Bill Clinton urging Hillary's campaign to make stronger attacks on Obama.

[madfloridian]

He is apparently playing an increasingly powerful role in her campaign. This first article even implies he is the one working closely with Mark Penn, who was supposedly demoted.

A former president urging stronger attacks...something is wrong with that picture. Most former presidents play a classier role than that.

From the WSJ:

He's Back.

Dubbed the "Billification" of Sen. Clinton's campaign by some insiders, Mr. Clinton has become something of a strategist-in-chief in recent weeks. He has been pushing for harder and sharper attacks on Sen. Obama. While she has jabbed her opponent over his "elitist" tone and controversial statements by his former pastor, Mr. Clinton delivers his own slams on the stump, calling Obama ads misleading. Mr. Clinton has placed several of his own aides at headquarters, including his former lawyer and a bevy of strategists. Known as a bad loser, Mr. Clinton privately buttresses his wife's drive to push on, telling her, according to aides: "We're not quitters."

On his own daily message calls, advisers say, he implores: "We've got to take him on every time." At the Clintons' Washington, D.C., home recently, these people say, he reviewed possible TV spots and told ad makers to be more hard-hitting, faster and harsher.

Mr. Clinton also told the campaign to double the number of his daily appearances. "Look at this schedule -- you've got me down for four events," he said the week before Pennsylvania's primary, according to one operative. "Give me six, eight a day. Get me to the suburbs where I can make a difference."

The article suggests that his increased role is causing tension. These remarks about Mark Penn were enlightening.

Mr. Clinton's influence is evident in pollster Mark Penn's continuing role in the campaign. Sen. Clinton recently demoted Mr. Penn as her chief strategist after he took part in talks with Colombia's U.S. ambassador over promoting a free-trade pact with the U.S. that she opposes.

However, Mr. Penn has helped in recent debate preparation, and proposed Sen. Clinton's last-minute negative ad in Pennsylvania questioning whether Sen. Obama has "what it takes."

He is saying some fairly unfair things about the DNC and how they are handling the FL and MI delegates. Further, he insulted the New Hampshire Secretary of State, Bill Gardner.

From the New Hampshire Business Review:

Bill's Story Time

Consider one of his latest creations, involving his wife’s presidential campaign’s desperate efforts to convince people that the powers-that-be in Florida and Michigan had no idea that the Democratic National Committee would actually stick to its guns and refuse to seat those states’ delegates if they insisted on holding their presidential primaries outside the DNC’s voting “window.” (Actually, considering the DNC’s recent mealy-mouthed past, you can’t blame Florida and Michigan for having their doubts, but life can play tricks on you.)

The ex-president’s most recent foray into rewriting history came on March 24, when he appropriately spoke before a South Bend, Ind., Dyngus Day celebration. There, according to a report in The Hotline, Clinton actually referred to “this new strategy of denying and disempowering and disenfranchising the voters in Florida and in Michigan” – a “strategy” he called “a terrible mistake.” Not for nothing, but didn’t his wife sign up for a front seat on the No Florida or Michigan Bandwagon back in the days of her inevitability?

Then, Clinton being Clinton, he deftly threw something under the bus, this time New Hampshire and Secretary of State Bill Gardner. He told the crowd that the DNC “let New Hampshire go out of turn,” a cake to which he added the mysterious, highly questionable, icing of claiming that for some reason the Granite State got special privileges because Gardner is a Democrat.

“The Florida voters are totally innocent,” the spinmeister said. “They asked to vote on time.”

There you have it, history in the making.

He called what the DNC did when it enforced the rules....a "new strategy of denying and disempowering and disenfranchising the voters in Florida and in Michigan”

The former Democratic president actually accused the DNC of having a plan to disempower and disenfranchise the voters in two states.

The NHBR column is right. The former president just rewrote history.

[DJ13]

1. He is a real dissapointment as a former President

The guy has absolutely no class.

[sushi]

I would say

that he has made mistakes, yes, but it's his wife, and it must have been very difficult for him to say nothing. When he disagrees with something, I guess before he knows it, he has answered. After all, he was the leader not long ago. Imagine yourself in his place, and your wife is running for the office you once held.

[blm]

16. I wouldn't mind so much if they EVER used their skills to OPPOSE BushInc instead of other Democrats

as often as they do.

