Hillary will end up with the popular vote....

[YEM]

With the contests left, I have no doubt that she will end up with more in the popular vote category. And she will be ahead in Super Delegates. She is not far behind Obama right now in popular vote. Indiana and PR will put her over the top.

[Waya]

1. Have you been paying attention at all?

What are you smoking?

[Mezzo]

12. yep, it seems YOU have not.

You don't get to throw out votes. I don't give a shit what Dean says, those delegates are being seated. You can keep fooling yourself into thinking they're not.

[Nederland]

19. Speaking of throwing out votes

I hope you aren't planing on throwing out the votes of all those Obama supporters in Michigan and all those Obama supporters in caucus states that don't record the popular vote totals.

Cause, you know, throwing out votes is like, wrong...

:eyes:

[Waya]

21. Sure they'll be seated. .......

......but not 'as is'. Florida, maybe - but even with Florida 'as is' she'll be behind in the popular by around 300,000. Michigan will not be seated 'as is' - no way........

[olkaz]

2. Thanks for the truthiness update.

Any advice on the stock market?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Buy Bear Stearns.

It's hot hot hot.

[olkaz]

11. I'm on it!

Gonna be rich!

[rainy]

3. Popular vote doesn't count. Dean already said the one with

the most deligates wins.

[tritsofme]

6. He didn't clarify that remark to say pledged delegates.

And of course the candidate with the most delegates (2024+) at the time the first ballot is counted up will win.

[jsamuel]

10. Right, the most delegates wins, not the most pledged delegates.

[YEM]

I don't understand the attacks here by some freaks.

If you count Florida, she is way ahead in popular vote. And she is winning the Super-delegate count. What are the attacks for?


Nervous??

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Campaigning should be illegal, don't you agree?

[bowens43]

22. Nervous? No.

just tired of seeing hillary and her lemmings trying to steal , lie and cheat thier way into the nomintaion

[zonkers]

47. She is the low road. My soul needs the high road right now. I dont think I am alone.

???

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Look again. Even counting florida, she's still behind. nt

[nxylas]

35. Nope, even with Florida she's still behind

Only if you include Michigan, where Obama wasn't on the ballot, does she pull ahead.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[rainy]

41. popular votes have nothing to do with it and supers better vote as the

state goes or there will be some angry Americans. I don't trust the vote in Florida. I think it is hacked no matter what.

[quakerboy]

48. Try reality

its not so bad. Even if you count the Florida beauty contest, she is still considerably behind in votes.

[skooooo]

5. Sure if you count Florida and Michigan and ignore the rules.

Anything is possible if you just ignore the rules!!!

[tritsofme]

8. How is counting heads and lobbying SDs to hear your argument

changing the rules?

The only people who want to change the rules are Obama supporters that say the candidate with most pledged delegates wins the nomination.

[azmouse]

16. Because Hillary said FL and MI wouldn't count before she got behind

and knew she needed those votes. NOW they matter.

buh-bye Hilly.

[Zodiak]

27. The ONLY people?

Hyperbole alert.

[Skwmom]

7. Oh the Rush Limbaugh voters would love to take credit for getting her the nomination.

[azmouse]

9. And thanks for playing People Without a Clue!

[mcctatas]

13. How many posts are you going to make restating the same

idiotic talking point?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5735313&mesg_id=5735313

at least you can only inflict one more on us today:crazy:

[YEM]

15. Some sore losers here. WOW.

Obrahma can't win a big state. I voted for him in pa, but it's clear he can't win a state like that.

[azmouse]

17. Oh brother....

Obama will win in Nov. Get over it.

buh-bye Hilly.

[Cha]

14. Fuckings liars like hilary need to

lose..not a very good role model for the country.

"Why Hillary’s Lies are Important"

- March 24, 2008, 9:53PM
Hillary Clinton has been caught in a series of lies and misrepresentations during the primary campaign. To some of her supporters, these lies may seem trivial and insignificant and even politics-as-usual. However, please consider the serious impact of these lies by placing them in the context of the past seven years of the Bush Administration and the legacy of expanded executive power that he leaves behind. In particular, consider the dangerous message that the Clinton campaign sends by employing similar tactics to achieve her political goals.

1. The Florida and Michigan Primaries / The Delegate Count
Hillary agreed to honor the DNC’s decision to strip Florida and Michigan of its delegates after their primaries were moved up into January in express violation of the DNC rules. She did not change her position on the validity of these primaries until she found herself unexpectedly behind in the delegate count and desperately needed to claim the delegates that she had won in these unsanctioned contests. As her chances of winning the nomination became increasingly slim in recent weeks, we have been presented with threatening and desperate lines of reasoning for why these primary results should count as is. At the same time, Clinton and her surrogates continue to propose different metrics for determining who should win the nomination even though there is and has been a clearly defined process in place for several decades.

