Again...I've never heard a good answer for this...why does HRC hate activists and idealists?

[Ken Burch]

What kind of a party would we have if she got her way and everyone who backs the Obama movement or who backed Edwards or Kucinich ended up completely out in the cold?

What kind of a party would we have if all the dreamers were silenced?

I'd like to know what that party would be like.

And I'd really like those HRC people who claim to be "progressive" to tell us why that kind of a party would be worth having, since it wouldn't be different than the the GOP.

A party whose tone is antiidealist can't be progressive or populist in office.

[lisa58]

1. because they don't endorse her campaign

[hokies4ever]

6. no joke

sad thing is, that was the reason she gave. When asked what she disagrees with moveon.org about, she pointed out their endorsement of Obama.

[kevinbgoode]

10. I agree.

[supernova]

2. We'd have old-school country club Republicans

The Dem party would morph into old fashioned Repubs, they ones HRC and her friends remember growing up.

That might be OK as an oppositional party, but that's not the direction the Dem party needs to go. I think the more liberal republicans need to go home and reclaim their party from the reaganites and neocons instead of trying to remake the Dem party in their own image.

[bowens43]

3. She hates everyone who dares to attempt to deny her what is rightfully hers.

[olkaz]

37. "rightfully hers"

This is probably flamebait, but this idea of "her turn" is ubiquitous throughout the Hillarati blogosphere.

I can't imagine using entitlement as a genuine reason to select my candidate.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. She's Always Hated Them

The Clintons' strategy has always been to take positions as far to the right as they could without going further than the Republicans: the middle would prefer them to the Republicans, and who the &^%$ else would the Democrats vote for? This is what triangulation was all about.

That used to work great, before activists and idealists were an important force. Thinks to the Internet, and to their growing numbers, activists and idealists now have a voice. So patented Clinton strategy of triangulation is failing. And she's very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very angry.

[KittyWampus]

36. and bitter. You forgot bitter. It's personal for Hillary. She can't stand the thought of having

put up with all that shit from Bill for nothing.

[LWolf]

5. I haven't heard that she hates idealists.

I am a defiant idealist, and just yesterday an Obama supporter on this board told me my idealism was "cute" and impractical. The poster was defending his support of republican ideals like de-regulation.

What makes you think "anti-idealism" is an exclusive HRC attitude?

[Ken Burch]

16. The person who said that to you was a jerk.

I was a Kucinich person too. I switched to Obama later because that was the last campaign where progressives were welcome(they're not allowed for all practical purposes in the HRC campaign).

What was said to you by that person, obnoxious as it was, was that person's hangup. It wasn't an official meme of the campaign, like the bashing of "latte sippers" and the young carried out by HRC surrogates(and thus, obviously with HRC's blessing) all over the country.

The Obama campaign is not as progressive as it should be, but it is the place where activists and idealists are respected and it is the only campaign that will hear us after the swearing in. The HRC campaign thinks people like you and me don't matter.

[LWolf]

41. You are correct, of course. n/t

[aquarius dawning]

7. because the question "why does HRC hate activists and idealists" is fallacious.

That's almost like asking "why does Barack Obama hate the Star Spangled Banner".

[burythehatchet]

9. almost. I remember that time when Barack was railing against the Star Spangled

Banner at the closed door meeting with his financial backers.

[Ken Burch]

15. The bashing of the mythical "latte sippers" and the antiyouth rhetoric

Are spread by HRC supporters everywhere.

Why do you guys hate activists and the young anyway? Without them, politics wouldn't mean anything?

The cynical, middle-aged and nonradical never do anything of value.

[PBS Poll-435]

22. Again with the invented rules....

"The cynical, middle-aged and nonradical never do anything of value."

[Ken Burch]

25. Why do you want to give politicians such wiggle room?

You're attitude seems to be "it's enough to elect somebody who CALLS herself a Democrat".

And it also seems to be "we should be perfectly happy with tiny incremental crumbs".

Why are your dreams so small?

Why even involve yourself in politics if you're just going to settle for what they give you?

[PBS Poll-435]

27. What in the HELL are you talking about.?

Like I said below....You don't know me.

Stop putting your words into MY thought bubbles.

Thanks!

[Ken Burch]

28. I know what you post here.

What you post here is usually contemptuous towards activists, progressives, and idealists. Your view seems to be(and if it's not there's nothing here that would show me that)that the type of people I mentioned in the first sentence of this post have no place in this party and no right to expect that this party will respect their beliefs.

And it also appears from your posts that you think we should just accept what our politicians deign to offer us, and ask nothing more.
That's why I described you has having "blind faith" in that candidate.

Your vision of a party, from what I can see, is a party that doesn't stand for much of anything. It's vaguely decent, but not to the point of offending anyone powerful.

[PBS Poll-435]

30. Now you have done it...

What you post here is usually contemptuous towards activists, progressives, and idealists.

Umm... I think you are going to need to prove that charge.

[aquarius dawning]

32. Obama's supporters have bashed women, aged people, white people, and anyone else

that declined to partake of their kool-aid. Your arguments are, again, false and increasingly weak. This thread should sink into oblivion for everyone's benefit but most especially yours as it is making you look more than a little bit foolish.

[PBS Poll-435]

8. Why do you always invent corollaries?

It is a frightening trend.

"Brown foxes with dyslexia are never late for dinner."

