DailyKos and MoveOn.org showing signs of Obuyer's remorse

[lwcon]

Poll question: DailyKos and MoveOn.org showing signs of Obuyer's remorse

Upon seeing Obama throw virtually every Democrat under the bus on Fox News yesterday, Obama stalwarts Kos of DailyKos and Adam Green of MoveOn.org are shocked, shocked to find their candidate not just fallible, but weak.

The big question: why are they going public with their concerns?

[LSK]

1. he threw Democrats under the bus????

huh??????

[LSparkle]

5. I'm just as perplexed ... that's not the same interview I saw ...

He only admitted that perhaps Rethugs have some interesting ideas on regulation;
that's not "throwing all Democrats under the bus."

What's throwing Democrats under the bus is Terry McAuliffe calling Fixed Noize
"fair and balanced" and praising them to such an extent that they turn his
appearance into an on-air promo!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

14. The OP referred to links on those websites. It's all subjective.

I already posted my worries after reading the transcript. It was not "standing up" to FAUX, IMHO.

[PoliticalAmazon]

27. THey're just doing the Clinton/Bush/Rove tactic again: blaming BO for what HRC actually does. n/t

[roguevalley]

59. she doesn't have to go on. they are doing her work for her.

[lwcon]

73. Isn't there a Godwin's law on this contentless attack yet?

You guys need some new material, ideally something honest, not that there's anything wrong with truthiness.

Obama's orchestrated campaign to paint the Clintons as racists is unequivocally the most Rovian thing done in this primary season, but it feels better to objectify and hate the Clintons, so it's all you little drones do.

When even Kos and MoveOn are starting to smell the coffee, you might start wondering who are the real "dead-enders" are here.

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[PoliticalAmazon]

89. "Contentless"? The Clintons are WORSE than racists...

...They pander to racists and bigots, giving credibilit and validity to bigot attitudes that we have worked so hard to leave behind.

And nobody "painted" them. They did it themselves.

Indeed they are worse than Rove/Bush, who never overtly and repeatedly pandered to bigots.

[lwcon]

71. It would take all night to highlight every admission Kos made in his post

Try this one on for size: "What this does demonstrate, and quite clearly so, is that Obama is quite willing to score cheap political points at the expense of his base."

Kos had one of the great brands on the Internet, and he went all-in on supporting Obama, and even he is seeing how empty Obama's promises are. Be careful what you wish for, as they say.
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[tridim]

2. Fear, check.

Uncertainty, check.
Doubt, check.

[americanstranger]

3. You forgot Option 6:

This is a stupid and meaningless poll.

- as

[Mooney]

4. I HEART push polls.

[TheDebbieDee]

6. Distancing themselves just in case.............

But it is too late - Moveon.org will NEVER, ever get another dime from me.

[murielm99]

13. Nor I.

I have been a member ever since that long-ago day when I received an email from some unknown guy who asked me to support censure for Bill Clinton and to move on.

How long ago? More than ten years, I think. Anyway, I quit when they endorsed Obama. It wasn't about Obama. I did not think they should have been endorsing anyone.

In the previous election, they had wanted to endorse Dean. They did not meet their self-imposed threshold to endorse anyone. I would have quit if they had endorsed Dean, even though I was thinking about supporting him for the general. MoveOn should be a watchdog, not an arm of our party.

[lwcon]

17. Bingo! n/t

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[Hoof Hearted]

77. Nor I.

[99th_Monkey]

7. Nevermind that the whole premise of this "poll" is a pure fabrication. ZZZZZ...

[Kittycat]

8. Awww - look at you with your 'concern'. I supposed you're just as 'concerned' about HRC's

appearance on Faux. Because that is all this is about.

[DearAbby]

9. Jesus, that Bus...is gonna have their own zip code!

It's fast becoming the most populated imaginary city in the country...BTW I live in the elite section of "under the Bus" :::smug smile::

[lwcon]

10. How's the Chablis? n/t

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[DearAbby]

12. Well, dauhling...you must come

the Patio section in the shade of the front tire and enjoy some with me...oh and they also serve a scrumptious Latte!