Please think about the implications of changing election rules after the fact. We have suffered through at least one stolen presidential election and the manipulation of untold numbers of Congressional and state elections through various vote tampering and voter intimidation schemes used by the Republicans and their allies. The American people (and especially Democratic voters) have lost faith in the integrity of the election process. The Clinton strategy to continually change the rules for determining the Democratic Party nominee sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to increasingly un-Democratic elections in the future if it is allowed to succeed. If anything, we need more transparency and methods of accountability in our elections in order to repair the damage done in recent years and to restore our confidence in the Government.

2. The Bosnia Fabrication / Exaggerated Experience Claims
Hillary fabricated a story about a dangerous, life-risking visit to Bosnia in order to gain stature as an experienced negotiator in international conflicts and war. While this type of embellishment can seem almost comical, it represents a willingness to distort reality in order to influence the public perception. This is the same type of distortion that the Bush administration used to justify the war in Iraq, although the magnitude of the lie is certainly on a different scale. The Bush administration falsified reports, cherry-picked intelligence, used unreliable sources, and employed fear-mongering tactics to convince the American public that our safety was at risk and as such, you were either with us or with the terrorists. The lies used by President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are impeachable offenses and should be condemned by all Americans. Sadly, the Clinton campaign seems to have shown a shocking willingness to employ the same tactics to create a more favorable reality and to rely on divide-and-conquer rhetoric to weaken opposition. Her attempts to frighten the American people by conjuring up 3 AM phone calls are bad enough, but her vote of confidence in John McCain over Barack Obama should be seen as treason against the Democratic Party.

3. NAFTA
Hillary lied about her position on NAFTA and used her lies in a calculated way to influence the Ohio primary. Recently released White House documents confirm that Hillary had been an active proponent of NAFTA prior to its passage, and she has continued to support it publicly in her speeches and memoir. However, while campaigning in Ohio, she claimed to have been privately against NAFTA during the Clinton presidency and believes that it should be rewritten to protect American jobs and workers. This type of maneuvering is reminiscent of the behind-closed-doors policy-making that the Bush administration has used during the past seven years. Specifically, Bush and Cheney have made policy decisions without providing transparency to Congress or the public, and President Bush has repeatedly ignored the rule of law by issuing signing statements and disregarding the parts of the laws that he doesn’t agree with. If we cannot trust Hillary to be truthful about her positions on critical legislative issues now, how can we trust that she will be truthful as president?

These are just three examples that illustrate the concerns we should have with a candidate who demonstrates a sense of entitlement to the nomination and is willing to lie, misrepresent, threaten, and divide in order to obtain the nomination. President Bush and the neoconservative movement have greatly harmed this country by the creation of an imperial-like presidency. This election is not just about whether a Democrat or Republican wins but if the checks and balances are restored to the three branches of government. The framers of the Constitution were in such fear of an imperial president that mechanisms for impeachment are prominently and explicitly included in the Constitution. If Hillary Clinton is willing to use lies and deceit to win the Democratic nomination, what assurances do we have that she will not continue to use them once she is president?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/why-h ...

<snip>

"Her response to being caught lying to a military audience, when she invented a story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, was to say it wasn't surprising she got some things wrong, seeing how she spoke millions of words every day. What a magnificent idea, that if you say lots of words some of them are bound to be fantastic lies. So if you listen carefully to horse-racing commentators they say things like "And it's Teddy's Boy still leading three furlongs out as they come up to the fourth last fence with Nip and Tuck two lengths behind by the way I fought a tiger once, punched it clean out and they're all safely over."


<lots more>
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/article3 ...

"It's not that lying to pad the resume, avoid Indictment or to advance her political fortune is anything new for Hillary Clinton. She famously said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary (debunked); she told New Yorkers she was a Yankee fan when she lived in Chicago (debunked); she told rural New Yorkers that she was a "duck hunter" (debunked); she claimed that her daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center at the time of the 9/11 attack (debunked by Chelsea herself.) And, those subpoenaed Rose Law billing records just happened to show up one day on a hallway table in the most monitored home in America!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[JackORoses]

20. she is 500,000 votes behind. North Carolina will erase the gains she made in Pennsylvania.

Are you seriously counting on Puerto Rico to save Hillary?

I pity you.

[bowens43]

23. Keep dreaming...

[BlueIdaho]

24. One more time

There is no reliable popular vote total in a system that uses a mix of traditional primaries and caucuses. No - "estimates" of caucus votes don't count unless you also wan to use "estimates" for the whole system.

This is nonsense.

