Check the blogs, if HRC wins the nom, many many thinking dems who are fed up,

[Windy]

sick of the politics of destruction, are going to stay home. They don't see any difference between Clinton and McCain and feel that she is setting the tone for continued dirty politics which skirts the important issues, well into the future. They will not be rewarding her behavior by voting for her in November if she wins the nomination as the result of a perceived gutter campaign.

I've read commentary in Huff Po, ABC Blogs, CBS blogs, CNN, Kos, and here.

We not only will lose the general if she gets the nomination, we will lose down ticket elections as well.

Given Bush's abysmal aproval ratings, 72%, the lowest in recorded history, you can bet that McCain will return to his moderate positions in the general election and will distance himself from Bush. He will re-gain independents in HRC is the nominee. She voted for the war and for Kyl Lieberman so she will be unable to really distinguish her policies from McCain unlike Obama.

The democratic party is its own worst enemy. I just hope the superdelegates are paying attention to the blogs. It may help them to decide.

[countingbluecars]

1. The GOP is counting on it. eom

[Mist]

6. Here's my idea: the GOP knows this is a matter of "which party will

have more voters stay home?" They know many cons won't vote for McCain, so they'd really like the Dem nominee to be ever more off-putting.

[KaptBunnyPants]

37. They are counting on the Dems committing suicide by nominating the Primary loser?

Seems like a bad plan to me. All it takes to stop that plan is for the Democratic leadership to follow their own rules and ideology.

[OmahaBlueDog]

2. At this point, either nominee will cause many to sit out

OTOH, I don't think Evangelicals are too fired up to vote for McSame, so it may all wash out.

[Windy]

3. I disagree, I think the obama supporters will make more of a difference.

The vitriol against Obama has been over the top by Clinton. The Blumenthal revelations are very troubling.

Clinton has caused unbelievable division within her own party. Can you imagine what will happen if she is president!

[OmahaBlueDog]

7. I think either could do well as President

It takes two to cause partisan divide. I think a sizable chunk of African Americans and hard-core anti war supporters stay ome/vote Nader if HRC is nominated, but I think a sizable chunk of Women voters (especially older women) and blue collar dems stay home or vote McSame if Obama is nominated.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Butch350]

51. 7. I think either could do well as President

I am an Obama supporter - I will not stay home if Hillary is nominated. I will vote McCain and then every
election there after I will vote republican.

I am an AA and some of the attacks by the clinton campaign is beginning to sour my stomach. The Clintons
give me the impression that they are trying to turn the primaries into a WHITE against BLACK vote.

I firmly believe that Barack wants to represent ALL AMERICANS not just BLACK AMERICANS.

And the Rev Wright controversy has just been blown way out of proportion and the MSM just won't let it rest.

Yes Sir, that republican party is looking mighty good right about now. At least with the Repubs I know what
I'm gonna get!

[PoliticalAmazon]

23. ITA. For me, there is no going back with the Clintons. I will, forever more....

...work against her in any political contest.

Fortunately, in this election cycle, by working for someone I believe in (Obama) I can also work against Clinton. It's a two-fer for me.

[StevieM]

30. Obama has caused division within the party by trashing our magnificent record in the 90s

He has run a very hateful camapaign, which will cost him the election if nominated.

Steve

[solidguild]

41. Would that include NAFTA and Telecom Act of 96, or is Hillary not taking credit for those this week?

:eyes:

[Oleladylib]

4. nope I think the white working male will vote for McC. if Obama is the candidate.

and they would NEVER admit it!

[dana_b]

5. well then we're all screwed

we need the African-Americans, we need the white working males, the middle aged white women,the young, Asians, Latinos, GLBTs... everyone! Can only a white guy win? Is that what we're saying here? I just don't want to believe that but you may be right. Now I'm bummed.

[peaches2003]

20. Probably so

I really thought we were past the racial divide in this country, but probably not. That's the reason for the whole overdone Wright mess and the constant running of his sermons and speeches on tv. Corporate America had to make Obama 'black' and a threat to white America because of his association with Wright. Rural blue-collar voters still mean racists.

[BlueCaliDem]

22. I hope those "white working males" are mostly under 42. They're going to need more bodies...

...for McSame's 100+ year war/occupation and believe me, it's not going to take long for McSame to try to fist a mandatory draft through for those wars.

After all, voting for him is comparable to agreeing with his warmongering policies, right?