Seriously - can anyone name one time in the last 8 years when TeamClinton thought that opposing Bush and attacking HIS policies was worth a full on attack from them using all their so-called 'talent' for the fight?

[roguevalley]

25. his change is too odd and may be the result of his surgery. people

who have bypass surgery have brain damange. they don't tell you about that but it happens and personalities often change. bill is sick and I think this is the result. too sad for words.

[PoliticalAmazon]

39. He's jealous. Pure and simple. Obama's performance at hoops yesterday...

...must have put Bill over the top.

Talk about a stark contrast between candidates.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5508035&mesg_id=5508035

[AZ Criminal JD]

47. What bullshit.

He doesn't agree with you so it must be because of brain damage due to a bypass? What matchbox cover did you get your medical degree from?

[youngharry]

61. Clinton Bullshit

I'll second that. Bill Clinton is morally and intellectually dishonest. The bottom line is that Bill Clinton is nothing more than the Repubs stated he was--slick Willy, a piece of of lying shit!

[AZ Criminal JD]

75. Go over to the free republic. They have an opening for you.

[Raine]

70. Yeah why let him off the hook by blaming surgery

I'm thinking the guy was always a 1st class jerk but now it's too obvious to be ignored and impossible to defend. :-(

[Guaranteed]

50. He's definitely changing. nt

[madfloridian]

74. He really is different

This new version of the Clintons is disturbing.

[Maine-ah]

2. I'd like to see more attacking McSame

instead of all this inside bull shit.

[The Magistrate]

5. Hear Hear, Ma'am!

[EFerrari]

12. No kidding. Meanwhile, McCain is going around saying Hamas

endorses Obama. :grr:

[lisa58]

15. That would be the correct way to play it if....

...they really wanted to show the SD's "which candidate would be stronger against McCain" but instead they're making it look like 2012 is their goal.

[shadowknows69]

21. The best thing Hillary could have done is take the high road from the get go

She was the presumptive nominee before it even started, it's her own foot/mouth disease that started her downfall, and the adept mouth of her hubby.

[merh]

3. Sure, send Clinton out to make fun of folks over 60 who

can't be held accountable for their statements after 11pm. :eyes:

[madfloridian]

38. Heh heh...

He really goofed on that one, didn't he. :hi:

[merh]

40. And the press has decided it didn't matter

that bill mocked the over 60's crowd, allegedly a huge part of their base.

It is amazing that someone actually posted an entire thread suggesting that obama supporters don't like the elder white folks while ignoring bill's assault.

[Unsane]

4. He's having post-heart bypass dementia.

I read an artcle the other day about. People who underg heart bypass surgery often have accompanying mental problems following surgery because of the lack of air/blood to the brain during the operation.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

7. I'm afraid that might be true... he no longer sounds like the 170 + IQ Pres that we knew

I never thought I would hear Bill Clinton say or do some of the things he has been
doing in the past year.

I used to sit in awe and was thrilled to watch him speak on tv.

Used to be proud of him.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Pride cometh before the Fall

In the story of Nebuchadnezzar we see that pride,
mingled with jealousy and a proud spirit can produce
a potent cocktail able to reduce even the greatest of kings to a bestial demeanor.

[EFerrari]

17. But the hell of losing cognitive function is that sometimes

you don't know it's happening.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. I see no change in his behavior

It was a vintage Bill performance. Say something false, then deny you said it, while blaming the person who's telling the truth. It may not be convincing, but it's mighty entertaining. Also Hunter Thompson thought
that Bill had a deeply vengeful side, but mostly against his party and friends.

[EFerrari]

29. I never thought Bill was a saint, that's for sure. But there are times

when he just seems lost. Well, we'll find out. I'd almost rather he be a sonuvabitch than be facing something like that.

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. He has caught the disease of

Bushitis

[Liberal Veteran]

56. The real quote is: Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall

Either way, it is starting to describe the Clintons.

[cliffordu]

13. I saw something on the television that said the same thing -

It sure sounds like what COULD be happening with bill -

I'm not just being mean, either - he is NOT the same as he used to be.

[Carolina]

41. I'd agree with this explantion if his mental problems didn't

appear to be so conveniently selective. His and HRC's bile is targeted solely at Obama. Hmmmm.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

6. Bill's talking out of his "neck" again, NH's state law requires them to go first

I've documented this before.

