This is Why Obama will lose

[CatnHat]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/58_say_obama_denounced_wright_for_political_convenience_not_outrage

If the democrats nominate Obama, McCain will win. It's that simple. 58% of voters polled said that Obama's distancing himself with his pastor was just political posturing. This guy is just another politician. Trouble is, the democrats are in a real mess now. If voters knew then what they know about Obama now; the guy wouldn't have lasted as long as Edwards. So, if anyone is to blame about this mess, thank Mr. Obama, for not being straight with American voters. What a shame.

[quantass]

1. America cares more about Economy and things that matter than silly season

McCain will continue to destroy America and i just cant imagine Americans are so dumb that they would rather settle with a distraous lifehood than to nominate someone that will bring real positive change into their lives...

There is no chance they will vote McCain and get another bush!

And lets not forget Hillarys unfavorable and untrustworthiness by america....America doesnt believe she will do what she says...says to me she is worthless in office and McCain is more trustworthy to help america...

[CatnHat]

2. In the GE

character matters. Always has. Why do you think GW Bush won---not on policy, but because first he was "compassionate" conservative and the second time around "old buddy". That's what wins elections. Everyone knows about about the issues, Clinton and Obama are almost the same when it comes to issues; it will come down again and again about Obama character, and now, it looks like he is totally unelectable. The super-delegates know this, why don't you.

If Obama and his campaign are so arrogant even to suggest that character is a silly issue--Obama is surely not ready to become the democratic nominee.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

7. Hillary robo call Clinton has character? Her campaign doesn't even pay its bills, Tuzla anyone?

Her campaign is broke,

[CatnHat]

12. Being broke

has nothing to do with character. I know people who have exceptional character and are not rich. What's you point. Obama is not "outraged"-he's just sorry he got caught in a bad situation, and not until Rev. Wright called him a politician, did Obama call him out. Does Obama really believe that the American voters are that stupid, again being duped. Guess so, after all we are bitter and cling to religion and . . . What a uniter, this guy has really divided the party, to the point of losing this November.

[Egnever]

60. running up bills with no money to pay for them has everything to do with character

wtf are you talking about?

Not to mention the fact that its exactly that sort of behavior that is getting us into the hot water we are in now.

[Mezzo]

38. and Barack Harry and Louise Obama has integrity? Please.

:rofl:

[Seeker30]

41. Half Obama supporters don't pay their bills either

They're not old enough to have any.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. Rush Limbaugh has a GOTV effort for Hillary

Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Richard Mellon Scaife are propping her up,

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

9. Maggie Williams and Bill's former Chief of Staff are tied to the illegal robo calls in NC,

Her former chief of staff and campaign manager Maggie Williams and Bill's former Chief of Staff are tied to the illegal robo calls in NC,

[graycem]

26. Yeah... about that

That's your opinion. I happen to think you're biased. I see Obama and I see that likeable, charasmatic, intelligent, principled leader with new ideas. In Hillary, I see cynicism, sarcasm, untruthfulness, etc. In fact, more people find her dishonest/untrustworthy (ranging from the 50s - 60%). So I would think it's a matter of our own personal bias. The super-delegates know this too.

[Prophet 451]

3. "i just cant imagine Americans are so dumb"

I can. This is a nation where over half don't believe in evolution. I know that not all Americans are that stupid but there are a lot of stupid people in your country. The annoying bit is that it's the stupid people who are most likely to vote.

[True_Blue]

16. Obama supporters are so much smarter than everyone else

LOL! They're the only ones that believe Obama never heard any of Rev Wright's sermons over the last 20 yrs.

[Prophet 451]

17. Huh?

First off, I actually am a fair bit smarter than most people. I have the certificates, evaluations and MENSA membership to prove it. On my medication, my IQ is between 152 and 155. Off my meds, you can add twenty points to that but I'd be likely to kill myself within days.

Secondly, Obama probably heard loads of Rev. Wright's sermons. So what? Yes, Wright said "God damn America", Michelle Obama said something like she'd never been proud of her country before. Again, so what? Here (England), that kind of comment wouldn't raise an eyebrow. One possible definition of nationalism is the pressure to be proud of your country simply because it exists. I'm rather pleased that Obama has been exposed to a viewpoint different from the reigning one that the USA is god's gift to the world.

Thirdly and finally, your post smacks of the kind of "I know my place" anti-intellectualism that actively resents anyone smarter. There are good reasons to support either candidate or to not support them, no-one's arguing that but anti-intellectualism is not one of them.

