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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:02 PM
Original message
Magnequench, Clinton Lies - and Why Indiana Will Easily Go To Barack
Edited on Fri May-02-08 09:35 PM by K Gardner
Blog Entry

Clinton and Bayh make false statements in Indiana campaign! Another example!
Apr 30, 2008 8:11 PM iibfree
1,001 posts since
Jan 24, 2008
This is what Sen. Clinton is telling the people of Indiana:

"Well, a Chinese company bought Magnequench and then they decided that they were going to move the whole company from Indiana to China. Now the president of the United States has the authority to veto that kind of a move, but Senator Bayh begged the Bush administration not to export it — it was going to lose jobs but it was also going to lose the know-how, the technical sophistication that created those magnets. President Bush and his administration wouldn't, basically wouldn't even give Evan Bayh the time of day. Those jobs left, and along with them went the savvy to make the magnets."


What she did not tell the people of Indiana is that originally Magnequench was sold to the Chinese during Bill Clinton’s administration. It was his administration that approved of the move although it had concerns for national security and job loss. Even with those concerns, the deal was consummated during the Clinton years!
Sen. Clinton cannot be accused of getting the facts wrong because it happened so long ago. He campaign called Andy Albers, former VP of Magnequench asking about key details regarding the company’s sale to China BEFORE Sen. Clinton spoke of the sale.
Any Albers said of the phone conversation, “"I told them all the truth, but it didn't go anywhere. Evan Bayh and Hillary Clinton are living in some false reality here, making all these false accusations."

This is just another example of Hillary Clinton bending the facts in an attempt to make her a star!




From the Merrillville, Indiana, Post-Tribune:


April 11, 2008

Clinton, Magnequench and China

By Andy Grimm Post-Tribune staff writer


U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton on Saturday will discuss the future of defense industry jobs with former employees of Magnequench at a town-hall meeting at Washington Township High School, just east of Valparaiso...
The high school is not far from the former Magnequench plant in Valparaiso, which manufactured magnets used in the guidance systems for "smart bombs" until it closed five years ago. The parent company moved its manufacturing operations to China.

In a conference call with reporters from Northwest Indiana, U.S. Sen. Evan Bayh, a Clinton supporter and possible vice presidential running mate, said Magnequench's move cost the region 225 manufacturing jobs that provided better-than-average wages and benefits.

"It's not very smart to align America's defense on the goodwill of the Chinese, and yet that's exactly what happened," he said.

In a campaign ad (see below), Hillary Clinton decries the idea that American defense parts are being made in China and blames it on the Bush Administration. She repeated this during her visit to Valpariso, the former home of Magnequench.

But, just as with so many things emanating from the Clinton campaign, this one is not totally true and conveys a false impression.

It was during the Bill Clinton Administration (1995) that the sale of Magnequench to the Chinese was approved (via their surrogates Archibald Cox and the Sextant Group). As the Indianapolis Star reported, the Clinton Administration could have blocked the sale since " Congress gave the president authority to block foreign acquisitions that could threaten national security". That law was available to the Clinton Administration.

Bill Clinton could have blocked the sale to the Chinese and yet chose not to. Whether that failure by the Clinton Administration to act was tied to alleged Chinese fund raising for Bill Clinton's reelection is not clear. Had he blocked the acquisition those 225 jobs would most likely have remained in Indiana. The actual moving of the company overseas (with the resultant loss of American jobs) did occur in 2003 under the Bush Administration but would not have happened without the Clinton Administration's 1995 approval.

The loss of the Magnequench jobs in Indiana was a direct result of Bill Clintons faillure to act to protect foreign acquisition of defense technology. Hillary Clinton needs to look closer to home before she blames this all on Bush.


Tapper Wrote About This, Too

Edited to add the most informative and enlightening article link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080428/cm_huffpost/098972 (Warning to the fact-challenged: lots of info and complicated factoids at link )

Lots of other info about this in a Google Search. I'd say the heat was getting turned up.. ergo, the MEMO has been leaked.

Obama may have had a Pastor Problem, but he has NONE of the Integrity Issues that Clinton has. People are sick and tired of liars. They will say, NOT THIS TIME on Tuesday.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hi, K Gardner. Plus, it's going to be interesting to see how far
Evan Bayh's job strategy gets after Tuesday.

I guess if Sen. Clinton wins in Indiana, he is still a contender for the veep slot.

If she doesn't, and Obama also wins in North Carolina the same day, Evan may have to console himself with staying put.


