Question about Obama and Workers

[DaveJ]

I listened to Obama speaking at a rally yesterday on CNN. And when he talked about the living wage issue, it seemed that most of his focus was on the 'fact' that it is 'reality' these days that you need an education and good training in order to do well. For instance, he mentioned how even an auto mechanic needs high tech skills. He also addressed the need to keep good jobs in the U.S.

Most of what he said is fine, but I'm not sure how this addresses the overall concerns of workers in 'reality'. What about the jobs that we need, but might always be low paying? Many jobs do not and will never require much education or skill. But those jobs are needed. Are these people going to continue to be in trouble? Does he have any ideas how they can obtain a house, financial security, a vacation, and an honorable retirement? What is his perspective on this? I'm sure that trickle down theory isn't it, or is it?

[DaveJ]

1. I don't think I was very clear...

If I had been clear in my above post, I'm sure someone would have responded.

We need millions of workers in jobs that are not considered high skilled. How would they be better off? We can't just say 'get some skills or too bad' because companies depend on their invaluable work. We need many more than the teenage population can supply. What about people who can't get an education because of a learning disability or some other reason? Are they still SOL no matter what, doomed to never own a home, never go on a vacation, never to retire with dignity? It doesn't sound that much different than the neocon perspective.

This is not a rhetorical question. I'm sure there is some answer than I'm just not comprehending at the moment.

[crankychatter]

12. he specifically mentioned annual raises in the minimum wage

which isn't the same thing as a guaranteed "living wage" but in the context of modern times? it's revolutionary.

[crankychatter]

13. further his health care plan will make SOME type of health benefits available

and affordable where NONE exist today

[crankychatter]

14. also, expanded support for early childhood education as well as before/after school programs

will help working families obtain much needed extra income

as well as help prepare a future generation for a healthier and hopefully, more prosperous life

[DaveJ]

21. Frankly, that's all I needed to know.

I obviously didn't hear the entire speech, but these are well thought out decisions that I think will trickle up and create a better economy.

Admittedly, I'm daft when it comes to politics, so sorry if I made any ruckus downstream and thanks for the info!

[crankychatter]

22. dude, I'm a ladder monkey

it don't say "genius" anywhere ON my resume'

you're fine

:-)

I haven't even looked downstream... don't think I will

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. My feeling is that the "even a mechanic needs tech skills" is a smokescreen

It enables corporate candidates (both Hillary and Obama qualify) to push for more visas (our schools simply can't turn out enough techies!) and relaxed enforcement of illegal immigration (they're doing jobs no one here will do).

Education is no panacea. It is only necessary to the degree that the economy has jobs for which a high degree of education is required. Turn out more educated people, a labor surplus results and the pay drops.

Meanwhile, our median wage falls, our population increases and our employment to population ratio continues to decline.

Our elected officials long ago decided to push the interests of "the economy" as a proxy for the interests of the citizens. This won't change until they receive a wakeup call.

[barack the house]

3. It will take some kind of re-training but education is, his key policy. More jobs will generate by

new green industries I feel from what he has mentioned so far.

[DaveJ]

4. Still sounds like the attitude is, if you don't have training...

...then they shouldn't expect to live a good life.

That seems to be the message and I've heard nothing to the contrary.

This message really needs to be delivered to employers, especially corporations that operate under governmental guidelines.

Now, business LOVES untrained workers, salivate over their ability to pay them low wages for their hard work. A better message, IMO, would be to persuade companies to stop taking advantage of the unskilled, and somehow reward them based on how well they treat their employees.

Otherwise he's just promising jobs, which is fine, but that message coming from a candidate is nothing new, and it still does not directly benefit the people at the bottom who work the hardest.

[Barack_America]

5. Those low-tech, low-paying jobs are becoming obsolete in this country...

And there's not very much we can do about it. That's how globalization works.

So what we have to do is become more skilled and creative. We've got to start focusing on (and investing in) new kinds of jobs. Less grunt work, more mind work. Our "grunts" are too expensive these days.

We have unique perspective and creativity to offer the global workplace. We need to tap into that.

The above, for me, is what Obama is saying.

[DaveJ]

6. Shouldn't employers focus on this?

Seriously, one major problem is that someone can go to college and get all the skills in the world, but if all they have to go back to is McDonalds and Walmart then getting educated is kind of pointless.

People are not obtuse. Young people aren't. They see a world where a moron can become an international superstar or President, they see college grads getting nowhere, just steeped into debt, and they become fearful that getting an education will be a waste of time. So, I differ from the perspective the "we" have to focus on becoming more skilled. Most of us are not employers. Because becoming more skilled is pointless unless there are jobs available to use those skills. We are not the ones who need to be lectured on this, it's employers who do.

I'm sure that's what the Obama campaign means to say.

The real solution is that employers should offer their employees opportunities to become more educated while at work, and reward them appropriately.

[anigbrowl]

8. If you have good skills, you don't have to go work for WalMart

Unless you want to be a corporate lawyer :-) Seriously, if you're skilled, you can get hired. If there's no work where you are, you go where the work is. You might have noticed Obama is offering extra help for education as well.

I don't think you understand economics that well. Companies can't create jobs just to give people something to do; if they attempted to do so, pices would go up significantly. Some people here think 'economics' is code for 'exploitation' but my experience is that they rarely understand anything about money o business. You can't just conjure jobs out of the air, and putting up huge trade barriers doesn't work well either.

[DaveJ]

10. People without degrees can have skills

Degrees are nice. I have a few. But people without degrees have their reasons, and they should not be sacrificial lambs.

They are the people who will go nowhere unless we adjust our attitude from what neocons have been teaching us.