[True_Blue]

20. Obama's supporters are so annoying

I'm sick of Obama and his supporters holier than thou attitude.

[Prophet 451]

21. You aren't making any sense

You haven't addressed any of the points I raised, simply reiterated that you hate Obama and his supporters for some vague reason.

You resent "elitists" so you choose to vote for the people most like yourself. We've all seen where that ends up.

[True_Blue]

49. Doesn't everyone?

Don't most people tend to vote for the candidate that care about the same issues they do?

[DemVet]

42. I don't...

...believe in evolution as taught in schools...at least not the amoebe to chimp to human theory.

I guess us dummies who don't believe in evolution who believe the Rev. Wright fiasco was a character issue will just have to stick together, huh?

[Prophet 451]

45. Guess you will n/t

[Seeker30]

40. How the hell do you know what America believes? You dont even live here

Oh and by the way, did ya find that link where you claimed Edwards is disgusted with Clinton?

[terrell9584]

46. The problem with that theory is

Is we have seen that Obama has a problem with certain segments of the white population. At one point he did not have them. He fell into a trap the Clintons had set, they wanted him and needed him to discuss race, because as long as race was off the table, he was post-racial. Once the post-racial screen was stripped in Philadelphia, his problems began.

I have always believed that he gave a brilliant speech, but that is not the speech you give to a country that is on edge where your side dearly needs to win the election and can't afford to give the opposition any trump card.

It's true that Clinton helped bring it up, but he didn't have to fall for it. It was his oppurtunity to shine. He should have clearly said that race is off limits, my color has nothing to do with what kind of president i would be, and then proceeded to talk about whatever. He didn't do that. If he loses the Presidency, that should be the moment that every historian points to, because it was a bad speech tactically when looking at how black candidates have won significant white voters in the South. When they have, it is always because they neutralize race, relegate to unimportance, instead of being the black person running for office, they become a person running for office, who happens to be black. The two may sound the same, but structure means everything. Look at Wilder in Virginia and Baker in Georgia, they did what they did because they took race off the table, they came to the public on their merits and asked to be elected, because talking about race would have been their political death knell.


Americans aren't going to vote for trustworthyness this year. Trustworthyness is something that usually matters when the country is not going down the tubes. Everyone remembers Carter's term and that they elected him because he was a nice and decent guy. McCain's character issue is not that people trust him, its that they feel they owe him, especially a sizable part of the baby boomer population that did not go to Vietnam and may have even said horrible things about soldiers in protests, even as someone like McCain was voluntarily undergoing torture in Hanoi. That's what its about, the guilt that some baby boomers may be feeling, especially some of those who lost family and friends in Vietnam


The primary has to play itself out.

[True_Blue]

4. Another reason

We'll lose the Hispanic votes. McCain is popular with the Hispanic community but not nearly as popular as Hillary.

[bluestateguy]

5. Rasmussen polls are no longer on my radar screen

He's an arch conservative who has an agenda. He cooks his books.

Pollsters are very scummy people in general.

[emilyg]

11. ...

Poll Date Sample Obama Clinton Spread
RCP Average 04/23 - 05/01 -- 45.3 44.0 Obama +1.3
Gallup Tracking 04/29 - 05/01 1254 V 46 48 Clinton +2.0
Rasmussen Tracking 04/28

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

6. the media and GOP are holding back attacks on Hillary while they endorse her

Half of the country finds her despicable.

Her name at the top of the ticket means killing the down ticket.

More grid lock, nothing accomplished, but she and bill would make more money
peddling influence.

[goldcanyonaz]

10. How dare you post this on the Obama Underground!

[CatnHat]

13. I know

This has become a mini-Obama headquarters, along with MSNBC. One thing about Obama and his supporters, they sure don't take lightly to anyone (including democrats)who disagrees with them.. They sure show antipathy to those who don't think like them. Hummmm--maybe that's what Obama was trying to say in San Francisco confusing himself and his supporters to hard working middle class people. Makes one wonder.

[Freedom Train]

19. K&R for the OP!

And your post was right on the money too!

[GreenTea]

14. Wake up! Sounds like republican rhetoric! Support the Dem!!

Like bullshit rioting in Denver...What are you afraid of?

[CatnHat]

15. I am

a democrat; and offended by the way other democrats are treated on this forum who don't support Obama. The sheer arrogance of Obama and his supporters is obvious. That's why many democrats have left this forum. Obama supporters are worse than republican's, calling Clinton every name in the book, calling Hillary supporters names, and just pure ignorant. So continue with your Obama underground, no one really gives a shit anymore, many democrats will simply not vote. That's the damage Obama and his supporters have done to the party.

