it's true, he did not do well among southern whites

[CreekDog]

his support in southern states was predominantly from blacks.

his support in other areas largely well off liberals

experience, well, frankly, limited, only about 12 years in public life.

the guy's record is mostly just words.

not tough at all, the guy just never fights back. :shrug:

The question I have is where did he go wrong in failing to connect with southern and rural white people?
what was his failure? The failure to connect and convince really does lead many to question his effectiveness.

I am just at a loss here.

[Levgreee]

1. you're at a loss because you're ignorant, your facts aren't straight

[CreekDog]

3. please correct me then

where was i wrong? do you understand the point?

:hi:

[pnorman]

25. "do you understand the point?"

I don't recall a period since I've been with DU, when so many of my fellow DUers have so completely lost their sense of irony. Hopefully, next week will help them recover it.

CreekDog, thanks for that! For a few seconds, you almost had ME almost all afoam!

pnorman

[CreekDog]

28. thanks, I'm hoping this is one thread where I won't hear these arguments repeated

so far, so good (mostly).

[Mobius]

4. I think the OP is being sarcastic

...

[CreekDog]

9. correct

the prime arguments made against Obama could have been made about Martin Luther King Jr. Obama is not the great man that MLK was yet these arguments do not diminish Obama any more than they diminish MLK.

while it's true that some lack of votes is due to a personal political failure, it is also likely true that when you do poorly in areas and regions with a history of institutionalized racism that perhaps the failure isn't Obama's but of voters who are voting against him based on race.

[EffieBlack]

30. The MSM claim is that it's Obama's fault he's not attracting more white voters

(he's "failing to connect to them") but it's black voters fault that more of them aren't voting for Clinton ("they're voting for the black guy").

[CreekDog]

43. yes, racism is not the fault of the target

just like it wasn't a failure of African Americans in the South that they were segregated into a second class society, albeit a second class society that produced a man with more class than any man the white society that excluded him did

and the fact that some whites down there didn't get it or connect to him is their fault, not his. he was peaceful, thoughtful and even when representing one specifically wronged group, was speaking for every human being on earth as well as speaking to them and doing so with incredible dignity.

and how lucky they were that this greatly gifted man abhorred violence, sought peace and understanding and always wanted change to come from appealing to people's better angels.

our country didn't deserve a man as good as him, we kind of deserved someone who would kick our ass, but by God's grace, we got Martin, though we did not deserve it.

the changes that Martin did not live to see are making it possible for many in this society to see Obama not as a black man, but a man of special ability, unique experience and incredible insight born of his upbringing and his character.

i know i'm not voting for him because he is black, i simply like him and over time as I got to know more about him, I decided in comparison to all the candidates that he had the best combination of gifts, positions and insights. if anything, i worried that racists might never let him win, yet i could not in good conscience vote against the person i thought best for the presidency based on his color, even if i excused that by saying, "well, other people won't vote for a black man."

that's no better than not hiring a black salesman because your customers won't buy from a black man. in fact, it's worse, because you know better.

:hi:

[VolcanoJen]

42. Precisely

And that was one delighfully sardonic post that even surprised me at the payoff.

:thumbsup: CreekDog!!!! :thumbsup:

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Do you always open yer maw without yer brain being engaged?

The OP makes an excellent point in an excellent way for the candidate he's supporting. Which I suspect is the same candidate you support.

Sometimes zeal gets in the way of rational thought.

And that kinda shit will sink our collective asses come November.

[EffieBlack]

29. Whoosh!

[Mobius]

39. lol

yep

[I Have A Dream]

2. ...

:thumbsup:

[NC_Nurse]

5. Hillary won't win them over either. Most are Repubs. They always win the

South. He has a better chance than her, IMO. A lot of people down here absolutely HATE her -
for no good reason, admittedly. Of course, there are a lot of Southerners that won't vote for a
Black man either, or any Dem for that matter. Sad, but true.

[OHdem10]

40. Hillary has already won them. Other than women they are her

largest group

[Emit]

6. But, damn, the size of those crowds!

:wow:

[CreekDog]

11. those are just kool aid drinkers

and black folks who only admired him because he was black. :eyes: :sarcasm:

now everyone knows how much I fucking hate those damned arguments!:grr:

I'm white and MLK made the world better for me. So will Barack. And if he refuses to be a junkyard dog to get elected, and cannot get elected, then our nation can't be helped by one who is willing to be a junkyard dog to get elected.

sometimes tough is just plain mean.

[Emit]

44. I just started reading Dreams from My Father

I'm not very far into it -- but, so far, it is an excellent read.

