What happened to the "only uneducated people vote for Clinton" meme?

[Phillycat]

Because yesterday, that's not at all what was reflected in the exit polls. Let's take a look at a couple of graphs. This is from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#PADEM

Vote by Education Clinton Obama
No High School (5%) N/A N/A
H.S. Graduate (23%) 64% 36%
Some College (25%) 53% 47%
College Grad (21%) 49% 51%
Postgraduate (27%) 53% 47%

So then...postgraduate degrees (27% of those responding, the highest percentage) voted for Clinton by a 6 point margin? But I thought we were all high school drop outs laid off from the steel mill?

Well, this can't be right. Let's look at another one:

Vote by Education Clinton Obama
No College Degree (53%) 58% 42%
College Graduate (47%) 51% 49%

Again, both college educated and non-college educated voters went with Hillary. Huh! That's so weird. I could have sworn everyone here on DU was telling us that we Hillary supporters had no education and that's what accounted for our unexplainable support of our candidate??

Well, suppose we'll just have to figure out another reason.

[Phillycat]

1. Kick?

Or do Obama supporters only like those facts and figures when they are good for their candidate?

[Labors of Hercules]

49. Dunno, Guess that depends on whether you think...

sending a Republican to college makes them "educated". :shrug:

[Joe the Revelator]

2. It was a state that she held a 20+ point lead in. Why are you suprised that she was able to carry

most demographics?

[redqueen]

5. I don't know if it's surprise...

just something to be proud of and try to make the most of.

[northzax]

12. and he had five weeks

five weeks and unlimited funding. against a broke candidate who inspires anger in the grassroots.

he has more money (by about $50 million, and she is flat broke) a higher Q rating, insanely passionate followers (which should translate into a better ground game) and in five weeks he knocked ten points off her lead. that's it. five weeks. fifty million. repeat that to yourself in your sleep.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. And she only had the DLC and the state party machinery

backing her. Oh, AND a TWENTY POINT LEAD GOING IN.

And she takes it by 9.

She not only did not take the 15 point lead she needed, she didn't even break double digits.

It's over. And she knows it.

[northzax]

25. I agree, it probably is over

and we are going to nominate a candidate who hasn't won a primary in a contested state with a run up time. make all the excuses you want. He hasn't beaten Hillary, head to head, in a primary that was contested by them both except for South Carolina, where he needed 95% of the black vote to do so. and South Carolina won't be a blue state in November. We're nominating a guy who can't manage to beat Hillary Clinton.

[Phillycat]

20. Heh.

Well said!

[Joe the Revelator]

69. Thats a damn good result from Obama...

Maybe you don't follow politics that closely.

[PBS Poll-435]

3. K&R - Debunking Yet Another Elitist Meme....nt

[Mudoria]

4. Haven't you heard?

The Obamatons on DU think anyone who doesn't support Obama is either a racist or an uneducated hick.

[Phillycat]

10. Oh, THAT's right! Dammit, I'm late for my Klan meeting, and my brother/husband is outside!

Gotta go!

[NC_Nurse]

6. Maybe your schools aren't very good.

:hide:

I'm kidding, BTW.

[PBS Poll-435]

8. PrintScreened & Alerted ON.

SHAME ON YOU!

:hide:

:rofl:

[Phillycat]

9. Yeah, that's what PA's known for, shitty colleges.

:D

[NC_Nurse]

11. Same here.

;-)

[EFerrari]

7. Hmmm. Better alert the campaign to stop dissing their "base". n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Curious - if all those demographics break for Hillary

HOW COME OBAMA IS WINNING?

Because you are cherry picking from a state that heavily favored her to begin with?

[Phillycat]

17. How the heck am I cherry-picking?

I included the two questions in the exit polls from PA that referred to education, I included the link, I included all data. What else do you want?

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. And if I were to use data from a state that Obama won by an equal

margin, it would show him winning in demographics that normally fall in HER column.

It would prove nothing. It's cherry picking.

And BTW, nobody ever said she get ONLY the votes of the ignorant - just that they predominate with her.

[Phillycat]

28. So, you're basically just talking out of your ass, then.

The data I posted shows clearly that people with less higher education do not "predominate" in Hillary's supporters. You're just making things up.

