'Bill is not the same': The dangers of lengthy heart bypass surgery.

[denem]

A couple of weeks ago, many here were rightly offended by a post an article titled 'Bill Clinton;s Madness. Here is a non-political report by the BBC on the dangers of lengthy cardiac surgery:

Brain damage risk from slow heart ops
BBC News, Sunday, 5 March, 2000

The length of time taken to operate is crucial.

Lengthy heart operations increase the risk of subtle long-term brain problems caused by tiny fat particles lodging in the brain, experts have found.

The research team has measured for the first time the precise number of these tiny particles which break free, travel in the blood, then stick in the brain.

And they found that patients who spent the longest time attached to heart bypass machines had many more than those whose operations were completed more quickly.

For every extra hour spent on the bypass machine, the amount of "microemboli", as the particles are called, almost doubled...

The team wrote: "Current estimates indicate that more than 50% of patients who undergo bypass grafting have neurologic or neuropsychological deficits during the first week after surgery.

"Ten to 30% have long-term or permanent deficits and between 1% and 5% suffer severe disability or death."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/665400.stm

[DJ13]

1. ........or, it could be he's always been a jerk, but hid it before now

:shrug:

[ccharles000]

4. Bill is a kind man.

[movonne]

10. I like the way you always have something nice to say about the

Clinton's. I really mean this, not being sarcastic..and this is from a Obama supporter...the posts I have seen from you, you never make mean remarks about Obama..

[ccharles000]

20. Thank you.

:hug:

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Which Was Kinder?

Executing the mentally retarded prisoner, or kidnapping people to be tortured abroad (aka "extraordinary renditions"),

[Yossariant]

42. Ya mean that cop-killer who attempted suicide by shooting himself in the head?

[BlueIdaho]

17. I say

He did inhale. And so did she.

[marshall]

39. We're all jerks down deep, he's just lost his ability to control it

He's like Sophia on The Golden Girls, after she had that stroke and would say whatever cockamamy thing would come to her mind.

But really I don't think he's that different than any of us.

[tigereye]

44. I've seen him speak recently

and he's still quite sharp.

I don't think dementia is approaching anytime soon.

[SunsetDreams]

2. I'm an RN, and until a doctor who has actually examined him

says this, it's nothing but speculation and frankly is seen by me as a way to try and explain his actions.


A doctor who examines him, needs to make this statement. NOT a doctor who hasn't ever laid eyes on him other than TV.

Real tests have to be performed, such as an EEG, or and MRI of the brain to make that diagnosis.

Anything less, is frankly irresponsible speculation.

[Skittles]

5. you know it, Sunset

:thumbsup:

[movonne]

7. I saw another article on this ...I'm not sure but it could have been The Hill..

It was saying that people close to bill had thought he had changed or didn't seem as sharp..and then it went on about this operation could be the reason..

[EFerrari]

8. There is nothing irresponsible about trying to make sense of your experience.

Not a thing.

While M.D.s have the license to diagnose, responsible people use their own brains to gather information and to come to conclusions. The medical profession doesn't have a corner on that market.

[SunsetDreams]

11. I'll agree with that, but when a person

tries to attach a medical reason for his actions, without having examined him with the proper tests, then it is speculation.

If it was a social reason being speculated, I have no issue with that, it is subject to interpretation by society at large, based on our experiences.

A medical reason, especially one as serious as that, needs to be left to physicians aided by medical tests, otherwise it is pure speculation and is irresponsible.

[EFerrari]

15. It is in no way irresponsible to try to find a plausible solution to a problem.

I can see how it would be objectionable to try to slam President Clinton in some way by tagging him with a pseudo medical label a la right wing.

That would be irresponsible. That would be reprehensible. That clearly isn't happening here.

Many of us have noticed that Bill Clinton's performance has changed, even deteriorated. And some of us would rather think about it than simply attack him like trolls.

And, I got my brain at birth. I'm free to speculate as much as I want until the Department of Homeland Security gives me a lobotomy.

