If you really want Obama to win against McCain, just a few hints.

[Neshanic]

First, he needs to get pissed, and I don't mean measured, new way, above it all, passive acting and too cool for school. He's starting to look like Kerry, and the Republican ads have not even started. Get Michelle to someone to help her come across better than more pissed off than her husband.

Try that for starters, then we may have a chance against an old guy.

[BklynChick]

1. there's a double standard, though. black man getting angry is not a good image for most of America

[DevonRex]

4. LOL, I just posted that too. But you got in just before me.

You're a preemptive copy cat. :)

[DevonRex]

2. Hey Neshanic. Sometimes I feel that way. But then we'd

undoubtedly have the "angry black man" meme going around about Obama instead of the Rev. Remember the Dean Scream?

[Armstead]

3. Yes and if he does that they'll start saying "he is being too angry. He needs to cool down."

[Avalux]

5. The GE hasn't begun yet. We will see a different Obama up against McCain.

Obama had to remain cool and composed and not attack Hillary lest he be labeled as an angry black man beating up on the older white woman. It would have been over for him. There's also the 'rule' of not playing dirty against another Democrat, which Hillary has ignored.

I expect Obama will go after McCain in ways he would never do with Hillary. That said, I don't expect him to become ANGRY; that would not serve him well. It's going to be fun to watch.

[Neshanic]

9. Really. Well it may be too late by then.

[redqueen]

71. Why would it be too late? (nt)

[Neshanic]

6. He already innoculated himself from that. Wright was that fall guy.

[cali]

7. I'm sorry you know so little about race and politics

There's a strong double standard at play: Obama can NEVER appear to be the "angry black man". Shocking that anyone in this country doesn't understand something so fundamental.

[Neshanic]

10. Angry is one thing. Comatose is another. His wife is gutsier than him, and quite unpleasant.

with some work, some of unpleasantness can be worked on, and he can ramp it up a bit, and still be a universe away from "angry black man."

[cali]

12. Your seeing him as comotose hardly makes that true.

And where you find Michelle "unpleasant" many others view her differently. I'm glad you're not an obama advisor.

[BklynChick]

13. the fact that you're equating her gutsiness with unpleasant, again, shows a lack of understanding of

racial politics. she is blunt, honest, and has shown anger and when she does lots of people don't like her. again, expressing anger for black men (esp) and women too in this country is looked at it a completely different way than when white people express anger.

[Neshanic]

20. I will be more precise.

She comes across as very unpleasant in a personal way, a likeability that she can work on. Her gutsiness would be better taken with not such intense body and facial language that she uses, as she unabashed displays in showing displeasure and annoyance or interrupting the MSM drone.

He when next to her, like on that puff "issues only" piece by KO, comes across wimpy and innefectual, even when she is describing her dislike of her husband going into politics.

They just need some help.

[BklynChick]

24. I think that's the lens through which you see her. I don't see her that way at all; I think she's

wonderful and real... she has a variety of facial expression and voice tone depending on the topic. that's real because we all have that.

[Neshanic]

27. Just trying to be helpfull. I am not the only voter that sees it.

[redqueen]

73. What makes you think so?

I mean I'm sure you're not THE ONLY one... but what makes you think that there are just sooooo many voters that see her the same way you do?

[Neshanic]

75. Well counting my imaginary friend, you can say two people.

[casus belli]

21. Give me real over stepford anyday. n/t

[Neshanic]

23. You will be getting your wish, just wrong party. Hope that works for you.

[casus belli]

36. There isn't anything real about the other party.

And for the record, scare tactics didn't work on me when Bush was selling his war, and they sure as hell won't work on me trying to proclaim Obama the deliverer of a GOP victory if he's nominated.

[Neshanic]

28. The "angry balck man" title has been taken already. Wright. Obama can use this well.

[Occam Bandage]

31. So you propose Obama deliberately echo Wright? Seriously?

[Neshanic]

40. What? Try to stay with me here.

The scary angy black man made his national debute on nation wide television. He's the one.

Obama can now ramp it up A BIT, and not look so robotic.

Simple. Get it yet?

[Occam Bandage]

46. I don't know where you got the idea

that the existence of a "scary angry black man" nullified the argument that anger would not help Obama. Indeed, the existence of Wright means Obama has to be even more measured.

Wright is now closely linked to Obama. Obama is already damaged enough by Wright's image. He cannot afford to echo Wright; he cannot afford to remind people of Wright; he cannot allow people to see Wright in him. The demonization of Wright is proof of Obama's inability to go angry. Your reading of it as some sort of "cover" is misguided.

[Neshanic]

50. OMG. Where to start.

that the existence of a "scary angry black man" nullified the argument that anger would not help Obama. Indeed, the existence of Wright means Obama has to be even more measured.

NO! He broke the tie with him. More people will find a common ground with him as being betrayed, and just saying he will not comment any longer on the issue, and let Wright run around in circles. Wright is his own circus.