[LSK]

14. then what explains your support of your candidate??

The whole in bed with lobbyists thing?

or

The whole nuke Iran, never apologize for Iraq, war is good thing?

or

The whole thrown the anti-war/progessive/grassroots movement under the bus thing?

Tell us why you support Clinton again?

[Phillycat]

15. Hmm, let's see. She's brilliant, strong, a tenacious fighter.

She's a policy wonk, has bipartisan support in congress, and concrete plans for realizing her ideas.

And she's running against Obama, a vacuous empty suit liar who likes to hide behind a lie of "hope and change".

It's pretty easy to support her.

[LSK]

30. bipartisan support in what?

How is Obama an empty suit?

What has he lied about?

They all have plans. How is that even a relevant statement?

Yes she is a fighter, apparently she wants to pick a fight with Iran just like she loved starting the fight with Iraq.

[XemaSab]

31. She's got bipartisan Clinton hatred

:hide:

[Phillycat]

32. In order.

1. Bipartisan support: she's had the majority of her proposed legislation pass in congress because she is able to reach across the aisle and achieve bipartisan support. Those connections, not to mention the ones she made with her seat on the Armed Forces Committee, will all help her in the White House.

2. Obama is an empty suit because he is a one-term senator who swore he wouldn't run this election cycle because he was too inexperienced. Nothing changed, except enough sycophants blew smoke up his ass that he now has such an enormous entitlement complex he believes he's owed the presidency.

3. They both have ideas, but I've never heard Obama be able to flesh out his concrete plans to achieve them the way Hillary can. She can explain simply and clearly how to get from A to B. Obama can't because he is too busy spouting platitudes and getting pissy when he's asked questions he doesn't like.

4. Your statements about Iran are ridiculous, as they assume I haven't read the other half of the statement Hillary made regarding Iran...you know, the part about Israel. You don't actually think anyone is falling for that bullshit, do you?

[LSK]

37. in order

1. What bills are you talking about? Again, there is clear evidence that Obama has done the same thing such as Obama-Lugar.

2. Hillary EASILY has the entitlement complex just as much as Obama does (if he does). Gee maybe Obama sees a fucked up country he wants to fix?

3. They both have plans. However, when you are on the stump, you don't want to go deep into policy because you are trying to rally people, not put them to sleep.

4. Regarding Iran, see this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5647386&mesg_id=5647386

[Phillycat]

45. In order.

1. Both have had some measure of bipartisan support, but Hillary's been there longer and understands how things work better.

2. This is perception. We will never agree.

3. We disagree on this. I'm not a moron and I want to understand clearly how my candidate is planning on accomplishing her platform. I don't want to be vaguely inspired. I want FACTS.

4. Iran is not going to nuke Israel. We're not going to nuke Iran. It's called deterrance, and Hillary didn't invent it, nor did she invent our foreign policy re: Israel. If you think a hypothetical President Obama wouldn't use massive retaliatory force against anyone who attacked Israel, you are deluded.

[LSK]

63. one more response

1. I don't want someone who understands how things work in DC, I want someone who thinks they can change how things work. Thats why I was drawn initially to Edwards and now why I am drawn to Obama. There has been way too much legislation written in favor of Corporations instead of in favor of the people. This has gone on during the Clinton era too with NAFTA and the Telecommunication Act and deregulation. Although in his defense some of it was the GOP Congress. Read Thom Hartmann's "Screwed".

How much of this is to blame on lobbyists? Who knows, but they are definately somewhat to blame. Is Hillary guilty of being influenced by them? Who knows? But she is on video saying she would take money from them.

This is what the whole change thing is about. This is the main reason why I do not support her.

2 and 3 nothing more to be said.

4. The point I am making is that there is no doubt that any President would respond to a nuclear attack. The point I am making is why even bring it up?

[Phillycat]

70. Sorry to kick this late, but I wanted to respond to # 4.

She was asked the question directly! What was she supposed to do?

I understand your point in #1 but I suppose I just have a different view. I trust the idea of working on change from the inside, not coming in from the outside and radically trying to change things. I don't think that works. But again, it comes down to differing opinions.

Since we both supported Edwards, I have a feeling we both want what's best for this country. We just each think our candidate can take us there. I respect that.

[LSK]

71. thanks for the response

I guess we will just agree to disagree.