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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Hey OC ! I really will be interested to see if this gets ANY attention outside
of Indiana papers. There have been plenty of issues such as this which could have been raised about Clinton, but have been ignored by MSM due to lack of Wright-appeal :-) :hi:
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
65. Here's the transcript of Brian Howey comments on Hardball yesterday..
Brian Howey is the publisher of the Web site called Howeypoliticsindiana. And Mark Johnson`s a political reporter for "The Charlotte Observer" in North Carolina.

Howey, how`s it going in that race in Indiana, the Hoosier state? Who`s going to win that thing?

BRIAN HOWEY, HOWEYPOLITICSINDIANA: Well, I think we`ve got a very fluid situation. I think Obama started out with about a 15-point lead in our Howey-Gage (ph) poll in February. It really seemed to tighten up in early April. The last couple polls I`ve seen have shown Hillary Clinton, you know, approaching a double-digit lead. But I get the sense that maybe the Jeremiah Wright is kind of pulling away. The two campaigns have really started talking about the gas prices, and the Magnaquench (ph) story I think is going to come up this weekend, too. So it`s a very fluid situation...

MATTHEWS: What`s it called? Help me out. Fill me in. What`s that?

HOWEY: Well, the Magnaquench is a magnet maker that made military magnets, picked up, moved to China. Hillary Clinton was very effective a couple weeks ago, along with Senator Bayh, going across the state, talking about not only losing jobs but losing military-sensitive jobs. What`s happened is there`s been a memo that surfaced where Senator Bayh apparently was blaming the Clinton administration for allowing Magnaquench to go to China. So...

MATTHEWS: Wow. So she`s...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... hoisted on her own petard, perhaps.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. So show me where she lied?
Please show me. Her husband approved the move. The move took place under Bush in 2003 and he could have stopped it. So where is the lie?
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my2cent Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Desperate obama supporters
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :spray:
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Good God! 2 debunked stories in one day
These children never learn
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. If they push this, it will be yet another embarrassment for Obama.
Shows their dirty tricks...two in one day.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. true - yet another lie/smear to stop Clinton - Obama's "new politics" I guess
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
67. Tell me the lie here. Do you have a link?
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dennysp Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. R E A D for Yourself
"Senator Bayh begged the Bush administration not to export it" It was the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION that allowed the technology to be exported.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. CFIUS is the starting point & didn't object to China's San Huan's purchase so it wasn't sent to Bill
The company was merged with a Canadian corp and renamed NEO - but the 10 year stay in US agreement was not broken until 2003 - AND BUSH'S CFIUS did not try to enforce the agreement or force a reversal of the deal.

So the gov trade people were given the change to stop it (CFIUS) and said that GM's former subsidiary being sold did not change or increase the ability of the Chinese to buy the product and did not affect the US as long as we had 10 years more of in the US production from the company. It never went to Bill Clinton from CFIUS.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
63. It's called a "lie of omission" or a "half-truth."
She seeks to place all the blame for this on Bush. A lot of the blame lies at the feet of Bill Clinton.
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dennysp Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
72. Magnaquench Factories Closed DURING Clinton Administration
Here you go. The move began in June 2000 with GA Powders, a subsidiary of Magnaquench.....promptly sent to China.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/30/185156/731/351/501048

Now, spin THAT!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nominated.
Thank you.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Nominated for BullShit post of the week? I agree,,...,so "typical"
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Tell that to the major media outlets that are running stories about this.
Plenty of links in the post, if you can read.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. The GOP/media want Obama and run with whatever PR sheet they hand out-still's a lie
CFIUS is the starting point & didn't object to China's San Huan's purchase so it wasn't sent to Bill

The company was merged with a Canadian corp and renamed NEO - but the 10 year stay in US agreement was not broken until 2003 - AND BUSH'S CFIUS did not try to enforce the agreement or force a reversal of the deal.

So the gov trade people were given the change to stop it (CFIUS) and said that GM's former subsidiary being sold did not change or increase the ability of the Chinese to buy the product and did not affect the US as long as we had 10 years more of in the US production from the company. It never went to Bill Clinton from CFIUS.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. Same here.
Their defensive "smokescreen" blows away at a mere puff.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. ha ha ha totally debunked already
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Hillary Hub spin does not equal debunking
Send me a link to factcheck.org or a reputable neutral source and I'll start listening.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Oh?
Just you wait and see, tee hee hee.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
46. no no
its their new thing
ive watched it evolve
now "debunking"is when 2 or more hillary supporters say something isnt true
thats all they now require
and since only hillary tells the truth you have to source anything about her through a hillary web site
they have lost it completely
:crazy:
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pompano Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
73. There ain't no....
debunking like a Hillary "God Bless Us Rich People" Clinton blog debunking. A Hillary "IWR, sniper dodging, phone answering, McCain praising, Clinton blog is the standard by which all debunking will be held to. :rofl:

