Was Wright right about Farrakhan?

[MonkeyFunk]

He claims Farrakhan said *Zionism* was a gutter religion, not Judaism. I can't find the original quote, but I can find countless references to Farrakhan saying it about Judaism, not about Zionism.

Does anybody have the original quote?

[MonkeyFunk]

1. kick

does anybody know?

[ej510]

2. Yes it is true!

I listen to Farrakhan do I agree with everything he says no. But Farrakhan has helped alot of young bruthas and sistas.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. Do you have any reference

to him saying the reference was to Zionism, not Judaism? It seems odd to me, as Zionism isn't a religion at all.

Wiki has a reference to Farrakhan claiming he called it not a "gutter religion" but a "dirty religion" and that "dirty" had a specific theological meaning.

[JoFerret]

17. It's the old autobahn defence

(Not that Farrakhan is Hitler.)

It's not enough for me. Can't speak for you.

[rucky]

3. I think it's in his Wiki.

[boston bean]

4. That clip will be the one shown from here to eternity. I almost fell off my chair. nt

[IndianaJones]

5. what exacty is Zionism? is it a religion? nt.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. That's why I ask.

The explanation is nonsensical.

[2rth2pwr]

26. He seemed a bit out of his element being questioned by someone a little tougher than Moyers.

[ellacott]

8. It is true

I know someone who was there when he gave that speech. He was the first to tell me he never said that. I have seen the original speech but I don't know any links.

If I cand find it I'll post it.

[mattclearing]

9. It's funny, the first ten things that come up if you google Farrakhan gutter religion

are things like, "Farrakhan described Judaism as 'a gutter religion.'" Not one of them has the full quote.

[anigbrowl]

22. Funny, I had no difficulty finding two sources on the first page of results

I liked to one of them below. Here's another.
http://www.blacksandjews.com/Farr_&_Jws.html

[mattclearing]

24. I was looking for the specific quote (gutter), which if that's the quote, doesn't exist.

Hence why I didn't find it. I suppose one could take his words to be against Israel the government and Zionism, but he doesn't seem to make an effort to distinguish his criticism from Judaism and the entire Israeli nation as a whole. That kind of doublespeak can be meant to reserve the right to backtrack while giving people who hate everything they need to feel agreed with.

He may have meant that people who do bad things dirty their religion, but that's not what he said. People are right to give him a hard time about it.

[mattclearing]

10. The wiki doesn't have it either.

Claim that he called Judaism a gutter religion
He has also been accused of calling Judaism a "gutter religion," although Farrakhan and his supporters deny this. An article in the NOI's periodical, Final Call, has responded by claiming that Farrakhan instead used the expression "dirty religion," and that "...in Minister Farrakhan’s vocabulary the phrase 'dirty religion' has a particular meaning... 'dirty religion' is the distorted faith which emerges from its manipulation by hypocrites or sinners."<26>
Farrakhan, however, has denied that he used the word dirty either. In a June 18, 1997 letter to a former Wall Street Journal editor, Jude Wanniski, he stated:
Countless times over the years I have explained that I never referred to Judaism as a gutter religion, but, clearly referred to the machinations of those who hide behind the shield of Judaism while using unjust political means to achieve their objectives. This was distilled in the New York tabloids and other media saying, "Farrakhan calls Judaism a gutter religion." As a Muslim, I revere Abraham, Moses, and all the Prophets who Allah (God) sent to the children of Israel. I believe in the scriptures brought by these Prophets and the Laws of Allah (God) as expressed in the Torah. I would never refer to the Revealed Word of Allah (God) -- the basis of Jewish Faith -- as "dirty" or "gutter." You know, Jude, as well as I, that the Revealed Word of Allah (God) comes as a Message from Allah (God) to purify us from our evil that has divided us and caused us to fall into the gutter. Over the centuries, the evils of Christians, Jews and Muslims have dirtied their respective religions. True Faith in the laws and Teaching of Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad is not dirty, but, practices in the name of these religions can be unclean and can cause people to look upon the misrepresented religion as being unclean.<27>
The transcript from the (then aired) Phil Donohue support Min. Farrakhan's response to this accusation of anti-Semitism.

[Jamastiene]

11. There is a lot of information about Farrakhan's history of antisemitism here.

It is a long but interesting read. Farrakhan also called for black community to separate from mainstream back in 2007.