:hi:

[JoFerret]

18. Let's hope it ends the gratuitous slurs

about"uneducated" voters.

[Phillycat]

19. Oh, it won't.

It's going on in other threads right this minute. They're angry about the Hillary victory yesterday and they're lashing out.

[EFerrari]

21. Right. We're OVERWHELMED that Hillary made no progress yesterday

and yet added to her debt. :wtf:

[Beaverhausen]

24. see the lovely "Archie Bunker" thread

[EFerrari]

26. I have seen it. We suck at talking in generalities.

But, we're Americans, after all. That's what we do.

[JoFerret]

68. Raises interesting question about the "base"

Is the base base?

Or is the base the people who have supported the party through the decades. ie. the working class both black and white, and those with a progressive social agenda of all races and classes.

Is the Obama campaign attracting more of the latter and only the African-American segment of the former?

[hfojvt]

23. postgraduate people sometimes make series money

and thus her rightwing economics would appeal to them. They at least will make enough money to benefit from all the tax credits she proposes.

[Phillycat]

27. So wait, which is it? Are we elitist rich fiscal conservatives, or ig'nant hillbillies?

I don't know whether to put on my tailored suit or my overalls!

[hfojvt]

53. Why can't it be both?

tailored overhauls? From Oshkosh b'gosh.

No, I mean the usual Republican coalition. Who else would ardently support a Republican-lite?

[Phillycat]

54. Excellent, you've progressed right to calling your fellow Dems Republicans.

Well done. Supporting the unity candidate, are you?

[hfojvt]

65. no, I am opposing the corporate candidate

the one who has the record (NAFTA, welfare reform) of ignoring the poor and working classes and using rightwing talking points (the era of big government is over, Saddam is a threat, Obama is an elitist). The party is a big tent though, and thus has a right and a left wing.

[Phillycat]

29. Kickety - one more rec and it makes greatest.

Like to get this info out there and this meme killed.

[nichomachus]

33. Love your straw man -- where can I buy one?

But I thought we were all high school drop outs laid off from the steel mill?

Who said this? Link, please.

[Phillycat]

34. I'm not sure how to link the entire GD-P forum.

Probably I don't have enough education.

[nichomachus]

36. I'll settle for one link to one claim

that all Clinton supporters are "high school drop outs laid off from the steel mill"

[Phillycat]

38. Oh, I see, you're being pedantic.

Never mind.

Edited to add: but just to humor you, start here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5647027

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5646791

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5646533

[nichomachus]

39. Asking you to back up a claim is not "pedantic." It's just reason

You built your whole post on the idea that there was a "meme" that only high-school dropouts who had been laid off from mill voted for Hillary.

I've never seen that meme. I asked you to back up the main assertion in your post. Apparently, you can't.

If not, your post is just nonsense.

[Phillycat]

40. See my edit.

[Phillycat]

42. And to be very clear because you're acting like an ass...

the premise of my thread was the TITLE of my thread. The "Hillary's voters are uneducated" meme. The "laid off mill workers" was a humorous comment that anyone who wasn't determined to be a pedantic dick would have recognized as such. LORD.

Now go look at those threads.

[nichomachus]

46. It's still logically flawed

Even if "all millworkers vote for Clinton," it doesn't mean that all people who vote for Clinton are millworkers. That's simple logic. You stated it as if that were the case. That's the straw man. You made up a false statement and then argued against it.

[Phillycat]

47. OMG, are you actually this stupid?

:rofl:

[nichomachus]

48. But you do exhibit the typical charm of the Clinton supporters

[RaleighNCDUer]

75. No. Your premise is the strawman meme that Hillary supporters

are ONLY the uneducated - and nothing you've presented since supports that meme.

That's because it is a lie. You know it. We know it.

The reality is, Hillary has a larger percentage of support among the uneducated than does Obama. The more education, the less likely to support Hillary. That doesn't mean that ONLY the educated support Obama OR that ONLY the igorant support Hillary.

Hillary draws on many other demographics. The vapid. The insane. The republican trolls. The authoritarians.

BTW, look up the word "pedantic". I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Pawel K]

35. Why don't you pull up the national numbers for these figures if you want to be disappointed

or you can pretend that PA, where she help a 20 point lead not that long ago, is representative of the entire country you are free to do that.