[YEM]

25. Wow. What a disgrace some of you are

Truly

[Zodiak]

28. Yup....we respect the party rules

Argue using actual facts, and do not resort to intelligence-insulting arguments devoid of any root in reality.

What a disgrace we are.

[Waya]

29. Nothing disgraceful about it.............

..it's common sense. If the popular vote counted for anything - Al Gore would be President...................

[BlueIdaho]

40. I am impressed with the clarity of your cogent argument - not.

That's it? That's all you got?

Pitiful.

[onenote]

50. actually, what is disgraceful is coming here with funny numbers and not even trying to defend them

You claim that just counting Florida, Hillary is ahead. That is wrong. Here are the numbers, and the only scenarios under which HRC leads Obama in popular votes require giving HRC credit for votes in Michigan and Obama no credit for any popular support in that state. I mean this with no disrespect, but do you honestly think a superdelegate is going to pretend that noone in Michigan supports Obama, assuming that superdelegate is influenced by the popular vote nationwide?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

And as for your contention that HRC is way ahead in Superdelegates, well, its currently 21 and dropping faster than you can or will say, "oops I'm wrong about that too" (In fact, I believe that with the latest updates, the margin may be less than 20).

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html


Feel free to apologize to the board for your mis/dis information campaign.

[Hamlette]

26. It's new math...or Hillary math

The biggest state left is NC and he'll beat her by 10% there.

And when you calculate in the caucus states (as you should) she's down 600,000.

So, with the caucus states and a 10% win in NC he'll be up 750,000.

So, IN has 900,000 votes (expected) as does PR. Let's say she wins IN by 10% (not likely) she chips 90,000 off his lead. So...you say she'll get 90% of the vote in PR?

A place that doesn't even get to decide who the prez is?

I don't think so.

[WeDidIt]

30. IF she takes more than 65% of the vote in all remaining constests

you're right.

[Waya]

31. Yea, like that's gonna happen.................

[DefenseLawyer]

33. What the hell is "the popular vote"?

Considering some states have caucuses to choose delegates, there is no "popular vote" in those states. Well, as Hillary is fond of saying, I guess "that's not relevant".

[thoughtcrime1984]

34. No she won't, and popular vote means ZERO anyway

If popular votes meant everything, there'd be no caucuses, because of traditionally lower turnout. All primaries would either be open or closed, we wouldn't have some that are open while others are closed, because that would be disenfranchising to the states that held closed primaries (as well as caucuses). To say popular vote is the metric that counts is to be ignorant of the Primary process. Obama will win that as well (I'm sure you are counting him at zero in MI, which is typically disingenuous), but total delegates are what is important. He will in all probability reach 2025 in May or June. And for those who say that he needs the SD's to get over the top, well, so does Hil, and a LOT more of them. If there were no SD's at all, and we just went with the simple majority of pledged delegates, then Obama would be very close to having this wrapped up already. May 6 would have very likely ended the race.

[cui bono]

36. WTF is wrong with you people who don't understand how the primary works???

you can't determine the exact popular vote because of the caucuses.

Got this board is so fucking ridiculous it's surprising that it's called DEMOCRATIC Underground.

[thoughtcrime1984]

37. I guess even the smarter of the two parties has some thick-skulled types. nt

[NYCGirl]

38. That, and $2.00, will get her on the subway.

(A NYC saying.) BTW, I think she will NOT get the popular vote.

[cali]

39. ooh, another faux psychic for hillykins. how cute.

and sorry, SDs are going to Obama in ever increasing numbers. He got 4 in the last two days. poor hilly got one. He has them behind him to roll out. that's been widely reported.

[JoFerret]

42. Sounds on target .

Then what?

[Lucky 13]

43. Dreaming again?

It's not about popular vote. It's about delegates. And Obama eats into her superdelegate lead daily. She's down to +18. He's got 50 more waiting in the wings.

Even if it WAS about popular vote, she won't get that either.

This thing is over. And this robocall nonsense is about to blow up in her face.

[vegetabletasty]

44. Why do we count PR if PR can't even vote in the General Elections?

I never understood that. Either let puertoricans vote in the GE or strip them of their delegates.

[scheming daemons]

45. She will lose over 300,000 votes in NC and Oregon combined

Add that to the 500,000 lead he already has, she would have to make up 800,000 votes in WV, KY, IN, and PR.

There might not even be 800,000 total voters in those states.




Unless you count Florida and Michigan, which you can't and the SDs won't, then she can't and won't catch him in popular vote.

[kwenu]

46. Run the numbers for us PLEASE. We like to see the math so we can check it.

[PseudoIntellect]

49. So maybe she'll have the popular vote...and....?

What would that imply?

[DearAbby]

51. Yem Yeminty Yem Yem Charooooo

You forgot about the caucus's
so what will you doooooooo?