On the bright side? With more going off and dying for the rich, jobs will open up and we can cut unemployment at least in half. :sarcasm:

[donheld]

8. IMHO that's 100% stupid

What a way to fight things, just give up and let the republicans rule uncontested.

[Windy]

11. Sorry, but I can't in good conscious vote for someone like HRC to be president

I'll let the rest of you do it. I can't sacrifice my principals. I don't think that she is any better than McCain...


She's banking on people like you to give her a pass and that is why her dirty tactics continue and are getting worse.

[donheld]

16. I think you know better

Hillary has a very progressive record and you know it. I support Barack too, but must be honest about Hillary's record. She's saying a lot of things right now to get elected, but I would bet most anything she will be much better than McCain. We have no reason to doubt McCain will do what the right tells him to do. He will govern based on his record. Hillary, just the same, will govern based on her record.

Let me thank you in advance for an end to Roe v Wade among other things. Is that what your conscience is allowing? Some of you have messed up consciences. You may have questions about Hillary, but you bloody well know what McCain will do.

[Windy]

28. I don't find her record with regard to foreign policy progressive and that will trickle down to

economics.

She is NOT that progressive.

Her stance on war will kill many people in the long run...it already has.

[liberaldem4ever]

21. You are exactly right

To begin with, I believe Obama has already earned the Dem nomination. But if Hillary manages to steal the nom from him, I will vote for Dems on the rest of the ballot, but I'll write in Obama for president. I cannot in good conscience vote for a Dem who has smeared another Dem with lies and RW manipulations. Hillary is counting on us to be good little sheep and vote for her no matter what dirty tricks she does to get the nomination. She won't get my vote.

[Windy]

29. Yes, I am planning on writing in Obama and voting down ticket for dems...n/t

[ribrepin]

32. I won't vote for Clinton because of her dirty tricks

The final straw that broke my back was her comments on O'Reilly about "God Bless Us Rich People". She sounded like a member of "The Club for Growth". Until then, I would have held my nose and voted for her because of supreme court nominations.

I'll vote straight Democrat except for President if she manages to get the nomination. I'll either write in Joe Biden or Obama. Maybe I'll even vote Socialist.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. They're not tricks. They're who she is.

[paulk]

48. but you can, "in good conscious", let another Republican

become President? You, by your own admission an older woman, are perfectly content to saddle the next generation with a right wing Supreme Court? A hundred years in Iraq? No universal healthcare of any kind? As long as your "principals" aren't sacrificed?

Aren't you fucking special...

[Captain Hilts]

10. Weblogs, like DU are not at all representative of the general population of Democrats. nt

[Windy]

12. No, but the people that pay attention and are engaged are the ones who generally vote.

fact is fact

[Captain Hilts]

39. The Internet skews young and it skews male. Older women are more high percentage voters.

[Zachstar]

44. And what percentage do you think they will break for McCain?

Do you think Clinton is going to win by holding on to McCain advantages in the GE?

Military Will likely break for McCain when faced with a Choice between Clinton and McCain

Netroots will likely break for McCain

Etc... Etc...

[JanErikFl]

13. The blogs are Obama land, Hillary core base are dems and not new college grads voters

[TheDoorbellRang]

25. If you did a poll on DU of Obama supporters here by age

I think you'd be surprised.

[Adelante]

56. Dead to us

[PBS Poll-435]

14. The blogs are not an accurate cross section of anything.

I hope the SDs are out talking to real, live people.

[Captain Hilts]

40. Blogs skew young and male. Voters skew older and female.

This is also why Obama won caucuses and Clinton primaries. Caucuses reward intensity and youth. Primaries are easier for older and less intensive people to participate.

[Solon]

15. So I guess people will stop complaining about Nader saying there was no difference...

between Bush and Gore? That makes about as much sense as staying home because you don't see a difference between Hillary and McCain.

[Zachstar]

45. I see a difference.

McCain actually fought. He has seen ALOT of crap up close and personal.

[Triana]

17. You can count ME as one of those dems - I have NO use for Hillary McCain

They're BOTH Republican and they BOTH represent continued dirty politics which skirts the important issues, well into the future.


