Mayor Ray Nagin added as Louisiana SD today

[Yael]

http://www.wxvt.com/Global/story.asp?S=8266086&nav=menu1344_2

He is undeclared

[thevoiceofreason]

1. He is incorrugible

[AllentownJake]

2. Not that guy

How is he still mayor?

[bigwillq]

4. Because the people elected him again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/21/us/21election.html?ex=1305864000&en=f793930eabdf064f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[AllentownJake]

5. I kind of figured that

I'm just saying how after he was part of the entire Katrina mess. Not the guy fully responsible but a part of it.

[cbayer]

9. Please see my post below.

I am one of the people who re-elected him.

[jpak]

52. How was he responsible for it

n/t

[Seen the light]

3. Not a fan of Ray Nagin's nt

[Yael]

39. Me either

[cbayer]

68. Why not?

Sorry for hijacking your thread. I am asking seriously though. I had no idea that people disliked Nagin and am very curious as to why.

[Yael]

72. I don't see it as a hijack at all -- he is the topic!

This is why:



He let 400 busses drown in his incompetence in securing the city and getting the people out. I am not saying that Governor Blanco (or whatever her name is), the Federal government/FEMA are not complicit in this, but in the aftermath, watching him screaming into the national media's microphones about how this was everyoe's fault but his own just set me off the edge.

I don't do the blame game, finger pointing and entitlement very well -- and that is EXACTLY how he came across.

I have no use for that man at all.

Oh, and yes -- I have friends in NOLA. One couple went north to their daughter's house, but another family I know ended up at the Superdome. Lost 3 of their 4 animals (somehow the dog survived). That family thought they would be safe in their home (north of the FQ, not quite to the 9th ward) because if there was any danger, the local officials would have evacuated.

Did I mention:



Regardless, I am going back in March. Work event combined with the continuing rebuilding efforts.

[cbayer]

78. I appreciate your efforts in NOLA.

I have no doubt that if Nagin had had control over those buses he would have utilized them. The city was in absolute chaos for the 2 days before the storm and many more people got out than in any previous evacuation. Mistakes were made, but he is the reason that so many people got out. He called for a mandatory evacuation of the city. If your friends chose to stay, it is not his fault. How would they have felt if the cops came to there house, dragged them out and then nothing happened. I suspect they would feel outraged.

Of all the people that have been held accountable, Nagin was the only one that was actually there. He was pissed. When he said, Where the fuck is FEMA, Where the fuck is Bush, Where the fuck is the military, it was not righteous indignation. He was fucking there and he was pissed. With good reason.

I missed all the media coverage because I was there. I had no idea until tonight that the media had trashed him.

[Yael]

81. I appreciate you defending him

I see it as utter and complete mismanagement and to this day he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

The Peter Principle at its finest.

[cbayer]

86. He defended me. nt.

[Raine]

6. ack and he is going to help choose

our nominee. x(

[DJ13]

7. Yahoo News is saying 76 new SD's were added today

Why?

(Its a video off their front page, and I cant view their videos with my browser.)

[high density]

13. Yep here is the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4780121&page=1

"We came up with this idea late, literally in the middle of the night," Democratic strategist Tad Devine said. "This might satisfy both sides."

The idea was to give each state a few extra superdelegates, late in the game, who would be chosen by local officials to better reflect the results of a long nomination fight.

In Illinois, it's no surprise that all three add-ons — including Chicago Mayor Richard Daley — favor Obama, the favorite son.

[goclark]

18. What is this crap about !

Isn't that moving the Bar again!!!!

[high density]

23. To dilute the will of the voters?

I dunno. I hope this stupid process gets overhauled for 2016 or 2012 (God forbid!) The super delegates just need to go.

[Yael]

48. No, no, no. See post #44. Louisiana

has a unnamed add-on SD and they voted today to determine who would get that seat.

Every state has one unpledged unnamed that they either vote for or appoint at the state convention. PA has 3, New York announced their 4 yesterday and California has 5 to be named. Most other states have 1 or 2.

[goclark]

84. I am getting really tired of the DNC

They sent a letter here for donations.
I drew a line through the $ choices and wrote :
Please contact me after you are fair and nominate Barack Obanma. Looking forwarnd to hearing from you soon.

[TheDoorbellRang]

85. No, the add-ons have been in the total all along. They just hadn't been chosen yet

There are 794 total super delegates, and about 76 of these are what are called "add-ons," because they are not chosen until a state holds its convention, at which time they are added on.

