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What Obama can't say about Hillary...but can we? From Politico

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nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:35 PM
Original message
What Obama can't say about Hillary...but can we? From Politico
Brand new article in Politico about what Obama is keeping off the table about Hillary.

The highpoints:
1. Webb Hubbell 2. Frank Guistra (Khazakstan) 3. Marc Rich 4. Tony and Hugh Rodham 5. Her Health Care Reform failure 6. The disastrous result the Clintons had on the Democratic Party 7. Bill's Sexual escapades 8. Her legal career and the cases she prosecuted and defended.

Link: http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=A4B83756-3048-5C12-0041E3B83E0D4634

The article in full:
What Obama wishes he could say
By: John F. Harris and Jim VandeHei
May 1, 2008 12:08 PM EST

Thrown off his game by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright uproar, Barack Obama’s strongest answer to Hillary Rodham Clinton is one he won’t give: Senator, do you really want to get in a contest with me over who has more unsavory personal associations?

For all the coverage about the rising heat between Clinton and Obama, this year’s nomination race still is a mild affair by historical standards — restrained by a powerful sense on both sides that there are lots of things they could say but shouldn’t.

There is one theme, however, that runs through not-for-attribution conversations with both sides: Each candidate thinks the other has unmitigated gall.

The Clintons, to hear associates tell it, are more contemptuous than they ever acknowledge publicly about what they believe is Obama’s breathtaking arrogance — the way he blithely dismisses the ideological showdowns and policy achievements of the 1990s as “old politics,” the way he thinks his thin résumé leaves him qualified to lead the country. Lately, the contempt level on the Obama side toward his rivals likewise has been soaring.

More precisely, things that many people around the candidate have always believed about the Clintons — about their trail of controversies, about their style of politics — have in recent weeks seemed much more relevant. That’s made the temptation to say them in a more public fashion more powerful.

A couple weeks ago, we wrote a column about what Clinton would say if she said what she really thought.

Fairness dictates that we take a crack at the other side of the question: What arguments has Obama taken off the table, even though he thinks they are true?

Like the earlier column, sourcing on this one must stay pretty opaque. And like the earlier column, this one is intended as a reflection, not a validation, of the views expressed in a collection of not-for-attribution conversations with political associates about the behind-the-scenes thinking of the Obama camp.

The one line from the what-Clinton-thinks column that most agitated Obama supporters was our assertion that Clinton, for better or worse, was a known commodity. Her “baggage” has already been “rummaged through.”


All manner of Clinton controversies, Obama partisans argue, have not been fully ventilated.

This includes old issues, like Hillary Clinton’s legal career, which includes lots of cases that never got much public attention even during the Whitewater era.

It also includes new ones, like recent stories raising questions about the web of personal and financial associations around Bill Clinton. Since leaving the presidency, he has traveled the globe to exotic places and with sometimes exotic characters, raising money for projects such as his foundation and presidential library and making himself a very wealthy man.

Which gets us back to gall. In the fantasies of some of his high-level supporters, Obama would peel off the tape to say something like this:

You want to talk hypocrisy? How about piously criticizing me for Jeremiah Wright when you have a trail of associations that includes golden oldies like Webb Hubbell? (‘90s flashback: He was one of Hillary Clinton’s legal partners and closest friends, whom she installed in a top Justice Department job before prosecutors sent him to prison.) It also includes modern hits like Frank Giustra. (In case you missed it: There was a January New York Times story, which did not get the attention the reporting deserved, highlighting how this Canadian tycoon and major Bill Clinton benefactor was using his ties to the ex-president to win business with a ruthless dictatorship in Khazakstan.)


Obama has never pressed Clinton to talk about Marc Rich, even though the former fugitive financier who won a controversial pardon from Bill Clinton gave money to her first Senate campaign.