Jobs, in fact, can be conjured 'out of thin air'. It's called creativity. The educational system is always years behind business. A modern company will have products and services that can only be learned on the job. Now, the accepted attitude is to hire employees for the least amount possible.

The approach we've learned is not to teach employees to learn unique skills that are specific to the job. This differs from the attitude that neocons have been teaching. This is what needs to change.

[Barack_America]

9. Employers from which industries?

I think that's where we start...sort of.

Where we really start is ramping up our math and science education. If you want to find an industry where we have an unparalleled edge, look no further than science, particularly biotech.

But we need to train people for these jobs. And, quite frankly, we need to look long and hard at our 4-year degree minimum requirement. A four-year degree is simply not necessary to perform well at an entry-level in this field.

Between biotech and green industries, I think we could put a sizable dent in our unemployment. Add to that jobs rebuilding our countries infrastructure, and it's a good start.

But I'm admittedly not an economist. I'm actually a scientist. ;)

[DaveJ]

15. Green of course. You get my point perfectly.

When Obama says we need to become more educated, all I can think is that he's talking to the employers, not the employees.

Employees will do whatever the boss tells them. Clean the toilets -- fine. Collect biosamples -- okay. They'll do whatever. It's up to employers to decide. Employers are the driving force of the economy, I think.

Many are not getting degrees because they don't see any worth getting. They should not be punished for their rational decisions.

[terrell9584]

7. But the point is

this is supposed to be a country where, if you at least finish high school, you can provide a good standard of living for your family, because not everyone can afford higher education, and quite honestly, some people aren't intelligent enough for it, but they might have enough intelligence to work on an assembly line, and if we start discriminating against them because of their lower overall intellectual capacity then we aren't much better than the eugenicists a century ago who were advocating sterlization for the poor and infirmed

[Barack_America]

11. Honestly, that was before globalization...

There will still be jobs for those with learning disabilities, but those who can learn and can be trained to work a more skilled job, must.

It's basically economic natural selection. We must adapt or we will go extinct, economically speaking.

[terrell9584]

17. I wasn't talking about learning disabilities

I'm talking about people who were are just plain damn dumb. People who are good people, but well, are never going to be attorneys, even if they were the son of a Kennedy.

Instead of adapting, we ought to be going for self-reliance. I don't buy all this free trade nonsense, I never had. If Clinton had one failing, it was that, though I don't think he realized where it would all lead, plus, from Arkansas's standpoint, it was a good thing because not many American companies were investing in the state, it never had a big textile industry, and of the states in the South, it had always been the least urbanized, and Clinton himself had grown up in a town that was more known as a gambling mecca than for anything related to the American dream or industry.

It has always boggled my mind that we send foreign aid to countries to help them build up their economies so they will be suitable for those jobs to leave America and go there, all with our tax money.

I was born in Beaumont and I spent most of my childhood in Biloxi. You'll never get me to accept the merits of free trade because it goes against everything I grew up in. I personally want to see the world protected where if a kid just is not college material, they can still go out on the rigs or on a shrimp boat and make a living that can be better than a lot of people with college degrees (teachers come to mind). The last state in this country where there is really still a shot for the working man would probably be West Virginia and Alaska, and in WV you take your risks in the mines and in Alaska.....you have to live in Alaska.

I just don't think we should let the American dream die that easily.

[Barack_America]

19. Lol. I was trying to be kind.

But, okay, dumb people.

I don't think that the American dream is dead. Not at all, but it does need to evolve. I actually think it can be better. Less manual, dangerous labor and more skilled labor. I think this is a natural evolution of our society. And I don't think that college is the solution for everyone. If we have stronger science and math education throughout K-12, that will negate a college requirement for Tier 1 tech jobs. For Tier 2 tech jobs, an associate's degree (+ that strong K-12 education) should suffice, and so on and so on. A stronger science education will interest more American kids in science and hopefully will stop our having to import scientists.

For those unwilling or unable to learn, let's put them to work rebuilding our country's infrastructure, which surely needs it. Or send them out on the shrimp boats. But let's get our country off the oil so the money they make goes further.

As for trade agreements, I don't pretend to understand the nuances surrounding them. But I know this much, they need to be carefully regulated and they need to be drafted with the American employee in mind, not just as an afterthought.

I'm for foreign aid because, quite frankly, investing in foreign aid is an investment in global security. And an investment in global security is an investment in lower oil prices, stronger markets, etc.

I've now told you everything I think I know about economics. ;)

[Secret_Society]

16. I'm not sure about Obama...

but I know that HRC has pledged to raise the minimum wage to 9.50 by 2011. This is one of the reasons I supported Hillary after Edwards dropped out since she picked up on this part of his message. Obama has also proposed to raise the minimum wage, but no figure is given on his site. I'm not sure if he has expanded on this elsewhere.

[DaveJ]

18. Hillary seems to understand the working class...

I never understood that before but lately I understand that the working class are not stupid.

The educational system is not a panacea. They understand, better than the college educated, that the employers calls the shots in most cases. Obama is obviously better than BushCo, but he is also not speaking to the American people as much as the American owners.

I support Obama but he should make that distinction a little more clear.

[Barack_America]

20. But Obama understands this country's young minds...

And that's a big reason why I support him.

He understands and motivates the young, educated and enthusiastic Americans to invest in their country. I know many, many young people who are reconsidering forgoing careers in corporate America for public service. And this is all because of what Barack inspires in them.

Our government needs their brains and their creativity so badly. We need their solutions and their energy to carry them through. One of the main reasons our government is the crap that it is was the exodus of minds from public service. So much hinges on whether the young generation reengages with our government...fast.