Illinois holds their state convention this Monday, but the party already knows who the three add-ons will be and that they'll be for Obama, so they announced it early to give him a boost before Tuesday.

Any questions about delegates, check out DemConWatch -- they have evrything you'd ever want to know.

[4themind]

29. Bowers has been talking about it for a while now

the PLO's IIRC, and that he projected obama to win the majority of them based upon the relative number of states he's won.

[K Gardner]

31. WTF??!! I think I just blew what few brains cells I have left. I'm so OVER this crap.. leave it to

the DNC.. the DEMOCRATS.. to fuck up a sure thing and screw it up SO bad that NO ONE will trust the results.

Whatthefreakever.

[Yael]

45. This isn't new -- it is just naming the allocated unpledged addons

See my post below this one.

:hi:

[K Gardner]

70. Gotcha.. thanks ! Almost had exploding head !!

[Yael]

74. Well, it doesn't help that 2 dozen people are parroting it on thread after thread

without checking the facts.

*sigh*

[Yael]

44. These aren't new -- just unknown

They are on the state rolls as "unpledged addons".

Most are assigned or voted on at the State Conventions.

You can see a listing here:

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/03/add-on-superdelegate-selection-schedule.html

Today was the day for South Carolina and Louisiana to name their 1 SD each.

Yesterday, New York named their 4.

[cbayer]

8. Ray Nagin was doing a pretty good job as mayor before Katrina

He stood up mightily for the city after the storm. If you didn't get to hear his f-bomb radio interview during the storm and its aftermath, it is worth looking up.

His re-election came up just several months later and he was challenged by a Mitch Landrieu. Landrieu is a white guy with liberal leanings and a very entrenched NOLA political family (sister - Mary).

They campaigned like crazy and Nagin won by a small margin.

Since then, his standing and reputation in the community has gone downhill. He is felt to be absent, hands off, ineffective.

I don't say this to defend him, though i find people saying "Fuck You Ray Nagin" pretty damned offensive.

I've been pretty absent, hands off and ineffective since Katrina as well. I think it damaged him. However, I believe that in his heart, he is a really good man.

I don't have a link and some of my opinions may be influenced by my personal experiences. I just don't want to see him trashed here.

[AllentownJake]

10. Well

He's your mayor.

I don't have to live with him so if you like him good for you.

[cbayer]

14. I don't live there anymore

And I wouldn't vote for him again. But i need to say, as someone who went through katrina with him, he fought for us and fought for us. It was bad and he really fought.

[graycem]

33. Yeah, but he and Blanco

could've done a whole lot more to prevent some of the things that happened. All those freaking school busses sitting there could've been used. I was so disappointed with both of their lack of leadership on that, nothing but absolutely tragic. Just the usual complacency I guess because of so many close calls, but they didn't take the threat serious enough in my opinion. They should've done a forced evacuation of the city, and helped the poor get out. Meh, hindsight.

[cbayer]

35. Blanco is a different matter.

Nagin did everything he could to get people out and got the vast majority of people out. Many of the people that stayed either refused to leave or had no way out. Were mistakes made? Absolutely. Was Nagin complacent? I don't think so.

[graycem]

41. Ok, I'll take your word for it...

since I do live in another part of Loozy, but I had relatives in and around the area, so my information is second hand. But I do remember seeing that parking lot full of yellow busses that should've been used to get the people who had no way out. I think that was a mistake in judgment. Then when I went to a shelter who had absorbed a lot of evacuees to do a little volunteering, most that I talked to felt the need to make it clear that it was exaggerated, the conditions inside of the Superdome particularly, and some faulted him. So, anywho, I wasn't on the ground, just my perspective based on that.

And I know many refuse to leave, they often do. My uncle died because he refused to leave in Mississippi. My aunt and cousin were lucky enough to survive, literally floating on their roof until the water subsided, and they suspect he had a heart attack before he actually had time to drown in the wave of water. It was so naive of them, but he was sickly and didn't want to leave because the area is threatened so often, and the last big hurricane there was Camille back in the 60's, so he didn't take it seriously. I just feel like if there is that big of a threat, with so much potential for loss of life, they should do mandatory evacuations, and provide transport for those who don't have the money for gas, and shelter and food for those who have no place to go.

