think blacks vote for him PARTLY because of his race

But, as has been mentioned, he's a great candidate anyway.

[Phillycat]

171. Some aren't voting for him because they don't like his smile.

Some aren't voting for Hillary because they dislike blonde hair.

Some aren't voting for Obama because the voices tell them not to.

Some aren't voting for Hillary because she's "shrill".

There are assholes and crazies in both camps. They still each get a vote.

[EffieBlack]

217. People have all sorts of reasons to vote for people - most of which have nothing to do with

their objective qualifications. Are they from their state or part of the country. Does he seem to care about people like them. Do they like his wife. Do they like the school they attended. Does he appear "presidential?" Is he good looking. Did my favorite basketball player/television star/politician support her? Does he like the kind of music I like.Does she do shots in a bar like a regular person. Can he bowl. I could fill up pages of subjective criteria that people consider when voting for president.

Why, all of a sudden, is it wrong to consider their race - especially when race is applied as a positive factor? Sure, if we'd had 2 or 3 black presidents in the past, the fact that a candidate is black would not mean anything. But one would have to be completely ignorant not to understand what it would mean for this country to elect a black president. That's not racist, it's not stupid, it's perfectly understandable. That doesn't mean that black people are voting for him BECAUSE he's black (obviously, we don't vote for candidates just because they're black as evidenced by the fact that Al Sharpton, Doug Wilder, Carol Moseley-Braun and Alan Keyes never got more than a small percentage of the black vote). But just as, according to Chris Matthews, white blue collar voters want to support someone who "is one of them," black voters may be very glad to vote for someone who they feel is very qualified AND who is like them.

[Carni]

302. Best post on this thread!

Thank God someone with some common sense!

[Broadslidin]

315. "Voices". So true of racists....

First, I had a good laugh
and then realizing,
how schizoid :crazy: racists truly are.

[Raineyb]

114. Wasn't that the point of the OP?

That the Democratic party should have respect for the will of its members by not overturning the will of the people? You know the folks who went out and voted?

But according to some apparently it's okay to overturn the will of certain voters in the Democratic party because they'll vote for HRC anyway.

I wouldn't bet the White House on that assumption.

Oh BTW consider this OP Rec'd!

Regards

[Carni]

304. Perhaps you should ask FL and MI voters that question

I note that it is OK for the voters to be ignored...as long as those ignored, voted by and large for Hillary as is the case in Florida.

EVERY vote should be counted not just those advantageous to your personal candidate.

[Raineyb]

434. I would suggest that the voters of FL and MI take that up with their state representatives

Since it is the state representatives in FL and MI who disenfranchised the voters of both these states by deliberately moving the primary date to a date earlier than the rules allowed.

Or do you think the rules only apply when they benefit your chosen candidate?

Regards

[stillcool]

192. No shit!

we are all choosing a President. This has nothing to do with "Black" people picking the President, but I'm sure there are some that believe that. Whites that don't vote for Obama are not necessarily racist, but many are. The media, for some reason, has interjected race into this campaign from the beginning, making sure to wake up any dormant sentiment of racism. I am shocked that Obama is where he is. It says a lot for our country.

[PoliticalAmazon]

242. Agreed, but the Clintons are building a case for her electability based on ....

...the idea that the majority of white people won't vote for Obama.

This has to be so hurtful to African-Americans. It is hurtful to me, and I am pretty much Teutonic stock.

The DNC's complicity in this is disgusting. They have not once stood up for African-American voters insulted by the Clintons, nor have they stood up for ANY Obama supporters insulted by the Clintons.

I think the DNC should consider how powerful they would be if the Obama supporters decided that, since they mean so little to the DNC, to keep the Clintons happy by allowing them to throw us under the bus in their desperate attempt to reclaim the White House.

I think it's clear by now that not all Democrats are doormats, and the DNC may find themself with a few million less voters if they don't grow a spine and tell the Clintons to freaking knock it off.

[Barack_America]

309. Yes. Thank you.

That is exactly how I feel.

What's more, what if the groups who have fought for Obama, only to be thrown under the bus by the Democratic party, up and leave.

What if African Americans, young voters, educated whites and the grassroots take Howard Dean, get the fuck out and leave the rotting carcass of the Democratic party to the DLC? Let them engage in their perpetual struggle with the GOP over ignorant whites, we're out.

[jettison]

353. Agreed 100%

There will always be racists though, on either side of the fence. It's human nature for people to fear those they don't understand and who aren't like them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

412. self-delete n/t

[Adelante]

22. Move over nt

[cd3dem]

23. more playing the race card by Obamanites!

If Obama were white, he would have never ran... what this race is about is Obama running on being a black man who transcends race unless anyone brings it up!

[EFerrari]

32. Another poster who can't tell the difference between playing a "card"

and sticking to your values. Sad.

[cd3dem]

177. Obama is a race card player and an opportunist!

[EFerrari]

182. He must be a race card player. He's BLACK!

And, he's an opportunist! He's a SUCCESSFUL BLACK MAN WHO THINKS AND IS APPEALING AND HAS RUN CIRCLES AROUND CLINTON!

:wow::wow::wow:

:rofl:

[EffieBlack]

218. Who does he think he IS, thinking he can run for president after less than one term

in the Senate? Only white men like John Edwards can do that.

[jettison]

359. Is there such thing as a polotician who isn't an opportunist?

Honestly, answer that question.

[SunsetDreams]

36. not hardly....if she steals it, there won't be any thing about playing the race card

This white woman, and I imagine other whites who have voted for Obama will see it for what it is. A protest to a stolen election!

[cd3dem]

176. actually when I look at the voter fraud at caucuses in my state and others...

I see a different picture... the caucus states go to Obama because you don't have to register or sign in... and in my state if you wish you could vote in multiple precincts and never get caught! a good number of voters could not be verified after the fact... stories of people being bussed in and out... stories of people allowing their underage kids to put Obama ballots in the box... the list goes on!

[EFerrari]

184. OMIGOD! HE STOLE IOWA!

:wow:

[cd3dem]

198. I heard people from Illinois were bussed in to caucus in Iowa

[Barack_America]

221. Really, because I know many people who worked for the campaign in Iowa...

And, even though they literally lived in Iowa for months before the caucus, were strictly forbidden by the campaign to caucus.

So I'll take my numerous first-hand accounts over your rumors any day.

[jettison]

361. stories

A black man can possibly be doing well on his own merits. He must be cheating!

You, my friend, are a racist. There is no way I can spin this any other way.

[jettison]

356. You just said that he is only doing well because he's black...

...and in the same post you accuse him of playing the race card? WTF are you smoking? I want some.

[Bette Noir]

360. If he were white,

Obama would be Jack Kennedy, only without the rum-running dad. He's a heck of a candidate, in any color.

[Beer Snob-50]

24. i agree that obama is the better candidate

however history has shown that every vote can count in the general election and you not pulling the lever for the democratic candidate co;uld mean four more years of the same shit we have had the last eight. and this is bad for blacks, whites, and everyone else in between.

[Aloha Spirit]

25. I don't agree with all your points, but the general sentiment: Yes. If a pledged delegate majority

and popular vote majority is overridden by what Steny Hoyer and others consider Clinton's electability, I will gladly be the speedbump on that road.

[Erin Elizabeth]

26. A-fucking-men.

As the only white delegate to Obama in my precinct and one of only a handful of white delegates to Obama in my district, I say hell yeah.

I'm standing with my African-American neighbors, friends, and co-workers, too.

[DJ13]

29. Got room under there for another white guy?

:toast:

[quiet.american]

31. Well said. nt

[FrenchieCat]

34. I'm Black, and the wheel is on my heart.....crushing it with the weight of those

willing to get on the Hillary bus and is advising that I will "get over it".

My response: No I won't.

[hiaasenrocks]

42. Hey, at least you're not being overly dramatic about it.... n/t

[ekwhite]

291. Overly dramatic

What a shame we are a bunch of drama queens. The fact is, if Barack Obama comes to the end of the primary season with the most pledged delegates, he should be the nominee, period. The will of the voters should not be overturned, except in exceptional circumstances. His running against a Clinton does not count as exceptional circumstances, in my book.

[ScarletSniper]

49. "My response: No I won't."

Neither will I.

Bet on it.

[ekwhite]

293. I won't get over it either

I am a white Southern male, and I won't get over it if the Democratic party throws black voters under the bus. I might have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary Clinton (I probably won't have to, since I live in California), but the Democratic party will not get another penny of my money, and I have donated hundreds of dollars to the Edwards and Obama campaigns. If the Democratic party does something so undemocratic this time, it will be time to form a third party.