He has never mentioned her brothers, even though Hugh and Tony Rodham once defied Bill Clinton’s own top foreign policy advisers by entering into a strange investment in hazelnuts in the former Soviet republic of Georgia (they later dropped the deal) and Hugh Rodham took large cash payments for trying to broker presidential pardons.

Obama is likewise galled to be lectured by Clinton for not being sufficiently committed to universal health coverage. Why is it, his team asks, that Democrats have done so little to advance a long-time progressive goal for the past 15 years? The answer has everything to do with Hillary Clinton’s misjudgments when she was leading the reform effort in 1993 and 1994.

Most irritating of all to Obama partisans is what they see as her latest pose: that she is selflessly staying in the race despite the long odds against her because of devotion to the Democratic Party and the belief that she is a more appealing general election candidate.

It is an article of faith among most people around Obama that the Clintons were a disaster for the party throughout the 1990s. When Bill Clinton came to town in 1993, Democrats were a congressional majority, with 258 seats in the House. When he left in 2001, they were a minority with 46 fewer seats. There were 30 Democratic governors when he arrived, 21 10 years later.

As for electability, the Obama side believes — for all his trouble winning lower-income whites in recent primaries — that it is ludicrous to believe she is the stronger candidate in the fall.

A recent ABC News/Washington Post poll found nearly 60 percent of voters think Clinton is dishonest. Think about that: Only four in 10 voters do not think she lies when she needs to. A majority hold an unfavorable view of her.

Will those numbers improve if she wins the nomination and Republicans resurrect the scandals, the Bill Clinton sexual affairs and her Bosnia fib with the same intensity they brought to the Wright uproar? Unthinkable.

Now that the Democratic superdelegates are facing their moment of decision in this close race, you might think it would be time for politesse to give way to an unvarnished discussion about both candidates' real strengths and liabilities.

The Obama side is frustrated with the news media for not carrying more of its argument. His operatives thought a Newsday story looking exhaustively at her legal career — including the revelation that as a young lawyer she attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old rape victim — would provoke a herd of other coverage. It did not happen.

If he really wanted, Obama could generate all the coverage he wanted about Clinton’s past by leveling accusations in his own words. But that is not going to happen.

Politically, he correctly believes that he would be called out as a hypocrite if he practiced the conventional art of attack politics after preaching against it.

And, to view his motives in the best light — a benefit of the doubt extended by his own team — he believes this campaign would also undermine his governing strategy if elected. He has told associates it would be impossible to win support for a progressive agenda unless he assumes the presidency as a uniting figure who can transcend the personality-obsessed brand of combat that has dominated Washington for the past generation.

“I told this to my team, you know, we are starting to sound like the other folks, we are starting to run the same negative stuff,” he told a crowd in North Carolina this week. “It shows that none of us are immune from this kind of politics. But the problem is that it doesn’t help you.”

© 2007 Capitol News Company, LLC

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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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jonestonesusa Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It bores you to hear about your candidate's negatives?
You must be fast asleep with all this Rev. Wright business!
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. it's ok to be scared
and we won't think less of you if you shed a tear fro Lil' Hilly.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. if she's the nominee, I'm sure you'll be wide awake when the repukes
run with this 24/7. At least you better be because that's what you'll get.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Hypnosis induction
Hillary supporters are the easiest people in the world to hypnotize, just start reading this article and they go into a deep trance: ":boring:must vote for Hillary, :boring:must vote for Hillary...:boring:".
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Seriously, leftofcool, why do you dismiss this so quickly?
If we need to consider the lack of experience that the Clinton campaign says is a flaw of Obama's and we need to look at his associations as they have repeatedly claimed, then why should Hillary be held to a different standard?

These are not small issues and they are not just right wing smears. There is ample proof that most of these people did things that were wrong. There is also proof that people like Marc Rich donated generously to the Clintons AFTER services (in this case a pardon) were rendered.

And why shouldn't we look at the fact that we came so close to national health care until Hillary Clinton bungled it? That is an honest issue.

