NOW do you understand why Obama would not, could not denounce this man?

[EffieBlack]

[tekisui]

1. Absolutely.

The introduction America got to him was a hit job. As we get to know him more, we realize he is a fine man, with a fine message.

RWer's and Hillary Defenders don't have the attention span to understand context, but he is a Patriot.

[Tesha]

96. "A hit job": Wot a shock, ehh? Typical MSM spin-it-as-they-want-it stuff. (NT)

[burythehatchet]

2. understood it all along; but I'm glad to get to know the man better.

[BlooInBloo]

23. 2nded.

[Egnever]

70. I will join in on that!

Never bothered me to begin with.

[yourguide]

3. Indeed!

[southern_belle]

4. Absolutely!

[EffieBlack]

17. My grandmother taught me "When you do right, you'll do fine."

The easiest, safest and most politically expedient thing Obama could have done six weeks ago would have been to denounce Rev. Wright. He refused to do it and, as a result, risked his entire campaign. That took great political courage.

Now the world is beginning to see what Obama sees in this man.

He did the right thing when the right thing was hard to do and when it was far from likely that doing the right thing would have caused him anything but trouble. But now it's possible that Obama's act of political courage will actually come back to his benefit.

He did the right thing then. And he's going to do fine, now.

[LakeSamish706]

I will tell you that is one of the true things that I admire about Barack....

He stood his ground and did not throw Rev. Wright under the bus like so many others would have..... Barack has so much character as does the great Rev.

[boston bean]

5. no, actually I can't see why he continues to associate with him. nt

[ProSense]

7. You see what you want to see. Why is Hillary trying to destroy this man? n/t

[ecdab]

33. What's a little collateral damage to a women willing to obliterate an

entire civilization. Seriously - in order to score political points she has gone out of here way to screw a man of God that had previously aided her. What does his life mean to her - less than nothing.

[SeattleGirl]

11. Then you must be blind.

Either that, or someone scared of a black person who doesn't stay in "his place."

[Tatiana]

12. You obviously don't believe in some of the same things most of us do. n/t

[movonne]

14. I am really beginning to feel sorry for you hillary supporters...talk

about being just plain nasty and desperate..

[WillParkinson]

67. And reading some of these posts...

The supporters of Mr. Obama are so much more mature.

Neither candidate should be judged by their supporters. If that's the case they seem to both be lacking.

[Tesha]

99. OF COURSE they should be judged by their supporters.

Let's take an example that's a little more extreme than
what we currently have:

Let's hypthesize a U.S. candidate like, say France's Jean
Le Penn. Our hypothetical candidate attracts NeoNazis from
Skiokie Illinois, and KKK types from all around the South.
In fact, they've burned a few crosses to help stir up
publicity about this fellow and have occasionally beaten-
up counter-protesters who've turned out to make sure people
know some of the truth about this fellow.

If a candidate attracted that sort of support, don't you
think we could validly conclude a few things about the
candidate from the sort of supporters that he attracted?

Admittedly. the situation with Clinton supporters (or
Obama suporters) isn't so extreme, but there are still
things one can validly learn about a candidate from the
way the candidate's supporters comport themselves.

Tesha

[Raine]

37. WHY? You don't give a reason...

what do you think is so wrong that he should disassociate himself from?

[tabatha]

77. You have a very immature unsophisticated view of the world.

You don't understand tolerance, wisdom, doing unto others as you would have done to you.

The world is an enormously diverse place - where many people make small mistakes, big mistakes, non-mistakes.

However, a person is the sum of all of their traits.

I have found in life that some people are 90% good, some 80% good, some 70% good, etc. etc.

For those whose % of good is not perfect, there is a place in society for them.

I would never throw imperfect or even close-to-perfect humans under the bus.

If you read the teachings of Jesus you will understand that (and I am an agnostic).

Forgiveness, redemption is the key.

You probably don't understand what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was all about.

The only person I feel sorry for, is you.

[Forkboy]

93. Sums MassDemm up very nicely.

[Tesha]

97. The sad part is that this is absolutely the answer I would have expected from you.

(Or Methuen Progressive, whoever got the hit in first.)

Tesha

[Tesha]

113. Ahh, here's Methuen Progressive's post on the topic...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5715832

[Tesha]

114. And here's your full thread on the topic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5714657

Tesha

[Tatiana]

6. I understood that way before Wright finally got the green light to rebut the outlandish

portayal of himself.

