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On March 18: No, I cannot renounce my pastor. On April 29: Yes, I can. -Is the bottom falling out?

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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:27 PM
Original message
On March 18: No, I cannot renounce my pastor. On April 29: Yes, I can. -Is the bottom falling out?
Edited on Sat May-03-08 12:41 PM by 2rth2pwr
Is the bottom falling out for Barack Obama? It's too early to say that, but there are some disturbing signs. On the positive side, superdelegates still are breaking his way. Rep. Baron Hill, whose southern Indiana district almost certainly will vote for Hillary Clinton, came out for Obama. So did fellow Hoosier Joe Andrew, who previously endorsed Clinton and who was named Democratic national chairman by Bill Clinton in the 1990s. (James Carville may have another name for him.) Obama is still well ahead among delegates chosen in primaries and caucuses, and he is not very far behind in superdelegates, either.

But what about the voters? Here there are some ominous signs. The latest Fox News poll, conducted after the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's appearance at the National Press Club, showed Obama's favorable/unfavorables at 63 to 27 percent among Democrats, compared to Hillary Clinton's 73 to 22 percent. Suddenly she's not the only one with high negatives. And 36 percent of Democrats say they would be disinclined to vote for Obama because of his longtime relationship with his former pastor. There's more bad news in The Pew Research Center poll of Democrats. Obama's national lead among Democrats is down from 49 to 39 percent to a statistically insignificant 47 to 45 percent. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/wright_controversy_affects_the.html


These results are not outliers. The Rasmussen tracking poll showed Obama leading Clinton 49 to 41 percent before Wright spoke to the National Press Club. Afterward the numbers were 46 to 44 percent in favor of Clinton. The Gallup Poll had Obama leading Clinton 50 to 41 percent the night before the Pennsylvania primary. The results reported May 1 were Clinton 49 percent, Obama 45 percent.

Obama's standing as a general election candidate also seems to have taken a hit. Gallup showed him tied with John McCain 45 to 45 percent before the Wright appearance and trailing 47 to 43 percent afterward; at the same time, it shows Hillary Clinton tied with McCain 46 to 46 percent. Similarly, Rasmussen has McCain now ahead of Obama 46 to 43 percent and McCain tied with Clinton 44 to 44 percent.

All the numbers in this deluge of numbers tell the same story. Not just liberal but also many conservative commentators said that Obama's speech on race March 18, in response to ABC News' broadcasting of excerpts from Wright's sermons, had solved any problems he had with voters, or at least with Democratic voters. And it was hard to argue with that conclusion, at least as to Democrats. Obama's loss in Pennsylvania April 22, in line with expectations, didn't necessarily contradict that. The response to Obama's repudiation April 29, in response to Wright's remarks April 28, is clearly different.

One reason is that Obama now has taken two diametrically opposed stands on the minister whose church he attended for 20 years, who married him and his wife and baptized their children, whose sermon inspired the title of his 2006 book, "The Audacity of Hope." On March 18, his response was: No, I cannot renounce my pastor. On April 29, his response was: Yes, I can.

Another and more important reason is that Obama's long association with a minister who says that the federal government manufactured the AIDS virus to kill black people, who likens American soldiers to terrorists, who celebrates Louis Farrakhan as a great man -- that long association tends to undermine the central theme of Obama's candidacy. Obama has presented himself since his 2004 Democratic National Convention speech as a leader who can unite America across political and racial divides. He presented himself to American voters, most of whom, I believe, think it would be a very good thing if we elected a black president. (I personally feel that way.) "In the blue states," Obama told the convention in Boston and the nation watching on TV, "we worship an awesome God." Now it turns out that the God worshipped in the Rev. Wright's church was "awesome" in ways we didn't expect.

The appeals of Obama and Hillary Clinton will be tested in the May 6 primaries in North Carolina and Indiana, the nation's 10th- and 15th-most populous states. The Real Clear Politics average of recent polling shows Obama's share of the two-candidate vote in North Carolina at 54 percent, down from 59 percent in April, and Clinton with 53 percent of the two-candidate vote in Indiana, where she trailed not long ago. A few pundits still are saying that Obama's choice of pastor is a distraction, an irrelevancy. But some voters, perhaps in the belief that a president's judgment and values have important consequences, don't agree.



More Information coming in, not good for Obama.

We need Hillary so we can get the White House. The Supreme court is too important to risk it on Barack.



*edited to clean up link for the weak*
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. we can't risk it on the preferred candidate of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, Hillary Clinton
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. If judgment and values are important, they won't be voting
for the Clintons. How soon people forget.....or do they?
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:31 PM
Original message
The SD better not take the election away from Clinton
Throwing women under the bus would be a big mistake.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. How do they take an election away from someone who is in second place?

Interesting logic there.


They can either VALIDATE the vote of the people by selecting Obama..... or they can INVALIDATE the vote of the people by selecting Clinton.


If the SDs go with the person who's ahead, they are VALIDATING the vote.


Something can only be "taken away" from someone who is in FIRST place. Hillary is not.... and hasn't been at ANY point in this campaign.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. The SD better not take the election away from Clinton
Edited on Sat May-03-08 12:33 PM by DJ13
....you DO realize she is losing I hope.

If not, seek help.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. we have read lots of how the AA crowd would be in an uproar......
but i really have not read anything about how the women would be
in an uproar.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. It's because she is LOSING rodeodunce! She is NOT entitled to the nomination.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. aaaaaa aaaaaaaaaagggggg ggggggggghhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. Tell us how you really feel...
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. "the AA crowd "?
I'm sorry that you are a racist piece of shit. Why do you continue to post on DU?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. That 'concerned democrat' gets paid GOOOD money to paste shit here
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
39. heh-heh-heh. That is funny. always the sexism card. always.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. LOL.... three points

1) What happened between March 18 and April 29? Wright came out and threw Obama under the bus. He responded in kind. By August, Americans will be rolling their eyes at the mere mention of Rev Wright.