Lastly, if people are going to attack Michelle Obama over trifling issues such as misspeaking about having pride in America, is there any justification for not questioning whether Hillary Clinton's husband would bring the whitehouse into disrepute?

Personally, I'd rather see all of these so-called issues go away but if one side is throwing out the muck, why should their own dirty laundy be dismissed with "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"?
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. Don't hold your breath for a serious answer. n/t
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. A question:
which of these would McCain NOT use against her in the GE?
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. Don't sleep too long.
There's a concession speech from Hillary in your future. Trust me. NO ONE will want to miss it.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. I do have to admit this is the most intelligent post I have seen from you.
See what happens when you lay off the Hillbot Kool Aid. Recovery takes work ~~ congratulations!

:hi:
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R!
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R.
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TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. The thing to remember is that the SD's DO consider all of this
Little Ms purer-than-snow fully-vetted Hillary would be mincemeat within weeks of getting the Dem nomination. Like I've said before, in the baggage department Obama has a carry-on; Clinton's got a whole caravan she's dragging behind her, out of sight but just over the hill.
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olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Couldn't agree more.
And it's pretty amazing Obama has not attacked her on any of those incredibly vulnerable issues.

The Republicans however, will not be so charitable.
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. They think because they're focusing on Obama now, that they have nothing against her.
Wishful thinking.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. And more importantly, her allegiance to David Coe. David Coe. David Coe!
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Psssst...it's Doug Coe.
:hi:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. I stand corrected. At least once.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. DOUG Coe
Good point!
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. I stand corercted twice! Good to know others know what I'm meaning
This Dominionism of Hillary's scares me a lot.

Glad I am not the only one.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
64. Worth another kick just to recall the secretive Prayer Breakfast RW gang she's pals with...
and her spiritual strongman Douglas Coe
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. David allen coe probably likes her too tho...
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. Would that be David Allen Coe? Notorious outlaw country singer?
Mr. Perfect Country and Western Song?

Bake
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. Is he on the YouTube? And is he worth a listen?? n/t
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. I'm sure he is (on YouTube) but the bastids have it blocked at work
So I can't find a link for you ...

Bake
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I'll let you know what I think after I listen to the guy.
And I won't blame you any if I don't like him!!
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. It may be an "acquired taste."
:hi:

Bake
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. I liked him though he struck me as a bit amateurish
And I thought that he looked a lot like Santa Claus - it might be hard to dislike someone who looks like that.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fully Vetted My Ass
Bill needs to come clean about his business associates and library donors. How is that Ron Burkle is paying him $20M? For what? Why are Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Colombia hiring him to speak at astronomical fees? Do they expect quid pro quo from HRC? What about Giustra'a $131M commitment to the Foundation? That's a nice chunk of change. Did HRC consider that when she approved Mountain Top Removal mining in Appalachia? When a foreign entity pays Bill hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that money goes into the joint account which HRC is then free to raid whenever her campaign needs a $5M loan, does that give the appearance of a conflict of interest? I mean, Dubai puts $100,000 in Bill's pocket, HRC reaches into Bill's pocket for money to loan to her campaign so Mark Penn can get paid, isn't that just a little bit shady?
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. Hill, Bill are owned by 'special interests'
Stephanie, you expressed my concerns exactly. And then there's CHINA and the Riadys...

Would McCain use all that against Hillary?
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. I want the names of each and every one of them that screamed God Damn America while
banging their private parts on the alter telling lies about Obama and his wife.
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. I think we have had enough of BILL's Private Parts banging against VARIOUS Alters.
You think America is pure as driven snow?? You have to have been living in a cave your entire life.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. I guess you missed Wright's little trick at the alter then.
banging on the alter is what he did
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. The word is "altar".
Alter means "to change", but as a Hillary suppporter, you wouln't know anything about that.