[sushi]

29. Not only arrogant

but also inconsiderate! They claim to be highly educated. Well, I would expect highly educated people to be pleasant and considerate of other people's opinions, and not namecall.

[PurityOfEssence]

58. Why the fuck do so many equate educational attainment with intelligence, sense, civility or manners?

Sorry, I'm not so mad at you as I am at the tiresome and childish equation made here.

In many cases, attainment of advanced degrees is nothing more than compensation to PROVE how smart one is, and compensation like this often comes from a valid, nagging fear or ordinariness or even mediocrity. Credential craving is often the obsession of those who need some form of superiority, and this is hardly the stuff of the pluralist or cheery communal type.

There have been plenty of blockheaded posts by those huffing about their credentials, and there have been plenty of downright perspicacious ones from those who don't give the proverbial two pins about such achievements.

If anyone's going to claim that intelligence is a key to understanding Obama, then I'll rob some time from my day to tangle with that scatterbrained snottiness: the guy play simplistic, rote politics of the most vague and emotional kind, carefully maneuvering and positioning himself while ducking most difficult stands. There's nothing unconventional, new or daring about his approach, and there's nothing complex or nuanced there, either. He plays to the cheapest of the cheap seats, and by his supporters stroking each other's vanity, somehow sustains a coterie of self-congratulatory silliness.

[hokies4ever]

18. and Hillary not divorcing Slick Willie is political posturing as well

NEXT!

[Prophet 451]

22. Unfair

I'm supporting Obama but speculation on the state of the Clinton's marriage should be off-limits, it's none of our business.

[Political Heretic]

23. No more off limits than someone's former pastor.

Period.

[Prophet 451]

25. Disagree, sort-of

Effectively, I would argue that Rev Wright was a legitimate question once. As soon as Obama said "we disagree on this one", everyone should have moved on. It's a fine line but there needs to be some kind of line between the candidate's public and private lives. The state of the Clinton's marriage (or the Obama's marriage, for that matter) should be a private matter. Now, you could argue that the sermon at Obama's church is part of his private life as well...

[JTFrog]

30. None of our business?

Why would we think he'd treat women who were total strangers (half of we the people) better than he'd treat his wife or his intern?

Why are we always told we have to pretend that Bill's womanizing is irrelevant or off-limits?

I think it's just as relevant and fair game as asking McCain why he calls his wife a c***.

[Prophet 451]

31. Was JFK bad for women?

It's a reasonable comparison. Jack Kennedy screwed around so much, he was nicknamed "Jack The Zipper" and neither of them is unique in cheating on their wives while in office. How a politician conducts their private life often has little relation to the only thing that matters, how they'd run the country.

[sushi]

33. Exactly!

Unfortunately, a lot of men cheat. Women do too!!! If a couple decide to stay together after one of them cheats, hey, it isn't any of our business!

Btw, more and more people are just living together. Sometimes I think marriage is obsolete, but this is for another discussion.

[sushi]

24. "Man of God is hell for Obama"

"Already one super delegate - one of the almost 800 mandarins who will decide the Democratic presidential nominee because neither candidate will win the elected delegate vote - has backed away from her endorsement of Senator Obama, principally because of the recent outbursts of Reverend Jeremiah Wright."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23630046-5013948,00.html

[JTFrog]

27. She apparently isn't a big fan of the Constitution.

Any elected official that says they will not support Obama because he's been issued some sort of religious test should be stripped of their post or voted out of office as soon as possible.

[sushi]

32. No!

Nothing to do with religion. She is concerned that BHO... "who already struggles to connect with the white rural and working classes, may be mortally wounded with respect to this vital demographic in a general election."

[CreekDog]

28. you mean Americans refuse to elect a politician?

that means every candidate will lose! :dilemma:

and in 1992, when Bill Clinton went on 60 Minutes to deal with the Gennifer Flowers thing, the voters didn't think that was political and he ended up losing.

you genius!

[progressoid]

34. O.M.G!!! He's a politician? I had no idea!

If you are right, then Obama should do something political, like run for a political office of some sort.

:eyes:

Sweet Jeebus the dumb is thick around here somethimes.

[RBInMaine]

35. Oh my. It is SILLY SEASON on DU.

[eridani]

36. If the Dems nominate Clinton, McCain will win. She's already made most of his ads for him

No Dem who voted for IWR can win. Out comes the flip-flop argument, and Clinton has now answer.