Ha Ha
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Strange. I read that and see that it CONFIRMS that Hill and Bayh are lying.
The interesting thing is that politicians just LOVE the fools who thing that "approval on condition" is somehow binding. It's not - and they damned well KNOW it. Such a "condition" is never embodied in a lien, is never manifest in any contract, and cannot be specifically enforced. It's bafflegarb and obfuscation .. a smoke screen raised to fool the complete idiots who are deluded into thinking it's the same as a statutory or contractual prohibition. It. Just. Ain't.

It's the SAME DAMNED BULLSHIT as Hillary claiming that her vote on the IWR was based on the "well-grounded expectation" (sheer bullshit) that BushJr would exhaust all alternatives and make absolutely certain that Iraq's (alleged) threat was real. TOTAL, UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT. She didn't even read the NIE, for krissakes. She's a lawyer! She KNOWS what "due diligence" is. She fucking evaded it!

Some folks should just tattoo "willingly deluded fool" on their foreheads and not bother voting. She's got your number!


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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Same Here
funny how that happened.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
57. Agree...
"The interesting thing is that politicians just LOVE the fools who thing that "approval on condition" is somehow binding. It's not - and they damned well KNOW it. Such a "condition" is never embodied in a lien, is never manifest in any contract, and cannot be specifically enforced. It's bafflegarb and obfuscation .. a smoke screen raised to fool the complete idiots who are deluded into thinking it's the same as a statutory or contractual prohibition. It. Just. Ain't..."
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. I appplaud this kind of fact checking; we need more of it.
If you want the straight facts, you don't want the Clintons, or for that matter flip flop McCain.

K&R
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nominated (nt)
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. Clinton Proposed Most Favored Trade w China despite Opposition from Dems:
Clinton Proposes Renewing China's Most-Favored Trade Status

Congressional reaction mixed amidst larger China policy issues

WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, June 3) -- President Bill Clinton on Wednesday proposed renewing most-favored-nation (MFN) trade status for China, saying it was "clearly in our nation's interest" as he urged Congress to support the request.

Most-favored-nation status offers low tariffs and treats countries as normal trading partners.

-snip
House Speaker Newt Gingrich welcomed Clinton's recommendation for renewing MFN status for China, and vowed to work in a bipartisan manner to ensure that China receives it from Congress.

-snip

House Democratic leader Richard Gephardt issued a statement Wednesday opposing Clinton's plan to extend China's trading status for another year.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/06/03/china.trade/



CLINTON FLIP-FLOPPED AND IN THE END HE CAVED IN TO THE LOBBYISTS:

Alarmed by Clinton's original insistence on linking trade to human rights, corporate lobbyists launched a massive campaign in 1994 which succeeded in reversing Clinton's position. "The result," observed the New York Times, "has been an extraordinary struggle pitting executives against former torture victims and prison camp survivors and persecuted Christians in a competition to win the attention of Congress and the Administration."

"In the final weeks leading up to . . . Clinton's decision to grant most-favored-nation trading status to China, Washington was swarming with lobbyists pushing MFN," stated the Legal Times. "The advocates ranged from an ad hoc group of two dozen major US companies to the Emergency Committee for American Trade (ECAT), a group of 60 chairmen and chief executives of US-owned exporters. . . . Among the lobbyists taking part were R. D. Folsom, a vice president at the D.C. lobby shop R. Duffy Wall and Associates, who represents the Footwear Distributors and Retailers of America; Michael Daniels, a partner in the D.C. office of the New York law firm Mudge Rose Guthrie Alexander & Ferdon; and Mark McConnell and Warren Maruyama, partners at the D.C. law firm Hogan & Hartson."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mandarins_and_Moguls_Unite_for_China's_Most-Favored_Nation_Status
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. All True......
kick
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. Most Favored Trade" means same as everyone else's - no special taxes added on
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #45
60. w China it means importing cheap goods since they don't have fair wages, benefits, environment r
regulations, and obviously quality control. Look at the tainted goods coming into this country-and THANK BILL CLINTON!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. dig dig dig. oops nothing there.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Debunk it or
move on
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. See post #4
Edited on Fri May-02-08 09:15 PM by Maribelle
Perhaps you should move on
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. That's Called Spin....
If you can't be honest with yourself, don't even bother talking to me. Got it?
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. That's called facts - - even when they don't agree with your biased opinion.
So sod off now.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. Whatever you say
Edited on Fri May-02-08 10:11 PM by fascisthunter
and go "sod off" yourself and spin yourself to sleep.