When did Obama bang on an altar?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. Old WHITEWATER, keep on rollin'
Arkansas moon, wont you keep on shinin on me
Old WHITEWATER, keep on rollin
Arkansas moon, wont you keep on shinin on me
Old WHITEWATER, keep on rollin
Arkansas moon, wont you keep on shinin on me
Yeah, keep on shinin your light
Gonna make everything, pretty mama
Gonna make everything all right
And I aint got no worries
cause I aint in no hurry at all
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hillary can dish it out, but she can't take it!
As she has shown repeatedly, Hillary loves to trash talk others, but anything about her sordid past is off limits. How dare you?! How dare you mention _______?!

It must be genetic, because her kid has it, too.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. All that is old old news. Politico basically is
a gotcha gossip column and VandeHei is a weasel.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Wright is old news at this point as well.
So is Rezko, but a myriad of Hillary supporters inundate this forum with the same garbage day after day.

Why do you think Hillary should get a pass?
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. No one should get a pass, but going
back years to dig up old news is what the media do best. The Wright business will continue for at least another week and that is absurd. I realize on Clinton vs Obama it is tit for tat. Juvenile. I am waiting for the media to sell out the Bush cabal but I will be waiting, waiting, . . .
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. And do you really think that someone who could amass that much baggage
BEFORE 2000, has gathered none SINCE 2000? You really think there is no "new news" go stack on top of the "old news"?

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nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. And that doesn't even count the revolutionaries Hillary is tied to according to Tom Hayden
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. It might be old news if the Clintons would release the Library donor lists
But they refuse. What have they got to hide?
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. 35 years of experience brings along alot of baggage
The Repugs only want her to win for one reason, so they can wipe the floor with her.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. lots and lots and lots and lots of baggage
really big bags, too.
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well Finally!! Good catch..K&R!! MSM seems to be moving beyond Wright.
Politico has been printing SO many pro-Clinton articles I thought they were part of the campaign. Lets see if the coming few days are different.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R!
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton
All McCain would have to do is to run commercials showing the linkage and it would be a cake walk.


McCain would then be the one running on a change platform and he could then pivit and run against both Bush and Clinton.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
54. Bush I and II have trained them well
Edited on Fri May-02-08 08:02 AM by goclark
They are now the official Crime Families...
Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton

Can't tell the difference between the two families anymore.
It is a horror movie .... The Manchurian Clinton's.



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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. She's a trainwreck.
Thanks for the post!
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. .
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. I've posted against the RW since I arrived here in 2001-I voted for President Clinton twice,
I defended his administration, etc.

When I finally took a good look at the networks used by HRC and her campaign I realized, in no uncertain terms, that they are a bunch of criminals and liars allied with some of the same extreme RWers as the neocons and had abandoned "traditional" Democrats and Democratic voters decades ago.

As far as I'm concerned they are partners of the Bush Family Evil Empire working the "other side" of the same filthy RW street.

"Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

"Know Your DLC: Mark Penn"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5515506
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
37. recommended
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
42. Kick for getting the bad news out
concerning the chickenshithawkhilary.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
43. K/R.
:kick:
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wrando Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. if Obama wins the nomination
You won't be posting anything from the Politico

these are right wing hacks with connections

they won't think Obama is pretty once he's nominated

bill from ct
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nonobadfish Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Just so you know they were fair-the first one they wrote is what Hillary isn't saying about Obama
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wrando Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. perfect
they'll be using all this crap to smear whoever the dems pick

bill from ct
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #44
53. They've already started, last fall they had an "Obama's drug use, how much ,how often"
article, quoting parts of his book out of context.

They are no friends of Dems.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. KnR
:kick:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
56. "Huffpo: Bill Clinton's Ties to Colombia Trade Deal Stronger Than Even Penn's"
archived flpoljunkie thread started 4-8-2008
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5427854

:dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: :dem:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. Back To The Top...
:dem:
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 05:40 PM
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58. you have 66 posts
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Your profile shows more than 2,500 since joining in March and you're from Dallas
:yoiks:

$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$
"Money trumps peace sometimes..." George Walker Bush
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