[Egnever]

440. Well I am white and I wont have it

Will not! For the past 8 years time and again it has been the CBC that has been the voice of reason in this clusterfuck administration. I have watched time and again while the CBC stood up and did what is right instead of what is the political wisdom of the time.

I will renounce any connection to the democratic party forever if Obama is not the nominee.

I dont like him cause he is black though its his open government policies that give me woodies.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Race is never an issue. White folks tell me so.

[EffieBlack]

219. Race is only an issue when black people mention it.

Otherwise, there WOULD be no race problem in America.

[Nedsdag]

40. If Bill and Hillary truly believe that black Obama supporters will fall for their charms,

they have another thing coming! Do they actually believe African Americans will come back to the fold after all the things they threw at Obama? I. don't. think. so!

The Clinton Plantation days are over!

[ErinBerin84]

44. Kelli Goff had an interesting article in the Huffington Post about this in March

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keli-goff/why-democrats-should-alre_b_91912.html


She makes some interesting points, and regarding the GOP "bottling and selling the resentment that African American voters may get ", the GOP will also do this to resentful women voters if Hillary loses the nomination. The GOP is going to exploit the shit out of these conflicts with the voting blocks.

[galaxy21]

71. why would women be resentful if she didn't get the nomination?

She lost fair and square. The other guy had more delegates and more of the popular vote.

Blacks, however, would be resentful: because Obama won't have lost it fair and square.

[spooky3]

94. Neither one of them can win the required number of delegates. So he has not "won."

Both candidates agreed to the rules (where have we heard that before - maybe from people insisting that the FL and MI voters be disenfranchised because of the actions of party hacks?) and the rules include the minimum number of delegates required to win the nomination and the freedom and RESPONSIBILITY of superdelegates to consider factors OTHER than the number of pledged delegates. That's why the process was established. Whether he has won more of the "popular vote" is a matter of controversy, not fact, because so many of the states used caucuses that weren't necessarily a random sample of the population, and whether you count FL or MI.

As far as this Edwards supporter sees it, the candidates are neck-and-neck and a good case can be made for either. The party will need to do everything it can to make sure it considers all relevant factors and makes the best choice. In the absence of a fair process, people concerned about sexism have just as much of a basis for concern as people concerned about racism.

[EFerrari]

120. They're not neck and neck and she cannot catch up to him.

That's just false.

And, it may be unfortunate but "party hacks" run the state parties. That they screwed over voters in their state in order to make a nickel is not Obama's fault. As I recall, Clinton had no problem with it either UNTIL SHE STARTED LOSING.

[spooky3]

202. That isn't false; it is a matter of perception and opinion and judgment.

If you want to define a term for yourself that candidates must have equal numbers of delegates that do not come from certain states in order to be considered "neck and neck", be my guest. Just don't expect others to define that as The Truth. And the issue for me is not whether Clinton or Obama has a problem with disenfranchising the voters of FL and MI. *I* have a problem with it. Obama's stance is at least as weak and politically motivated as to what he thinks is best for himself, as well as potentially hazardous to whoever is the Democratic nominee in the general, as Clinton's. He gets no stars for integrity on this from me.

[EFerrari]

246. Um, no. It's not a matter of "perception". He is leading

in delegates and in votes. lol

[ErinBerin84]

98. I'm not saying they would be justified in being resentful.

And it pisses me off to no end that some people are not even examining why certain delegates carry more weight than others (their previous allegience to the Democratic party). I was just being diplomatic in saying that the GOP is going to try and exploit the losing candidates' supporters for extra votes. I can guess that there will be some resentment from women from the above poster who claims "I will do the same if they throw Women under the bus."

believe me, I will be pissed off as hell if Obama is screwed out of the nomination despite playing by the rules if he is ahead in delegates and popular vote in the end, and I say that as a woman.

[HooptieWagon]

270. Women voters...

Barely a majority vote Dem. As a group, why should they be considered a loyal voting bloc? AA's, OTOH, have overwhelmingly supported Dem candidates faithfully by huge margins.

[SIMPLYB1980]

46. Self delete.

[Erin Elizabeth]

48. Oh and K&R, gotdammit.

[newmajority]

50. Count this white guy in.

There is no legitimate path to a Hillary nomination, and if the party ignores the people and gives her the prize anyway, we stand to lose far more than just an election.

As if that's not bad enough, given the current state of the world.

[MoJoWorkin]

51. Move over and let this white granny from MO join you.

[sandnsea]

53. It's election theft for me

But it will also be a slap in the fact to African Americans. But I decided a long time ago that was my line in the sand. I just can't go down this road anymore. I can't kid myself that globalization and US occupation in the ME won't happen under Clinton, and that her social plans are going to be any more helpful to low income people than they have for the last 25 years. We need change and if the Dem Party cares more about entrenched power than the people, then they just aren't my party anymore.

[ieoeja]

63. Still needs 85.

He needs to win 85 more delegates to have a majority of pledged delegates. The May 6th primaries will finally give him the majority as there are well more than double that number to be won that day.

He might win that amount in North Carolina alone on that day. But even a small victory in NC and a big loss in Indiana would easily put him over the top.

[totodeinhere]

73. The Dem nominee cannot win without African American support.

And if the nomination is taken away from Obama even though he leads in pledged delegates then a massive number of AA's will withhold their vote from Clinton. That's why the argument that some Clinton supporters throw out that she is more electable amuses me. Without AA support she can't win, period.

[ScarletSniper]

93. You are dead on.

[Bake]

197. And Obama cannot win with only AA support.

Bake

[Barack_America]

200. So it is fortunate that he also has the support of Independents, youth voters and...

highly educated whites.

As for the white "blue collar workers", they're going to have to choose between their economic welfare and their prejudices. That choice is up to them.

[EffieBlack]

220. That's because they - as usual - take the black vote for granted, assuming that

blacks will vote Democratic no matter what - so they treat the black vote as if it's not a swing vote and instead chase around after the angry white man vote.

What they don't realize is that the black vote is just as critical and just as much of a swing vote as is the vote of white blue collar men.

[annie1]

281. If she wins the pop vote, and she makes Bo veep then his support vote, no matter what their race.

[mmonk]

74. Twice is too much.

Let's hope 2000 will be the only year (though there are many that support doing it a second time).

[City Lights]

79. Got room for one more?

:patriot:

[DevonRex]

80. I'm with you. I wonder how many Hillary supporters realize

just how much she and Bill owe to the black voters of this country. Were it not for them, Bill would never have become president and Hillary would never have become a senator. Yet they are the first ones Hillary and Bill threw under the bus at the beginning of this process. It is shameful.

As a democrat, I fully realize just how much the party owes to African American voters. We would be NOWHERE without African American support.

So I will lie down under the bus with AA voters to show my support of THEM and the democratic principles I believe in.

Thank you for this post. It did my heart good.

[taught_me_patience]

82. I will lie down

in protest. I am an asian male and if your scenario plays out, I will never forgive or forget.

[redstate_democrat]

83. Thank you

[knixphan]

85. Kristi1696 for Pres!

Good on ya.

[panAmerican]

146. hear, hear!

[Barack_America]

196. Wow. Just saw this.

Thanks!

:blush:

[DesertFlower]

86. agreed. i would be so disgusted. nt

[spinbaby]

87. Bravo!

I'll be there, too!

[GarbagemanLB]

90. As a young white male I too will lie down.

[Ganja Ninja]

91. There's no way they could nominate Hillary without at the very ...

least having Obama on the ticket. Hum-mm, I wonder what would happen if he refuses to get in the back seat?

[galaxy21]

101. I could see Barack telling them to go to hell

He has his dignity after all.

[EffieBlack]

If that were the case, Obama should tell her, "No, sister, you're on your own."

"I'm not going to let you use me to get to try to get to the White House (and to blame if you don't make it). Nah - you wanted it, you go for it. I'll wait for 2012. Good luck."

[redqueen]

110. Did the GOP even offer the VP spot to Reagan when Ford won in 76?

[sybylla]

225. You mean behind Bill Clinton

Unless she can get a leash on the Big Dog, no one who seriously wants to do something as VP will take her up on that offer.

[kwenu]

97. I'm with you 100%.

[ej510]

108. She can't catchup in the delegate count so if they give it to

her I'm gone for good. If she wins fair and square then I could accept that any other way hell no.

[kwenu]

121. The SDs know that the selection of Hillary finishes the Democratic Party as we know it.

[natrat]

350. no doubt-she is just one big ball of sleaze and has soured so many people,probably by rovian design

[Shae]

100. They won't, they can't . . .

If they do, I'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

I've said before if Obama wins and supers give it to her, I won't vote for her.
But then there is McCain who equals Bush's 3rd term.
Then again, the party who would do that to Obama is a democratic party no more.