Nobody is saying any of the stuff you posted in your OP. So I have no clue what you are talking about.

[Phillycat]

41. Nobody is saying that stuff..

Mm-hmm.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5647027

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5646791

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5646533

[Phillycat]

51. Hello? Any response?

No? Okay then.

[Pawel K]

64. Some people have to work

I wish I could sit here all day so I could respond at your convenience but I do have a job, wll at least for now. With the way Clinton is conducting this campaign Mccain might very well win next November and if we have 8 more years of this shit I might not have this good job any more. But I digress.

The posts you pointed to, with the exception of the last one, were all started by people with less than 1000 posts. One of them had under 100. So I really fail to see your point when you see this is some kind of meme.

And have you looked at the other exit polls like I asked you to?

Here is an example. This is a misleading example but then again so was your PA example:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#ILDEM

[Shakespeare]

43. Does that mean Hillary supporters will drop the "elitist" bullshit?

Just wondering.

[Phillycat]

44. You find me one single example of my calling Obama supporters elitists

and I'll donate $100 to his campaign.

[Shakespeare]

50. Did I say YOU specifically? No, I did not.

And you know quite well that it's been thrown around endlessly by Hillary supporters. Usually with modifiers like "latte-sipping."

[Phillycat]

52. I've always thought that was really stupid too.

But it doesn't cancel out the meme I'm debunking in this thread. Assholes on both sides in this contest.

[EFerrari]

55. So, curious. What do you make of the Clinton campaign forwarding this meme?

Because that's where it came from. Holy cow. Don't you get the memos?

Hillary is "in touch" with working people even when she says "screw 'em" and then throws the party grassroots under the bus.

[Phillycat]

56. Riiight. It was Hillary's campaign that called me a racist hick today.

Hillary's campaign that posted the "Archie Bunker" thread. Hillary's campaign that told every Democrat who voted for her yesterday that we are either racist or hillbillies.

Man, Hillary's campaign is the new Clenis! You can blame it for everything!

[EFerrari]

57. Or you can hold it responsible.

But I'm just a San Francisco liberal so maybe I'm out of touch myself. :hi:

[Phillycat]

58. I'm a Philadelphia liberal. Far left liberal. And I voted for Hillary.

And I still don't know wtf you're talking about. It was right here on DU I was told in no uncertain terms that if I voted for Hillary I was either stupid or racist. Over and over again. There are threads about it RIGHT NOW.

[EFerrari]

60. And what does that have to do with the education level of Clinton supporters?

The Clinton campaign was the moving party in that meme. Maybe you're talking to the wrong people.

Maybe you should contact the Clinton campaign and tell them to stop stereotyping their supporters?

[Shakespeare]

59. Agree completely.

I'm not an Obama supporter, btw. Just really, really sick of the nonsense by both sides.

[EFerrari]

61. The nonsense on both sides is not even.

That's a Faux characterization. The Obama campaign never sought to marginalize Clinton as the woman candidate.

They never brought up the lengthy and public history of Clinton cronyism.

They never brought up the years of "experience" that Clinton was claiming as her own while she at the same time distanced herself from the horrible policy that hurt working people.

Careful.

[Shakespeare]

62. Oh, I didn't say I thought it was even.

I agree with you. Both on DU and off, I think it's been much uglier for the Obama campaign.

[EFerrari]

66. "What a piece of work is Man."

-- Hamlet

[Aloha Spirit]

67. It's a stoopid meme, and I'm glad you're trashing it, but the CNN numbers have been

moved around since yesterday. Kinda weird.
I'll see your CNN exit poll and raise you a NYT exit poll
http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/vote-polls/PA.html
Pct. of total______________ Clinton Obama__
23 High school graduate ______64_____36
25 Some college/ass. deg._____51_____49
21 College graduate _________46_____53
26 Postgraduate study _______48_____52

Comparing the two exit polls makes me think they're both fairly worthless.....

[mrreowwr_kittty]

72. Guess the racism is stronger than the college learnin' in PA.

Just slightly, though.

[Phillycat]

73. Thank you for being all the stereotypes of an Obama supporter in one neat package.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

74. I think racism sucks.

If that makes me a stereotype, so be it.