[LakeSamish706]

8. Yep I certainly know that after watching him... He has such a personality...

I truly believe that part of Obama's personality comes from the "Great" Rev. Doctor Wright.... What a great inspirator the man is... Brought tears to my eyes watching and listening to him...... If only the world had more of him... Hey, lets Clone him.

[AquarianRealm62]

9. Growing up in black churches all my life..I indeed understood from the jump..

[MadMaddie]

28. Amen!!

Welcome to DU!!!

[AquarianRealm62]

40. Amen. Indeed. Thanks for the welcome!

[sandnsea]

10. We need more truth-tellers

I didn't watch, but I was with him when he had the guts to blow that "God Bless America" nonsense out of the water.

[Skittles]

13. I always understood why he wouldn't

because I am not an idiot :)

[John Q. Citizen]

15. I never thought he should.

[jbane]

16. Obama's staff should send him on a long vacation.

Moderate white middle class voters that would be considering supporting Obama got up and
left the room when they found about the Rev. He is killing Obama.

[high density]

20. That's total BS

It hurt him a couple points nationally and then he rebounded after that. Nobody cares, even though the media wants to be offended on our behalf.

[Tesha]

100. Actually, *I* care.

And what I just heard Rev. Wright say was stuff that
I think needed being said. I care about what he said,
he said it well, and I'm glad he's speaking out and not
shutting-up just because the latest media spin says
that he should.

Tesha

[HysteryDiagnosis]

24. You give us too little credit for hearing the truth and knowing what

to do with it.

[EffieBlack]

25. Our party doesn't need "moderate white middle class voters" who would get up and leave the room

for such a reason.

Good riddance to them. There are plenty of others to take their place.

[democracy1st]

92. Trust me all kinds play a role

Left/Right of center and moderates, control the mind control the message thats whats going on in America

[SeattleGirl]

26. It that's the case, then I'm moving to another country.

However, I don't think that it is.

And I think that people are a bit more open-minded than you are giving them credit for.

[BlooInBloo]

27. Those that left the room weren't gonna vote for Obama anyway...

... they were just looking for a reason - any reason to cover their asses.

[movonne]

29. I start to answer you in a nasty way...but then why should I ...You are

just getting horrible...why don't you try and say something nice about your own candidate...maybe it is because you can't...

[movonne]

30. I start to answer you in a nasty way...but then why should I ...You are

just getting horrible...why don't you try and say something nice about your own candidate...maybe it is because you can't...

[jbane]

41. Obama is my candidate....

But I think it's over now. If you want to win the presidency you have to have the moderate middle class white vote,
there are just too many of them. I'm not trying to be an A-hole, just giving an observation.

[crankychatter]

88. I'm for Obama BUT BUT BUT

yeah sure u are

[JerseygirlCT]

34. Nope. I don't buy this. nt

[Adelante]

39. You must have a lot of room in your head

From that tiny little mind.

[jbane]

45. Don't hate....

It's just an observation, I want Obama to be my next president but I don't think it will happen.
I do have a tiny mind but it's because I have a big head!!

[MadMaddie]

50. Did you even listen to the speech? He pointed out that

there are different ways that people praise Jesus but that difference is not a deficiency.


What are you as a Moderate Democrat afraid of? The African American church...because it is different than yours?

this man served in the Marines, he didn't get 5 deferments, he didn't go absent without leave...

Uh, oh I guess true colors are showing...

Oh well I guess life is about learning and growing...some of us will accept that others will pine away in their safe zone.

[Voltaire]

110. Moderate middle class white voters

Need to grow up. After achieving that, they can buy a clue. Folks who aren't in a middle class white situation are tired of having to live their lives in such a way that middle class white voters aren't offended. Fuck em.

Spoken by a middle class black person who doesn't really care what white america thinks.

[1776Forever]

18. I cried and clapped and praised the Lord many times during his speech - Amazing Man!

I wish I lived in Chicago so I could see him more often. I know he is retiring but he will I am sure be back for special sermons and talks.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright

:yourock:

[grantcart]

19. This speech enhances both of the men as people of substance

and diminishes all the sound bite critics.


It will put the evangelicals in a very ackward spot because they suffer from much of the derision that Wright has suffered.


I predict a backlash among evangelicals to support Wright if not his politics.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

21. Holy crap, what a brilliant man. I am awestruck by his service

to the country, academic achievements and accomplishments. Shame on those who put up the clips for whatever reasons... shame on them. Now they need to play this everyday for a couple of weeks and or put it up in its entirety on their home page.