I have to assume they won't do it.
I'm not making any choice until it happens, and hopefully it will never happen.

[RiverStone]

104. The Dem party would throw EVERYBODY...

In our big blue tent under the bus if they allow Hillary and the SuperD's to pull off a coup.

In matters not what color the man is to this voter, I'd vote for Obama if he was purple.

Lets hope the winner is declared the winner - not too much to ask eh?


peace~:)

[Coexist]

105. did you read this thread from yesterday?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5627088&mesg_id=5627088

[EFerrari]

117. What a great OP! Thanks, FLDem5!

:)

[Barack_America]

180. No. I didn't see that yesterday.

I was stuck in our volunteer command central for about 15 hours.

Thanks for pointing it out! I enjoyed reading it!

[Catherina]

106. We're going to the Mountaintop together with our Rainbow Arms

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."²

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.

With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.

Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,

From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.



And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.

Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.

Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.

Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.

But not only that:

Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.

From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:

Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!


:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Thank you. To all my wonderful sisters and brothers, thank you!

[invictus]

111. K & R

[redqueen]

113. I think you'll have lots and lots of company under there...

from folks of all colors, creeds, ages, etc.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

115. If Obama wins the delegates and he..

wins the popular and the SD's hand it to Hillary despite the clear intention of the Democratic primary voters then this lifelong Dem registers Independent the first chance she gets. Plain and simple.

I have been hanging on to my party affiliation by a thread for several years now, a very thin thread. A Hillary presidential candidacy under those circumstances snaps it.

[Lisa0825]

119. I'll be down there with you!

:patriot:

[Aloha Spirit]

122. I will paint myself yellow and be a speedbump on that frickin road to the White House.

[Barack_America]

125. Hillary's bumpy path to the nomination!

:rofl:

[panAmerican]

128. As a non-African-American woman of color, I agree

Black people in this country have put up with too much crap, been taken for granted too long, been told to get over it because at least they're tolerated in this so-called party of inclusion.

Why is it that pointing out racism is legitimate ONLY when White people say so? It's just like when Iraqis were reporting deaths of civilians, but the MSM kept saying, "It hasn't been confirmed". Confirmed by WHO?!!!! The assumption was that US forces had to confirm it before it could be assumed to be true.

How many missing White women's names can you list right off the top of your head? How many missing Chinese, Black, Indian, or Hispanic women's names have you even heard of?

The fact is that many Democrats are finally waking up to the fact that the racists didn't all migrate to Reagan after all. Plenty of them stayed right here, and didn't mind the Black "house help" as long as they stayed in their place. Already the undercurrents of linking Obama to "angry Black men" are strong in the Democratic party.

Tons of article from White women's points of view decry the fact that they don't get respect for choosing to be stay-at-home moms, while ignoring the fact that many/most women of color (especially Black) are so far behind that they don't get that choice.

I may be an immigrant who came to this country and is doing quite well, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing that African-Americans are treated like second-class citizens here, especially in politics.

[Barack_America]

132. This is an amazing post.

I just have to say that.

Bravo. :applause:

[panAmerican]

163. Thank you, Kristi; I couldn't hold back anymore after reading your post.

[EFerrari]

141. Andale, hermanita.

:)

[panAmerican]

165. Gracias, mija!

[Robeson]

145. A belated welcome to DU, panAmerican...

...I'm glad your voice is here... :hi:

[panAmerican]

169. Thank you, glad to be here.

[AspenRose]

416. Brilliant.

Bienveniedos :-)

[oasis]

129. So you have no problem with Obama throwing "bitter" white folks under the bus?

Mmmmmmkay.:eyes:

[EFerrari]

133. If you don't know that he didn't do that, you're hopeless. n/t

[oasis]

153. Doesn't matter what I "don't know". The elitist perception was the dominant

factor in Obama's fall.

[EFerrari]

155. His fall? LOL! He did better by 10 points than the Clinton people said he would.

[oasis]

187. Clinton folks predicted 20 pts.? When was that?

[Barack_America]

135. I'm a bitter white person and I don't recall being run over.

I do recall, however, having a politician express the anger I feel.

[oasis]

162. Well then you must accept the fact that Obama's comments were offensive

to other bitter white presons. And there were a lot more of them.

[Barack_America]

168. You find the truth offensive. I find it liberating.

To each his own.

[oasis]

186. Wrong. I never said that I was offended. But then, I'm not among the

hundreds of thousands of voters who were very much offended.

[ShortnFiery]

130. The Clintons should NOT be permitted to change the rules!?!

If Clinton convinces the superdelegates to OVERTURN the delegate lead Obama has it will DESTROY the Democratic Party.

BTW The Clintons will NOT EVER repair the damage Bubba and Miss Hilly has done via the thinly veiled Atwater-esque "Southern Strategy." Mission Accomplished!

Fear and loathing promoted by The Clintons' Campaign. :grr:

[Stop Cornyn]

134. The Democratic Party I know and love won't do that. It's over. Hillary is the wiggling body of a bug

with its head cut off. Everyone knows she's dead except her.

[NashVegas]

136. Allow Me to Fluff Your Pillow

As an HC supporter and a realist, I respect that the decision is most likely going to be made by the SDs and they don't have an easy job.

If they decide to go with BO, I know it's not going to be *because* HC is a woman or *because* BO is African-descended, just as I know that if they decide to go with HC, it won't be *because* BO is African-descended or *because* HC is a woman.

Whomever it was on the Democratic side that decided to push this particular contest and turn it into the woman vs the black guy - while at the same time, trying to hide that fact - is a flaming asshole. If you want to join them, it's your call.

[EFerrari]

140. That's a perversion of the OP's point and I suspect you know that.

The OP was talking about an important voting block for Democrats, not Obama's race, which you made it about in your post.

[NashVegas]

149. That's An Even Greater Perversion & I Suspect You're So Convinced In the Righteousness of Your Cause

That you won't see it until two or more years from now.

[EFerrari]

158. Well, no, it's not. n/t

[wowimthere]

137. K&R I like this post... It is admirable and it shows us what a DEMOCRATshould look like nt

[ZinZen]

138. If the Dem party picks Hillary

we are looking at an implosion in the Dem party. If the Dems really want to win they had better think about the consequences of overturning Obama's PD lead, because they will have the equivalent of a 1972 redux on their hands.

[robicon]

142. Probably see an implosion regardless

of the choice.

The campaigns of both candidates will get uglier while neither touches on anything substantive.

I'm sick of the all-encompassing "change" banter. I want specifics (and yes I've read their take on the issues on each website).

sincerely,
(still) undecided voter

[2rth2pwr]

152. Gratutious racism charge from an Obama supporter?

check.

Business as usual.

[Danger Mouse]

214. Says the queen of the gratuitous sexism charge!

Check the thread. Some lovely bigoted comments directed at Obama and his supporters.

[TragedyandHope]

156. K & R for taking a stand

Personally, I still think what McCain would do to the country would be infinitely worse that getting screwed by the Democratic party. Blacks, whites and everyone would be much worse off.

I don't want to reward Clinton's despicable behavior, but I have the feeling that sending a message by staying out of the election would not have the positive effect on the party that we would hope, and the negative consequences would be far worse.

Under McCain, I think of how much worse the economy would be, I think of Iraq and Iran, Supreme Court appointments and so many other problems we have to face in the next 4-8 years. So, I've come to my own conclusion that this may not be the right time to make this kind of statement. It feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The country is at such a precarious moment in it's history, considering how the dollar is going down the toilet and many other countries are booming and taking over world economic leadership. I think we need to start rebuilding the country and turning the tide as soon as possible. We need to strengthen education and build a truly productive society instead of a hollow credit-bubble, deficit-spending economy fueled by rampant speculation. We need to start right now.

I'm struggling with it every day, but I have resolved to vote for the Democratic candidate. However, I am sympathetic to your choice and I respect your decision.

Barack must be our nominee and our next President of the United States for all the reasons I've listed above and more.

[juno jones]

290. Thing is Hillary seems to have no qualms about those supreme court

appointments. She will damage us beyond belief, then run in 2012. There is plenty evidence that that is her plan if she continues this road. She doesn't care enough about the supremes to make sure a dem wins this time.

Women have been thrown under the bus by this one as well. They just don't see it yet.