WE WILL LOSE if she is the nom because:

1. THE REPUBLICANS HATE HER LIKE THEY HATE NO ONE ELSE - been wanting to destroy the Clintons for DECADES
2. SHE IS THE WEAKEST CANDIDATE AND THEY KNOW THAT - see Rush Limbaugh
3. MANY MANY DEMOCRATS WILL NOT VOTE FOR HER - Me and MANY MANY OTHERS

[backwoodsbob]

62. Obama supporter here

IF Hillary wins this...and she won't..vote for her.The downticket is important.

Every voter who would stay home doesn't just hurt the prez candidate,they hurt all the state and locals.

That goes for you Hillary supporters too.If you stay home and not vote because of Obama you hurt your state and local dems as well as Obama.

[meow mix]

18. i wont stay home, but i will withdraw from the party after voting for hillary.

itll be the very next thing i do.

[NJSecularist]

19. The netroots are not representative of the entire Democratic party. Thank goodness. n/t

[Zachstar]

42. No it is not but its support Clinton will need to defeat McCain.

One of Clinton's major voting bases will go without a doubt to McCain if she is nominated.

The NetRoots will go to Ron Paul who himself will likely go for McCain because he does not want the Clinton Machine in the white house.

Younger ones who have taken an interest this time around with Obama will likely just stop caring afterwards. With some going to McCain.

The Republicans will be quick to take the Netroots back and add that to their advantages. And BTW the netroots is what they will use to spew more of Clinton's past for the voters to see. The past they have been working on finding info about for the past decade.

As for defending against it? I got better things to do. Like Playing Video games and Perhaps reading a few books? I might find it funny actually.

I do not plan to support Clinton in the GE. And I am sure alot of people feel the same way.

And no I do not give a crap about Supreme Court decisions afterwards because if Clinton cared about them she would be working hard to get Obama and the downticket races elected by now. Not dragging a Nearly Obvious race on to the convention where things will get even worse for democrats.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. nah, it's a lot of bluster

each candidate will cause some voters to stay home. This attempt at blackmail is weak.

[2rth2pwr]

26. Your whole post makes as much sense as your 72% approval number for b*sh.

[Blomst]

27. You are either for me or against me....

The way Hillary has challenged the Democratic party to choose sides in the her push for the gas tax holiday, and to, somehow, insinuate that anyone not for her proposal is against the people, and for the oil companies, is extremely divisive. I shudder to think how she would run this country as a president with that kind of bullying and manipulative attitude. We will see four or eight more years of threats, intimidation, and uncompromising fanatical decision making by an out-of-touch president in the shape of Hillary Clinton, if she gets as far as the presidency. It's why many people would rather stay home than vote for her.

[jefferson_dem]

31. That's what the Repugs and the Media are trying with all their might to engineer.

The "say anything, do anything" candidate herself is more than happy to collude along with them.

I can't believe so many of Hillary's supporters are allowing themselves to be played like that.

[nichomachus]

33. There are significant difrerences between Hillary and McCain

McCain is just a batshit crazy old man who can't remember where the bathroom is. He will make it easy for the fascists to continue the takeover of the country. Also, if he is elected, he will not finish his first term. So, it's important to look at who the VP is. He will be the president for two and a half terms. But while McCain is in office, he will be totally unpredictable -- a very dangerous situation for everyone, us and the fascists. About the worst situation you can be faced with is dealing with an unpredictable and angry person.

Hillary, while problematic for progressives, is cold and calculating. She will do what she needs to do to keep her hand on the levers of power -- even if that means selling her supporters downriver. But, she will need to maintain the pretense of being a Democrat. So, that will slow down the fascists a little bit. When all is said and done, she is fairly predictable, which is probably why the right wing likes her. They know what makes her tick and they know what they have to do to get her to comply. Fortunately, so do we. So, it would be easier to try to outmaneuver her. It's much easier to deal with a rational and predictable person, even if that person is working against you.

[Zachstar]

46. No thanks.

[Arkansas Granny]

34. The current polls do not support your conclusions.

RCP Average: Clinton - 47% McCain - 43.9%
Obama - 45.5% McCain - 45.4%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

Gallup Tracking: McCain - 46% Clinton - 45%
McCain - 48% Obama - 42%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106966/Gallup-Daily-McCain-Moves-Point-Lead-Over-Obama.aspx

Rasmussen Reports: Clinton - 45% McCain - 44%
Obama - 43% McCain - 48%

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

[windbreeze]

