Rev. Wright, the Black Experience, and White Privilege

[George_Bonanza]

I think there's a big racial divide in the whole Rev. Wright controversy, because I believe a lot of white people simply can't understand why Obama would "freely" choose to associate with someone like Rev. Wright. But they've never been minorities, and they automatically assume that minorities have that white privilege where you're the majority and you get to choose to define yourself and not have society tell you who you should and should not associate yourself with.

Chicago's a city with a large black population, and Rev. Wright was a prominent black leader. As a minority, Obama will often not have the freedom to pick and choose his allies. Yes, Wright may make some incendiary comments now and then, but he's also one of the largest benefactors of the South Side of Chicago. Sometimes, as minorities, you've got to stick together because society's hard enough on you as it is. You don't think that as a young black man, Obama perhaps saw something more to Rev. Wright than the typical middle-class Youtube-surfer sees? To Obama, Rev. Wright may have been a flawed but undeniably positive force in the wretched slums of black Chicago. When you're a minority, those kinds of powerful community leaders are hard to find, and sometimes, you've got to take the bad with the good.

I'm not nearly as eloquent or thorough as I could be with this whole topic, but my main point is that I feel a lot of Obama's critics are completely blind to their white privilege when they say things like: "You can choose your pastor". You just don't get it, do you?

[2rth2pwr]

1. There is only one black church in Chicago? Unbelievable.

[merwin]

2. I find the notion of a "black church" repulsive and insulting to Christianity.

Just a personal opinion... I don't think Jesus was for segregated churches.

[crankychatter]

4. most churches ARE segregated... no Blacks at all... bet that doesn't bother you eh?

not even a little

his church, Trinity... is an integrated church in a largely african american community... lots of diverse folks.

segregation is "de facto" segregation up north... not the jim crow variety

nevertheless it's still there...

but don't let the facts effect your judgement

you can go back to sleep now

[merwin]

9. My point is that Christian churches who segregate, be it blatantly or otherwise,

are not true Christian churches, and should not be considered as such.

[crankychatter]

11. The United Church of Christ is a mainstream denomination that does not practice segregation

you should really do some reading

maybe go on up to Trinity... see if they throw you out.

[izzie]

16. You are right.

It seems Wright is using it to get to some where else. Right now any how. We seem to have got to a point that some people think for them self and others think as their Pastor tells them how to think. It has not one thing to do with how you look out side but your thoughts inside your head. Wright seems to have the ego of Roberson, and Farwell and wants people to follow his thinking only. Sort of nuts for any one in the UCC.

[merwin]

30. So why does he call it the "black church" then?

If they don't practice segregation, then they are simply a church comprised of mostly black people.

[democracy1st]

17. What's a true Christian ?

[merwin]

25. I can sure as hell tell you what ISN'T a true Christian.

And they're running the current administration.

[FrenchieCat]

20. Your ignorance on the subject of Black Church is showing......

You'd be better off doing some research and a bit of reading before typing dumb shit.

Maybe you can start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_church
http://www.sc.edu/uscpress/Fw98/3247.html
http://www.blackandchristian.com/blackchurch/index.shtml

[merwin]

24. You're missing MY point, that the Bible teaches NOT to exclude or segregate.

Yes, it's a reality that there are churches made up of mostly black people. However, the idea of a "black church" is ridiculous, and only helps to further promote segregation, discrimination, and puts forth values that are completely ANTI-Christian.

[NatBurner]

27. u ppl act like history just started yesterday

[merwin]

32. You act like Christianity is something that it's not.

Christianity is something that transcends race, politics, etc. Unfortunately, most brands of Christianity don't practice that.

[Bake]

29. I was a member at Walnut Street Baptist Church in Louisville KY

years ago. A downtown, metropolitan church with a white pastor and a largely integrated congregation. It can be done. Even back then (late 1970s).

Bake

[crankychatter]

5. so whose church would Jesus bomb?

hm?

good "christians" murdered Black children while at choir practice in their black churches... that you think are so unconscionable.

Rev Wright's church was threatened... do you think that if they had been bombed, it would've been justified... ? because "Jesus" doesn't approve of segregated churches? oh, wait, it's only "segregated BLACK churches that your "jesus" doesn't like, eh?

where is that in the bible?

[merwin]

10. My Jesus does not allow access based on race.

I am speaking to both "white" churches as well as "black" churches. Those churches and their members who do evil shit are not Christians. They may call themselves that, but they are fundamentalist assholes who don't deserve to be called Christians.

[crankychatter]

12. I spent a good deal of time investigating fundamentalist churches

They welcome Black people for the most part

The "christians" that bomb churches are assholes for sure

here we agree

[2rth2pwr]

6. Tell that to Rev Wright.

[sandnsea]

14. Well white people segregated them in the first place

You're just a real piece of work, aren't you. Good god they're really crawling out from under the rocks around here.

[merwin]

26. You just don't get what I'm saying.

I'm saying that those white people who segregated them in the first place are NOT Christians. They may call themselves Christians, but they are not. And since segregation has ended, therefore the idea of a "black church" strikes me as odd these days.

The fact that black people would consider themselves members of a black church makes no sense to me, considering the struggle to end segregation.

[stillcool]

31. Does the idea of a ...

'black neighborhood' strike you as odd? Do you expect them to bus white people in to integrate their church? Churches are a big part of the communities they are in. Especially communities that are impoverished neighborhoods.

[merwin]

33. But they are not "black churches".

They're churches in predominantly black neighborhoods.

How would Wright respond if people started calling other churches "white churches"?

[stillcool]

34. What? Of course they are "Black Churches"....

and anything that is not designated a 'black church' is by default a 'white church'. I can't believe I'm reading this stuff. I grew up in a nice little town in NY. We had two black neighborhoods. No designated 'white' neighborhoods. Everything that wasn't black was white. There was one black church that I remember. There were at least 4 other churches..that were not 'white'. They were Methodist, Presbyterian and Catholic.
You want to re-write language, and re-write history.

[merwin]

35. I don't want to rewrite history. I'm just saying that segregation has ended.

Therefore what is the need for a "black church" and a "white church" any longer?

I don't personally consider my church a "white church", and neither do any of the people who attend my church. That is a ridiculous statement.

[stillcool]

36. Of course you don't...

Only 'black churches' are designated by color. I don't know where or when you grew up, but if you have not lived in a town or city that had a black neighborhood I guess you won't understand. I'm not understanding why you are making a big deal out of 'black churches'...especially when you don't seem to be too aware of any.

[crankychatter]

3. k/r good morning, george

you're right

people tend to be incognizant of the injuries suffered by others

and have a hyper-developed sense of the injuries done to them

I think social pathology is an epidemic

racism and white privelege are manifestations of that epidemic

it's worsened by leadership in america that, from the top down, justifies injustice... IS sociopathic... it emboldens people with anti-social tendencies down here... at the street level... the net level.

from foreign policy, to domestic and economic issues... they have multi-million dollar think tanks, DEDICATED to justifying doing harm... pumping out reams of after the fact rationales for our collective avarice.

The bottom line is always the same... long story. long story... blah blah blah... and NOW, it's ok to hate the poor and bomb other nations...

ta dum

[loyalsister]

7. Excellent post

Too few white people are aware of white privilege, and worse, too few people are willing to examine the possibility and actual influences of white privilege.
Much of it has to do with not being questioned.

[ShortnFiery]

8. How many of us do NOT have at least one close relative or friend who is overtly prejudice!?

But that's NOT the whole person. I'm ashamed of many of my extended family for their negative stereotypes about the Sioux Indians (SD). You see, back where I was raised - the plains of middle America - the disenfranchised class was that of The American Indian. Yet, I do not disown my cousins, nor my former classmates. Why? Because people are MORE THAN their prejudices. Just perhaps, over time, they will change? If they don't does that make their other traits LESS appealing?!?

People are complex. Politicians who throw anyone who doesn't ALWAYS score them political points are not the people I want representing me.

[moondust]

13. You read my mind.

I was thinking about the white privilege thing tonight as well. I'm wondering if these cable news people specifically were largely children who grew up in white privilege and all their lives they've had the luxury of picking and choosing whomever they wanted to associate with and casually tossing everybody else out like so many used Kleenex. They don't seem to understand why somebody in Obama's position would even hesitate to throw Wright or anybody else that might create a problem for their precious careers directly under the bus and forget about them.

[sandnsea]

15. They don't even care, it's all political posturing

All they care about is winning, whether they're for Clinton or McCain. They don't care what they have to say or who they have to destroy to get there. Did most white people even know who Rev Wright was before this all came up? I don't think I did.

[Doityourself]

18. "White Privilege?" For many white people it doesn't exist, may as well be a mixed drink! n/t

[SparkyMac]

19. A man who made $4.5 last year is not privileged ?

[2rth2pwr]

22. If he made 5 bucks, he would be considered priveleged.

[crankychatter]

21. Most white americans have NEVER experienced abject poverty

never experienced daily discrimination and contempt...

I am the youngest of six... I remember chopping cotton

I remember pumping gas... swamping peaches... sacking feed... lumping trucks... digging ditches... shovelling shit... pouring concrete... punching out parts, risking my digits on antique machines...

I've lived in shelters... in the heart of the slums... out on the street... stood in line for government cheese...

I've had Social Service types sneer at me across their desks...and make me feel less than human for being in need... only to make me jump through hoops... eat 12 pounds of humble pie... and then find some catch 22 to send me packing empty handed... just for fun...

I've heard what's said on the White side of the conversation when Middle Class whites are bemoaning the state of the nation... and there are no black people within earshot...

Even, with all I've done and been through (and that ain't even a taste of it)... I have NEVER KNOWN A DAY OF ABJECT POVERTY....

Because I can clean up my act and get a job... for ONE reason only, because I'M WHITE... (as far as I know... hee hee).

People poo pooing this thread are the REASON this thread needs to be here...

utterly, irredeemably, incognizant of the suffering of other people... except for some imaginary, abstract, Nixonian demographic...

"The deserving poor..."

That's right... YA'ALL BELIEVE POVERTY IS A MORAL ISSUE... and the more liberal you demand that you are... the more probable it is that it's true...

That's what makes you Republicans.

[Lady-Damai]

23. Some white ppl will never get it.....let's HOPE for a better future. n/t

[IndianaJones]

28. which statements did Obama find appalling? nt.