:nopity:


ignored... buh bye. DLC and the GOP are waiting for ya.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. *SNORT*
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. Much more at this link: Read this and THEN say Hillary hasn't been busted, big time.
If you can't read it, don't bother to defend with insults and tripe.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080428/cm_huffpost/098972

Clinton is airing this advertisement in Indiana, bemoaning the closure of a defense contractor Magnequench's manufacturing plant in Valparaiso (she is also echoing this line in her stump speeches). Looking at the camera, she tells us she's upset that the 200 jobs that were sent to China, and that "now America's defense relies on Chinese spare parts." And then comes the kicker: She tells viewers that "George Bush could have stopped it, but he didn't."

Clinton is certainly right that it is a tragedy that 200 American jobs were killed in a corporate deal that also exported sensitive military technology to China. But she forgets to mention that it wasn't George Bush who was in the key position to stop it -- it was Bill Clinton.

Back in 1995, a Chinese consortium, which included two Chinese state-owned companies, made a bid to take over Magnequench. Because the company makes key parts for smart bombs, the takeover had to be approved by the Clinton administration's Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States. Despite the national security and economic problems with selling off such critical manufacturing capacity to the Chinese -- and despite the knowledge that such a deal would likely end in a domestic mass layoff -- the Clinton administration approved the deal. This same deal -- not surprisingly -- paved the way for those 200 Indiana jobs and that sensitive military technology to be shipped to China.

The Clinton administration's move was not surprising. This was an administration whose NAFTA and China PNTR record more than proved it was intent on helping Big Money interests face as little resistance to international financial transactions as possible -- consequences be damned. But the move was very controversial, raising the ire of key Hillary Clinton surrogate Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN). As the Los Angeles Times reported in 2005, "Bayh was particularly disturbed by the committee's decision in 1995 to approve a Chinese consortium's takeover of Magnequench Inc." In 2006, Bayh specifically slammed the Clinton administration's approval of the deal to the South Bend Tribune, saying "It's not smart to put ourselves in the position of relying on the Chinese for a critical component of a vital weapon system, and yet that is what the CFIUS process has allowed."

Unfortunately, as he has campaigned around Indiana with Hillary Clinton listening to her decry the Magenquench fiasco, Bayh has suddenly gone silent on the matter. Apparently, the power-worshiping pursuit of the vice presidency is enough to silence a senator whose constituents were so brazenly sold out and who had previously feigned outrage at the situation.

Luckily, at least some Hoosiers have not forgotten. Here's just one recent letter to the editor -- this one from the Merrillville Post-Tribune on 4/17/08:

Hillary Clinton must have been hoping we Hoosiers have short memories when she decided to take Magnequench as her main talking point in Valparaiso. Apparently Evan Bayh didn't tell her the company was sold in 1995 to an investment group, Sextant, that included two Chinese companies. Her husband was president at the time and allowed this to happen. In 1995, Beijing San Huan New Material High-Tech Inc. and China National Non-Ferrous Metals Import & Export Corp. partnered with an investment firm, the Sextant Group Inc., to acquire Magnequench.
<snip>
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Huffpo.......yea they are really credible right now
Let us know when if this debunked story hits the MSM too
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Seriously, are you daft?! Did you even read the article, which contained INDISPUTABLE FACTS that
you can also find at, oh.. White House Dot GOV . Get a freakin grip.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. forget logic
i had a hillary supporter argue with me that cnn's vote totals were more accurate than the secretary of states official count

:crazy:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. "Sextant"!!
You can't make this shit up!

Thanks, K, fascinating reading. I haven't read evan bayh's memo yet where he blames clinton. It's only right that the voters of Indiana get the real scoop on hilary before they ignorantly vote for the panderer.
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Great post K Gardner-K&R!!
I'm not shocked anymore by any new lies HRC tells to manipulate people to vote for her. I am shocked by Evan Bayh though, because I always thought he was a good guy even though he is supporting HRC.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. In 2006, Bayh slammed Clinton's approval of the deal to the South Bend Tribune...
Edited on Fri May-02-08 09:31 PM by K Gardner
"In 2006, Bayh specifically slammed the Clinton administration's approval of the deal to the South Bend Tribune, saying "It's not smart to put ourselves in the position of relying on the Chinese for a critical component of a vital weapon system, and yet that is what the CFIUS process has allowed." "

(At link in post directly above yours- http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080428/cm_huffpost/098972 )
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. K and r
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Do you think Hillary will become BITTER at having this adverse
publicity leaked three days before the vote?