[Ken Burch]

11. You haven't noticed the way she acts like activists have no place in this party?

It's the real reason she bashes Obama so viciously. It's not about him, it's about the fact that he represents an open-door, bottom-up school of politics while she's about cynical closed door "deal making" and thinks that only big donors should matter after the swearing in.

I didn't invent anything, and I'll take your snide comment as proof that you have no case that HRC DOESN'T want the party to be an activist-free zone.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Do you even understand what I said?

Your posts usually have at least one invented rule (or corollary)

Ex. If something is something then they can't be something...

[Ken Burch]

13. None of those are invented. They're what I've observed in life.

History and reality have born them out.

And HRC has shown that she hates activists, idealists, and the young. Even you can't offer anything to prove I'm wrong on that.

Why do you have such unquestioning faith in someone who has always been a right-wing toady to corporate power? Someone who's never taken a risky or unpopular stand on anything? Someone who's never stood up for the powerless?

Why would a non-conservative trust HRC at all?

You follow her blindly. why?

[PBS Poll-435]

18. You need to go to the arts & crafts store...

Your brushes are far too broad.

"Hates... Young" - I think you are going to need prove that true

"unquestioning faith" - You don't know me and you don't know my path.

"never taken a risky or unpopular stand on anything?" - You know that's false and it makes you look silly & trivial.

[Ken Burch]

21. It's not false.

HRC has never taken a position on any issue that wasn't safe and poll-driven. She never walked a picket line, she stood by and said nothing when NAFTA was rammed through and the welfare mothers were betrayed. Those were what mattered, not side issues like a watered-down "pro-choice" stance.

You can't point to a single risk she's ever taken, or a single time she's ever defended the poor or the powerless.

And you're right, I don't know you're whole life path, but this year you've decided that it has to be HRC and that she can never be questioned. I'd really like to know why you give her that much benefit of the doubt. She doesn't deserve it.

[PBS Poll-435]

23. You need to answer the other points of my previous message.

[Ken Burch]

26. The "Latte sippers" and the stereotypes about Obama people are antiyouth

She may not say them herself(she lets her attack dogs say them for her)but she has to believe in them if she lets them say them.

As to "your path", I don't know you so I can only go on what you post here. And what you post here is that HRC can do no wrong and that we should all just be glad to settle for the tiny crumbs she offers because we're unworthy of anything more, and also that idealists are silly to think that the party we support should actually RESPECT our beliefs.

There's nothing in your posts to support the belief that you think our party should be progressive, or that activists and idealists should have a place in it. If that's not what you believe, there'd be no way for me to tell that.

[PBS Poll-435]

29. Well that was a steaming pile...

Your bizzare accusations & assumptions are flawed.

Tiny crumbs? This is not a Dicken's novel.

Latte = Young & Hip & Idealistic? Really? REally?



YOU are the one making broad generalizations.

[Ken Burch]

31. Your candidate is against progressive change.

She doesn't want an idealistic climate to govern in. She'd prefer(and all her actions in the campaign show this)to not have the country even be a millimetre to the left of where it was in 1992.

And the "latte sippers" thing was a HRC meme, I didn't make it up. It was referring to young people in espresso shops, which tend to be idealistic places and gathering points for people with dreams of a better world. She wasn't bashing the rich when her surrogates used that one.

HRC's whole tone is to the right of Obama. If you talk like a right winger in the campaign, it's damn difficult to not govern as a right-winger. HRC never needed to run as an activist basher and a cultural conservative to win.

[PBS Poll-435]

33. Again....

She doesn't want an idealistic climate to govern in. - PROVE IT


And the "latte sippers" thing was a HRC meme, - Nope, a Rush Limbaugh thing from a bout a decade and a half ago...


espresso shops, which tend to be idealistic places and gathering points for people with dreams of a better world. - Wow. I don't really have any criticism of that. I just wanted to re-type it & see if I could get a contact high.


"cultural conservative" ??? Prove that one too.

[NJmaverick]

14. Because they support the Democratic Party's ideals and she doesn't

plus they are messing up her plans of achieving more power.

[Tyler Durden]

17. When did you stop beating your wife?

Equally stupid question.

[Ken Burch]

20. No. The antiidealist and antiactivist bias of the HRC campaign is well-known

Pennsylvania proved it. Her bashing of MoveOn proves it. We CAN assume that a HRC presidency would be an ideals-free zone.

[Swamp Rat]

19. We are the enemy of the PNAC/DLC neocons.

[Independent-Voter]

24. She's always been a shrill Goldwater Girl at heart. No surprise here.

[CK_John]

34. Nor get elected. Everything is not about hate and bile, it is about the

practical aspects of gaining office in order to effect change.

[Orsino]

35. Because they remind her of what she once was?

I doubt that she actually hates such people, but she is obviously willing to dismiss them if doing so makes her numbers look better. That's not hate, exactly; just the isolation of the elistist.

[joeybee12]

38. Why do you hate America?

Same rationale for your question...to assume you don't agree with someone else means you hate them? Pulleeze!

[Skidmore]

39. There will be two versions of the Republican party.

[mmonk]

40. Your last sentence.

That is what it's about and what some don't see. It's about a broken and corrupt system run on the money of the powerful.

[TexasObserver]

42. Hillary's entire political life has been to follow the power, not principle

That's why she can flow so easily from Goldwater girl to RFK, to Watergate staff, to Rose firm atty, to Walmart director, to first lady, to first lady, to DLC poster girl, to beer chugging, shot drinking Hillary the Country Hick, hatin' on the brother.