35. Then we deserve just what we get....WE CANNOT ALLOW this to happen on election day...

There is racism, and there is sexism...which is worse, I don't know..both WILL have an effect in Nov..but that isn't the only thing that will...WE CANNOT ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE HERDED into doing what the GOP WANTS, and vote for McCain!!no matter which of our candidates is the nominee....I suggest we pay close attention to his VP choice...(and ask yourself how happy you'd be with that person as president!!)...have they succeeded in pitting the factions within the Democratic party against each other...to the point that we would destroy our chances at electing a Democratic president??? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!!!! Now I AM disgusted...WHAT is it we don't understand???? IS it possible, that we have already forgotten what the last 8 years have done to this country????We WANT more of the same, or worse???? WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, WE WILL HAVE TO PULL TOGETHER, and anyone who can't or refuses to see that, is BLIND!!...We need to get a grip here....wb

[gristy]

36. If Clinton wins the nomination??

How is that going to happen? Please explain it to me.

[RestoreGore]

38. Well if "the blogs" say it it must be true

Because Republicans never go on the Internet parading as Democrats to type divisive crap.

[Yossariant]

43. "Thinking" Dems?!?! Oh, the irony!

:rofl:

[aquarius dawning]

47. haven't you heard, Hillary does better against McCain than Obama.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

[WilliamPitt]

49. ANYONE who stays home for ANY REASON

other than death, dismemberment or wild llama attack should have a brain transplant; i.e. transplant their head out of their ass.

[Marrah_G]

61. Best thing I have read here in a long time!

:toast:

[DinahMoeHum]

67. Amen, brother! Methinks you just got nominated for a DUzy Award

for that remark.

:toast::kick::toast:

[rodeodance]

50. check the Left blogs. they were the first to push the fake video on Fridday

[Maribelle]

52. Huff Po, ABC Blogs, CBS blogs, CNN, Kos?????

ha ha ha The hate-Hillary blogcult?

Do you ever review non-Hillary-hating sites?

[Zachstar]

54. Insult Insult Insult does anyone wonder why McCain will get the netroots support?

If all yall ever do is insult the blogs don't expect them to support Clinton in the GE.

[Maribelle]

55. I'm sorry you feel the truth is an insult to the blogcult.

And here I thought all along they were wearing their Hillary hate as a badge of courage.

[Zachstar]

58. What truth? Your opinion?

[TBF]

57. I won't stay home - I'll vote for Nadar. I hope many people do.

[Zachstar]

59. If you vote for him he will be back later so just write in Obama.

[TBF]

66. Are write ins allowed with the machines? If so I will do it.

[MaineDem]

60. Because the blogs are indicative of all Americans?

I think not.

[Hepburn]

63. Last evening I was out to dinner with a Reagan Repubbie friend.

We usually do NOT discuss politics for the obvious reasons ~~ but last night he told me how much he dislikes McCain ~~ too old, too hawk, etc. And he told me how he absolutely HATES Hillary ~~ we are talking waaaaaaay beyond dislike. He said if Hillary is the nom, he will hold his nose and vote McCain. However...if Obama is the Dem nom, he will vote for Obama.

We are doomed if Hilly is the nominee. People hate her ~~ and those people are not just the Pubbies. There are Dems like me who absolutely cannot stand her.

[dcindian]

64. If the supers steal this election from the people.

I would bet money the Republicans will win by a landslide. Hillary will not only not win any states but she will ensure that Mcshame will be the first president ever elected with an approval rating less then Bush.

I feel sadden to say this. I would guess that the permanent Republican majority will come to pass as Democrats leave the party in untold numbers.

[Marie26]

65. If Obama wins,

there are many Clinton supporters who won't vote for him in the election either. It's actually a higher percentage in PA. Democrats have become very polarized & IMO that's one reason why this will have to end up a unity ticket.

[Raejeanowl]

68. I Think This Cuts Both Ways

Not at ALL convinced that the GOP has officially and collectively decided which is the "easier" target for McCain to take out in the GE, but you know they've had one of them in their sights for a much longer time, with more ammunition, and they haven't taken her out yet.

I personally don't think she would lose the GE short of another election theft; with Obama, it's more a matter of not knowing what innovative manner of tricks are planned for him rather than a lack of reasonable confidence he could take it under his own power.

We can all rest assured that at least the Republicans do see a difference between her and McCain, and we'd be well-advised to keep that in mind. Perhaps it makes more sense to respond to this perception you're talking about, i.e., one or the other being beatable by McCain-by ensuring that the nominee (whatever the superdelegates do or don't do) carries the vote.