I am having so much fun saying this tonight, K Gardner. I have always been repulsed by dirty tactics in campaigns, but I do believe whatever Hillary gets Hillary deserves. One can only allow oneself to be a doormat so long before he or she has to get up and fight back. Barack Obama has tried so hard to stay above the crass, but things are at the point now he must defend himself and his campaign.

The best thing about your thread is that the facts seem indisputable. Thanks for the info.

Sam
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Two things are amazing to me: 1) That these connections are either
not covered at all or the media buries them beneath sensationalism and 2) That the Clintons think people are too stupid to figure them out.

Judging from the front page of DU and MSNBC tonight with continued Wright coverage, perhaps both are true. :hi:

At least I'm comforted that *some* know :-)
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. k & r, but I don't put that much faith in my fellow hoosiers. It's a very OPEN primary, and
"operation chaos" is in full swing here. plus the Bayh factor... I'm not ready to say "easily."
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. True.. but the info about Bayh is fairly damaging.. hypocritical to say the least. He IS very
popular tho, so it may not gain traction !
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I sooo hope you're right. Here the media is all RW, so it has to get reported 1st. Fingers crossed!
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. Clintons and Bushes: OWNED BY CHINA, bought, paid for.
The Bushes and the Clintons are owned by China. Bush I was Ambassador there in 70s, right? the Clintons were financed by agent Charlie Trie then the Riady family. I'm sure there are folks here who can provide the links.

Obama is relatively CLEAN. We sure could use clean now. Are american voters so stupid that they will go for the same old same?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. i forgot about these guys
this was brought up here last year if i remember correctly. thanks for the reminder....obama has rezko which is chump change compared to the clintons...
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. Toxic waste incinerator approved by Clinton in east Liverpool Ohio afterhe promised he wouldn't
on a campaign stop there. He never returned to East Liverpool and the kids at the elementary school 1100 ft away began testing positive for mercury after it opened. It is an extremely hazardous situation arising solely because he put his friend from Arkansas ahead of the interests of these kids and the town.

the friend was a rich client at the Rose Law firm where Hillary knew him from.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Toxic fallout from the Clinton years, Part I.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
61. Yeah. And it was closed down within 2 weeks.
But of course, Hillary personally dumped the mercury in it herself.

On orders from the Illuminati.

Riiiiiight.

--p!
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. are you nuts! That incinerator is operating today it was not closed down they
Edited on Sat May-03-08 11:47 AM by caligirl
added even more dangerous chemicals to incinerate as time went on. Why would you think you can say something so blatantly untrue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x23023

EAST LIVERPOOL, Ohio - Four year-old Alex Estell has one of the world's largest toxic-waste incinerators at the bottom of his garden. Its smokestack is about 600 feet from his bedroom window.

The incinerator is down on the Ohio River bank flood plain; the house is on a bluff overlooking it. Standing in his back yard, little Alex is eye-level with the 150-foot stack's 60-foot mark.

Von Roll USA Inc., the Swiss owner of the Waste Technologies Industries (WTI) incinerator, has permits to annually pump 7,400 pounds of lead, dioxin and other hazardous materials into the air.

Scientists have deplored the serious health risks, and Alex's parents, Bob and Sandy Estell, along with thousands of other families and 20,000 petitioners in the tristate (Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia) area want it closed long before it reaches full capacity.

As a result, Alex's back yard has become what Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University (see accompanying story), calls "the central battleground for the toxic-waste incinerator permitting process."

"There is roughly a half-billion dollars on that Ohio River bank, and a great many companies and individuals have a financial interest in that incinerator going into full operation," Turley said. "Those people are willing to spend a lot of money and spill a great deal of political blood to keep the citizens from succeeding."

The hazardous-waste industry and its allies see East Liverpool and WTI as a battleground, too. They accuse environmental group Greenpeace, consumer activist Ralph Nader and Lois Gibbs of the Citizens Clearinghouse for Hazardous Waste of using the anti-WTI campaign as a fund-raiser.

A recent Waste Technologies news release states that its opponents "are running on empty, financially speaking, so they are trying to get money flowing their way."

Turley's affections are with WTI opponents in East Liverpool.

Turley, who founded the Environmental Crimes Project, based in Washington, said, "The WTI case reveals something of a noble lie in our country. Citizens are assured that the federal government will require careful permitting and operation of hazardous-waste facilities, are encouraged to participate in reviews promised that affected communities will have a voice in decisions .