[cbayer]

46. Mistakes were made.

I am surprised that anyone who was actually coming out of the Superdome or Convention Center said that things were being exaggerated. If anything, the conditions have been underplayed.

Perhaps the government and the media had some reason to not make this look as bad as it was. I don't know, but it was truly unspeakable.

[graycem]

53. Ok..

like I said, second hand info, so maybe the people telling me this got out of the SD before everything got worse or they just didn't want people to think bad of everyone as a whole, maybe. The media actually did it's job on this, I think. CNN was doing the best coverage and they were reporting that it was pretty horrific. Anyway, I guess I'll have to change my opinion of him.

[cbayer]

56. Draw your own conclusion.

I am sorry if I have been a bit harsh, but I am pretty passionate on this topic. Ray Nagin was not our problem. Blanco and Bush were our problem. I reject his having been scapegoated.

I have enjoyed talking to you.

[graycem]

63. No choice really, we should always

be open to change our minds when new information is presented. I don't blame you, I would defend him too if I saw things from your perspective, and I will defend him too since I've learned different. Firsthand information can't be trumped.

I didn't find you harsh at all, and if you were, I couldn't tell. :)

Blanco and Bush certainly were to blame, I won't ever forget seeing them on television giving bad advice, dodging blame, and then later, her kissing his butt for no reason.

Was one of the worst things I've experienced, the whole not knowing, and then going to see the destruction when we were locating relatives. Anywho, hopefully mistakes of this magnitude won't ever happen again. Someone was telling me the contractor they'd hired to rebuild the levee walls was found to be not fully licensed and they were using newspaper! inside of the new walls, instead of the more expensive material that is supposed to be in there, so I don't have much hope. Some people never learn.

Enjoyed the convo as well. Did you relocate to another part of Louisiana or ? I'm from Alexandria. I lived in St.Bernard when I was like 5, but that was forever ago. I had relatives in Chalmette, and Slidell but they all relocated to parts in MS. My aunt went back to her property in MS to rebuild, which is crazy. Her property is no more than 3 or 4 miles from the beach, so it'll probably happen again.

[cbayer]

67. I amI on the west coast.

Live on a boat now. I think it's part of my effort to deal with the water on it's own terms, lol. I miss NOLA, especially right now during Jazz Fest.

I am glad that your family all got out safe and sound and are now relocated.

I would love to share your optimism that we have learned, but I heard today a story about how they caught some Army Corps of Engrs staff stuffing paper into the new levees because they ran out of the plastic material they are supposed to use. I kid you not.

Eat some boudin for me (and sneak a cracklin in there too, but don't tell anyone).

[graycem]

75. Oh so that is true...

Yeah I was hearing that too... and worse, it's basically disintegrated because bugs were eating it. I thought it was something they had contracted out to an individual though, maybe I heard wrong. At any rate, grrrr.

Wow, a boat, now THAT'S optimistic! :D

I saw a clip today and they were showing the crowds at an outdoor event, because they were worried about some tornadoes in the area. Thankfully the storm moved out to the gulf. And then they said that there are even more restaurants than they had before, and everything looked so "alive" and business is booming, but one of the store owners said, the sad reality is that she lives 10 miles out of the city and her area is still just as damaged as it was. That part is discouraging. But, they're still there and haven't given up on their businesses, so they'll get through. Hopefully with a better response from the new administration.

And ew, you can have all the boudin, I just want all the crawfish and beignets! I missed crawfish season this year, because I'm a temporary Texan. Big bummer. And you know that's the best cracklins in the world, the fresh ones from the street vendors there. *sigh*


**Speaking of Nawlin's the Hornets are in the Playoffs... they're playing the Spurs tonight, and they just had Hugo the Hornet (the new mascot) jump through a flaming hoop, and they used regular fire extinguishers to put the fire out, and now it's taking them forever to clean the court. Geeze. :P

[Jane Austin]

54. Watch Sean Hannity much?

It was FEMA who dropped the ball on the buses until it was too late.

That's what happens when you privatize everything.

[FARAFIELD]

11. ummm

fuck ray nagin, hands off and lame, you got that right. He is the mayor of that town though and when he thought he could kiss bushs ass and get further by that then doing what was right. I gave a part of myself to help the relief so I feel i can trash him.

[cbayer]

20. Are you from New Orleans?

Were you there before or during Katrina? He was diligent and pissed and did everything humanly possible to save us.