He is only linked now, as much as OBAMA WANTS TO BE LINKED.

Obama needs to pick a date internally, and stop all things Wright. Then come back to the issues, and as smarmy as it sounds to us elitist Democrats, Hillary pumping gas as fucking genius! The average person loves that. They also love that she's a fighter. She stood at the machine that dispenses panic attacks and talked about it with a real person. That is what the average person sees.

Obama is Obama. Now you are tranforming Obama into Wright or scared of it? Is he that weak? Only if Obama wants to allow it.

[Occam Bandage]

60. Wishful thinking at its best. Obama broke ties with Wright, as he of course had to.

That doesn't mean that Obama is free of Wright's stink. And that certainly doesn't mean that Obama should start trying to sound like Wright. The demonization of Rev. Wright should be a lesson as to what happens to angry black men in politics; you still haven't explained why the existence of one angry black man who was vilified by the media means that Obama can go angry with no ill effect.

To take this argument to an extreme, what you're saying sounds like this:

A: "I think you should shoot that puppy over there. That would make you very popular."
B: "Shooting puppies doesn't make you popular."
A: "Yeah it does."
B: "Look, Fred shot a puppy. Everyone hates him."
A: "Well, yeah. Now there's already a guy everyone hates for shooting a puppy. That means you can shoot a puppy!"



(The fact that you're gushing over a candidate pumping gas at a photo-op? Just the icing on the cake)

[Neshanic]

63. Well, it's just advice. But again Obama supporters are not known for

taking any advice in any form concerning their guy. Wright episode and all.

[Occam Bandage]

67. We're not opposed to all advice. We're opposed to dumb advice.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

77. *Ding*

Nailed it.

[Hamlette]

34. Unpleasant? Michelle? Not to me.

Obama is being treated unfairly because of his race and she's rightfully and righteously pissed about it.

She's protecting the father of her children.

Like Hillary did Bill.

They were/are both right.

[cliffordu]

72. Obama=== NOT GOOD ENOUGH for you, hmm??

[grantcart]

35. I just find it amusing all of the expert advise going to the guy who has put

together the best run campaign to defeat the toughest field of candidates in the history of the party.

Of course your point is exactly 'on point'. They have positioned him exactly as the thoughtful candidate so that people will not be confused with the "ABM". And they have done it perfectly.

[Neshanic]

41. So to recap. Hilllary polling a bit above, McCain polling above, you call the best run.

Amazing.

[Occam Bandage]

48. Let's recap. He went from being

a two-year Senator with no machine, no money, and no nationwide image outside of one speech he gave in 2004.

He's now the best-financed candidate, with the biggest and deepest volunteer network, and he's doing that while beating the most entrenched, most powerful Democratic name in decades.

What a piker.

[Neshanic]

52. Keep reapeating it, and it will be true maybe for you.

[Occam Bandage]

55. Seriously, Nesh. Look at what the candidates did.

McCain nearly had to fold up his tent twice. He won because Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson all imploded in utter incompetence. For God's sakes, the chucklin' retard Huckabee (with only $2 million in the bank) nearly won their nomination.

Clinton started with the best fundraising network, with the best volunteer network, with the deepest party support, and with a thirty-point polling lead. She's now in second place in every category. To put it in baseball terms, she started every inning with runners on second and third, and Obama is leading her 8-2 going into the ninth.

Obama's campaign has hardly been perfect, but given the failures of his competitors, yeah, I'd say it's the best-run so far.

[lisa58]

8. That's what the VP candidate is for...

...Obama's doing fine.

[Neshanic]

11. That's why he is polling so far ahead of McCain. Silly me.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Obama hasn't turned his sights on McCain yet. Keep in mind he made up a 20-25 pt deficit

against Clinton.

[Occam Bandage]

14. You're right. The black man needs to look angry, emotional, and unintelligent.

Maybe he can do some freestyle rap while drinking a 40 and smoking some crack, while he's at it. You know, as long as we're attempting to destroy his campaign.

[NatBurner]

18. lol ice cube for vp!

1990's "amerikkka's most wanted" ice cube tho-

not the family movie making cream puff we have now

[denem]

16. No No No!

I heard the first salvo in one of Obama's recent rallies - "the judgment and temperament to be President" There's so much to run CALMLY on against McCain. Obama (though not Hillary) can 'Goldwater' McCain.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Certainly. At the moment, we can use McCain's temper against him--make him look

angry, unstable, and petty. Good luck doing that once he turns into Rev. Wright II, as OP proposes.

[Neshanic]

32. There are more examples of Obama being Obama than McCain being an ass on the MSM.

True by all accounts, McCain has a temper, but storise are stories.

Where are they shown on the MSM.

Also again, people like people they percieve getting emotional and being a fighter for them.

Hence Hillary still there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. He wasn't emotional when he severed his ties to Wright?

He wasn't emotional when he gave that splendid speech on race relations last month?