"What the WTI families did not realize was that you could prove your case, organize your community and convince your national leaders and still lose in the byzantine regulatory system. The Beltway's lawyers and lobbyists are paid to reverse such decisions in local communities.

"Ironically, the more public the outcry, the more the lobbyists and lawyers can charge to rescue investors and operators from the public whim. WTI has made a great number of people wealthy at the expense of the community of East Liverpool."

There are two questions: Is the WTI incinerator dangerous to public health? Is it, because of multiple transfers of ownership and the like, illegal?

Dangerous? In March 1993 just before the trial burn at which emissions would be measured, Federal District Court Judge Ann Aldrich, in a suit brought by Greenpeace, ordered the test burn halted on the basis that it would risk increased cancer deaths and "clearly may cause imminent and substantial endangerment to health and the environment." The 6th Court of Appeals reversed the decision on grounds of juristiction, not on Aldrich's risk findings.

Dangerous? WTI's operators say no: "The plant employs extensive emissions controls and monitoring systems that are setting the standard for the country."


******************************************************************
Even so, in July 1992 in Weirton, W.Va., vice presidential candidate Al Gore told WTI protesters that a Clinton White House would mean a presidency "on your side for a change, instead of on the side of the garbage generators."

In December 1992, the incoming administration reaffirmed its safety-first decision to block the WTI incinerator. Those promises turned out to be clouds of political emissions, smoke quickly blown away when Clinton and Gore apparently discovered that an original financier for WTI was Jackson Stephens, an Arkansas investment banker. It was Stephens who, at the last minute, provided the rapidly emptying coffers of Clinton's presidential campaign with a $3.5 million line of credit.

The White House referred NCR to Vice President Gore's office and to the Environmental Protection Agency regarding WTI and the timing of Clinton's discovery that Stephens was involved. By press time, Gore's office had not responded to faxed questions or phone calls.

Clinton washed his hands of WTI by dumping responsibility for the WTI decision back on President Bush. Then, as Clinton and Gore looked the other way, the company received permission for the trial burn.
***********************************************************************************


The Environmental Protection Agency appointee responsible for public liaison on WTI was Deputy Administrator Robert Sussman, a Clinton law school classmate and former legal counsel to the Chemical Manufacturers Association.

Sussman's role is an indication "that the process is so corrupt," said EPA whistle-blower and engineer Hugh Kaufman, that he petitioned Attorney General Janet Reno to open a criminal investigation. No action was taken. WTI's incinerator is now in "limited commercial" operation, said Bill Omohundro, spokesperson for the EPA in Chicago. The final phase of a WTI health-risk assessment study will probably be made known by August or September, he said.

"The reason WTI is still operating has more to do with its political connections than its legal foundations," Turley said. "If we cannot stop a WTI incinerator, with all its blatant illegalities, it is doubtful that we would be able to challenge any incinerator."

WTI counsel Charles Waterman III of Columbus told NCR that there are "Hazardous Waste Facility Board proceedings in Ohio to transfer the permit that WTI initiated - an ownership change." Meanwhile, Greenpeace has appealed the Nov. 19 dismissal of its case against WTI and, Waterman said, his firm is waiting to see whether the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati will reconsider its decision.

Whatever happens in the legal realm, by the time Alex is 14, toxic emissions laden with tons of lead, dioxin and more could have descended on him, his two brothers, Matthew and Ryan, two sisters, Elizabeth and Sierra, on the other kids who live on Etruria Street and on the 400 pupils in East Elementary School across the road from Alex's house.

And it does descend, said Alex's parents. Because the smokestack is below the tops of the surrounding hills, for most of the year there is a classic inversion - the smoke goes down instead of up.

That is dangerous for several reasons, said Bob Estell, not least because estimates by the EPA measure the "safety" of the emissions as if the smoke were being dispersed over a 50-mile radius.

In a June 24, 1993, letter to Clinton, experts in the fields of public health, toxicology, environmental health and medicine said "the facility is located in a flood plain on the banks of the Ohio River - source of drinking water for millions downstream - in a valley with frequent air inversions that can concentrate airborne pollutants."

This is Catholic territory, the Youngstown diocese. Youngstown Bishop, James Malone in November gave congressional testimony against environmental racism (NCR, Jan. 14) and for years fought "big steel" over Youngstown closures. East Liverpool's 500 African American live in the immediate vicinity of the WTI incinerator.