[ecdab]

22. There will always be the willfully ignorant. Most folks that play the

guilt by association game do so knowing at some level how silly they are being. I would expect that most people that don't like the "scary black preacher man" don't want to know more about him than a 30 second bite, because it might temper their dislike of Obama - and they wouldn't want to allow that to happen - thus they choose to remain ignorant.

[Skip Intro]

31. He said in the last debate that he disowned him.

But, I guess it's hard to ride a fence if you don't have a leg on both sides.

[SeattleGirl]

35. He did NOT say that.

He said he denounced some of the Reverend's words, but he did NOT denounce the man.

[Skip Intro]

47. He DID say it. It was in the last debate. He said the rev was "someone he has disowned."

He said it, then asked about it, stumbled and said he disowned his comments. Had he not been asked about it, his statement would have stood that he had disowned the reverend.

Yes, he said it.

[SeattleGirl]

55. Oh, blah blah blah.

You think if you say something enough, that makes it true.

[Skip Intro]

57. Would you like the quotes and a link to the debate transcript. Here, take a look:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5710463&mesg_id=5710770

[GarbagemanLB]

60. and in his original comment, it was clear he was referring to the comments.

[Skip Intro]

61. "comments not made by me, but somebody who is associated with me that I have disowned"

yeah, pretty clear...

[JerseygirlCT]

66. He's talking about the comments... maybe not a strictly

grammatical construction, but the last phrase is meant to modify "comments" not "somebody".

[SeattleGirl]

I think we can try to explain this until we're blue in the face, but if

the person to whom we are trying to explain it isn't willing to listen, there's not much we can do.

[JerseygirlCT]

78. Sigh. True enough. nt

[northzax]

98. for someone so good with language

that would be a very sloppy construction, most unlike him. That line was deliberatly crafted that way, I would think to allow people to hear their own interpretation, as you have.

And didn't he say that he would have left the church had wright not retired, or some such thing? and, to me, wright isn't acting like someone whose protege, the probable next president of the united states endorsed wholeheartedly. He's out, a month later, trying to patch up his reputation.

[JerseygirlCT]

102. There's a big difference between written speech, or even

remarks given orally that have been written beforehand, and extemporaneous speech.

He IS good on his feet, and speaking extemporaneously, but he's not perfect - no one is. One of the things I like about him, in fact, is the way he corrects himself as he's speaking. He's not afraid to do that.

And I think the clarification he made a sentence or so later was just that. "Oh, I see how that last statement could be misinterpreted; let me make it more clear".

But obviously we just see the man differently.

[EffieBlack]

72. "that" applies to "comments, not somebody (that would be "who")

And he made clear seconds later just what he meant. Do you really believe that, despite the fact that for weeks leading up to this sentence and in the immediate seconds after he spoke this sentence he made clear that he had not and would not disown Wright, that this one sentence fragment that the transcriptionist incorrectly punctuated, is proof that Obama did indeed "disown" Rev. Wright?

You can't posibly be that obtuse or disingenuous.

[SeattleGirl]

74. Unfortunately, Effie, I think some people can be.

The same people who scream bloody murder if someone tries to do the same with their candidate.

In neither case is it acceptable to those of us who prefer reality, but they don't want to accept that.

[TahitiNut]

76. The antecedent for "that" is "comments" NOT "somebody." Read much?

Over and over and over again, this has been made CLEAR. The intellectual dishonsty of your posture is despicable.

:puke:

[Catherina]

115. Your assertion is willfully dishonest

OBAMA: And, you know, the notion that somehow that the American people are going to be distracted once again by comments not made by me but somebody who is associated with me that I have disowned, I think doesn't give the American people enough credit.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've disowned him?

OBAMA: The comments, comments that I've disowned

[JerseygirlCT]

36. He did not.

He's said many times that he doesn't always agree with Rev. Wright. He has NOT disowned the man.

You want to throw down quotes to support that?

[Skip Intro]

54. Here are your quotes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5710463&mesg_id=5710770

[scheming daemons]

104. Immediately followed with "I was referring to the comments"

You're a disingenuous liar.

[AquarianRealm62]

43. Where's your link for that ...he never said such a thing.

[Skip Intro]

53. Link here. Damn, did you watch the debate?

right here:

----------------------------------------------------------
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator, two questions. Number one, do you think Reverend Wright loves America as much as you do? And, number two, if you get the nomination, what will you do when those sermons are played on television again and again and again?

OBAMA: You know, George, look, if it's not this, then it would be something else. I promise you, if Senator Clinton got the nomination, there will be a whole bunch of video clips about other things.

In a general election, we know that there are going to be all kinds of attacks launched and leveled. There have been quite a few leveled in this primary campaign.