[sunnystarr]

368. The line between Clinton and McCain is shrinking

day by day. Is there any difference left?? I don't even recognize her as a Dem anymore. Obliterate Iran?? Fox News appearances?? Rovian type ads?? Richard Mellon Scaife?? Outright lies labelled as "misstatements"?? If she and Bill have convinced the media to destroy Obama and then steal the candidacy then I'll be proud to write in BARACK OBAMA on my ballot!! At least I can be true to myself and stand tall!

[Barack_America]

414. Ain't that the sad truth.

I no longer recognize the woman called "Hillary Clinton".

[jackson_dem]

157. If Obama loses it will be throwing 40 million folks under the bus?

Does that mean if the supers put Obama over the top that 150 million women are thrown under the bus?

[galaxy21]

170. How would women get thrown under the bus?

If the situtations where reversed, and Hillary had more delegates, but they gave it to Obama, then yes, they would resent that.

However, if she loses, it'll be fair and square. What's to resent?

If Hillary had won fair and square, blacks would still vote for her.

[jackson_dem]

173. They wouldn't. That is the point

Obama has no special policies for blacks and nor does Clinton for women.

If Clinton wins the popular vote--very much a possibility now--would it be throwing 150 million under the bus? Of course not. Obama would not be any worse than Clinton for women, assuming he manages to win the general election.

[Danger Mouse]

213. No, but if Obama is leading in pledged delegates AND popular vote..

and the supers go for Clinton, most Obama supporters, myself included, will feel that we were cheated.

[knixphan]

161. K&R for inspiration!

[Araxen]

166. I agree with you.

[mrgorth]

167. With

you.

[scheming daemons]

172. To paraphrase Jaws, they're going to need a bigger bus....

...because I'll be there with ya.

[EFerrari]

185. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[Clintonista2]

174. The Obamabot answer to everything: "You're racist!"

[LWolf]

175. You do that.

Obama already threw left liberals like myself under the bus, quite early in his campaign.

Of course, the democratic party did so a long time ago. Who ever gave you the idea that "the democratic party" respected your vote? I've known better for years.

Race does not drive my vote. Ever. Issues drive my vote. Obama loses on issues. At this point, I'm likely to vote for a black woman in November, but I won't be voting for Obama or HRC in November.

If you, or anyone else, doesn't like that, THAT'S YOUR CHOICE.

I didn't choose to nominate race or gender over substance.

[jenmito]

178. Did you notice that there were no exit polls saying how many BLACK voters voted for Hillary vs.

Obama?!

[hopein08]

179. Isn't that kind of a given in the poll that 92% of black voters went for Obama?

That leaves 8% or less that voted for Hillary.

[jenmito]

181. Yeah, but it is NEVER asked why so few Black voters support Hillary, or what will happen

with them if SHE'S the nominee (somehow).

[Barack_America]

189. Assumptions are made.

Just as they are with liberals and young voters.

But, by God, if there ever were a time for a viable third party to emerge, it would be now. We'll take progressives, African Americans, young voters and Howard Dean and leave the rotting carcass of the Democratic party to the DLC.

[robicon]

190. well...

that wouldn't fit the "Obamanation's" directive.

[bunkerbuster1]

183. I won't let my black brothers and sisters down.

I recognize that there is a chance that Obama could conceivably a) lose every remaining primary 90/10 to Clinton, and b) turn out to have some crazy/horrible skeleton in the closet we know nothing of now, so I won't say there's NO way I'd ever support Clinton.

But assuming this does play out as expected, I expect the Supers to respect the will of the people and of the established pledged delegates. I totally agree with the spirit of your post. The DNC must not let down those who've stuck with us through the shittiest of times.

[stillcool]

191. I won't have to go with...

I will already be there. It's going to be a long, hot, summer.

[Willo]

194. Thank you Kristi and all who agree

I was very upset last night. Not because Hillary won in PA but because the democratic party is allowing Obama and his family to be mocked, publically disrespected and forced to constantly meet another unnessary, moving goal.

All my life I've heard black people say "we have to work twice as hard and be twice as smart to earn what is given to white person with average abilities." Lo and behold, some things don't seem to change:

An intelligent black Senator, running a well-oiled, money-rich campaign, speaking positively about unifying all people, winning in every area to be won, while playing by the rules -- is somehow still not good enough against the white Senator who tells bald-faced lies, is campaign-broke, an embarrassment to herself and America, publically showing no respect to anyone, including the party.

When he stays above the dirt he's labeled a whimp. When he modestly hits back he's labeled a hypocrite and what's worse is the media attacks him viciously, while allowing Hillary to escape on NAFTA, Penn, $800k.

Ohio and Pennsylvania are two states leading in economic decline. But, they are not jobless, broke or hungry enough to vote for a black president. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. But, I can still accept and understand their bitter rationale.

But the democratic party in general and the SD's particularly...let's be honest, its about race, money or both. And, while, we're being honest here and cutting out the BS, Hillary has no intention of ending any wars.

So, yeah, I determined last night I'll not vote for Hillary (damn that). And, if we can't show better support for the deserving candidate, I will find another party, if any, to get behind.

[Barack_America]

260. Philly Baracked the vote.

For that I am extremely proud.

63% of registered Dems in my precinct voted in this primary. That is compared to 65% for the 2004 general election. My precinct, which actually happens to be one of the few largely white precincts in West Philly, voted for Barack with 74% of the vote.

My campus, which is predominantly white and wealthy and was lavished with Clinton visits (Hillary 3 and Bill and Chelsea 2 each), including the mother rally the night before the election with Hillary, Bill, Chelsea, Rendell and Nutter; voted for Barack with 72% of the vote.

There are lots of white folks who see what's really going on and rejecting it. Please take heart in that. So many of the divisions between white and black crumbled in West Philly due to the Obama campaign. We are becoming one community. And that is a beautiful thing.

[Bake]

195. This is fucking stupid, people. We don't need to throw ANYBODY under the bus.

The whole point that Sen. Obama made in his speech has been missed by BOTH sides! We don't need to be a "white America" and a "black America", we need to be ONE AMERICA.

WE NEED EACH OTHER. What part of that don't you understand? Hillary can't win the GE without black support, and Obama can't win without white support.

What is happening is that people on both sides have refused to listen to ANY of our leader on the race issue. We've got white people and black people and brown people ALL sticking their feet so far up their ass they could kick their own teeth. Instead of uniting, we are dividing even further. We've got people on both sides, and people of all races, threatening/promising to stay home if THEIR candidate doesn't get the nomination.

I suggest that FOR ONCE, we all listen to Sen. Obama, and stop acting like children. I'm not saying sacrifice your support for your candidate. I'm saying let's act like reasonable adults about the race issue.

If we don't, we lose the election. And worse, we're just morally WRONG. It's just that simple.

Bake

[Willo]

201. He's already been thrown under the bus

I've just lost count of how many times he's been driven over.

But the point the OP makes is not about race but about right and wrong.

[Barack_America]

203. Honestly, it's about having the back of those who are most loyal to you...

It's the "we're good enough to vote for them, but not good enough for them to vote for us" that's pissing me off.

We have a superior Democratic candidate. He happens to be black man. Black voters happen to be the most loyal Democrats. That the Democratic party is not fighting for him, because he's a black man is sheer hypocrisy.

[Willo]

216. Agreed.

and smiled at "having the back of those..."

[roseBudd]

226. Reagan Democrats are not democrats they are bitter uneducated white people who need someone to blame

They have not voted D in decades except maybe for Clinton but only because the economy was in the toilet. That is like a fairweather sports fan.

[Eric Condon]

322. Applause

That's right. If these people were stupid enough to vote for Reagan, they'll be stupid enough to vote for McCain. These people are not Democrats. The Democratic Party was never "out of touch" with them like the media tries to say. They were just ignorant and got suckered into Reagan's "Great Communicator" schtick.

The reason why we call these individuals "Democrats" is because at one time, this demographic (white, working class union voters) was solidly Democratic. But that was back in the 60s. Somewhere along the lines these voters stopped being reliably Democratic. So I don't call these people "Reagan Democrats." Mostly nowadays I just call them people who labor under the inane delusion that Hillary "Screw 'em" Clinton and her $109 million actually give a shit about their best interests.

[thoughtcrime1984]

199. I am hoping that the SD's do not listen to the media and Hillary

who are raising electability issues of the black candidate. He has won 150+ more pledged delegates than she has. He has even won more popular votes, which do not matter, because if the caucus states thought that popular votes were the measuring stick (which it isn't), they would have primaries, so that the people who aren't willing to do more than just check a box would show up. There are NO rational arguments for the SD's to pick her. The electoral one doesn't wash either, as he does better than her in polls vs. McCain. A different candidate match-up causes different results, believe it or not. He IS our nominee, unless some act of extreme stupidity should happen.