[lwcon]

15. But I do so miss our limo!

Please pass me a Communist flag. I do believe I'm going to have a cry!


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[CakeGrrl]

11. The OP misses the point

They're disappointed that Obama even gave Fox News the time of day as if they're a legitimate news organization, but they aren't even close to throwing him over in favor of Clinton, who they pointed out is much worse since one of her own campaign members is featured in Fox ads as an endorser.

[goclark]

16. Bingo!

[NJmaverick]

18. LOL! Nice spin, but Obama hit a home run in his FOX apperance

Kos and MoveOn are already in his camp. As the PA primary shows, he needs to reach out for the more conservative Dems as well.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. Yeah, they sound pretty happy with him. Not.

Both organizations have devoted much energy and resources to debunking and illuminating FAUX's blatant propaganda methods. Sen. Obama went along instead of providing an actual progressive voice. He praised Republicans. Several times.

[depakid]

30. You must have watched a different interview than I did

What I saw was milquetoast.

His failure to draw a moral equivalency between Tom (death penalty for abortion doctors) Coburn and Rev. Wright's various statements when asked would have just floored me if I hadn't expected that sort of response.

[NJmaverick]

45. You must have watched something else

I saw a great candidate who showed his special ability to unite, rather than divide. What a refreshing change of pass, from the divisive fighter types like hillary and bush.

[depakid]

50. What you saw was a reprise of the Dukakis and to a lesser extent the Kerru style campaigns

Remind me again how those "strategies" worked out?

[NJmaverick]

54. Those two gentlemen lack Obama's charisma

Which is a MAJOR difference

[depakid]

61. And Obama has several major weaknesses that both of them didn't have

a thin resume being perhaps the most damaging.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. Yep "above the fray", "we can work together" "Democrats are too partisan"

"Republicans have great ideas" redux.

[lwcon]

82. The way Obama and his supporters...

... spread the good feeling of unity is quite impressive, indeed.

On DU, you all have set quite a standard, rolling out the welcome mat to Hillary supporters with amazing graciousness and collegial debate. I for one didn't know I was an "asshole," a "moron," a "racist," "gay," or a "harpy" -- nor was I aware of the big checks Rupert Murdoch, Karl Rove, and Hillary herself were depositing into my account -- until you folks were kind enough to lend your thoughtful assistance to my journey for self-awareness.

On his site, Kos epitomized this feel-good vibe (there I go, taking like one of those awful Baby Boomers), when he said his site didn't need to be "fair" to Hillary, and when he called her supporters a "shrinking band of paranoid holdouts."

Finally, given how admirable the Republicans have proven themselves to be, it would be just dreadful to have a Democratic president who is a "fighter." Perish the thought!

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[Jamastiene]

95. Great post.

:thumbsup:

[beachmom]

19. Unlike the many hacks who support Hillary, Obama has a great many honest supporters

who are going to speak up if they disagree with him.

Dumb poll. None fit me.

[bigbrother05]

20. If you read the whole story on KOS, it states they were not thrown

under the bus, please read before posting.
President Obama will not eliminate one News station, for Political Points, you don't have to watch.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

23. It also lists several reasons why it made him look bad to the Democratic base:

It made Obama look weak, and he was. Lucky for him, the Clinton campaign has been groveling at Fox's feet for so long, and so shamelessly, that Terry McAuliffe is now featured in one of Fox's self promotional ads. What might've been a point of differentiation between Obama and Clinton is erased -- they are both groveling cowards in the face of the VRWC.


It gave Fox a propaganda victory, allowing it to crow that:
very much wants to get away from any sense that he's a creature or a captive of the left.

Who does Obama think is volunteering and contributing to his campaign? Fox-watching Republicans? Sure, candidates always pivot after their primaries and run to the "center", but Republicans don't generally piss on their base as they make that transition. Our side makes a ritual out of it. That's not how long-term movements are built.

It exposed his campaign as a bunch of liars. The Obama campaign's press show promised people that Obama would "take on" Fox News. Of course, none of that happened. That would've electrified "the left", and we know that Obama doesn't want to do anything that might make him look like a "captive" to it.