Bill must be getting senile or something. I've heard that
this sort of thing sometimes happens after the type of surgery he had.

He's just not the same high IQ sharp guy he used to be.

Its a shame.

New Hampshire (primaries) and Iowa (Caucuses) have state laws requiring them to
go first. Each doesn't care if the other goes ahead of them because they have different
processes.

The DNC (a committee folks, not a one man band) voted to have a few small diverse states go
first.

The DNC also stated that they didn't want to "front load" the primaries with a bunch of big states,
because it would keep alot of good candidates from running.

Front loading benefits the big money candidates.

[lapfog_1]

8. to think I used to defend him to everyone I knew...

even with a lot of the corporatist policies (welfare reform, NAFTA, MFN for China, etc, etc) that his presidency was responsible for.

But after he left office, he started being great pals with GWH Bush and the BFEE.

And Hillary used her fame to get elected to the Senate, not bothering to run for any lesser office first and gain real experience.

And the deals he made to earn all that money.

The Clintons and the Carvilles deserve each other... and they are jointly playing the Progressives and Democrats for fools... they think this is just a game. And they think that because they have been bought and paid for by our corporate masters.

[CatnHat]

67. Bill Clinton

has done more for this country than any other modern president.

The Obama supporters keep saying how Hillary is beating up on poor Obama--guess it's ok for the Obama supporters to beat up on formal president who has done more for the middle class and poor and continues to do so; i.e., The Clinton Initiative helping Katrina victims; raising millions of dollars to help the poor; raising money for HIV/Aids victims; etc.; and this is his payback.

Carville and the Clinton's tell it like it is--like Harry Truman says: if you can't take the heat----. Obama has nothing left but playing the victim and blame game.

Yeah, real great--tear down a president who really has helped our country!!--- to build up your sorry candidate.

[tishaLA]

9. He likes the old politics

Which tear people down and don't build the nation--to say nothing of the Democratic Party--up.

[caledesi]

20. I agree! NT

[The Magistrate]

22. There Is No New Politics, Ma'am

The New Yorker once had a cartoon that has stuck with me for nigh on fifty years: it shows a bunch of ad-men sitting around a big table, the one at the head of it brandishing a box aloft and crying out "The 'NEW!' on the package, that's what's new!"

Sen. Obama's now famous chief strategist, Mr. Axelrod, is well known locally here in Chicago and in Illinois, and no one has ever accused him being anything but a hard operative who knows how the thing is done and always has been done. Sen. Obama enjoys the dedicated support of the Daley machine here: the Mayor's banker brother is often seen on national television as a campaign spokesman. The old pols of Chicago do many things, but 'new politics' mercifully is not among them. Bear in mind this is, coming from me, hardly criticism of Sen. Obama, but rather praise, and that on two levels. One, for having put over this "The 'NEW!" on the package' image with such success, and two, for having his campaign so thoroughly under-girded by solid practitioners of the ancient craft.

[zulchzulu]

10. I'm all for Bill Clinton coming out to campaign more for his wife

He does nothing but hurt her campaign, sending it off message and reminding people why they think he's a scumbag.

Step up to the microphone, Bill. We're recording you.

:rofl:

[hughee99]

24. It doesn't matter if you're recording him...

the next day he'll still claim he never said it and say he's not going to "play this game".

[gateley]

11. A pundit on Olbermann's show

predicted HRC's campaign was going to ratchet up the nasty.

[ErinBerin84]

18. Bill more than anyone does not want a democrat in the

White House, if it cannot be Hillary. He knows that Obama being in the White House would diminish his "legacy".

This reminds me of John Stewart's interview with Larry King, when he discussed that most former presidents (I forget the exception that he gave) seem to become really neurotic and angry, like "They were wrong about me! The things they said!"

I remember recently, a pundit was discussing about being at a campaign event for Hillary a while ago (before Iowa I believe), and Bill was talking about how it is an adjustment going from being president to "former president". He said that he was used to everyone clapping when he walks into a room, and he missed it. He was joking, but I think it's kind of emblematic.

[americanstranger]

32. You can tell that's true by looking at what he says on the stump.

I just read an article this morning where he took Obama to task for 'distorting his record.'

He spends as much time on the stump justifying the actions of his own administration as he does pitching his wife as a candidate.

That's not right, when you consider that he's trying to frame his wife's candidacy in the terms of his own accomplishments.