[Neshanic]

44. Yes, yes, yes.....now show that emotion and just an isty bitsy bit of fire on the issues.

[mattclearing]

17. You don't understand. It doesn't matter what Obama does.

He will be criticized. If he gets angry, he will have a temper problem that outweighs McCain's. He's a black man and the likely Democratic nominee for President...it's a double catch-22 for media crucifixion.

[Neshanic]

22. You don't get it either. That's why Hillary supporters want her.

She will show up for a fight.

If he can explain the Wright affair away with two speeches, he can now I assume be capable of explaining his fighting style.

[mattclearing]

25. You don't have to get angry to win a fight.

Look at the gas tax thing. Did he need to furrow his brow and raise his voice? Of course not.

His fighting style is having a solid strategy, a disciplined organization, and executing. It's worked pretty well so far, or have you not seen the scoreboard lately?

[Neshanic]

26. Then Hillary would of been done months ago, and he would not be polling barely above a Sun City

refugee.

But that's just me.

[mattclearing]

29. Hillary had the entire Democratic Party establishment going for her coming into this.

The idea that Obama was just going to put her away is kinda ridiculous. The media has been propping her up to keep the story going for months now.

[Neshanic]

33. So it's the MSM that make Hillary strong. Better tell KO.

[mattclearing]

38. The MSM make the Democrats weak.

If the shoe were on the other foot they'd be pushing Obama. KO has a record of straying from the media line, so he's a bad example.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. You're right - it's just you.

She started with the biggest name since Jesus, and the biggest war chest, and a hundred superdelegates backed her even before the first primary,

and she can't beat a one-term black senator. It's not that she can't shut him down - she is losing in delegates, popular votes, numbers of contests fought.

Why is that?

If Hillary were a rational politician she would have admitted that WAS done months ago.

[Neshanic]

43. I think the point is to get a Democrat in the WH, any Democrat will do.

Hows that going for us now? The worst laundry list of nightmares, and he's a blip above or below Hillary, and McCain will beat him at this clip.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. More fake advice from the Clinton team?

No thank you.

[Neshanic]

37. If I offer advice that makes my vote less objectionable to me when I take one for the team, and I am

a person that truly dislikes his whole gig all the while voting for him as our nom.

You may want to listen up...a little bit even

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. Bullshit.

This "Obama's got to get angry" and "Obama needs to go negative" is all either Clinton or Republican trolls doing their level best to sabatoge Obama's campaign - it's a well known meme and it won't work, so go play somewhere else and let the grownups take care of business.

[Neshanic]

47. Where here did I say go negative? Find it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. You didn't - but you're at least the 5th Hillary supporter to come out

with that meme of "get angry" or "go negative" to "prove he has some balls".

Each worded a little differently, but all reading from the same script.

[Neshanic]

59. Well I did not get the talking points. Mine is just act less robotic and HAL-like.

Get more engaged. Get some more passion. Get more emotional about what AVERAGE people care about.

Get Michelle to dial it back with the body language and pissed off expressions.

[redqueen]

49. You couldn't possibly be more wrong. (nt)

[Neshanic]

51. Well get ready for a Western WH in Sedona.

[redqueen]

54. What makes you think people react positively to someone who acts "pissed"?

Really... what makes you think that?

It goes against everything we've seen.

[Neshanic]

56. I am so sorry, pissed is not in the Obama lexicon. Act REALLY engaged.

[redqueen]

62. Engaged is nowhere near the same as pissed.

:wtf:

What on earth ARE you trying to say here?

[Neshanic]

65. Oh God, you Obama people really don't get it.

[redqueen]

70. Well try explaining what you mean. That might help.

First you say he should act pissed... then you say engaged... they are nowhere near the same.

If you don't want to clarify, that's fine, but don't sit there and petulantly try to pretend it's someone else's fault that you're not being understood.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

53. A Hill fan advising Obama on strategy. Um, no thanks.

Your "advice" is shit.

[Neshanic]

57. But my "shit" vote for him no matter what is OK.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

61. I am referring to your tactics that you advocate. They would be exceeding detrimental.

I don't understand your "shit" vote comment.

[Neshanic]

64. What's not to understand? You said my advice was "shit". But I assume my vote will be accepted.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

66. Oh. So you wrote the OP to whine about having to vote for Obama and want me to coddle you?

That kind of whiny self-serving diatribe is pathetic. I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee even though I don't like her. I, however, do not try to coerce other Democrats into paying homage to me for my "benevolence".

[Neshanic]

69. Now I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

74. A rejoinder fully illustrating your level of tactical and strategic acumen.

[TragedyandHope]

68. Don't worry, Obama has got it covered

That's why he has locked up the nomination and why he will be sitting in the Oval Office next year.

[yodermon]

76. when the general election campaigning heats up

he will paint mccain as the doddering old neocon fool that he is.

He has been pulling his punches in the Primary season because it's unseemly to bash fellow Democrats in the same fashion as he will bash McSame.

Just wait.