2) Michael Barone? MICHAEL BARONE? Seriously? Wow.... you're stretching.


3) Hillary, with 58% of voters saying she is untrustworthy, has ZERO chance in the GE. It is a lot easier for Obama to overcome a "judgement" issue with respect to Wright than it is for Hillary to become "trustworthy" again. 3 in 5 American voters don't trust her. She can't win in the GE.

The Supreme Court is too important to risk it on a candidate so polarizing that she has zero chance of winning a general election. NONE.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. This election is too important to waste my minutes reading your tripe.
:thumbsdown:
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. But replying is ok?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
51. Good point
.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. You're linking to Town Hall? What the hell is up with the wingnut links? How about Gallup


Apparently not falling out, but still meaningless.

Who is winning Guam?

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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Foresight is more important than hindsight
It seems this candidate lacks the former, which definitely should worry people. How many promises will he keep after he is elected? The ones that he had foresight on ? We're screwed.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Boy, you haven't looked too hard at the
Clinton's foresight. I'd rather Obama make a "misstep" about a pastor than a war.

Get your priorities correct.

No-one has died because of Wright.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. You crybaby's need a "We're Screwed -- Can't Win" forum to go commiserate amongst yourselves.
Oh yeah, you already have one. Please use it, instead of whining with the "GE is lost" meme.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Voters are idiots.
The MSM has overblown Wright - because Obama and Wright are black - but have ignored the religious people associated with McCain and previous republican presidents. Reagan's wife consulted an astrologist - but there was not effect before, during and after Reagan's presidency.

Those who think Wright should be an issue are childishly racist and bigoted.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. "Those who think Wright should be an issue are childishly racist and bigoted' i do NOT
appreciated you calling me or others these slurs just because

we have objections to Wright.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. That's because your 'reservations' really aren't about Wright, are they?
GO back and read your last 50 posts about this and there is an undertone of disgust, almost - dare I say it - hate???

Maybe you don't know yourself as well as you thought.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. "we have objections to Wright"

...then don't vote for him.


Oh...wait.... HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR ANYTHING!



Please post ONE instance where Obama has said or done anything that shows he agrees with Rev Wright on ANY of the controversial issues.


Just one.


Can't?


Well, then.... Tarring someone with the words of others is an unfair political tactic. And this goes for any candidate.


It's McCarthy-ism. Guilt-by-Association is always wrong. A person should be judged only on THEIR views.

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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. So all of a sudden wright is dead to you?
Gosh. That was sudden.
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DAGDA56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. Another Conservative for Clinton?
You really don't get it, do you?
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Obama: Reverend Wright does not speak for me March 18, April 29
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. On May 3rd - who is so fucking sick of bringing this topic up?
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swishyfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. It's ALL they've got. Sad.
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ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Do a search on the OP - he/she does about 3 pieces a day on Wright.
Clearly the OP believes that "scary black men" are the central issue in American politics today.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Yep - it IS all about the 'scary black men' with her/him, ain't it...
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. Well, Rezko turned out to be a big let-down for them
Seems like he might get off, as it happens. Just my personal opinion though.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Obama spent 20 years with this guy, now less than a week is too much for the rest of us.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. 20 years in church does NOT equal "agreement on viewpoints"....


Shame on you.


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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. If McCain spent 20 years going to KKK meetings would you make the same argument?


For Shame.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Equating Trinity UCC with the KKK is the height of ridiculousness....


Wright is bombastic and a little nuts.... but


A) he's never advocated violence against any group and hasn't hung anyone from trees.

B) Trinity UCC is much more than "just" Wright. 8000 members. there are lots of reasons to belong to a church, the pastor is but one (albeit important) one.


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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Wright has been barack-stabbed
and the turncoats on DU are amazing. Within minutes the change of opinion was almost complete - from visionary truth teller to clown.



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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Because he was visionary at the NAACP meeting... and a clown at the NPC meeting....
...not inconsistent at all.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. You're right - I'm going to bail on Obama just as soon as I get paid
by Hillary for some mailers I did for NC....

I've been trying to collect for some time now....
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Snarkoleptic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yawn...maybe it's time to lay off the corporate teeeveee media.
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washingdem Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. "It's about delegates." "It's about the popular vote." "It's about which states we won."
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. is`t it awful...ya just can`t trust him to tell the truth
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Meanwhile, Ms. Bosnia/NAFTA/Columbia is a paragon of truth.
And there wouldn't be anything to worry about if she ran in the GE. Nope. Nothing at ALL.

:eyes:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. yup she`s a winner...i just can`t figure out what she won
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. Things. Change.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. This lame attempt at trying to bring up the Wright "issue" is brought to you by...

Strabismus

It's what happens when you have your head up your ass...
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hypocrisy, expedience and betrayal
He had no choice but really - let's not pretend it shows character and judgment.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. Barack-stabbed by Benedict Obama
.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. since nobody has actually addressed the point made in the OP...
...i will. the media (the same media that 'elected' bush twice) has decided that Wright is an issue to ponder (endlessly). this is not in question. obama's poll numbers have suffered as a result. is this so hard to understand?

the media will decide this race one way or another. and they are NOT democrats.
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solidguild Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
48. So how is that "politics of change" working out for Hillary?
:rofl:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
49. when an Obama supporter says it, maybe, when you say it
well, you say this kind of stuff no matter what, even when Obama is up 10 points or whatever.

i suggest that you not post that every single thing you hear every single day means the end for Obama.

it's getting a little, ummm, boring. :boring:
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
50. Nao Nao Nao
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