[EffieBlack]

204. Hear, hear!

[Georgie_92]

212. In total agreement!

[Cha]

222. Oh, you can count on me..

to fucking give the finger scratching my cheek to the anybody who tries to go against the will of the voters to install the whining Bosnian Liar as our Democratic Nominee.

[Raine]

223. I'll be right there with you...

and what's more I may reregister from Democratic to Independent.

[roseBudd]

224. I did all my GOTV for Kerry in African American precincts, if BO gets screwed by HRC I can't go back

to those same voters because I will be too ashamed.

[quakerboy]

227. I am with you in spirit

Though, I would note that the halfway mark on pledged delegates for either candidate has not quite been reached. When it is, then I will feel more certain in my position.

[marlakay]

231. I am pissed they say the black voters

are voting only because he is black. Someone said on the radio today would they all vote for Rice? I don't think so with her being a republican and for the war.

She would get some votes but not 92%...

I think they like me are voting for him because of who he is. I am not voting color so why should they? If they are supposedly choosing something to be different then I should be choosing a woman and I am not.

People vote for who they think is the best candidate period. I am sick and tired of people not giving Obama enough points for being the most inspirational candidate since Kennedy.

I voted for Bill back in the 90's, he had alot of charm, but he even back then doesn't have what Obama does.

What is wrong with America that they can't see that? Its not just words. He motivates you to be a better person. Thats the whole reason people go to see Oprah, go to church, listen to wise people on tv share knowledge with you, so you can learn and be a better person.

Does McCain or Hillary make you feel like you want to be a better person?

[PoliticalAmazon]

233. DNC has stood silently and allowed Clintons to slam Blacks....

...They have some explaining to do.

[goclark]

239. Kristi ` I'm African American and you are eloquent

and compassionate.

:hug:

[lmbradford]

240. My husband and I are white (40ish)....

and we will go under the bus with you all. Obama has already had to endure so much more than every other candidate that I know of and it is bordering on the ridiculous. He is a multi-racial man....get over it. If you are really democrats, then that wouldn't matter. Race is a republican tactic not a dem. Obama is the better person for the nomination, thus the delegate wins.....all other arguments are moot. This bs must stop soon. If H Clinton was winning at this point, there wouldn't even be a discussion about Obama dropping out. What is wrong with the people in this country? Do you want a good man in office for the presidency? Or do you want all the legal bs, all of the adultery, all of the manipulations, all of the secrecy, and on and on and on........of the Clintons? COME ON>>>>>WAKE UP TO REALITY!!!!

[Unbowed]

243. Me too. I've always been a strong Democrat, but that would be a deal breaker.

Being a strong Democrat, however, I can't believe it will come to that. There is NO way that the Democratic Party will allow this. No way in Hell.

It would be self-immolation. The end.

But the Green Party would benefit from all the lost Dems looking for a new home.

Time will tell.

[HooptieWagon]

245. I'm with you!

It would be a crying shame if AA's loyalty to the Democratic Party over the years is tossed aside to deliver an "entitlement" to an egotistical liar.

[Auntie Bush]

248. If they throw the seniors, working men and woman, Catholics, gays, uninsured and

poor under the bus...I'll lay down with them. The rich yuppies, blacks, Youngens, Rethugs and Independents will stand there an watch with smiles on there faces as they chant, "We won!"

[Barack_America]

249. What a bizarre post.

You really seem to have a lot of animosity towards those groups.

[Auntie Bush]

252. Huh? Whatya talkin'bout?

You must have misunderstood my post or you haven't read the other posts that it relates to. Sorry about that. Actually it was more or less a joke or tongue in cheek. You seem to take things too seriously. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

254. How twisted is that. n/t

[juno jones]

294. moved comment

moved comment

[readmoreoften]

251. Oh the histrionics. Stop this divisive shit.

Why would the party deny Obama the candidacy because of racism? What evidence of extensive voter racism has there been? Obama has won white votes throughout the south and middle America. And, by the way, there is no other kind of racism than 'white' racism.

OF COURSE race is an issue in this election, as is sexism, but to assume that the party is 'throwing African-Americans under the bus' if Clinton pulls majority support out of her ass (which I don't think she'll manage) is a huge, faulty, and nasty assumption. If the Democratic party was afraid of racist voters, they'd've torpedoed Obama a long time ago. He has the support of the majority of the superdelegates and the support of the party. There's no call for this kind of bullshit. Its as specious as saying the party is trying to destroy Clinton because she's a woman. Or saying that 96% of African-American men voted for Obama in Pennsylvania because they hate women!

If people wanted to vote for the "white" candidate, they could vote for McCain. And yes, "more" Clinton supports are refusing to vote for Obama than vice versa, but the difference is only ONE PERCENT. Saying that Clinton supporters are refusing to vote for Obama because he's African-American is as big a crock of shit as saying that Obama supporters are refusing to vote for Clinton because she's a woman.

The reality is that Obama supporters won't vote for Clinton because they hate her personally, and Clinton supporters won't vote for Obama because they hate his over-zealous supporters.

You're not 'siding with African-Americans' you're cynically trying to get your candidate elected. It's disgusting. You people are ruining this party with your divisive hysteria.

Because of the rift in the party caused by BOTH CANDIDATES SUPPORTERS and the Republican propaganda that they feed off. It looks like we're going to have a Republican president and a thoroughly destroyed Democratic party. And it won't be Clinton's fault. And it won't be Obama's fault. And it won't be the Democratic Party's fault. It'll be the fault of hysterical supporters doing all the Republicans work for them. Divide and conquer. They did it.

See you under the bus with everyone else.

[Aloha Spirit]

253. Superdelegates are not saying they want to ditch O cuz of racism... it's because of "electability".

There's the bone. Chew on it..

[ScarletSniper]

311. What Super Delegates are saying that? Nothing worse than lying..and pontificating on BS

[Aloha Spirit]

328. here's a source... the AP polled undecided superdelegates. about 40 said the most important factor

is electability. I think a lot of them will decide Obama is less electable because of some stupid ass shit. They are not required to disclose their reasons though.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/21/103333/295

[EFerrari]

258. You really don't get it, do you?

Are you actually this completely unaware of what is happening in this country and in this party?

Are you actually unaware that to deny the obvious winner of our party's nomination would alienate the black community who has come out in droves for the first time in many years? Are you really unaware of how disrespectful that would be?

You are the cynical one, friend. Or, worse, you logic skills are so deficient you should never stand on the wrong side of a podium.

[myrna minx]

255. Hear Hear! n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

256. I hate to say this

but the reason why white working class people didn't vote for Barack was he is Black - period. People have said this in our own Dem club here and for the Democratic Party this is unacceptable. If our party is anti Black we have a real problem.

[terrell9584]

261. if blacks were actually going to not show up if he isn't nominated

and risk allowing their absence to elect a bunch of lower level officials who will make things worse for them on the home front, I would buy this.

However, living in the South, where white politicians still find ways of gaining points from coding anti-black messages. It won't happen. black voters won't cut off their nose to spite their face.

They may only turnout at Kerry or Gore levels instead of unprecendented levels, but they will still turn out.

[ScarletSniper]

313. As a black woman that actually speak to black people, I'd say you're dead wrong!

[terrell9584]

317. If black turnout is just cut by half in the South

Then the black Mississippi Delta will be represented by a white Republican, if they actually bother to field a candidate. New Orleans, if half of the remaining blacks turnout, will be represented by a white congressman. Many black areas in North Carolina, where legislative seats are up, will end up represented by white Republicans if any bother to qualify.

I just don't believe that black voters are going to refuse to show up and risk the retaliation from both Democratic officials in larger northern cities, and the obvious consequences that would go along with a slew of new Republicans getting elected in black areas in the South.

I just can't imagine why people would hurt their own position to prove a point, then again what do I know, I only live in an integrated neighborhood in a majority black city.

[woolldog]

413. Who said anything about not voting downticket?

No dem presidential candidate is going to win the south.

We're talking about areas like Detroit (Michigan), Philly (PA), Milwauke (WI), Cleveland (OH). These cities run up big democratic majorities that allow Democrats to have a chance in to win those states in general elections. W/o black support these states will be very difficult for the democrats to win.

[Barack_America]

417. For the record, I will still vote downticket.

Of course I will. My community has been served by many numerous civil servants, most of whom, I might add, have endorsed and stuck by Obama as superdelegates.

Why should I fault them for the failings of this party? (rhetorical question)

This is not about revenge, it's about principle.