[OmahaBlueDog]

54. That works both ways

McCain's mouth has been on full automatic. The recent "war for oil" comment is just a preview of what to expect from the Stupid Talk Express.

The IWR is a great intra-Dem talking point, but in the end, in the GE most Dems and Indys (and anti-war Republicans) are going to care on how a candidate will get us out of the war -- not how they were suckered into voting for it.

[Double T]

37. Agreed.

BO is a fraud many times over; perfect example of a politician saying ANYTHING to get elected.

[Lerkfish]

39. polls are not your friend. I will explain the fallacy in this conclusion

not that you will probably listen or understand.

Here's the difference, in this case, between a poll and an election.


This poll is being conducted while McCain is the certain nominee and Clinton and Obama are vying for the position. Republicans do not have choose or think anything beyond "R".
Democrats have strong loyalties to either Clinton or Obama, and therefore, they are going to answer for either one, BEFORE THE NOMINEE IS SELECTED.

What a poll of this type does, is dramatically ignore supporters for Clinton or Obama that will go for the other candidate ONCE THE DUST SETTLES.

This kind of matchup poll, in this currect dynamic, is essentially dividing the democrats and unifying the republicans. At best, it MIGHT show you how DEMOCRATS feel about their chosen candidate in a matchup against McCain, IT IS NOT a valid indicator for general election at all. The only valid indicating polls will be AFTER the primary is over, and you THEN compare the winner against McCain.


sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine when people manipulate, or are manipulated by polls set up to arrive at a wrong conclusion from data.

[mmonk]

43. If Hillary is nominated based on Obama being turned into Wright,

the party will lose in November. Forgiveness will not be there.

[onenote]

44. over 50 percent of the population has a unfavorable view of HRC

How does she win?

THe answer is that predictions about the GE at this point are utterly and completely worthless. Guesses pulled from a hat, so to speak. Either could win. Either could lose. You can't predict a future with so many unknowns.

What is known is that HRC has, for more than a decade, had high unfavorability ratings with a very large portion of the public. There is no reason to think that is going to get any better. She's a known entity. Obama is, relatively speaking, still not that well known to a large portion of the electorate. His favorability numbers, which are still higher than HRC's despite Wright etc., can go either way. I don't see them getting worse than HRC's, but they could definitely get better as people see more of him.

[Bensthename]

47. GOP talking point = Obama cant beat McCain but Hillary can.

But when you listen to them talk frankly they are licking their lips ready to rip into the candidate with highest negatives in history with an impeached president as her husband..

[nicknyc]

48. NOBAMA

N/OBAMA can not win NY/NJ/PA/OH/FL/NC/SC and hence he will lose.

[Mooney]

53. Shouldn't you be posting links about how all Kenyans are terrorists?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5795823

[Joe the Revelator]

50. The Wright issue is dead

Get that through your head, and get on board with getting a democrat elected. Unless you don't like democrats.

[TheDudeAbides]

51. This is not the "Democratic" Party

we can't even hold an election based on a Democratic process.
Until new, fair elections are held in FL and MI, this party is a joke
and should change it's name.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Democracy.

[OmahaBlueDog]

56. Ok, believe that at your peril

Even if Obama is nominated, that issue is with him through November.

[ecstatic]

52. 1) Is Hillary a politician? 2) Can she win without the black vote? nt

[OmahaBlueDog]

55. Watch Mississippi

Two special elections are being held in Mississippi, and the GOP is staking their campaign on associating the Dem candidates with Obama and Pelosi. It's a "they're just too liberal theme", but in Mississippi, the implication is clearly "you don't want these representatives and a black president."

I'd say these races will be interesting litmus tests on Obama's electability.

[Milo_Bloom]

57. LMAO!

And the 100% of people who saw Clinton lie about the IWR, sniper fire and NAFTA for political purposes don't think she is a politician.

[TragedyandHope]

59. In your dreams

But go ahead and dream. I suppose it's all you've got left.

[Honeycombe8]

61. It's so lame, these poll-pushing posts that Hillbots keep posting. Don't you...

Don't you have anything positive to say about why your candidate will win? Nothing? No little thing that makes it reasonable that she should be the nominee?

(sounds of crickets)

Sad. BTW...the polls go up and down daily...and there are a million polls. There is, simply, some poll out there in hinterland to "prove" any point whatsoever. That isn't a good enough reason for your candidate to win.

Assignment: Get your pen and paper out, and try to list several things about your candidate that makes it right that the voters should vote her as the nominee.