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Cicero: "Do not hold the delusion that your advancement is accomplished by crushing others"

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:18 PM
Original message
Cicero: "Do not hold the delusion that your advancement is accomplished by crushing others"
Edited on Sat May-03-08 03:28 PM by babylonsister
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/5/3/111933/6060

Quote of the Day: Ancient Roman Ed.

by Steven D
Sat May 3rd, 2008 at 11:19:33 AM EST

Today from a politician, legal advocate, writer and orator of the Late Roman Republic, Marcus Tullius Cicero:

Do not hold the delusion that your advancement is accomplished by crushing others
.


This year we have witnessed an astounding political tragedy. Astounding because no one would have believed it possible a year ago. We have watched while one candidate, once assumed to become the Democratic nominee, upon losing her position, has taken every opportunity to defame and demean her opponent, including a persistent appeal to racism. Done out of desperation, done out of ambition, it matters not the reason. It is the action that matters, and the actions of her campaign, including statements by her husband, her surrogates and her supporters have spread lies and half truths, and appealed to the basest instincts in our nature.

The entire purpose of her actions (and yes, I credit her with the actions of those who speak or act on her behalf), is to win her the chance, not the certainty, but only the chance, of convincing Democratic super-delegates, who hold the key to selecting the party's nominee at this point, that her opponent has no hope of winning the general election, and thus they must turn to her as the only viable candidate who can win this November. To make this argument her campaign has at various times, implied that whites will not vote for Obama because he is an African American, or because he is an elitist, or because he is out of touch with ordinary Americans. She has implied his supporters are members of a cult, that his supporters are members of an activist fringe, and that their votes don't count as much as those of her supporters. She has claimed that he is the only candidate in the field who lacks the experience and ability to command our Armed forces in a time of crisis, and that he only knows how to make pretty speeches. She has even taken shots at his religious faith. In short, she has portrayed him as a hollow man, a man without convictions, a man who cannot win the election because of who he is, because of his identity, and not because of his policy proposals or his political program.

She would have been wise to have heeded Cicero's admonition, which I have cited above, for her actions in tearing down Obama have also helped to destroy her own good reputation among Democrats, who might have accepted her as their nominee had she run an honorable, positive campaign, rather than one focused on personal attacks and gutter politics. For she truly is deluded if she believes that she can recapture the votes of millions of Democrats who now see her as a woman bent on victory at all costs, regardless of whom she hurts or the means she employs to gain her ends. Much of the African American vote is lost to her, as their anger at her tactics in playing the race card with white voters can not be assuaged. She has also lost the votes of many party activists, many young people and I believe many independents to whom Obama's message of change and hope was greatly appealing.

snip//


Perhaps most striking, however, is that as far as I can determine Obama has never attacked his opponent by suggesting or implying that Hillary Clinton is unelectable this Fall because of her gender. For any number of reasons, even if he wanted to attack her because she is a woman, he cannot. Thus, his focus has been primarily positive, focused on his own message, especially when compared to Senator Clinton's campaign. Has he attacked her for her policy positions? Yes, he has, such as his recent ads which criticize her gas tax holiday proposal, but that is not equivalent to the types of personal attacks that have been leveled against him by the Clintons.

Obama either knows intuitively, or has learned from experience, that Cicero's statement above is correct. A victory obtained through crushing the career of your political adversary is not a victory worth having. Too bad that Senator Clinton has not yet achieved such wisdom.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Karlius Rovius didn't get the engraved memo. nt
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Neither did Hillarious Clintonus. nt
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. DuZY #2.. and K&R on the thread !
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. That's "Hillaria Clintona" to you!
Her name should be in the feminine, unless she really does have "testicular fortitude".
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. DuZY !!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Now that's a wonderfully ironic quote to anyone who's read and studied Cicero!
Which OBVIOUSLY the author hasn't!

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. What's your problem now? Google it:
Edited on Sat May-03-08 03:34 PM by babylonsister
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Do+not+hold+the+delusion+that+your+advancement+is+accomplished+by+crushing+others&btnG=Google+Search

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/marcus_tullius_cicero_quote_38c7

Quote from Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not hold the delusion that your advancement
is accomplished by crushing others."

And it's not so much ironic as sad for Clinton, that she's warranted this kind of piece.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. My "problem" is that I've read and studied Cicero!
and I've gotten to point in my life, where I just have to laugh sometimes.

Cicero's invective is legendary.

Ever heard of a Phillipic?

Check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippic

The link doesn't mention the Orations Against Catiline (which I think are his best).





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Caria Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, Cicero crushed some enemies
And was crushed in return.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Indeed he was
which adds another wonderful layer of irony and tragedy to situation.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Bully for you! So are you saying that quote shouldn't be attributable
to him? Tell that to the 79,800 google hits that do believe it came from Cicero. I recognize you're trying to diminish the author of this article and the content, but no dice. In fact, it's ironic that that is what you chose to concentrate on. I expected nothing less.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'm saying- watch WTF you quote- and how you apply it to your arguments
lest you be thought a fool.

Which is precisely what anyone who knows even a little would think about the author (who likely did what you did, and google searched- or randomly came across a quote that he thought supported his argument).


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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You've proven nothing except that you're a fool who won't
Edited on Sat May-03-08 03:58 PM by babylonsister
admit you're wrong, proof to the contrary. Solly, Charlie. You provide proof he didn't say that, and I'll listen.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I guess I'm not getting what you're talking about
Edited on Sat May-03-08 04:21 PM by depakid
Did I deny that Cicero is quoted as having said that?

No- but I AM asking that people THINK, read a little and maybe UNDERSTAND what Cicero was all about- and how he in fact advanced his own career and pursued his goals in politics.

"A home without books is a body without soul." ~Marcus Tullius Cicero

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Why don't you comment on the article? The quote very much applies
to what was said in the article, but your Cicero knowledge seems to be getting in the way of discussing the reason the article was written and posted to begin with. Basically, this has nothing to do with Cicero. This is about the primaries.

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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. He may have said that one quote (though who knows how good the translation is) but
Cicero was a legendary orator who would cut his enemies down to size. He was way more clever in doing so than most modern politicians, but he was THE master of killing with kindness, sarcasm, and praeterition (e.g., I won't mention where the Senator was last night or what he did).
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. And I am saying even assholes like Cicero can get it right once in a blue moon.
Edited on Sat May-03-08 09:27 PM by roguevalley
I know about Cicero too. Nice quote, OP.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I think you're right. One word - praeterition. nt
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Caria Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Precisely
A truly liberal education includes close study of the Classics.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. A friend is, as it were, a second self. - Cicero, De Amicitia
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brindis_desala Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. yup, could say so
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Well Said. This fact though much ignored is coming back to bite the Clintons in the a**
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thank You
Followed the link, good article and there's some really interesting comments over there as well.
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. I agree the campaign has been very racist, but why does this writer call Obama "her?"
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. The bushits tried to Crush everything in sight
who didn't agree with them.."you're either with us or against us". :nopity:

But, like all Losers..hilary doesn't learn from history..she's really not capable, poor thing..it's in her dna :nopity:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
:kick:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. i think hillary's campaign is a tragic Shakespearian play
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