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/farrakhan_own_words.asp

http://www.adl.org/main_Nation_of_Islam/farrakhan_urges_separation.htm

Here is Farrakhan's suggested reading list:
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/NatIsl_81/4986_81.htm

It's all a bunch of antisemitic tripe.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. Oh, I know

I'm just wondering why Wright apparently told a blatant lie.

I can't find a quote showing that Farrakhan said "zionism", nor can I find an explanation from Farrakhan that claims he said "Zionism" and not "judaism".

[anonymous171]

13. "He [Wright] does not speak for this campaign."

This doesn't belong in GD-P

[MonkeyFunk]

14. Alert on it if you think so

Can you address the question, though?

[sandnsea]

15. Here's the context

http://books.google.com/books?id=Im__1Z2YLvQC&pg=PA35&dq=farrakhan+%22gutter+religion%22&sig=192O6LzxZBbaiXwZlSBNUAnsWBA

He was referring to Israeli's using God's name to shield their "dirty religion". That does say to me he meant Zionism, not Judaism because he was speaking about Israeli's directly.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. but Zionism

isn't a religion.

I don't understand the defense.

[sandnsea]

18. The religion of Jewish settlement

of Israel. I think he is referring to the more militant Jews in Israel, the ones who refuse any kind of negotiation. There are Jews who do not support everything Israel does. I think he was referring to those who use God to defend everything they do in Israel.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. OK

if that's what you believe. I find that explanation utterly implausible.

[jasmine621]

20. yes. nt

[anigbrowl]

21. If you can't find the original quote, it must be you can't use google

It took me about 10 seconds to get results and a few minutes to read through the links I clicked to check they were authentic. All I did was search on 'Farrakhan gutter religion' and it came up right on the first page. So when you say you can't find it, I simply do not believe you are telling the truth.

http://www.noi.org/statements/rift/Wanniski12-22-1997.htm
Regarding Mayor Koch’s challenge of my statement of March 11, 1984, about Judaism being a "dirty" religion or "gutter" religion. I have since then, at least a hundred times, explained that I made the "dirty religion" comment in a political context, after I was charged by some Jewish political and religious leaders with being the new "Black Hitler," in anger, I responded: "Here come the Jews calling me Hitler. The only way you can compare me to Hitler is that Hitler rose his people up from the ashes of defeat in World War I and I am trying to raise my people up from the ashes of slavery."

Then I said, "Do not compare me with your wicked killers", by which I meant murderers in the white race. I have never murdered anyone, advocated murder, or urged any form of physical violence. All human life is sacred to me. I believe all human beings can be redeemed except those who have violated the law of Allah (God) in such a way that it demands the forfeiture of their lives.

Regarding the state of Israel, I said in 1984, "Israel has not had any peace in 40 years and she will never have any peace for there can be no peace structured on lying, murder, and injustice, using the name of Allah (God) as a shield for your dirty religion."

Countless times over the years I have explained that I never referred to Judaism as a dirty religion, but, clearly referred to the machinations of those who hide behind the shield of Judaism while using unjust political means to achieve their objectives. This was distilled in the New York tabloids and other media saying, "Farrakhan calls Judaism a gutter religion."

As a Muslim, I revere Abraham, Moses, and all the Prophets who Allah (God) sent to the children of Israel. I believe in the scriptures brought by these Prophets and the Laws of Allah (God) as expressed in the Torah. I would never refer to the Revealed Word of Allah (God) -- the basis of Jewish Faith -- as "dirty" or "gutter." You know, Jude, as well as I, that the Revealed Word of Allah (God) comes as a Message from Allah (God) to purify us from our evil that has divided us and caused us to fall into the gutter.

Over the centuries, the evils of Christians, Jews and Muslims have dirtied their respective religions. True Faith in the laws and Teaching of Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad is not dirty, but, practices in the name of these religions can be unclean and can cause people to look upon the misrepresented religion as being unclean.

[ProSense]

23. Ask Ed Rendell, he had nothing but praise for Farrakhan. n/t

[hokies4ever]

27. Another reason why I don't like the Clinton campaign

They (or at least Rendell) knew that he attended that ceremony with Farrakhan, yet Hillary still decided to drop Farrakhan at the ABC debate to attack Obama. Her campaign has no shame. Reminds me of a funny youtube commercial about Hillary's ambitions (punch a baby in the face):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h7bzdj9RlG4

[cali]

25. ugh.

pitiful. Farrakhan is an out and out bigot. And anyone denying it is blind.