How did he kiss Bush's ass? He called out Bush using the f-word during the storm.

By the way, I want to honestly thank you for giving part of yourself to the relief effort.

[merh]

17. it is hard to explain the "damage" that functioning folks live with

every day because of Katrina.

I understand what you are saying.

[cbayer]

25. Thank you merh.

This is the only place i ever bring this up and I do it here infrequently. I always get very kind and supportive responses when I do and that means a lot to me.

[merh]

32. I'm a survivor too

I fully understand.

[davidinalameda]

60. didn't he become a Democrat to run for mayor?

and wasn't he the Chamber of Commerce candidate?

[cbayer]

71. He was never a Republican

That was retracted by the news sources that claimed it. He was first elected when he was the GM for the Cox telecommunications company in NOLA. He ran against the old, New Orleans political machine. People wanted new blood and someone who had managerial skills.

I don't know about the CC endorsement. If it was for the re-election, that would not surprise me. Small business was devastated by Katrina and repairing it was critical to rebuilding.

[4themind]

12. Never liked him after he insuiated that philly

was a trashy city

[tishaLA]

15. why? i grew up in Philadelphia

and it *is* a trashy city. That's part of its charm.

[AllentownJake]

16. Philadelphia is dirty

but fuck an outsider for saying it.

[jpak]

22. So it's OK to trash NO and its mayor after it was destroyed by a hurricane??

Nothing remotely like that has happened to Philly...

...ever...

[AllentownJake]

24. Trash NO

Where did anyone trash NO? Trashing a public official ever equal trashing a city.

By your logic trashing Bush=trashing the USA.

Do I hate freedom?

[jpak]

37. By your logic - you are an "outsider" so STFU about NO, Nagin and Katrina

n/t

[AllentownJake]

43. LOL

I never said one bad word about New Orleans.
so STFU saying I did.

[jpak]

64. LOL

and STFU

[Barack_America]

19. Filthadelphia!

That's my home!

[cbayer]

21. That's not exactly what he said.

I believe he expressed surprise that there was a city that had more trash on it's streets than New Orleans.

He has a way of putting his foot in his mouth.

But why all the hatred towards the man? What did i miss?

[AllentownJake]

26. Philly

Was in an uproar after he said that....proud people there and if anyone from outside Philly says something bad about Philly or beats our sports teams...we will throw dead batteries at them...literally.

[jpak]

36. What did you miss??? Many hours of hates on the EIB network

El Rushbo did not like him...and "mispronounced" his name a lot...

[cbayer]

49. That's fascinating.

And people are re-iterating that here?

We had virtually no media for eight days and then, after I got out, I could not turn on a TV or listen to a radio for months. So I missed a lot of what the rest of the country was being fed.

Helps me understand why this particular thread is engendering the hateful response it is getting. Nagin was smeared.

[jpak]

62. It was un...fucking...believable - a complete racist Bush-licking MSM clusterfuck

The morning after the storm, network commentators were saying "well, looks like the Chicken Littles were wrong" ... then the levees went down...

...then came the Super Dome, Greta Bridge, Nagin and Blanco hatin'...

...then Junior came to MS to stand tall at the Rubbles of Trent Lott's House as FAUX news and the rest of the MSM did a Rovian Split Screen of the military relief convoys coming to Save the Day...

....the El Rushbo race baiting was a laughable sideshow compared to the MSM...

[cbayer]

88. That explains it.

I was totally unaware of that. He is being called a Republican (and worse) in this thread. People who don't know have eaten the poison pill. Let's let the media tell us who is good or bad, who we should elect or not. Unbelievable.

[ecstatic]

28. I didn't care for the way he spread rumors about his own people

in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Rumors which were disgusting and untrue.

[cbayer]

34. What rumors?

I am not aware of any rumors he spread. What really happened is that only the people that were there know the real truth.

[ecstatic]

40. Superdome rapes and murders and victims shooting down helicopters

for starters.

[cbayer]

42. That didn't come from him.

This is what happened. There was no communication other than mouth to ear from people who were able to move around the city. The rumors were ruling the day. Some of them were true, others not.

Fact: Really, really bad things were happening downtown. There were assaults and use of weapons. Only those that were actually there know what is true and not. Nagin may have reported what he was hearing. Are you able to say that it was not happening?

I saw things I will NEVER speak of. Nagin was just trying to save us.