[woolldog]

423. I know.

:hug:

[Evergreen Emerald]

262. I do not understand this post. Because he is black we should let him win?

YOu are ok with throwing women under the bus?

[HooptieWagon]

267. If she was leading PD's, the SD's should rally behind her.

But she's not, and she's fabricating all these convoluted rule changes intended to grant her her "entitlement". SD's would well serve the party and country by ending her ego-driven scorched earth campaign.

And to the poster above who referenced the "AA's turning out in droves for the first time in years" - uh, where ya been? AA's have been giving Dems candidates strong support for years - despite being disenfranchised, not counted, and ignored once the campaign is done. Sheesh, probably no single sub-group of Dems has been as loyal, yet been shat on so often, as AA's. Obama is the leading candidate, he's the stronger candidate, and to deny him the nomination through smoke-filled back room shenanigans would be the greatest of injustices.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

263. Sorry, But This Race Doesn't Revolve Around Black Voters.

It revolves around the Democratic Party and who will be the best nominee going into the general election for that party. It really is that simple, and the melodrama of your post is a tad silly. Well intentioned and even honorable in some ways, but silly nonetheless.

This is a Presidential primary. It's only purpose is to select the candidate for our party that we want going up against the other party in November. That's it. This isn't about black voters, woman voters, or anyone else. It's about who's the strongest candidate; period.

[Barack_America]

268. Wow. You really haven't been following things, have you?

What exactly do you think this issue about "electability" among "blue collar whites" is about anyway?

Explain to me please, why older and blue-collar white voters are shying away from Obama. Particularly when so many have deemed Hillary "untrustworthy".

Her economic policies aren't that good, lol.

As for the melodrama, you spend three months of your life working for a common cause with enthusiastic, committed young people and hopeful African Americans only to have it all undone by racist white fucks. We'll see how "melodramatic" you feel after that.

[ScarletSniper]

340. You Go Girl!!!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

375. My Post Stands As Correct. This Race Isn't About Them Any More Than Anyone Else. Deal With It.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

376. Oh, And Another Thing:

"undone by racist white fucks"

Just when I thought you couldn't get any more melodramatic LOL

Irrational much?

[Barack_America]

380. Sorry, but you are wrong, it's called being...

..."passionate"

Have you ever worked for a candidate? Have you ever asked people for their votes only to find out that their chosen candidate, the one who is actually WINNING, may be deemed "unelectable" because he happens to look like them?

I agree that this goes beyond these two candidates. This election strikes at a fundamental issue in our country; what do we place more highly, our country's best interests or our prejudices? Lest you forget, we were faced with this question last election regarding gay marriage and we lost. But at least that was due to the *other* side. Now we find that question also plagues our very own party. Do I not have the right to be disappointed by that? Do I not have the right to demand my party take a stand and fight for its supposed values?

Apologies, but I don't think that I'm the one being myopic here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

387. Racist White Fucks Is Not Passionate. It Is Irrational And Ignorant.

Your premise that if Hillary received the nomination it would be due to racist white fucks, is amazingly narrow minded, ignorant, irrational and borderline insane in premise. Not a thing to do with passion.

[Barack_America]

395. Listen, I can't debate current events with someone who is obviously not following them.

Please tell me what's really behind Clinton's arguments about:

"working class whites" -and- "electability"

You really think that her economic policies are so superior that "working class whites" are voting for her in droves even though they find her untrustworthy?

You really think that's what's going on? Wow.

And yes, a person who is willing to knowingly vote against the interests of this country, their community and their family just because the could "never vote for a black man", IS a racist white fuck.

Yes that's how angry they make me. That's my right.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

409. I've Followed Things Quite Fine. But I'm Not Gonna Debate With Someone In That Irrational A State

of mind.

If Hillary gets the nomination, it will not be due to racist white fucks. Furthermore, as per the original point, this race is not about black americans any more than it is about any other american. You meant well and I understand your intentions, but the premise was a bit melodramatic and silly.

This is all really quite simple: We are trying to determine who will be the best Democratic candidate to run in November. That's it. Try and bring yourself back down to some sense of reasoning.

[Barack_America]

411. I cannot support the overturning of elections...

On the premise that the winner is ultimately unelectable because of his race.

That is what is going on here, whether you like it or not.

If you disagree, please tell me what the basis of this "electability" issue is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

422. Wow. What A Naive Perspective.

Enjoy your bubble. I'm not going to continue wasting time with someone of such a narrow view.

[indimuse]

283. 2nd that!

spot on." border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>By <a href>

[Zhade]

265. Hear, hear! His victory will open the way to my dream president: a gay atheist!

: )

[salbi]

269. Please make room for me under that bus

I'm a proud life long democrat, but if the nomination is taken away from Obama and given to Hillary, the only thing that will make me proud it to find a space under the bus with everyone else.

[rhett o rick]

272. They will also be throwing the activists of the party under the bus. They will be bowing to their

corporate masters, just like the repukes.

[Califooyah Operative]

274. Amen. And it's not just black voters either.

It's new voters, youth voters, people from every backgrond, over half of our party who've voted for Barack in most of the states.

[Barack_America]

277. I highlighted black voters because they have been unquestioningly the most loyal to the party.

But I've also been working with wonderful young Barack supporters, many of whom have traveled across the country to volunteer for him. I am keenly aware (and angry) that they too are considered "expendable".

[crankychatter]

275. Clinton's nomination will be suicide for the Democratic Party

and that's the word

it's official

there is no more room for debate

gtfo or change your Party affiliation Clinton...

we're done with you

[Eurobabe]

276. Save me a spot too

If it comes to this, there will be blood.

[1776Forever]

279. If they pick HRC and the Establishment instead of Barack then the Democratic Party is gone!!!!!!!!!!

I am gone with it as will be many thousands of others! HRC and the Clinton express who are the true elitists will never be my candidate and those people that choose to vote for a liar and corporate hugger will deserve what they get!

The Bilderberg's, as well as the military industrial complex that HRC voted for twice, once for the Iraq War and then the Kyle-Lieberman Iranian vote, and corporate HMO health care thieves that Nixon started up, will be smiling all the way to the bank!

I fear the worst is yet to come!

:grr:

[1trackmindGOP]

306. This is the people vs the establishment election

We face a battle, the establishment does not want us to win and is aggressively fighting to keep power, the Clinton's are part of the establishment and it is clearly noted...The question is, do we the people have enough integrity and power left to take our country back...that is what this election is truly about...people need to wake up and pay attention to the state of our country and realize if we do make substantial change and real soon, we may never have the opportunity to do so again...we are losing ground, our future is in jeopardy and our children's future is looking even more dim.

If you love your country and claim to be a patriot, act like it, spend some time in doing an honest to god search of the real truth and facts...don't be swift boated by those who are throwing the kitchen sink to make sure real change does not happen and that want to maintain their power hold over main street America (you and I). I am counting on you and my children are counting on you to make the correct decision, I pray you have the wisdom and fortitude to do so.

[1776Forever]

330. From your response I think you will like reading this...Hope IN is listening

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5662175&mesg_id=5662415

[ScarletSniper]

349. Bravo!!! Let's take back our country from the special interest and the establishment! Down with

the Clintons!!

[annie1]

280. If she wins the pop vote THAT is saying votes count. So calm down...

before all the ifs. no one is going to override a candidate with both the pop. vote and the del. count. THe question will be what to do if one wins the del and one wins the pop. I say go with the pop if that happens.

[ekwhite]

286. OK - that argument is horseshit

First - she only wins the popular vote if you count Michigan, where Obama wasn't even on the ballot, and disregard the caucus states.
Second - the party awards the nomination on delegates, not popular vote. Those are the rules. Otherwise, they could not allow caucuses, period.
Third, by the end of this contest, Obama is projected to have a slim lead in popular vote, even with Michigan counted.

To summarize, that dog won't hunt.

[harun]

282. Count me in. I like Hillary but there are a few items I just can't get by

She is DLC, which is stated as overtly anti-populist. She continues to lie about Universal Health Care, saying she is for it when she is not, she is working for mandated Health Insurance. Foreign policy wise she is no different than a neo-conservative. I know Obama is fully on board with U.S. expansionist Imperialism as well but he is not as far to the right on this as Hillary.

[rateyes]

284. This 48 year old white guy will gladly join you there. nt

[WillyT]

287. I'm Right There With Ya !!! - K & R !!!

And I know many who feel exactly the same way.

Outstanding post!!!

:bounce::yourock::bounce:

:hi:

[DemVet]

295. NO!!! Barack Obama HAS NOT WON THE NOMINATION YET!

Can't you Obama supporters understand that?