The campaign would've been better off just being honest and upfront about Obama's motives, but that might've proven too cynical for supporters that think he can possibly "rise above politics. The campaign would've been better off just being honest and upfront about Obama's motives, but that might've proven too cynical for supporters that think he can possibly "rise above politics". Of course he can't. Yet I suspect that much of the erosion in his momentum of late comes from people realizing that Obama can't possibly deliver what he's promising.

[bigbrother05]

24. Oh my God he went on Fox

I quess there has been no public record of Hillary going on FOX, creating chaos.
President Obama

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. It was his answers, and his unwillingness to represent the Democrats.

And, say what you will about Sen Clinton, she would not go on FAUX and endorse the wonderful ideas of the Republicans over and over.

She may have made a single oblique reference to McCain, but Sen Obama has repeatedly spoken in glowing terms of the party responsible for sponsoring the current criminal cabal in the WH.

[bigbrother05]

28. Iraq war

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

34. Right, he mentioned that he thinks Petreus is top notch and he would take his advice on Iraq, first

and foremost.

Forgot about that.

Oh, that interview.

[bigbrother05]

57. No, did you forget that Hillary voted for the war

Why would a newly elected President not listen to the Generals that are in charge, come on people think

[lwcon]

74. He says that his website wasn't thrown under the bus.

This doesn't sound like Democrats were "thrown under the bus" to you?

What this does demonstrate, and quite clearly so, is that Obama is quite willing to score cheap political points at the expense of his base.

Please read before posting.


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[bobbert]

21. Where's 'other'?

I don't agree with any of those statements.

[Texas Hill Country]

25. that article is hilarious!

[depakid]

29. Just foreshadowing what most Dems might feel come late September...

It could also be that some saw the Fox interview, which showed pretty clearly that the candidate to be less than a progressive icon.

[Mezzo]

31. I wonder why everybody seems so upset.

:shrug:

[Jamastiene]

96. ...

:spray:

:popcorn:

[JuniperLea]

32. Kos should be on the list of sites we can't use as a reference here

I just can't stomach his bullshit writing anymore. He does Obama no favors at all.

[cali]

33. Like it or not, kos is by far and away the most influential blog

on the net. Why do you think Kerry Conyers and dozens and dozens other Congressional dems blog there? Why do you think that hundreds of dems running for office blog there? And it's terrific on issues like the environment. Fucking ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn't be cited here.

[JuniperLea]

42. Fucking ridiculous to think that everyone

understands the difference between opinion and fact.

Blogs should not be cited as a source of information. Anyone can post anything on a blog.

[cali]

52. bzzzt. some bloggers actually use facts to make their case, genius

your generalization is, well, stupid. duh. Witness Juan Cole, Glenn Greenwald, bloggers on *gasp* kos, and others.

[JuniperLea]

67. Then dumbasses should use the actual link to facts

Instead of a link to yet another opinion, dumbass.

[cali]

85. why? because you

can't handle the links in an original blog piece? Sorry, if you're that fucking stupid, that's your problem, idiot.

:hi:

[futureliveshere]

40. That is a load of crap. Kos has gone on record to say how much he appreciates Obama's strategy

That does NOT mean that they need to agree about everything. Grow up!!

[JuniperLea]

44. Opinion vs Fact

Blogs are opinion and should not be used as a source to back up anything.

Grow the fuck up yourself, and while you're at it, learn to read for comprehension.

[futureliveshere]

49. This is also an Opinion Poll that we are posting our comments on

Most of the pieces we talk about over here are somebody's opinion/interpretation. Facts seem to have vanished from todays media coverage long back. But I understand your point. I didn't get it from your original comment, but from your response to cali. Sorry to have jumped at you.

[JuniperLea]

51. I'm happy to see you figured that out

This is an opinion board, and when FACTS are posted, most here like to see it backed up with a link to a credible source... my problem is with people who take what Kos says as fact. It's not. His only credit is having the money to buy a website and support staff.


No worries:)

[cali]

53. idiotic. some posts on kos are fact based. others lean toward opinion

kos is hardly the only front pager. There are front pagers who are lawyers with one focus or another. there are front pagers who have expertise in other fields.