Muddying the waters, IMO.

- as

[Triana]

19. They've lost it - IF they ever had it and that is...

....the bigger picture about what their Republican penchant to "win at ANY cost" is going to COST the party, the process, and the DEMOCRATS IN NOVEMBER.

WHERE is their loyalty to and respect for the party and to this COUNTRY? What about doing what's best for THE COUNTRY? The PARTY?

Oh. That's right. They don't have any loyalty or regard.

The ONLY loyalty or regard the Clintons have - is to/for CLINTONS.

[KaptBunnyPants]

26. Clinton = Bush.

I would have laughed in the face of someone who said that last year. But it's true, he lies like I breathe.

[bbgrunt]

27. ...shades of what is to come if she is coronated. nt

[Chalco]

28. Yes, he's a former president and they usually stay out of it,

but in this case he's the spouse of a presidential candidate. Has this situation every happened before? No. So, this case is different. The old "rule" or practice does not apply.

[madfloridian]

37. To me it is about class and taste. What he is doing is neither.

.

[BlueIdaho]

30. What a disappointment this man is

A real POS.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. ...

:eyes:

[Beregond2]

31. My disgust

with Bill began when he started cozying-up to Dubya. At this point, I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire.

[Bensthename]

33. There is no stopping the Clinton's until McCain is elected..

Hillary '12

[starroute]

35. Do the Clintons have secrets to hide?

I *really* don't like the thoughts I'm thinking, but the longer this Clinton folie a deux lasts, the darker my theories get as to why they're persisting.

Now I'm starting to wonder if there are things that Bill and Hillary desperately don't want to have come out. If the Bush administration has protected them because it's just one more aspect of protecting itself, and McCain -- the guy who's sitting on 95% of the Abramoff emails -- can be trusted to do the same. If their alliance with Murdoch and Scaife is also part of a pattern of self-protection.

An Obama administration that genuinely means to open the windows and let the light in on all the dirty dealing of the last 20 years could be something that genuinely terrifies the Clintons. And a Hillary presidency might be their only way to make sure all the secrets stay secret.

As I say -- I don't enjoy even thinking these thoughts. But as the Clintons grow even more desperate and heedless, I start to wonder.

[dansolo]

43. That is my feeling as well

George W. Bush signed an executive order within the first few days of being "elected" giving the sitting president the authority to block the release of any previous president's papers. He was covering for his father no doubt, but he was also covering for Clinton. I expect Hillary or McCain to continue that.

[Solomon]

45. Got a point. I never thought about this aspect of it.

They really are pretty cozy with the Bushes. One hand washes the other.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. Exactly why VP is a no-no, as well. nt

[Life Long Dem]

42. You mean from his flatbed trailer in the parking lot,

of a stadium, in which Obama is inside a stadium speaking to the thousands, Clinton is yelling attack Obama more?

I'd like a picture of that. :rofl:

[Vinca]

44. Proof the Clintons are thinking of themselves over everything else. nt

[my3boyz]

46. He must really owe some BIG favors to those library donors! He seems to want it even more than she

does (if that is possible!).

[Terri S]

48. The shame about all this, is that it could have been different

I really could have been. Hillary Clinton is indeed a strong, intelligent woman who could have run on her strengths. Bill Clinton was a widely respected former President who could have been an asset to her campaign. Instead the seemier side to both have completely destroyed the respect many ever had in either of them.

We had one of the best line-ups against the sorry offerings of the Republicans this time, and yet people of integrity were drowned out by the Clinton machine. In an election year where Democrats so outshined the Republicans, our primary has been dragged through the gutter by a couple more concerned with their political careers than the country.

[barack the house]

49. You see a big contrast when you seE Carter working for peace and Hillary talking of nuking Iran.

[madfloridian]

51. You speak truth. Her use of the words nuclear and obliterate...

were not meant to appeal to Democrats. They were extreme words.

[madfloridian]

52. They are using FL and MI as tools for their campaign...it is blatant now

I have my doubts as to when the two states got on board with moving up ahead of February 5th. I think it was earlier on than any of us knew, but we were naive.

It is a shameful thing to do, to use the party and its people that way...to misrepresent what was done. It is a shameful thing to say you accept party rules, then when it is inconvenient...to turn your back on them.

FL and MI are now being used as tools by the Clinton campaign.