He needs 2025 delegates to win the nomination. He isn't even close yet.

Just because he's leading doesn't mean jack s**t.

He hasn't won.

He may eventually win...but he hasn't YET.

What will you do if superdelegates decided to give it to Hillary by voting for her?

Cry?

Tough.

There is no such thing as "stealing" the Nomination.

The superdelegates are charged with voting their conscience...voting for whom they feel will win in November. Voting for the delegate leader doesn't matter...voting for the popular vote leader doesn't matter (though that would probably best represent the will of the people)...superdelegates can vote for who they want to...contrary to the babbling of Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and Ted Kennedy.

Understand that?

[lisa58]

296. I'm there - and I know a few more who would join as well

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

297. Police Chief Martin Brody: We're going to need a bigger bus!

[Pappy]

298. Well said, ever since FDR, they have stuck with us through and through

Ever since FDR was successful in getting Blacks to abandon the Republican party they have universally supported the Democrats and I completely agree that throwing them under the bus on this one would be a hugely stupid mistake. Although I don't want to say it, I do believe the Super Delegates really support Hillary mostly because Obama is Black and they are worried he can't win, or maybe some lingering racism in the Democratic Party. I say that because she did win PA and I know people from PA and there is allot of racists whites there.

[juno jones]

299. See ya there if this scenario comes to pass.

A note for those who keep yammering about white working class people. I am blue-collar, white, and uninsured and for OBAMA.
As are a majority of my co-workers (male and female). Damn, you guys are getting offensive when you paint us working folk as a bunch of schlubs for Hillary. It's patronizing. Stop it. We don't fucking march lockstep either although it would be damn convienent if we did, eh?

My co-workers won't come out for Hillary. You'll never hear from them, and it will be buisness as usual. Obama will bring them out of the wookwork, out in droves. It's surprising to hear these apolitical people keeping up with the election and talking hopefully about Obama. If there are a few cooks and waitstaff in most restaurants across this country that feel the same way, there's a huge voting block right there. But you'll never see them if Hillary is nominated, they are the 'bitter' ones who are so alienated from the system they don't even bother to vote.

I can't support Hillary. If she wins 'fair and square', I will vote for her, but will do no more.
If she gets the nom thru political strongarming, gladhanding, and 'walking around' money, I will not only not vote for her, I will vote third party and go find the others who support the same things I do. I'm tired of DLC, their neoliberal crap and their shitty candidates.

[Maineman]

301. Hey, it is not just Black voters.

Many, perhaps most, Black voters had to be convinced before they switched from Clinton to Obama. It is too bad that women who support Hillary because she is a woman are not as willing to reconsider. In our community, a local woman politician who spoke on behalf of Hillary at the causus declared that any woman who did not support Hillary was like a traitor. (My wife was furious, I am proud to say.) I wonder how many women who support Hillary realize how similar she is to Bush (fighter, talk tough, war monger, dishonest, stay the course).

[1trackmindGOP]

303. Count me in!!!

The Clinton's have worked hard to lose my good will for them and fall into the realm of the likes of Bush, Chaney, Rove, Gonzales and the rest. I am completely hacked off with her kitchen sink attack style against a fellow Democrat and her traitor acts of telling America that McCain is more fit to be President than Obama. I am not a woman hater by any means, but I would have to say that Hillary fits the B word to a tee.

[Araxen]

305. K&R!

:kick:

[mcollier]

307. The tide is turning

Change is on the agenda. The Blueprint for America is a must read. Go to Obama's website and get it...

Check out the Obama crowd in my sig line link too.

[spag68]

308. Clinton-Obama supporter war

Lately the flame wars have kept me from posting at all,but I could not pass this one up. Since Edwards dropped out, I have maintained the I will pull the D lever whichever name is on that line. This leaves me open to seeing both sides with clearer vision, well that and being older then dirt. Obama is not as good as his supporters believe, and Clinton is not as bad as she is made out to be. She can't solve all the problems on day one, he is not the peoples savoir. We will be better off with either in the White house. Now to the post, I kind of chuckle when anyone portrays shock that race is an issue, of course it is. As far as throwing people of color under the bus, that is a problem for some politicians, who owe their political lives to the Clinton's, and have viewed them as helping black people all their political lives. Now it seems that black people have thrown under the bus their benefactor for the last 25 or 30 years for the new guy on the block because he is black. Admittedly a great orator his speeches wear some on those who hear them many times, ie political wonks. HRC on the other hand scares me with those morning meeting with the creepy right wing preacher. I implore you, all you real Dems. here, look for better ways to get your candidate to the nomination. Just because the talking heads persist in beating the drums of controversy, use your own brain to figure out what is going on and reason and logic to understand the problems. We can't afford a McCain Presidency.

[N4457S]

310. There Was...

...an article in the Journal this morning about how the race is over, the cable news shows be damned.

It will be Obama vs. McCain.

Hillary is broke and behind in both the delegate and popular vote count.

There's no way. If the superdelegates give it to her, it shreds the party. That can't happen.

On the other hand, it now falls to Obama to win both Ohio and Pennsylvania in the general, something which he'll never do. Ohio and Pennsylvania are the only two places I know of where the N word is still used on a regular basis. There's an article in the Times of London (of all places) this morning about it.

There's no hope of him carrying Florida, just as there was no hope for Kerry there last time. Gore came close because he was a different kind of candidate and that was also eight years ago.

Hillary ran a very poor race early on and she never recovered from it. So, now the party's gonna suffer.

It's time to get rid of Howard Dean. They'll replace him with Rahm Emmanuel. You watch.

[Yael]

312. I stand with you Kristi

K&R!

[gabby garcia]

314. count me in - or rather under!!!

[Zachstar]

320. You know what? I agree. Im not going to be supporting if the pledged are overturned

#1 Why even have a vote then?

#2 So many voters who voted in good and fair elections (Not states that violated the rules with their populace mostly letting them) Getting told.. NAH The other one can win better.

#3 It violates the point of Superdelegates. Whos swing is meant to prevent a Brittney Spears from getting the nominations. Neither candidate looks too weak for the GE. Therefore they ought to support the pledged delegates.

Before you say this or that super did not go with their state! Keep in mind that if Supers voted based on their state.. Obama would be leading with Supers by now.


#4 The last thing America needs is the impression the big dogs in the party are preventing an African American man to become President. That will cause chaos like no other and the Democratic Party will be destroyed.

[The Blue Flower]

321. Agree 100%

If this is what the Democratic party has become, I am no longer a Democrat. They won't have my time, my money, or my vote.

[natrat]

364. clinton by design has wrecked democratic unity,tell me she doesn't get paid by the junta

[P0pEye]

323. YEAH! I'm with you!

If Obama doesn't get the nomination, I'm voting for Nader!

:grr:

[shadowknows69]

324. I'm with you there Kristi.

[frickaline]

326. You've lost sight of the greater war for want of a small battle

Do you think helping McCain will help with the racial divide?

Please try and remember that half the democrats out there are casting votes for Clinton. This doesn't make them racist, it just means they prefer her as candidate for their own reasons. In the same way, being an Obama supporter doesn't make anyone sexist, they just prefer his candidacy.

I think you are taking the race card a bit too far here. I see no evidence to support your accusations and I think you are simply having an emotional reaction to the possibility that your favored candidate might not win.

[grantcart]

333. And the people on this thread are what makes me proud to be a Democrat

[aquart]

337. "90% for Barack Obama"

Siding with black racism is, of course, always the better choice.

[Barack_America]

352. I sided with those "black racists" when they voted 90% for Kerry too.

Didn't you?

[natrat]

339. part of the democratic party is inextricably tied to neocon corporatists

mcauliffe clinton and the list goes on. So it's not a monolithic front just forces of good and evil fighting it out

[Eric Condon]

343. Rec'd for saying what everyone knows, but no one wants to say.

We all know this to be true, but before we can get in a word about this edgewise, the Hillbots are already trying to stifle dissent by screaming about how we "cry racism."

The fact is, Obama's race IS a big part of Clinton's bullshit "electability" argument. She obviously can't come out and say that, but seeing how much she's courted the votes of ignorant racists in this campaign, it's no big secret.

Obama didn't start out this campaign by talking about race. Only after the Clintons started shooting their mouths off about LBJ being the real catalyst for civil rights, and Jesse Jackson winning SC in '84 and '88, did race enter the campaign the way that it has.