And I have confidence in the American people that when you talk to the American people honestly and directly about what I believe in, what my plans are on health care, on energy, when they see my track record of the work that I've done on behalf of people who really need help, I have absolute confidence that they can rally behind my campaign.

And, you know, the notion that somehow that the American people are going to be distracted once again by comments not made by me, but somebody who is associated with me that I have disowned, I think doesn't give the American people enough credit.
----------------------------------------------------------


Then he gets asked for verification of what he's just said:

----------------------------------------------------------
STEPHANOPOULOS: You've disowned him?

OBAMA: The comments, comments that I've disowned. Then that is not something I...

----------------------------------------------------------

Had he not been asked for verification of what he had just said, the statement would have stood. He didn't offer to correct it. And yes, he did say it.

link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/DemocraticDebate/Story?id=4670271&page=2

[JerseygirlCT]

62. Did you miss this part that clarifies

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've disowned him?

OBAMA: The comments, comments that I've disowned.

[AquarianRealm62]

64. Of course, It was convenient to do so.

[SeattleGirl]

71. Self delete

[Skip Intro]

82. That is what I love about some of you Obama supporters. The poster accused me of leaving something

out, that actually was IN the post that he replied to, and without checking, without reading the original post, you take his word and run with it, insulting me in the process.

Think for yourself, man.

[JerseygirlCT]

103. No, I suggested you intentionally or unintentionally ignored the

part that didn't support your thesis. I was surprised, as it was right there, in the quote you provided. So why ignore it?

[Skip Intro]

79. That part is in my post. He did say he'd disowned him, and only clarified when asked.

Why ask him to clarify if it was clear what he was saying?

[JerseygirlCT]

80. Because his construction could be misconstrued.

Read the section of comments above this.

He was not referring to "somebody" as being disowned, but the comments by somebody. World of difference.

[graycem]

89. Hmm..

Maybe he thought people could understand plain English. Please stop grasping at new ways to twist anything the man says. He made it clear in a 30 minute speech broadcast to the nation, millions of people have viewed it, that he disowned the comments, not the man. It seems your bias leaves you searching for any fumble in his words that can give you that "AHA!" moment. It's not working.

[scheming daemons]

105. Because the sentence structure of the previous statement could be miscontrued....

...so he cleared it up.


Meaning that, he did NOT disown his pastor... just his comments.



You're a disingenuous liar.

[AquarianRealm62]

63. Nice try, he was referring to the comments. Check the clarification.

[Forkboy]

94. You can't truly be as dense as you're acting.

Please tell me you actually have a brain that you can turn on at some point, because so far you're either playing dumb, or you ARE dumb.

[scheming daemons]

106. Yes he can... he's a typical Hillary supporter.... like this guy:

It makes things easier to understand when you realize that most of Hillary supporters here think like Archie Bunker.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

32. Oh yes. nt

[ginchinchili]

38. How you feel about Rev. Wright is not the issue.

There are a lot of votes that Obama needs that he won't get in part because Obama so closely identifies with a man who publicly denounces the United States. People don't want a president who might possibly be thinking, god damn America, because the people are America. You don't have to agree with those people, but that's what's real.

[ecdab]

48. There are those that fell that because fake patriotism is real we should bend over

for it, and there are those that want to fight to change such things. That's one of the dividing lines between Hillary and Obama. Hillary wants us to bend over for fake patriotism - Obama wants us to came together a fight to change such damaging perceptions so that we can implement some meaning policy changes.

[ginchinchili]

69. I hardly think that Hillary "wants us to bend over for fake patriotism."

Forgive me for pointing this out, but suggesting that your candidate's idea of patriotism is the only real way of being patriotic smacks of the Bush ideology: you're either with us or against us. Yes, there are a lot of hypocritical rightwingers running around with a plastic sense of what patriotism is, but I also see it take other forms on the left. I am just repulsed by the attitude that if you don't think like me you're bad or stupid or wrong, no matter if it's coming from the right or the left. And just how is Obama going to "change such damaging perceptions?" That's another thing Bush and his supporters do to excess, they use terms and phrases in vague, feel-good ways that lack specific meaning. I don't buy into that either.

[ecdab]

87. Sure she does - she asking us to elect her to appease "flag pin"

patriots and folks that think a former marine like Wright isn't entitles to speak his mind about this nation. If that isn't asking us to bend over for fake patriotism, what is?