There is such a pathetic letter in a paper in our area today. It is fairly typical of the uninformed Florida Democratic voter. Uninformed partly because of the media. But mostly misinformed by a former president and his wife who are saying they have been disenfranchised.

There is a letter like this about every day now. I blame the Clinton's campaign for Florida delegates for this. They should be ashamed.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080426/NEWS/428706275/1037/EDIT

"If my vote does not count for the Jan. 29 primary, I feel I am cheated out of my vote in Florida.

I was a Marine and served in Korea. I was also chairman in a own Democratic Committee.

What I have to say is if they don't count my vote, I will vote for Sen. McCain. All Democrats in Florida should do the same to show our votes do count."

[GoesTo11]

53. They will do or say anything to win

Go away, Bill.

[Why Syzygy]

54. So my sympathy was wasted on Bill during blowjobgate. hmm

When someone is this nasty in public, I wonder what they say in whispers.

[speedoo]

55. Bill needs another b---job.

I am disgusted with everyone named Clinton. Including Chelsea who is old enough by now to know that her parents are out of control.

[Irishonly]

58. Very Big Sigh of Disgust

It may be unchartered territory but the attack mode is damaging. The goal is a democrat in the WH and to get the country back on track.

[Sam Ervin jret]

59. Chelsea needs to come out with her book and put an end to this nightmare

You know she wants to get out of the light of the media and get her own life away from these two huge egos.

A nice "tell all" will set her free and end the BushCo/Clinton Dynasties.

I've seen out of control parents before but these two must be a never ending nightmare for her.

[Cha]

60. Is this like when bil clinton

sent ..The First Lady into the dangerous situations?

<snip>

.."Threat of bullets? Sinbad doesn't remember that, either."

"I never felt that I was in a dangerous position. I never felt being in a sense of peril, or 'Oh, God, I hope I'm going to be OK when I get out of this helicopter or when I get out of his tank.'"

In her Iowa stump speech, Clinton also said, "We used to say in the White House that if a place is too dangerous, too small or too poor, send the First Lady."

Say what? As Sinbad put it: "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

More..
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html

[atjrpsych]

62. the last thing we need now is more division

I really just want a democrat to win the November election, however I am getting scared when I see all of the "splitting" that is going on during the primary. It is this style of politics that has contributed to the mess this country is in now, and is a dangerous tactic for any of the candidates. The last thing we need right now is four more years of polarization and nothing getting done in congress or the senate. I wish our candidates would see the bigger picture and realize that sometimes it is how you play the game.

[Infinite Hope]

63. Come on Bill, give us another dumb-assed gaffe!!! n/t

[BzaDem]

64. Except NH did go out of turn, and the DNC let them.

[Eurobabe]

65. I officially HATE Bill Clinton, he's lost my respect

but it started to slip when he lied to the American people in the late 90s, re: Monica. :mad:

[CatnHat]

68. Obama and his

supporters have disrespected the democratic party to the max. If Obama and his supporters are that unhappy, maybe then, find your own party; picking your fights with former democratic presidents who have truly helped our country is despicable.

[davidpdx]

66. MF, thanks for pointing out that article

I think Bill Clinton is slowly but surely on track to trash his own legacy. It's sad that a former president, revered by so many has stooped to the level he has. If they do go even more negative then they already are, they are shooting themselves in the foot. This will only push the super delegates more over the edge and end the race.

[CatnHat]

69. Don't be so sure

If Obama loses super delegates; he himself is the one to blame. It's amazing to see that Obama is just NOT held accountable; if he loses; automatically it's Bill or Hillary Clinton's fault. Typical Obama thinking. Obama will lose on his own stupid remarks; his judgment, his arrogance (we already have that in the WH); and his unelectability in states that are vital in November. That's the reality.

[davidpdx]

71. The truth is I said nothing about Obama losing

so your spin is just that. The subject is (and was) Bill Clinton trashing his own legacy. I've stated often that I voted for him twice and campaigned for him 1996. To simply sit there and deny the super delegates aren't watching the party get trashed is living in a bubble. In the end, believe what you want to. Please don't come crying to me later for sympathy.

[madfloridian]

72. Bill Clinton is ruining his own legacy as president.

He is acting in a very cheap and tawdry way toward Obama and toward the rest of the party.

[livetohike]

73. The Clinton's style of politics is so yesterday

Right now, they are just in it for themselves, imo.