Obama has never once implied that Hillary is "unelectable" because she's a woman. The standard idiot Freeper-type line on Hillary - that she's "going to start PMSing and nuke everybody" - is completely ridiculous, but it's no less ridiculous than the Muslim thing. However, Obama has never said "Hillary's not going to nuke anybody when it's that time of the month - as far as I know." That's because Obama doesn't feel the need to use dirty Rovian tactics. She does, because as this campaign has made abundantly clear, she can't win a fair fight. That's why she's going to go crying to the Super Delegates to fix everything, just like Bu$h did with the Supreme Court in 2000. I can't understand why Hillbots don't see that if she does that, her nomination, candidacy and subsequent presidency would be no more legitimate than Bu$h's.

[ScarletSniper]

358. Excellent Post!!! Excellent.

[JBoy]

345. Got room for a Canadian under your bus?

I can't vote in either case, but I sure won't be cheering from the sidelines for a candidate chosen to avoid offending white racists.

Oh, I will also bring beer.

[grantcart]

347. got beer = under bus

[ProSense]

365. The notion was that blacks are loyal to the Clintons. That's why they decided

it was okay to make hints about drugs and play up associations Farrakhan and ties to terrorists, etc.

The Clintons figured it would play well with a certain segment of the Democratic Party, and that black voters would come back around to Hillary in the GE. A win was worth throwing black support under a bus.

If they're going to keep using the blue-collar white voters to make the electability argument for Hillary, then does anyone believe Hillary can win by disenfranchising black voters?

This is the divisiness that has resulted from Hillary's campaign. This is the Dem primary and we have a candidate trying to link the other to terrorists. I don't care who supports Hillary, no one can tell me this crap is "just politics," and as such it should be accepted.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

370. in the GE when Obama is the candidate the Black vote will really come out

don't worry, even if they didn't get to voting in the Democratic primary they will come out to the polls in November in millions. This could easily tip the balance in the south. Just think how many potential Black voters there are!

[AdamSC]

379. SC could go Democrat...

...don't laugh...but SC could vote for a Democrat this year if Obama is the nominee. Conservatives here still believe that John McCain has an illegitimate child with a black woman thanks to George W. Bush's whisper campaign in the 2000 Republican primary. White people here do not like McCain and will most likely stay at home on election day. (There are Republican's here challenging Lindsey Gram's Senate seat because he is "too liberal for South Carolina"!!!)

Black people, however, are pumped up! Voter registration drives are enormously successful. About 30% of SC is black. All it would take is about about 20-25% of latte liberals (like myself) and this state could swing Democrat.

[AdamSC]

372. Thanks! Bradley Effect?

In all the polls before the Ohio/TX primaries, Obama would actually do better on election day than he was doing in the polls. Then came OH and Obama actually did worse on election day than he was doing in the polls. WHY?

Same happened in PA. Clinton had around a 6 point lead in the polls and then won by 9 points. WHY? What had changed? Nothing other than the demographics of the electorate.

In OH and PA you had a bunch of working class white people voting in large numbers in the primary. They walked into the voting booth and all of those undecided voters said, "I can't just bring myself to vote for the black guy."

I live in SC. The Confederate flag flies over our capital building. But I have never, never seen as many Confederate battle flags in my life as I did when I was once in a small PA town. Racism in the North is alive and doing well. We might as well just admit it.

[HopeforChange]

382. Me too and hundreds more non-blacks that I know of ... n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

384. Hear, HEAR! n/t

[maxpower]

385. I couldn't agree more

I will not support the Dem candidate if they ignore the will of the people. I will gladly lie under the bus with you.

[bjobotts]

386. Only a republican trying to divide the party would post this kind of crap

[bjobotts]

388. Trying to turn your Hillary hate to deomcratic party hate. Obama would tell you to go

screw yourself for making such racists statements. Poor blackman or is it superdelgates just don't like elitist and might give it to Hillary because Obam is elitist...see how stupid your argument is and look at all the hateful comments you engendered. what a shit pile

[Barack_America]

396. "Poor blackman"??

Yes, I am clearly the racist here.

Yes indeed.

Thanks for making that clear.

:eyes:

[scoobiedavis]

394. F-ing-A! You Tell it like it is very succinctly

If Hillary gets the nomination, I will vote for a third party candidate as a protest.

[hedgehog]

402. I'm with you.

[AZBlue]

404. I can't live in a country that can't elect a black man.

I will leave. I survived the Bush Cabal, but that would be the end for me.
K/R

[knixphan]

420. kick for 'America's got a looong way to go'

[Sunnyshine]

421. Get unda tha bus!

Yep, it would be a complete fraud to award her the nomination at this point. Super Del's better be listening up. If Hillary were in the position that Barack's in today, she would be the nominee already. Period. This primary has revealed the ugly double standards some of these insider's keep.

Since Obama is,...well you know,...different, he has to become Superman to get there. Defying the odds and leaping over MSM and DLC buildings in a single bound. Still not enough they say? Well, let's see how weak he gets when we expose him to the old HRC/RNC kryptonite!

As an American that has watched our nation of people's be used as political fodder BY the corporations and their paid media friends to favor the D.C. Elitist, it would be the typical thing to do. Honestly- it is unbelievable that they can not see the looming storm that would darken the brightening horizon of America's future by giving this election to Hillary Republican Clinton.

As a white female, blue collar worker, and Pro-Obama Dem.- I'm willing to work day and night to build us a stronger platform underneath that BIG ass corporate bus, so that we have a safe place to gather up and form a REAL collaboration for change- if, or when, we must jump unda!

NO Dem. should be forced to ride in the back of their hot stuffy GOP handicap bus, AGAIN!

[BigDDem]

424. "racist whites" = whites not for Obama

sounds about right

[Barack_America]

425. Black Voters in Philly React to the PA Primary (VIDEO)

Have a listen to what the Democratic Party's most steadfast voters in PA's Democratic stronghold think about the election.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/elections/Black_supporters_react_to_primary.html

Hope Hillary's not counting on Pennsylvania, should she be the Democratic nominee.

[nomaco-10]

430. I am so glad this thread is....

still on the first page. I read it last night before I went to bed and was hoping it would still be here this afternoon. I guess I was too busy getting a few slams in on hillary to take the time to post my total solidarity with you on this issue. I'm ashamed I didn't react immediately to this wonderful, brave post, but I'm here now to say I'm with you 100%.

[Barack_America]

447. .

:hug:

It's all good. And, thank you.

[TexasObserver]

431. I'm with you! We ran the Wallacites out of the party. Now they're back.

And they're chanting HILLARY!

[moondust]

433. I'm there.

[Bonobo]

435. I'll be under that bus too. Fuck the Democratic Party forever if they do this.

I will be one radical motherfucker if it happens the way Billary is planning it.

BTW, I will not be referring to any single Clinton anymore. Her entire career and campaign is dependent on the Clinton Presidential legacy. To pretend otherwise would be akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "I can't hear you."

They are Billary.

[Mme. Defarge]

436. I'm a 60 year-old white woman and you can

COUNT ME IN!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grouphug:

[mystieus]

444. I love you.

[stevietheman]

438. I will as well -- it is indeed painfully clear that Hillary staying in is all for racist reasons.

What other reason is there but to deny a black man the nomination?

[JoFerret]

439. Those same black voters

...went for Clinton in 1996 and 1992.

So what bus and to where?

Whites who support Clinton are racists?
How about blacks who support Obama because they identify him as of their race?
How about those closet white racists desperate to prove they are not racist by waving an Obama placard?

Your universe has been dumbed down.

It's all a measure more complex.

[maximusveritas]

442. I won't be

I'll be trying to take over the bus. I'm tired of lying down.

[Sunnyshine]

443. After you take over the bus....

Can we make a pit stop to fix it's motor and axle for good. We must get it steering straight again, and then we gotta get this Democratic ride straight to the White House and People's House.
We have a country to fix.

[AJH032]

445. How noble of you

what if they "overturn" (not really though, superdelegates are just as much part of the rules' equation as pledged delegates are, so even if they vote contrarily to the pledged delegates, it is not an overturning) based on something else other than race? What if they just find Hillary more electable, or what if she's leading in popular vote after all primaries have finished?

sorry to interrupt your parade of martyrdom.

[Barack_America]

446. Explain to me a definition of "electability" that doesn't include Obama's race...

...and I'll consider it.

Hillary can say, "let's put a woman in the White House", without a second thought, but Obama saying, "let's put a black man in the White House", would be the end of him.

Explain to me why that is, and why I should condone it.

[WillyT]

448. Kick !!!

:kick:

[Barack_America]

450. Kicking because Russert just asked Dean this on MTP.

And to remind Mr. Russert and Mr. Dean that it's not just black voters the Democratic party risks losing.