Not to mention, the whole category "medical reason" is a construct. And frankly, I've known too many doctors, lol, to feel any kind of reverence for it whatsoever.

[SunsetDreams]

22. I have noticed the personality "change"

in Bill Clinton as well. I don't know if it's due to medical reasons or maybe his passion as a Husband coming out for his wife.

We tend to protect the ones we love at all costs, and go to great lengths to do it.

I'm not attacking him at all, I am stating from a medical standpoint what I know to be true. It very well could be due to his bypass surgery, but I cannot support that without evidence such as tests.

Where is his actual heart surgeon speaking out on this?

Why is it that a Physician who claims to have "interviewed" his heart surgeon speaking out? One who hasn't looked at the evidence himself. I find this suspicious.

Frankly it isn't fair to Bill Clinton, to have someone saying this about him publicly. Did Bill Clinton agree to it? There is patient confidentiality to consider here.

If this is not true, I would fully support Bill Clinton suing the Physician who is making these claims.

[EFerrari]

25. People take advantage of the position of public figures.

Just as public figures take advantage of their positions to forward their agenda.

I really don't care about some shyster trying to make a buck by doing a Frist on Clinton.

And I don't need a degree in medicine to notice the deficits and to worry and wonder about them.

What really concerns me, as just a person, is that in the middle of all this tumult, Bill Clinton may not be getting attended to as he might be if his life was less subject to public pressures. And, that would be a shame.

I'd much rather be furious with him if I knew for a fact that he was healthy and in good hands. lol

[SunsetDreams]

30. I hear you sfex,

I guess I'm speaking more in a protective mode of patients right now due to patient confidentiality.

I'll be the first to admit that I feel let down by the Clintons, but I am in no way heartless if there truly is a medical reason for it.

I just can't medically make that jump, without facts.

I guess that's a drawback from being in this profession, we like our facts lol

I am sure the schedule that he has had to keep, can't be good for him. I have worried about him on several occasions. From an observation standpoint, he hasn't looked well the last few years.

I have also wondered about his BP levels because it seems more and more, his face is just beat red.

[EFerrari]

32. It's hard to maintain any level of privacy when you're always in the public eye.

The flip side is, by being in the public eye, you subject yourself to public scrutiny. Been there, surfed the buffet.

He looks so fragile sometimes and what comes out of his mouth just doesn't jive with that so very smart man many of us came to take for granted. Here's hoping he is getting good care.

[SunsetDreams]

33. I agree,

I hope he is getting the care he needs with regular checkups.

He deserves nothing less!

[sakura]

29. Well said.

[charlie]

23. Larry McMurtry wrote a fascinating account

of his radical change following heart bypass. He was once a consummate bookaholic. Writing pained him because it took away from his book collecting/reading time. Managing his bookstores pained him because it took away from his writing time. His happy immersion in literature stopped cold after the surgery. He couldn't muster an interest in either reading or writing and it so distressed him, he spent over a year in a room at his friend's house doing nothing except stewing in his lassitude.

[EFerrari]

28. Physicality happens.

Damn.

[QC]

3. Ah, a graduate of the Bill Frist School of Telediagnosis.

The freepers used to post this sort of thing back in the late 90s. I guess it really is true that whatever goes out of style comes back sooner or later.

[BlueIdaho]

6. Looks like his dignity was the first casualty.

And his compassion took a close second.

[denem]

9. How many more reputable studies do you want.?

"The research, which appears in the current issue of the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease (http://www.j-alz.com), pinpoints stress and trauma of the surgery as the major cause for the increased risk.

Led by Benjamin Wolozin, MD, PhD, professor of pharmacology at BUSM, researchers compared 5,216 people who underwent coronary artery bypass graft surgery (CABG) and 3,954 people who had a percutaneous transluminal coronary angioplasty (PTCA) in 1996 and 1997. Over the course of five years, 78 of the patients who had bypass surgery and 41 of those who had angioplasty developed Alzheimer's disease."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/08/050825072235.htm

NONE of these particular studies has been posted by Freepers, Monosyllable political hit pieces are more their style. None of these papers, are contain sort of speculation about President Clinton.