Where is Malone on WTI? Nowhere,

He told NCR he had not spoken out against WTI, and "the principal reason, I think, is that there have been Catholic persons involved in both sides of the issue locally, and the message it seemed to me was being carried very well by the persons engaged there locally. So I did not interpose any statement of my own."

Catholic WTI activists such as East Liverpool school nurse June Archer, who once served on the diocesan peace and justice committee, contend Malone has been hobbled by local big-business threats against Campaign for Human Development and Catholic Charities drives if he spoke out. Malone's auxiliary, Bishop Benedict Franzetta, who grew up in East Liverpool, has been silent, too, report other local Catholics.

This tristate area is where West Virginia's upraised finger, Pennsylvania's western http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-14878916.html


http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html

Table of Contents

* Problem
* Background
* Key Actors
* Demographics
* Strategies
* Solutions
* Recommendations
* Key Contacts
* Back to Back to Environmental Justice Case Studies

Above map taken fromTiger Mapping Service, 1997.
The Problem
The Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. incinerator is located in the floodplain of the Ohio River in East Liverpool, Ohio. The surrounding area is elevated on a bluff, such that incinerator's stack is level with the windows of local buildings. The incinerator is located about 300 feet from homes and just 1100 feet from an elementary school. The location of the facility has been intensely criticized by citizens, scientists, and government officials alike. East Liverpool is located at the juncture of Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania, approximately 35 miles from Pittsburgh.

The WTI struggle is a regional issue that drew much national attention during the early 1990's, much to the credit of organizer Terri Swearingen, a citizen of Chester, W. VA. who coordinates the Tri-State Environmental Council. Tri-State Environmental Council became outraged by the various environmental problems that the WTI facility has created for several reasons. First, there has never been a comprehensive study of the potential health effects upon the surrounding community, either from inhalation of toxics or accumulation of materials (such as dioxin, a known carcinogen) in fatty tissues and subsequent transmission via mother's milk or the food chain. Also, the incinerator will be pumping hazardous chemicals into the environment, including mercury and other heavy metals. It is expected to emit 4.5 tons of lead per year, and this less than 400 yards from an elementary school and residential area.

Foremost, issues of environmental justice have been avoided by regulatory officials through this struggle, although it has been observed that East Liverpool and the surrounding communities are predominantly low-income and minority neighborhoods. These neighborhoods have already incurred adverse environmental effects from existing local industry. Government response during the reauthorization process for WTI as well as towards these concerns has been conspicuously slow.

Back to Table of Contents
Background
Waste Technologies Industries' hazardous waste incinerator was first proposed in 1977, and has been under severe scrutiny from its neighbors since 1980. Once construction began in 1990, an intense campaign against the WTI facility and incineration as a means of hazardous waste disposal commenced in East Liverpool, surrounding communities, and eventually the nation. WTI its self has been a topic o national controversy, and was mentioned specifically during the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign. Clinton and Gore promised the American people that not only would the Clinton Administration never let such a facility become a reality, but they aimed to prevent the WTI facility from opening before questions regarding the safety and legality of its operation were answered. Vice-President-Elect Gore, along with five U.S. Senators and two Representatives, followed up on this promise by requesting a General Accounting Office (GAO) investigation of the facility. However, after sixteen years of community struggle after the incinerator was proposed, the facility is currently operating, despite an array of procedural and legal mishaps.

There have been repeated discrepancies in ownership throughout the permit application process. RCRA permits are not transferrable between parties, thus the Ohio Attorney General declared the permits invalid. Furthermore, the initial permit applications were not signed, and thus technically cannot be issued. The initial permits listed Columbiana Port Authority as part owner of the facility. Later, Columbiana Port Authority asked to be removed from the permit, and may have been listed as part owner simply because the land on which WTI sits was once owned by the Port Authority. The land then taken in emminent domain from the Port Authority, later to be sold to WTI. Emminent domain requires that a public entity show "proper public purpose" before it acquires property for public use. Whether WTI's incinerator demonstrates proper public purpose is obviously still at question by the community of East Liverpool.

WTI's facility seems to have escaped various environmental regulations. For example, an Ohio law passed in August 1984 prohibits any incinerator within 2000 feet of a school, hospital, prison or in a floodpain. However, WTI was exempted because the new policy did not
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
47. K&R. Come on Indiana! End this so Obama can start defeating McCain.
nt
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
49. I think that everyone missed the most important point of the OP
Let's put aside for a minute that the charges that Clinton approved it are true or not.

