So the gas tax holiday is a gimmick? Temporary relief..., political ploy?

[jasmine621]

Well it is an action and not talk. And Hillary has proposed a way to make up for the lost revenues by taking it out of a windfall tax profit tax on the kazillion dollars of profit that the oil companies are raking in. Since when is no relief better than temporary relief? We don't have a cure for the common cold but we all take over the counter shit for temporary relief. That twenty or thirty dollars may not be much to many here, but it means something to those less fortunate than ourselves. And i thought all you progressives hated taxes anyway? It would be absurd to say that Hillary does not recognize that such a tax holiday is not a long-term or even a short-term "solution" to the gasoline crisis. She fully recognizes that it is "temporary relief" and not a cure and that is much more than the elitest Obama recognizes. We weould all take a 20-cent reduction in gasoline prices right now so whether it comes from the fed tax or the general price, give it to us and anyone who doesn't want it should continue to pay the full price.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. Right. What are the odds that tax on windfall profits is going to pass?

And even if it does pass, what's to keep the oil companies from just raising their prices to compensate?

[jasmine621]

12. Good if you all here would put as much effort into pushing for it with

your Congressmen and women as you do slamming Hillary. Anybody else have any ideas for temporary relief? Hell the tax rebates are only a temporary relief that will take revenue for the fed coffers, why aren't you slamming those who supported it? I'll tell you why. Because it was not something Obama was against. Had he been against this, you would have slammed Hillary for being for it too.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

16. lol, most here on DU **WERE** against the "stimulus" package.

And I do question Obama's support of it. Obama wasn't my first choice.

Also, the Dem majority is too slim to get this through congress.

[dbmk]

37. Except the two things are wildly different

Tax rebates have an extremely wider stimulus to the economy as it will be spend on a broader spectrum of goods. And it is usually done in a progressive fashion, to allevieate the needs of those most in need.

In a market like the oil/gas market, supply and demand rules almost supreme. If the government removes its cut, the price will fast move up to the old level - completely negating the tax break and the end result will be that the tax payers, one way ot the other, is short 18 cents pr gallon and still paying the same for gas.

We have a saying here that goes something like this: "Its like pissing in your pants to keep warm".

[book_worm]

2. In the early 70's Nixon imposed wage/price freeze and when it was taken off

the immediate reaction was huge price and wage hikes (to make up) and helped lead to the devastating recession of 73-75. Quick fixes sound attractive, but rarely work.

[quantass]

38. .

[John Q. Citizen]

3. She stole it from McCain. It's a scam. It will just drive up the wholesale/retail cost

It's a bad idea, being used to try to bribe voters.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. "And I thought all you progressives hated taxes anyway"

Really? I thought it was conservatives that hate taxes. I feel my taxes are the price I pay to live in this country and have safe roads etc.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. She can't even keep her generalizations straight, can she? nt

[cliffordu]

5. It's a non starter. a band aid on a bullet wound

Specious, bogus, stop gap,

PANDER BEAR kind of wallet stroking PLOY that Bush has driven our country into the ground.

We will have to stop using so much gasoline. PERIOD.

[Mooney]

6. "And i thought all you progressives hated taxes anyway?"

No, no, we're the "tax and spend" people. It's the Republicans who hate taxes, and it's their politicians who lie to you and tell you that we can get around paying taxes with no ill effect to the economy.

Here's a tip: If a politician is trying to sell you a "tax holiday," that person is a Republican.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

9. That's the line that jumped out at me too!

Well that and the bit about those of us that are against it should pay the tax and give the money to those who are for it. By that logic, shouldn't those who are for it not be able to use our roads?

[Mooney]

11. I also noticed the misspelling of the word "elitist."

It's almost like the OP just learned that word two weeks ago.

Or something.

[ClassWarrior]

7. It's "vote for me and get a free half a tank of gas."

Why doesn't she give out trading stamps too?

NGU.

[tokenlib]

8. It is a total political ploy...

The relief is short term, the money comes from infrastructure funds, and as Lawrence O'Donnell pointed out yesterday her windfall tax has no chance of coming to life to pay for it.

It is a cynical short term carrot being tossed to the masses.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. Do you even know what Obama's position is regarding this?

[tammywammy]

13. Political ploy

[sandnsea]

14. There's no guarantee the cut would get to us

The prices would just keep going up, and the oil companies would just have one less tax to pay. The windfall profit tax is supposed to go to R&C for NEW ENERGY. It's just another phony Clinton lie.

[babylonsister]

15. She's pandering, pure and simple, and you fell for it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x129999

[ClassWarrior]

17. If it's a simple across-the-board cut, the big winners will be the trucking companies...

Ordinary folks like you and I will save all of enough to buy a half tank of gas, but the trucking companies will make out like bandits.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

19. What's more, it will actually promote fossil fuel consumption.

Just what we need while fighting a global climate crisis, right?

:eyes:

NGU.

[tammywammy]

22. Yeah, something should be done to help the truckers

That's a separate event.

[Rubiconski2009]

18. Clinton-McSame pandering.

Give her hell, Barack!

[NeedleCast]

20. Not, It's Not Action

But I'm not surprised that you'd be suckered by it.

It's lip service. It's feel good legislation that has a very short, temporary upside and does not look at the negative impact down the road. It does nothing to address the oil demand crisis that is very real. What good does suspending the gas tax do other than take more money out of the federal coffers when we're already spending in deficit? Hillary says she's going to make up for it with a windfall tax on big oil...uh uh. That's going to pass through the house and senate, when? 2009? 2010?

Just another reason I like Obama. He's not out blowing smoke up my ass with feel-good legislation.