[JuniperLea]

63. Blogs are not a credible source eom

[futureliveshere]

68. Yes & No.. There are many credible SME's who post on Kos.

There are many many posts out there which are backed by solid facts. So I don't agree with you on that. In fact Kos has become the highest read site on the progressive side.. Only Drudge rivals its site traffic, so lets not flame Kos quite so fast. Thats my 2 cents on the topic.

Anyway this is a stupid argument on a stupid opinion poll of a couple of opinions... Peace!!

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

70. It's still opinion...

And we cannot confuse opinion with fact... and that is what I see happening here.

[cali]

86. lot's of opinion pieces place links

to facts or cite facts in a traditional and widely approved way. They often bring lots of facts together in one place. You're the one that's confused if you don't understant that. Larry Lessig for example, blogs on tech and the law. He uses lots of facts and, duh, he is a leading expert.

[davidlynch]

35. MoveOn Link Simply Says Obama Shouldn't Have Gone on FOX--No Hit of "Remorse" or "Shock" n/t

[Zodiak]

43. That is because the OP is another amateur spinmeister

Insulting everyone's intelligence by misrepresenting everything linked.

[davidlynch]

36. MoveOn Link Simply Says Obama Shouldn't Have Gone on FOX--No Hit of "Remorse" or "Shock" n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

38. This paragraph seems to sum up their disappointment.

Barack Obama's campaign made a promise before this weekend's appearance. They said he would "take Fox on" – inspiring hope among those who watched Bill Clinton in 2006, Chris Dodd in 2007, and progressive activist Lee Camp in 2008 delegitimize FOX on the air. But Obama didn't do that, and he suffered as a result.

Why didn't he go in and call them on their BS instead of repeating RW talking points? Especially because that was what he promised? Who knows.:shrug:

[futureliveshere]

37. That interview was well done and perfectly timed for Indiana.

Kos and Adam Green will also MoveOn soon. This is part of the whole dialogue and should be encouraged. You are only angry about someone if you CARE abou them. So, its all part of the family.

[BlueIdaho]

39. How good was Obama's interview on Fox?

The Clintons have said jack shit about it - that's how good it was.

When a campaign will grasp at any little thing like a drowning man - the fact that they gave this issue a pass says plenty.

[Bright Eyes]

41. "Obuyer's remorse"

GROW UP.

[haymakeragain]

46. Damn, that's a poll you can find in

The Hillobeans Daily News. Got any more, that's was funnier than wooden lag? My ribs are still hurting.

[nichomachus]

47. Please flush twice -- this is a big load

[Warren DeMontague]

48. The bogus "Transcript" you link to contains some jackass's inserted commentary.

What is this, Mystery Science Theater 3000?


Got a link to a LEGITIMATE transcript?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

62. Here on FAUX, where the interview was done. And, FAUX is having a field day with

the Wright issue.

Here's the transcript, gawd I hate going over there. :puke:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352785,00.html

[rucky]

55. Now that everybody's been thrown under the bus,

Who's driving this thing?

[Orsino]

56. Other: "Obama is about to break down and cry...

...and then everyone who ever made fun of me will be sorry."

You forgot that one.

[stillcool]

58. Funny how the comments don't support...

the opinions of Kos and Adam Green. And what was that site you linked to?

[JuniperLea]

64. There are still a few dumbasses praising Kos as a source

But I agree... opinions are not a credible source. I don't think blogs, regardless of how they are regarded by many, should be allowed as a source to back up opinions here. Opinions backed by opinions is pretty stupid.

Edited to say, I for one wish Obama were MORE influenced by Rev. Wright! Wright Rocks!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

65. Kos has been a mainstay blogging source for years for Democrats.

AND, helloooo, they support SEN OBAMA, so maybe you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss that support.

[JuniperLea]

66. Opinions are opinions

Everybody's got them and no one set is better than the next. DU has been around a lot longer, and I wouldn't use an opinion here to support anything either.

I don't think they are doing Obama any good...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

69. Oh Kay, I am just guessing you're not a Democrat.

SWAG along with me. :hi:

[JuniperLea]

75. You'd be guessing wrong:)

I don't belong to an organized, lock-step party... :hi:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

81. Not anymore, you're a Democrat.

:hi:

[stillcool]

72. There were a lot of comments...

on that post that did not agree that Obama should not have gone on to Fox, or if he did to take them to ask!