[jasmine621]

33. Still, one HUGE fact remains...primaries only bring out 50% of folks

who will actually vote in the GE. Even with all the new registered voters there are many more folks we haven't heard from yet.

[CreekDog]

37. what's your point?

this thread is not about who won and lost some elections or who is going to win, just about the meme that seeks to pin the failure to win solely on the candidate himself.

[graycem]

7. Because..

rural working class whites in southern states = Republicans

[CreekDog]

17. but we might have a shot at getting the votes of their children

who just can't come up with reasons to hate black people.

[graycem]

32. Yes we will,

I know because I'm one of them. I was born and raised in Louisiana, my father, though not a rabid racist has said a racial slur on more than one occasion that made me flinch. He owned guns and voted for Reagan, but then he also voted for Bill Clinton, so he has no party loyalty, just easily swayed. My mother was cut from a different cloth, probably because she grew up in a tiny town, poor as dirt, right along with the black children, she was just as irrelevant as they were to anyone outside of their community. She is nothing but a faithful Democrat and a genuinely great person who understands and has empathy for all people. Because of her wisdom and her huge heart, she led me, and I chose to go down a different path. Each generation gets a little better in my opinion. She's also a very enthusiastic Obama supporter. :)

[Yossariant]

8. The "black vote" cannot deliver the South to the Democrats. The GOP wins the South.

:think:

[leftofcool]

13. And the midwest and the Dakotas

[NJSecularist]

15. And the Rust Belt. n/t

[TahitiNut]

27. There it is again! Wow!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5751295

:applause:

[Webster Green]

10. "the guy's record is mostly just words"

I love the guy's words. That's the main reason I'm voting for him. I like what he has to say, and I believe he will shake things up a bit.

:smoke:

[CreekDog]

14. me too

i don't recall LBJ appealing to racists in order to get elected and he was from Texas.

guess he was pretty elite huh?

[rwheeler31]

12. Psssst he's black.

Great post.

[Thickasabrick]

16. I'm white, I'm southern and I get to vote for him on Tuesday. Whoohoo!!!!

[Aloha Spirit]

18. slam dunk!

[Hutzpa]

delete - double post

[Hutzpa]

19. Is it true that people from California

tend to act weired, so I've been told.....:shrug:

[OHdem10]

20. You are correct on some issues. It is more middle class working

class white people. Today on Hardball Chris Matthews, H.Finemand and
Brownstein reviewed all of Obama's races.

He does have a problem connecting with White Working Class 50 K a year
and under. which is a huge segment of society.

If you could view the transcript at Msnbc.Hardball.com you would
find it most helpful I am sure.

Look, I voted and supported Senator Kerry. So when I say this I am
trying to be helpful. Around young people they seem to connect.
The more reserved style can be interpreted as cool and distant.
Kerry had this problem and sometimes I see this in Obama. The Hardball
transcript should be helpful.

[CreekDog]

22. actually, i'm not interested

i didn't post a photo of Martin Luther King Jr. in order to give creedence to any of those arguments.

and when the talking heads can't simply say that some whites are racist (not all that voted against him) and that is why he can't connect with them, then they aren't worth listening to.

what the hell other country decides it's elections based on who the candidate has as a pastor? what the hell other country has a candidate sink in the polls because he said some people are bitter? what the hell other country has a frontrunner fall behind because they don't seem like a regular fellow like their multimillionaire opponents.

this nation should be proud that it produces and elevates people like Obama.

but this nation should be ashamed at the shallowness of its politics.

and worst of all, this nation should be ashamed that people claim not to know much about politics and wear ignorance of history and issues as a badge of honor. anywhere else it would be seen as the failure to be a good and patriotic citizen that it is. hell, it's worse than that, this describes our current president.

[bigwillq]

21. I like this post.

That's why I am Kicking and Recking it. :)

[Mobius]

24. K & R

:D

[Coexist]

26. I like your post.

[EffieBlack]

31. Off to the Greatest Page you go!

[cascadiance]

34. I guess 80% of the voters in Idaho must be blacks or well educated liberals!

:eyes:

[CreekDog]

41. they weren't counted among the blacks and well educated liberals

instead, they were counted among the states that didn't count. :think:

[ms liberty]

35. Some people might need a sarcasm smilie. I, however, am not one of them...

And I - a southern, middle class white woman - voted early here in NC, for Obama.

I like your post. K&R

[goclark]

36. I liked the post as well nt

A person has to have their eyes wide open to "get it."

[kentuck]

38. 40% of the whites in GA voted for Obama...

He won overwhelmingly!