Fighting against it is easy. First you have to recognize it and then you have to choose to not appease it. I have no doubt that Hillary can recognize it - but she would rather trying and score political points by appeasing it than actually speaking against it. A unified Democratic party can achieve quite a bit in this election cycle - but it has to choose to do so. Hillary is making the wrong choice (yet again), and doing it for reasons of political expedience (very similar to the IWR).

I would also point out that I never spoke about Obama's idea of Patriotism - I simply suggested that people that think flag pins and never being critical of the US are measures of patriotism have grabbed hold of a false concept of what it is. Twisting Patriotism into debates about flag pins and the like is used to stall political and social progress in this nation constantly. Wouldn't it be nice if the Democratic candidate actually did something other than try and turn such things into political issues themselves?

[babylonsister]

42. Hell, yeah! Obama and Wright speak truth to power!

THAT is what I want to hear! Such a great speech tonight, Effie! And on Moyers. I love this man and would be proud, nea, would LOVE to go hear a sermon or many more from this man who is so wise!

[LakeSamish706]

49. After all the tear down by the MSM and to actually get to see the man....

I just love this guy, he has such a personallity.... I am agnostic, but an agnostic that would love to listen to Rev. Wrights sermons....

[babylonsister]

56. For me, it has nothing to do with God or no God, but everything to do

with the history lesson Wright spoke of tonight. The 'music lesson' he gave everyone should resonate all by itself. He was really special.

I'm not religious at all, but my beliefs didn't dampen the impact of this speech.

[AquarianRealm62]

44. Look at Roland in his angelic white with gold trim... :-)

[Tatiana]

52. He's looking ready to get his Jesus on, LOL. n/t

[AquarianRealm62]

58. Ha! Yep..Wade in the Water...Wade in the Water! If anybody ask you, where I'm going, where I'm

goinnng soooon..well, tell them, I'm going up a yonder!

[Tribetime]

46. I almost got chills reading your post and watching Wright

I saw this coming a couple weeks ago on youtube. Alot of clips on him in a positive light. I'm glad the truth is coming out.

[TheDoorbellRang]

51. I was so happy to see Rev Wright on Bill Moyers the other night

and thought it was too bad it was on PBS and wouldn't be seen by many. Now tonight he did that wonderful speech and it played in full on CNN and on Faux News, of all places. I would imagine there are many in America tonight scratching their heads after seeing him speak and saying to each other, "But I really LIKED him. He wasn't scary at all."

What a man! Intelligent, learned, and inspiring -- just like Obama.

[grantcart]

59. he also got a million dollar plug in for his book lol

[LakeSamish706]

65. Anybody have any questions as to why Barack thinks so highly of this man? Not me for sure. n/t

[Upton]

68. I understand completely

this man is to be admired, not denounced.

[otohara]

73. what man, what speech

where, link - more info

[SeattleGirl]

75. Rev. Wright. They are replaying the speech he gave at the NAACP

tonight on CNN.

[backscatter712]

81. Yeah.

I took the trouble to listen to more than the FAUX Noise tape loop before, but now I'm getting even more of a taste of the real Rev. Wright.

Sharp, funny, pulls no punches, and a powerful speaker!

[leftofcool]

83. Uh no. Sorry

But you guys can have him. Just please keep him in the limelight.

[babylonsister]

84. I claim him. If you don't 'get it', I feel sorry for you. nt

[EFerrari]

85. LOL

:)

[Scurrilous]

86. K & R

:thumbsup:

[graycem]

90. I agree...

and it is absolutely mind blowing how anyone in the democratic party cannot value the truth he speaks. His ENTIRE sermon that is "in question" rails against the GOVERNMENT. Not citizens. He condemns the governments of ALL countries who go around killing innocent civilians with the "blessing" of their chosen God, be it God, Jesus, Allah, whichever, as acts of revenge. You know, that whole war in Iraq?? Isn't this the ENTIRE point of being a democrat? Standing up for innocents and civil rights, being against the war?? Why is this being lost on people??

[Forkboy]

95. Note the same old responsible irresponsibles in this thread.

Not even up to the level of one-note wonders. Just people wallowing in, and proud of, their own ignorance. If they want people to be as stupid as they are they're in the wrong party.

[OzarkDem]

101. I wish Obama would start talking issues

I could care less about Wright, he's Obama's cross to bear. He doesn't merit any attention.

[Rex_Goodheart]

108. Couldn't denounce a racist? Er, no, I don't understand.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

109. Can I get an Amen!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

111. Confused Squirrel Award

[rucky]

112. I saw the speech. I loved the speech. Then I saw the commentary...

and was wondering if we were watching the same speech.

It's sickening that a man can speak about something as simple as treating people better, then face what he's facing in the media.