[bluestateguy]

12. I have no idea if it has anything to do with his surgery

But it's very evident that Bill Clinton's campaigning skills are not what they once were in the 1990's.

[goclark]

43. Surgery or not there is a bitterness and an anger that I don't

remember.

I have met Bill Clinton and he was charming and calm.

Now we see him flying off the hook and turning on people that loved him.

We don't have to be MD's to use our eyes and realize that something is not the same.

He is different and it is not pretty.

[Rene]

14. Happened to my son - heart operation to repair mitral valve

then he developed staph infection and they had to open chest again...debride the sternum...leave chest open for 3 days and do a muscel flap to close. Intensive antibiotic therapy. He's struggled with his memory ever since. NONE of the Dr's told him what happens to the brain during bypass.....either before or after. He mentioned it in a Heart Surgery support group meeting and everyone piped in with their own experiences. He finally learned what was happening with his memory.....both short and long term. It's a struggle all the time.

[BlueIdaho]

19. I am sorry to hear that.

Be well.

[Joe the Revelator]

16. I'm not a fan of this line of attack...

Be careful when you fight monsters.....you know the rest

[QC]

18. Thank you! n/t

[EFerrari]

21. I don't think it is an attack. Some of us are mad at the Clintons

AND notice a difference in the president. Imagine that.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. Yeah but to blame it and attack him for having heart surgery is morbid and unnecessary

If you pay attention at all, you know that I hate the Clintons more then most. This thread is just stupid.

[EFerrari]

26. Who is attacking him for having heart surgery?

I'm sorry, I don't see that at all.

[Joe the Revelator]

31. Its an obvious low blow.

[EFerrari]

34. I sure don't read it that way -- but then, my viewpoint isn't mainstream DU.

:)

[McCamy Taylor]

27. The OP has a point. I have thought about this too, However, he doesn't seem to have any obvious

neurological problems. Not like McCain, who is obviously unfit to run for president. And Bill is just running for spouse.

[davsand]

35. I have No idea if it applies to Bill Clinton but I have seen this phenom.

My Dad had multiple Open Heart surgeries over a period of years and there was a noticeable difference after each surgery. We noticed it right after his first open heart and asked his Doc about it and were told it is a fairly common thing to see changes in temperament, cognitive function, and behaviors after an open heart surgery.

In part, I do think it is has a physical component, but I also think that coming face to face with that level of illness (no matter the condition) will impact on how you view life afterward. Heart Disease is really creepy stuff and it messes with you and everyone around you on an emotional level.

I know a heart transplant patient whose family encountered the same thing with him. This is not something to dismiss if you know a cardiac patient, and Bill did undergo open heart. I hate for anybody to have to face this stuff, but the surgery probably did need to be done--the risks were outweighed by the benefits, I guess.

As for Bill, I dunno. I assume he is entitled to be human and suffer with frailties of the flesh just like the rest of us. It would not shock me to hear that open heart surgery maybe left him with some changes in his life...


:shrug:


Laura

[suston96]

36. All these personality experts here with judgments from miniscule sound bites by Bill Clinton....

I was on that machine just a little over a year ago and my personality has not changed. I am told that I am the same asshole I was before the surgery.

Maybe improved, because now my heart pumps blood faster and further than it ever did before. So my brain is functioning better than it ever did. Can't you tell? Read my posts.

[EFerrari]

40. LOL!

Good for you!

:applause:

[BlueStater]

37. Now THIS is Rovian tactics

You're suggesting the man has brain damage because of his heart surgery? Every day I'm finding more similarities between this place and FreakRepublic.

[Independent-Voter]

38. Screw 'em. Bill's acting like an asshole, period. This Frist-like excuse isn't changing that fact.

[Divine Discontent]

41. exactly

I'm very distrustful of them after this charade, because HILLARY didn't have heart surgery and she's behaving as bad or worse than he is!



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