[ecstatic]

27. wtf? why are they adding delegates? sounds like they're trying to stack the deck

and I don't particularly care which candidate will benefit... Fair is fair. This just seems wrong somehow.

[AllentownJake]

30. Part of the process

70-80 of the superdelegates aren't known till after their party's conventions. Right now there are 40-50 superdelegates that exist but do not know that they are super yet.

[ecstatic]

38. oh I see. Thanks! nt

[iamthebandfanman]

47. "but do not know that they are super yet."

sorry, i just think thats a funny set of words. tee hee.

[GoldieAZ49]

50. now there is a loser

that he was reelected is a perfect example of voter ignorance

[cbayer]

58. I ask only this.

Please read the thread before trashing Nagin.

[likesmountains 52]

66. Do you live in New Orleans? Did you follow the election? Did you listen to the other

candidates? Or are you making your judgment from Arizona?

[Auntie Bush]

51. I guess there is a 5% chance he'll vote for Hillary.

Doesn't Dean pick the SD and isn't he a Clinton disliker? Doesn't seem fair to me. Why are we still picking SD this late in the primary? :shrug:

[AllentownJake]

55. No

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/03/add-on-superdelegate-selection-schedule.html

Additional Super Delegates are picked at Party Conventions. It's always been part of the process. Dean has nothing to do with what the LA state party decides to send as their add-on. Lets not go starting the Dean bashing.

[Auntie Bush]

57. OK....I'm fine with that...just misinformed.

[davidinalameda]

59. I hope he supports Hillary

[thewiseguy]

61. Obama carried LA why should he support Hillary?

[gauguin57]

65. One thing that can't be denied is that Ray Nagin is really a Republican.

He was a rich, Republican cable-company vice president until right before he announced he was running for NO mayor. He changed to Dem. just so he could be competitive there.

Now he's a DEMOCRATIC superdelegate? How did THAT happen?

[Yael]

69. He was up against 2 other people for the SD spot and the state party members voted for him

[Seen the light]

73. He endorsed Bobby Jindal over Kathleen Blanco

'Nuff said.

[cbayer]

90. In retrospect, Bobby Jindal probably would have been a better choice.

He would have done a better job with Katrina, I am sure of that.

Jindal is a Republican but not a neocon.

[cbayer]

76. Blatantly untrue.

Garbage fed to people by the media. Are you from New Orleans or did someone just tell you that.

BTW, some of the MSM stuff you have heard about him was because he was an intelligent, successful, educated black man and there were people that wanted to take him down.

Sound familiar?

[likesmountains 52]

77. Don't you love it? Everyone knows what's happening in New Orleans politics...???

[cbayer]

79. It tells you alot about the power of the media.

[gauguin57]

80. If you meant the Republican part ... I read/heard it in several places (newspapers, BBC, CNN)

No one "told" me that ... it was published all over the place after Katrina. And not just on some blog, either. You can even find it reported on NPR's Website.

I just found a report saying Nagin denied on Tavis Smiley that he was ever registered Republican, and that some of the many news outlets that reported it have retracted it. I heard/read NONE of those retractions (and I read and listen to a lot of different news sources).

If I'm wrong, I stand corrected, and apologize. My question: How did all those major media outlets get it so wrong, when it's so easy to check someone's voter registration???

Also ... he DID contribute to George W. Bush's 2000 campaign. That's on the public record.

[Yael]

83. I posted links in #82

[Yael]

82. I asked Teh Google "Ray Nagin Republican"?

and it said http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=ray+nagin+republican&btnG=Google+Search

First one:

He did not achieve, or seek, any other public office prior to his election in 2002. More controversially, Nagin had actually been a registered Republican for most of his adult life, switching to the Democrats shortly before seeking office, for which his candidacy was branded as opportunistic in the solidly Democrat city. Nagin was, at that time, a known Bush supporter, having contributed to the president’s campaign.

http://www.citymayors.com/mayors/new_orleans_mayor.html

[cbayer]

87. Yael, I thought better of you than you would believe things you read on the internets

without having the data to back it up.

If it is so easy to find out someone's registration, then find it out.

Nagin denied it and some newsources retracted it.

He was a smart, educated, challenging black man trying to unseat the establishment. Now, who in the world would want to put any false information out about him? Can't imagine.

Sound familiar?

[Yael]

89. I'm not the one making the claim

I just googled it as y'all were talking about it.

:shrug: