The handwriting is already on the wall...If Obama ends up

[cboy4]

being the nominee, but loses to McCain in the GE, it will all be Hillary's fault, and her supporters' fault, and even independent DUers like myself's fault for not advocating the surrender of the nomination on a silver platter like all of the Obama fans demand.

Since I love Democracy, I think it's great that everyone in all the states get to participate and vote.

However, some people say that could cost Obama the White House.

It's time to quit blaming other Democrats and accusing them of destroying the party, and just get on with counting the votes.

But mark my words...if Obama loses in the GE, and you haven't been an Obama fan, oh my Lord, you will be blamed. In fact, you will be crucified.

Watch.

[mattclearing]

1. It's a good thing Obama is going to win the GE. That way, the Hill supporters will be off the hook.

:D

[cboy4]

2. Otherwise it's all their fault.

Right tasteblind?

[mattclearing]

3. Not at all.

Hillary's supporters are pretty inconsequential.

[cboy4]

6. Oh, that's a friendly answer tasteblind.

Hold on while I gather my thoughts.

You caught me off guard by providing the correct answer right away minus any snark.

Well done. :thumbsup:


on edit: to add :sarcasm:

(I thought it wasn't needed, but apparently it is).

[mattclearing]

12. Had you going, didn't I?

You asked for it with your snarky follow-up though. :)

[shaniqua6392]

10. Half of the Democratic Party is inconsequential???

That, in itself, will be what ruins Obama. His supporters just can not acknowledge that half of the Democratic Party has voted for Clinton. Look at the numbers. You are denying half of the party and that is a dangerous thing. You act like she has 12 votes and he has millions!! It is split down the middle and no one is coming out the clear winner. I don't care which one wins, but I think this is an ego-maniacal mistake that Obama supporters think he has enough votes to seal the nomination. We are going to have to do something about the Clinton supporters other than disregard them or they will leave the party. Obama needs these voters to win in the General Election. The Primaries are only a battle. The GE is the war and you will need them. Mark my words.

[mattclearing]

13. It was a joke.

Y'all will come around after Hillary endorses Obama. We'll be laughing about this in a few short months.

[pecwae]

21. That's how it's been here for some time

Any non-Obama supporter is deemed irrelevant, useless, nonentities. Guess our vote isn't wanted in the GE if Obama is the nominee.

[shaniqua6392]

24. They ignore Clinton supporters at their own peril.

Judging by the comments here on DU, you may be right that they think they will not need those votes in the GE. He CAN NOT win without them. So everyone had better figure out a way to unify the party, although it may be too late. Clinton supporters have been told they are blue collar, uneducated, and poor. I know many who resent that categorization. I know many who are college educated and really resent that label. There are many ordinary voters out there, who do not live and breath politics like those on DU, who will vote for McCain if she is not on the ticket. They not only ignore her supporters, they criticize, belittle and call them ignorant, stupid, etc. Big mistake. Obama is going to have to beg for their forgiveness.

[Yurovsky]

79. Well one thing's for sure ....

your prediction ...

"Obama is going to have to beg for their forgiveness"

will certainly go along way of curing the man of his "uppity-ness". Way to keep the most loyal demorgraphic bloc of Democrats in their place!!!

Signed,
Step'n Fetchit

[Leopolds Ghost]

83. Black people have been told they are blue collar, uneducated and poor for decades. Get over it.

Prove to us that blue collar, uneducated and poor does NOT have
any relation to xenophobia and class warfare towards people who
are poorer than your friends and relatives.

The poor people I know are educated enough about LIFE to know
that Hillary's Horatio Alger schtick is a load of crap.

[Yossariant]

4. Natch. There's a thread blaming the Clintons for Gore's loss.

The Democrats appear to be incapable of leading.

Like Kucinich (right message, wrong guy) they have more excuses for losing than they have ways of winning.

[cboy4]

7. Your point is very well taken indeed.

Thanks for your response.

[mattclearing]

14. Your excuses comment reminds me of Hillary.

Caucuses don't count. Red states don't count. What, I lost a state yesterday? You wouldn't know it from my lack of a concession speech or congratulatory remarks.

[whirlygigspin]

5. worse than that...

If Obama loses the nomination to Hillary, his black support might go to Cynthia McKinney (don't laugh--a similar thing happened before, think Nader) but on a much larger scale.

If Hillary losses, her support might go to McCain
(while Hillary's support seems to be coming from traditional republican rural area voters who would seem likely to gravitate to McCain)

interesting times indeed

[cboy4]

9. Oh my.

:wow:

[casus belli]

8. It will be ALL OF OUR faults

It's something that we can't let happen. Period. If our nominee loses, we all lose. And by we, I mean every single human being occupying the planet.

[Skwmom]

11. The Clintons and the Superdelegates will be to blame.

While the math proves that Clinton CANNOT win the superdelegates sit quietly on the sidelines letting the Clintons destroy the party once again.

[Bake]

66. I posted this thought elsewhere, but the supers could end it TODAY.

But they don't, because they're spineless wimps. They're hedging their bets to make sure they back the winner, to make sure Obama doesn't implode and take them with him.

They could end this today. They could have ended this weeks ago. But they won't. Spineless bastards. If they really believe, as Bill Richardson does, that Hillary (a) has no chance and (b) is destroying the party, they should come out and end it today.

Bake

[TheDebbieDee]

80. I agree with you on many points, but I also think that the SDs

want to give as many Democrats as possible the chance to vote in the primaries and have their voices heard!

[bain_sidhe]

87. Yeah, but if they did that, Indiana and NC people

would be severely *pissed*

I know it seems like forever, but we're really only about a month out from the end of the primaries, and just *think* of all the on-the-ground, GOTV operations being built in EVERY STATE. That will benefit us in the general, as will the over-all excitement & participation of Democrats in these traditionally late primary states (because, hey, their vote actually MATTERS for once!).

I say, let's finish the calendar out, THEN hear from the SDs. Although, I'd add, we have to stop eating our own, both in the campaigns and in here.

**fixed my wrong state boo-boo**

[quickesst]

15. You didn't go far enough.......

even if Obama wins the GE, his supporters will still make life miserable for Clinton and any who support her. Sure they will blame Clinton and her following for a loss, but a win will bring a different kind of misery. They will not be able to keep from gloating, as people who genuinely believe they are a cut above the rest of us are wont to do. Don't forget either, that if Obama goes against McShame, O's supporters will woo Clinton votes in order to garner that win, welcome you back into the fold, so to speak, but rest assured, the hatred and disdain so colorfully expressed for HRC's supporters will remain, maybe hidden until "gloating time". You don't turn this kind of hatred off, and once having had a taste of the egoist pie, cannot help but consume the entire thing. Thanks.
quickesst

[cboy4]

17. What a gloomy forecast quickesst.

Tragically, I don't disagree.

[Tactical Progressive]

19. Oh yeah.

Obama supporters are about as intellectually craven and ethically depraved as human beings get.

Even Publicans come across as merely misguided people comapared to this group of raving haters.

[earthlover]

23. I disagree with your gloomy forcast. Why do you think Hillary supporters are not Democrats

who would vote against McCain? I would like to think they are smarter than that. Maybe you don't.

I would have thought that Hillary supporters would not want a pro-life supreme court. Or to spell it out for you, an anti-choice supreme court. Justices that serve a life time.

Well, if that is the case, thanks Hillary supporters for the memories of choice

[BeyondGeography]

16. Totally unfair...Hillary has run an above-board, high-minded campaign

and done nothing to undermine Obama's credentials and elevate John McCain. :patriot:

[madrchsod]

38. agreed!

[MrSlayer]

18. Well it will be the fault of idiots voting against their own benefit.

As usual. The sheeple fall for the same stupid tricks over and over.

[Tactical Progressive]

20. Too bad, I already blame them for destroying the Democratic Party

They've deserved that blame since 2000, when their Democrat-Hating-Leftist bile
backstabbed the party and gave us nearly a decade of hard-right rule.

The people who hate Hillary hated Al Gore "the Corporate Whore".
The "not a dime's worth of difference" "Republicrat" "DINO".
They spilt every single drop of blood and treasure in Iraq,
and want to blame the results of their backstabbing on the DLC.

They are to blame for everything that has gone wrong and will go wrong
when Democrats peel off by the millions, maybe tens of millions,
from their raving hate-driven Obama cult, to vote for McCain.

[Perry Logan]

22. Progressives spend all their time attacking fellow Democrats, leaving the Republicans unscathed.

[Tactical Progressive]

27. Yes, they are pathological about it

[shayes51]

25. I hope it won't get to the GE with Obama as the nominee.

But if it does, and he loses, I think your prediction will come true. Many of Obama's supporters (at least here on DU) view him as a god and are unable to criticize him in any way. Thus, a loss could not possibly be his fault.

[onenote]

26. and if HRC gets the nomination and loses, do you think no blame will be put on Obama's supporters?

Seriously. Do you think that?

[Tactical Progressive]

28. I already put the blame on Obama's supporters

He had no business being in this race as anything more than a Primary Candidacy introduction to the American electorate, preparing himself for ALOT more experience.

Instead his ego and his arrogance, combined with his and his campaign's predilection for smearing and race-baiting, have nearly destroyed the Democratic Party at a time when we would have been all together.

Obama could have had it all, if only he hadn't wanted Hillary's too.

[onenote]

29. You left out one thing: not such a little thing either

The fact that he has defeated HRC in more contests than she has defeated him.

And since Obama's supporters make up half of the electorate that's voted in the campaign, what makes the other half that's supported HRC so morally or otherwise superior?

[dionysus]

61. are you out of your goddamned mind?

that a rhetorical question, btw...

:eyes:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

64. Yet he has more legislative experience than Hillary.

:freak:

[Gore1FL]

85. The nerve of him

having people vote for him...

[cboy4]

31. Of course some will, but not the type of numbers I'm talking

about regarding my scenario.

If Hillary gets the nomination, it would be a stunning come back, and I think most of her supporters would obviously be disappointed if she lost, but would be proud she came from so far back.

I don't think they'd be out seeking revenge like quite a lot of Obama supporters who demand he get the nomination before all of the votes are counted.

[Bake]

67. We've already been told in absolute terms that the AA vote will stay home.

And no Democrat can win without them.

I think we're fucked either way.

Bake

[greguganus]

30. I won't blame another democrat. I'll blame Hillary. n/t

[cboy4]

32. Thank you for making my point. Well done.

Not.

[greguganus]

52. You're welcome! nt

[PassingFair]

33. Get over yourself.

No one is going to crucify you.

Your words do NOT martyr that much....

[cboy4]

34. Look at how angry you are already,

:scared:

[PassingFair]

45. I see the problem....you mistake simple dismissiveness

for anger!

Correct smilie>> :eyes:

[cboy4]

50. No, there's been no mistake.

PassingFair>>

[PassingFair]

54. Have fun on your imaginary cross!

:hi:

[JasonHill]

35. If you loved Democracy

you would try to promote it's expression through having it's principles bolstered by having a Dem President more susceptible to a base that would apply pressure for it's greater impact in future elections. Since Hillary is devoid of principle and only cares about the political viability of her chance at gaining more power, Politically what she has done because by not doing the right thing for the party and rallying around a candidate who had a virtually insurmountable lead, has been to muddy up the nominee.

By helping to continue to solidify right-wing talking points that Dems are pansies and latte drinking liberals who have as a leading candidate someone out of touch with the working man and has only as his experience a speech while McCain has many, many years making him more qualified, all she had done has been to hurt Dems. She decided instead of running on her record she needed to destroy the leading candidate through right-wing smears. Personally, after this is done, i'd hope liberals attack her in NY if she decides to run again, but if not to focus on marginalizing the DLC as a way of setting a culture within the party of reducing her gutter mentality in the future.

[madrchsod]

36. it won`t be clinton`s fault it will be those who voted for barack

we will nail the obama supporters to the crosses....you have a hammer? i have the nails

[TragedyandHope]

37. I simply cannot imagine a world

where if the candidates positions were reversed and Hillary had the numbers that Obama now has that he would still be in the race. In such a case, Hillary would certainly already be the nominee by now. The only reason she continues to get away with her scorched earth campaign is that she is milking every last drop of her Clinton name and First Lady legacy. Neither Obama nor any other of the other of the slate of candidates from this year could get away with what she's doing if they were in her position today.

Hillary's lingering sense of entitlement has led her to go far beyond what any other Democrat who puts their country and their party above themselves would ever do.

Many party leaders obviously feel the same way, but they don't want to push too hard for fear of getting caught in a Clinton trap of being seen as not letting the people vote (even though the race is over for all intents and purposes). So, they go along with the charade and our campaign against McCain starts a month or two later.

[madrchsod]

41. hillary will win the nomination without the supers

i think you underestimate the ungodly amount of damage the rev wright has done to barack...i do not know how barack can go out and face the world knowing that rev wright has driven a stake through his heart...

it`s so sad..a man who had the world but gave it away by his deceptions

[TragedyandHope]

57. I'm sorry, but people who imagine

that Hillary deserves to lead this country because of Wright are deluding themselves.

[madrchsod]

60. delusions are all they have left....

[Smith_3]

39. Like Bush was Nader's fault?

:eyes:

[Dr. Strange]

77. That's what came to my mind too.

[Vinca]

40. Once the masses hear John McCain's wonderful ideas, I don't

see how he can win. Just telling them their employers will no longer be providing health insurance ought to do it. Wake up, Bubba. You gotta get in the $12,000 a year line behind me. Throw in McCain not backing the new G.I. Bill, too. And another of my favorites, standing in front of a boarded up steel plant telling the crowd our trade policies are good for America.

[madrchsod]

43. john is a white male going against a white female

it`s going to be close but i think the mommy factor will win it for hillary. i know when i was lonely or sad my mom was always there to say nice things to cheer me up...i know hillary can do the same for our country

[Vinca]

48. Hillary won't be the nominee, but you won't believe it until you see it.

Obama is ahead by every measure and the SDs, reportedly, are now in his corner, too.

[JasonHill]

49. Do more people dislike their mom than like her?

or do they believe, by large majority, that their own mom couldn't be trusted to save their own life? Despite your desire to say that the Dems need to run a white instead of a black, the black guy is still liked by more people despite the white woman and is viewed more trustworthy, making his image more moldable for the general than one of the standard-bearers of the failure of creating a liberal majority let alone one of the catalysts in ushering in both a republican congressional revolution and helping to initiate the Iraq debacle.

edit: clarity

[jpak]

42. Once Hillary is out off the race, Obama will wipe the floor with McCain

People have had enough of GOP dissembling - they've had it with them...

[madrchsod]

44. an angry black man hurting a senior citizen war hero

really you think the american people will stand for that? dream on

[jpak]

56. You mean that Keeting 5 Katrina B-day Boy Bomb Bomb Iran 100 years in Iraq war veteran???

:rofl:

[madrchsod]

59. i keep having these bad dreams......

i`m awake now

[jasmine621]

47. Assuming McCain is the GOP nominee after their convention.. nt

[cloudythescribbler]

46. Doubtful that people will much remember HRC in Nov, but to the extent that she DOES get blamed ...

her "kitchen sink" strategy surely invites that. Hillary Clinton has shocked and dismayed many HRC partisans in this election with her negative approach. I don't blame her so much for staying in the race as for her scorched earth approach in doing so.

I am also of the view that this stuff is peaking right about now, and will have significantly faded when voters go to the polls in NC and IN. But it will still be too soon for it to have ENTIRELY faded by that time.

By the time November rolls around, the GOP will have slung so much at Obama (w/McCain dutifully and adroitly covering his ass with reference thereto), and the media (as in Matt Bai eg) will have so done a job on him that HRC will be just one of the pack of hounds.

That said, I'd STILL give Obama the edge in November! From where he started, he had a MUCH more formidable fight to get the nomination than to triumph over McCain. Even so, I'm not confident enough to say we needn't work HARD this year, so as not to end up as a nation stuck in Iraq like Ahab lashed to Moby Dick.
(and the turncoat seasonal-hawk Democrats blaming the Left somehow).

[Tactical Progressive]

78. 'kitchen sink' 'scorched earth'": pointing out Obama's inexperience

Obama hates that. It's not fair.

[cloudythescribbler]

91. No, we hear about whether he "rejects" Farrakhan rather than merely condemning, and ...

about his pastor, and about how his appeal is to 'latte-sipping' Democrats (while HRC represents the salt of the earth), and about some remark about "bitterness" etc. Experience (rather a weak suit for BOTH HRC and Obama) is not itself the scorched earth stuff.
But most of what we hear about IS.

[Bucky]

51. Point of rhetoric: if you have to use the word "if", then the handwriting isn't on the wall yet

[cboy4]

53. You're correct.

I blame Hillary!!11

[The Doctor.]

55. This is ridiculous.

That is all.

[JohnnyLib2]

58. Sadly, I think you are right.

And that makes it even more critical that he not lose.

[GoldieAZ49]

62. screw the whiny ass they can blame their cult leader and his side kick

as well as themselves for sucking up all the koolaid

[Dawgs]

63. Hillary is a Democrat?

And yes, she should be blamed. She, Bill, and especially you, have been an embarrassment to our party.

[cboy4]

65. Oh I agree. The power I possess is frightening indeed.

LOL

[Texas Hill Country]

68. as unfair as it is, i agree.

[shadowknows69]

69. Yeah, pretty much

[redqueen]

70. Man, y'all have got that victim act down PAT.

Bravo.

[Forkboy]

75. I've honestly never seen anything like this since I've been into politics.

Obviously, there's always some who act this way in any election, but there's a large chunk of Hillary supporters who act like the biggest victims I've ever seen in politics, outside of the Republican party, where nothing is ever their own fault.

[redqueen]

76. Oh GOD... you had to point out the similarity...

UGH... the whiney GOP as victim act... oh puke!

[cboy4]

88. Yea, and Obama fans are angels, ha redqueen

LOL!

[JuniperLea]

71. My stomach hurts... you are right...

The writing is on the wall... I see the posturing.

[Neshanic]

72. Oh you are so correct. This is the way it will play out. A Mikado little list of

transgressors that kept "Him" from the WH.

The list will be long.

[IndianaJones]

73. Hope and change...whether you like it or not. nt.

[Forkboy]

74. And the reverse is also true. But you'll have to admit, it's a step up from blaming gays and unions.

Like some people did in '04 when Kerry lost.

[Neshanic]

90. Oh the gays will be on the little list. Trust them when Obama loses.

[oasis]

81. Obama's ambition-on-steroids compelled him to run for the presidency in the first place.

He knew there were candidates far more qualified than him, but he chose to leapfrog over them based on a speech he made and "I didn't vote for the war".

A one trick pony.

[Leopolds Ghost]

82. Well it's a good thing you're an independent DUer then, and not a rabid Hillary partisan.

[Neecy]

84. hmmmmm

I see the Hillbots are already setting the stage for their own martyrdom...it's not our fault he lost!...so Hillary would be a viable candidate in '12 after her kitchen sink strategy and general sense of entitlement destroys our chances this November.

If there's a big Dem vote that shows up in McCain's exit polling you can be certain that Hillary supporters won't escape the blame for 4 more years of pure hell. Mark MY words.

[Radical Activist]

86. Obama should get the same courtesy Bill Clinton got in '92.

along with Gore, Kerry and Dukakis. Other candidates dropped out when it was clear they were going to lose to help the nominee win in November. Why should there be a new and different standard for Obama?

[Dr Fate]

89. So long as Hill's supporters dont pull another Lieberman, there wont be an issue.

The DEM will win.

[cottonseed]

92. If HRC works to undermine Obama's campaign (which she will)

of course she's going to be blamed for blowing it for the Democrats. It's pretty obvious what's going on to any neutral observer.