Your cold analogy is apt though. Like the GOP, Hillary's plan does nothing except treat the symptoms, it does not treat the illness.

[cali]

21. bullfuckingshit. It's an old repuke trick with no relief from high prices at

the pump. 18 cents a gallon means that the average consumer who filled their 15 gallon tank once a week would save less than three bucks a week. That's a whole $12 bucks a month. What a fucking cynical joke. Shame on hilly. And if you think that a windfall profits tax will pass Congress within the next 30 days, put down the bong. And sorry, it wouldn't help the guy I talked to yesterday who just got laid off at the mill for a month. He thinks it's a joke too. It wouldn't help most of the people around here and their are a lot of folks hurting in my neck of the woods.

And your saying that you think "you progressives" hate taxes shows you know jackshit about progressives. You sure the fuck aren't one.

And what's to stop big oil from simply jacking up prices to make more of a profit?

Sickening justification of the unjustifiable.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Um, cali, how do you really feel about the OP?

;)

[Zhade]

35. Cali, I'm really coming to admire your take-no-shit analysis.

Kudos!

[cali]

41. ack. this gas tax holiday is such cynical pandering it should be

thoroughly debunked and completely excoriated. But thanks, for the kind words.

:hi:

[JTFrog]

23. Fuck the Infrastructure! I'm Going Shopping!!!

With this awesome plan I can get that pack of chewing gum I've always wanted! :woohoo:




"If some economists and business leaders are to be believed, the
terrorists will have won if Americans don’t go shopping." - George Bush

"We need to respond quickly so people regain confidence and consider
it their patriotic duty to go shopping, go to a restaurant, take a
cruise, travel with their family… " - Jeb Bush

[graycem]

28. LOL!

I hadn't thought about that... I'm saving up for popsicles. :party:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. Her proposal would have to get through Congress.

And the likelihood of Dumya signing anything with a windfall profits tax on oil is virtually nil.

So I'm going to go with "political ploy".

[graycem]

25. Then why are ALL economists

saying it's a horrible idea? They all just don't like Clinton and McCain? It's stupid, and ineffective, and those taxes go to our highway infrastructure which is bad ENOUGH as it is (remember the collapsing bridges? They found that many of them were in such bad shape, they just suspended inspections). $30 over the course of 3 months really going to help any individual? NO, because they'll just raise the stupid price at the pump again. Pandering is pandering.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Even noted Clinton shill Paul Krugman thinks it's a dumb idea. nt

[EFerrari]

30. Why would progressives hate taxes? How else do you fund

social programs?

And, have you found an economist that thinks this is a good idea?

[redqueen]

31. Sorry but even Krugman doesn't have her back on this lame BS!

:rofl:

Find a few economists who agree, then maybe someone will listen.

[TheCowsCameHome]

32. It's called Buy-A-Vote in simple terms

[marlakay]

33. I heard that the congress which would not meet till

late in the year would have to approve the money going back into the transportation fund and meanwhile states lose like $60 million over the summer needed to fund transportation projects. Then people will lose jobs.

I personally am willing to pay a extra $25 this summer for that not to happen to the U.S.

Do you trust our congress to put the money back? Bush could video anything they pass and would need 2/3 then to pass...

she is all talk pandering to get votes.

[dana_b]

34. a Newsweek economist was on AA radio today

and actually called the idea "stupid". As others mentioned, the wholesale price will go up and there will be even less $$ for our infrastructure, which is in big trouble.

[dbmk]

36. Yeah, its temporary

If by temporary you mean that short amount of time it will take from it being in effect to having supply/demand rules and greedy oil companies to go "Thats nice 18 cents. We'll take it.". If you honestly think that the consumers will see a noticable degree of that cut, you have little clue about the economics of this. Which is basically also what every economist is saying to Clinton and McCain atm.

It will essentially take 18 cents from tax payers pockets and pour it into the oil companies pockets.

[RichardRay]

39. How 'temporary' are you willing to take?

About two weeks, maybe three, possibly as long as 4? That's about all the longer it will take for prices to go right back up to where they are now. Then the oil companies will make even bigger profits, then, somehow, we'll get them to give the money up in the form of a windfall profits tax (that's been so easy to accomplish in the past) and then we can be confident that the proceeds from that tax will go directly to infrastructur maintenance?

The only way to hold the price at the reduced level is price controls. If you do that, we end up with the gas lines, odd-even rationing and fights at the pump like we had in the early 70's. Is that better?

[pdxmom]

40. There is absolutely nothing to stop the oil companies from adding

that same 18 cents back into the price of oil, saying that the demand has been driven higher. Then, at the end of the "holiday", we'll be paying an additional 18 cents more than we were before, with every penny of that money going into the pockets of the oil companies.

You do realize that the experts say that this is a horrible idea and won't work, correct? This means absolutely nothing. It isn't anything that she can get into place prior to the summer months, and she definitely can't get the windfall profits tax through Congress in time. She knows it. I know it. Anyone with half a brain knows it. This is an "idea" that she knows has no chance of coming to fruition, so it won't hurt her a bit to push it. Pure pandering.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

42. Hill copied McLame. Tell me more about how wonderful an idea it is.

[onenote]

43. has Hillary drafted a bill to do this?

Congress is in session. THis is a proposal for now, not when she's president. So why hasn't she dropped in a bill to do this? Let's see the actual details? Or is this all talk?

[thevoiceofreason]

44. A WPT? This summer? What kind of bullshit is that?

Can you say 100% veto?

[Jersey Devil]

45. Sorry, but you wore me out

*plonk*