[Hoof Hearted]

76. They realized Obama's chickens have come home to . .

jump in the fryer.

[Seabiscuit]

80. :)

:)

[stevenleser]

78. Official "You are spinning out of control" *PLONK*

[DemGa]

79. "Kos" is afraid his website will fold

He staked it all on Obama - that site will be one gem of a moneymaker - Gone.

[jpalmer]

91. Can Gore save us from the Kos-Obama split?

If Kos is jumping ship on Obama, we are in major trouble. What options do we have if we on the left implode? People keep discussing this "Denver Plan" which would reformulate the Democratic field after the primaries and before the convention. It looks now like either Obama or Clinton would be the vp with Gore inserted as the party unity consensus candidate. Apparently, it would not happen if one of the two current candidates emerges from the primaries with a strong case to be the nominee, but is almost certain to happen if things are still fractured in June. Dean talked about the issues on Meet the Press Sunday, and former Gore advisor Donna Brazile made references to the idea on ABC on Sunday. Would you guys vote for a Gore-Obama ticket, if Hillary was made Secretary of State and Bill Clinton was promised the UN Ambassadorship followed by a term as the UN Secretary-General?

[DemGa]

94. I wouldn't go for Obama in any capacity - He's political poison

[krkaufman]

83. ha! Your point sure would have had more weight if either kos or MoveOn ...

... actually felt that Obama had thrown them under the bus. kos is taunting the foolishness of people like the OPer, for thinking supporters would blindly praise every Obama move and be appalled when he veers from the preferred path.

chortle. Good final laugh for the night. Thanks.

[lwcon]

84. Take a look at the comments Kos is getting on that post

They're livid.

Kos doesn't feel his site was, in particular, thrown under the bus -- he'd look kinda think-skinned if he carped about the DailyKos -- just the core of the party was.

What part of "disrespected his base" don't you understand:

"So Obama showed weakness by caving to right-wing bullying taunts (thrilling our political foes), disrespected his base, gave Fox a propaganda victory, exposed his campaign as a bunch of liars who promised something their candidate was clearly incapable of delivering, and defended the Democratic spinelessness that gave us the most ridiculous Supreme Court in generations."

Now, Kos's base feels disrespected because he criticized their infallible candidate. Even Kos understands this mentality, as he notes at the end: "MoveOn agrees. They suck too because they don't blindly praise every one of Obama's moves."

As to the MoveOn piece, what part of "parroting the right-wing caricature of 'Chablis-drinking limousine liberals'" don't you understand?

"Because Obama didn't 'take on' the Republican framing of these questions, Obama was cornered into saying things like, 'I think there are a whole host of areas where Republicans in some cases may have a better idea ' and parroting the right-wing caricature of 'Chablis-drinking limousine liberals' and boasting about being 'fiercely attacked' by bloggers at Daily Kos."


"They only see what they want to see." -- M. Night Shyamalan

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[BleedingHeartPatriot]

88. "ha!" Tweety, is that you?

:hi:

[davidpdx]

87. Faux outrage

[hokies4ever]

90. Hillary is going on the O'Reilly Factor

so the Fox News Sunday show is the lesser of these two evils

[GihrenZabi]

92. Screw MoveOn.org

They're a gaggle of morons. Don't even tell me they're proper Liberals. They support the system as it currently stands. They're getting pissed because they realize that Obama could give a damn about the traditional Democratic Party which they support.

Even if he did throw Democrats under the bus - GOOD. They deserve it. The Democratic Party has been cowardly and ineffectual for going on twenty years now. Run to the center, abandon your Progressive principles, kowtow to the Republicans - the Democratic Party needs a swift kick in the ass and a complete reshaping if it wants to be relevant and a true alternative to Republicanism.

Obama can provide that boot up the ass of the old-school Democrats who so badly need to be kicked out of the driver's seats.

[GihrenZabi]

93. Vastleft

Anyone self-important enough to interject his commentary practically line-by-line in a report of an interview strikes me as someone more concerned with being heard than saying anything of import...