Why do you think it will have an impact in Indiana - isn't it all to much inside baseball for it to have much of an impact?
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TexanDem Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
50. This story on ABC News >>> (link) >>>
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4757257&page=1

I saw it. They showed clips of Hillary talking about this company and how lousy it was of Bush to allow the company and the secrets to go to China but in fact, it wasn't Bush; it was Bill Clinton who was involved when China bought the company.

This story should be huge! heard a slight mention of it on Hardball today, but then they continued on with their usual bashing Obama spin.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. google search-- Magnequench
the whole sorted tale is on the first page...


could we say treason?
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TexanDem Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Sounds like treason to me! Was very surprised ABC network aired the story >>>
any bets that GeoSteph won't ask Hillary about it during his interview Sunday??
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. if i want to watch porn.... i`ll click on youporn


georgie boy would`t want to offend his girlfriend
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #50
68. well in all fairness Rev Wright hasn't put it into a sermon yet
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
55. Researched this a bit when the ad first aired...
see original post for links including the quote below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x120290#120517

It appears this began in 1995, is Bill Clinton partially responsible?

I think there may be more than one person at fault...


"...After acquiring GA Powders, Magnequench opened a new powder plant in Tianjin, China, in June 2000, moving production closer to the source of raw materials and driving down the overall cost of the NdFeB magnets. (The lab retained the patent rights used by GA Powders.) The purchase of Magnequench by Beijing San Huan New Material High-Tech Inc. and China National Non-Ferrous Metals Import & Export Corporation and the Sextant Group Inc, included all the patents used by Magnequench.)..."


Based on Magnequench, can we trust Clinton?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5564309

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. 'Smart bomb' technology moving to China
Forget about when the actual manufacturing and jobs left for a moment, when was the technology sold.

:shrug:


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34037

"...In 1995, the Magnequench sale was completed, and San Huan told investors it chose to acquire the General Motors company because "it possessed the best technology, biggest production capability and sole patent for rapidly quenched NdFeB powder."

The powders are used in the manufacturing of state-of-the-art sintered neodymium-iron-boron magnets. The move was said to "set San Huan firmly on the road toward international expansion."


....Despite the wide range of consumer-market uses for NdFeB magnets, the possible military applications of "dual-use" sintered NdFeB magnets concern critics.

About the 863 Program, the 1999 congressional Cox Report noted, "These projects could advance the PRC's development of materials, such as composites, for military aircraft and other weapons." Potential dual-use of exotic materials acquisitions were said to be a key area of military concern."


AMERICA'S CHINA SYNDROME
Beijing acquires more
U.S. technology

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31385

"...A 1999 congressional report on PRC espionage directed at commercial and military technology from the United States says that the Chinese "State Science and Technology Commission," the agency where Deng Nan, wife of Magnequench Chairman Zhang Hong, serves as vice minister, is responsible for "importing technologies for military use." The report, known as the "Cox Committee Report" for the select committee's chairman, Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., states: "In 1986, 'Paramount Leader' Deng Xiaoping adopted a major initiative, the so-called 863 Program, to accelerate the acquisition and development of science and technology." According to the congressional report, "The PRC claims that the 863 Program produced nearly 1,500 research achievements by 1996 and was supported by nearly 30,000 scientific and technical personnel who worked to advance the PRC's economy and ... national-defense construction."

The report lists "exotic materials" such as "rare-earth metals" as technology being sought to enhance the PRC's military capabilities. It says China was using "joint ventures" with U.S. businesses as a way of obtaining "dual-use technology" that has both industrial and military applications – such as that it obtained with Magnequench. "The PRC is also working to translate foreign technical data, analyze it and assimilate it for PLA military programs," says the report..."





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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
58. lol - Oprah.com????
:rofl:

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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
59. k n r. Her bs is totally ridiculous.
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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
62. Nope, no traction, not a ripple...
It's not 'sexy' and it's not Rev. Wright.

so it's not newsworthy..
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
64. The people of Indiana love Evan Bayh
They loved his dad and they love him... That is all I know... Mostly red state which votes for a Democratic Senator...
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katerinasmommy Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
69. Just a Gas Jockey
Hillary would never lie. She only misspeaks. Maybe Bill had to do it to avoid sniper fire
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dennysp Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. Why Does Hillary Clinton Consistently Get Away With Lying???
Not only is there the "sniper fire" and the Magnaquench lies, but take a look at the NAFTA lies! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BrPZYbCdJ4 I don't understand it. Perhaps a Clinton supporter can help me understand this. Was something "misquoted" or "taken out of context" here?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. Check upthread for Clinton supporters supporting Clinton lies. That, plus the media
coverup and VIOLA !!
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
74. K&R
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