Hillary didnt lift a finger for Kerry and for Obama it will be the same.

[meow mix]

lets stop kidding ourselves that the clintons are going to help and im sick of hearing this lie.
they have already proven they will "stay home".

i mean cmon, they hate obama 100 times more than kerry.. duh.

[MadMaddie]

1. It's interesting you say that because I think it's true.

I heard Obama on Russert's show today and he said that he would support the Democractic party no matter what. I haven't heard her say that lately and I am concerned that she won't and will splinter the party if she loses.

[annie1]

3. i've heard her say twice "i'll do everything i can to make sure barack gets into the white house"...

once at the most recent debate, and once the other day before crude obama supporters started chanting obama while she was speaking. and all he says is "yes, i'll support the nominee"

[Lerkfish]

13. you're right, she SAID that, but I somehow think that won't happen.

If she follows through, I'll be happily surprised.

[truedelphi]

17. I will be shocked beyond all belief!! n/t

[annie1]

35. right, just like bill never helped kerry. give it a rest.

[blm]

39. Kerry helped Bill immeasurably for Bill's run. Bill used his entire book tour to defend BUSH

on the very issues of his Iraq and terrorism strategy that Kerry was attacking and Bill conveniently forgot that Kerry was the leading expert on terrorism and the tracking of their funding.

[flowomo]

2. well, Bill lifted his finger at least once:

PHILADELPHIA - A smiling, energetic former President Clinton campaigned for Democratic Sen. John Kerry on Monday just seven weeks after undergoing heart surgery, telling a crowd of thousands that President Bush and Republicans are trying to “scare the undecided voters” away from the Democrat.

“If this isn’t good for my heart, I don’t know what is,” Clinton said of the enthusiastic response from the crowd.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6328991/

[rodeodance]

49. "Clinton campaigned for Democratic Sen. John Kerry on Monday" yes.

[chimpymustgo]

4. You effing ingrates and liars. Bill got off his HOSPITAL bed after open heart surgery

and campaigned for Kerry. He was remarkably gaunt and thin...but he was OUT there.

Disgusting.

[flowomo]

5. right, see pic in post above you

n/t

[Patsy Stone]

21. It's a fact.

Right after that appearance in Philly, he was in Miami with John Kerry the same night. I saw them.

[karynnj]

24. It was 7 weeks after and WJC lives to campaign

I know - very very well - someone who had open heart surgery. He was back to work full time in 6 weeks and was walkin 4 miles a day within 3 weeks - as part of rehabilitation.

Not to mention - it likely would have BETTER for Kerry to have been alone. At that point, he was getting huge record breaking crowds - far bigger than Clinton 1992 - even when alone. The coverage there and elsewhere was all BILL.

Here is my analysis of how he hurt - he hurt more than he helped with his selfish book tour. Imagine that HRC gets the nomination and Kerry put out a controversial book in late June and went on a book tour - maybe on his Contra and BCCI investigations - and he made controversial statements rather than sticking to what he can prove 100% in a court of law. Now first of all this would not be near as bad as Kerry would not get the coverage Bill did. Then assume that he agreed with McCain rather than HRC on the biggest issue and stated that as if all but fringe Democrats agreed. (WJC hit the left on Iraq, saying he fundamentally agreed with Bush on what had to be done. Now - that was NOT Kerry's (or Obama's :) ) position -but Clinton made no effort to say that and he got far more coverage than Kerry in those 3 weeks )

You make the issue campaigning in fall 2004. The lack of support that I and many others have spoken of - with no Kerry quotes to back us up - are based on our observations of negative things he and his allied did - not anything not done. Some are:

1) Releasing his autobiography in July 2004. Bill Clinton is reputed to be the sharpest politician of our generation - any high school kid could see why this is a bad idea in the run up to the election. As it was, June was a month when Kerry could get little coverage - as it was solid Reagan coverage for at least 3 weeks. Then Bill Clinton took a fair part of July - and all of us were treated to learning that the reason for Monica was "because I could". Now, frankly I could have happily lived my whole life not knowing that. This was a repeat of Bill Clinton having a confessional interview about getting his family back after Monica in the week before Gore's convention. You need to either challenge his political acumen or accept in both cases he had some need to fight off Gore or Kerry becoming the head of the party and President.

2) In the book, he has 2 strange pages where he writes of the 1996 MA Senate race. Kerry was the nominee almost 2 months before he finished editing his book - so you know that he reviewed this knowing Kerry was our candidate. The overall impression was that he liked Kerry's competitor more but wanted Kerry to win because of his knowledge on the environment and technology. He also mentioned Kerry's long term work with disadvantaged youth, noting there were no votes in it. Now, none of these 3 were big 2004 issues. Not mentioned were most of Kerry's strongest issues - foreign policy, terrorism (BCCI was already shut down), and healthcare, where Kerry had just written,with Kennedy, the precursor bill to S-CHIP based on the plan that had just passed in MA over Weld's veto! In the sections on Vietnam reconciliation, Clinton extends a huge amount of praise to McCain, nearly ignoring that our nominee was the chair of the committee and, per all accounts of those on the committee, did an incredible job and was the one person most responsible for its success. Now, I think most people, unlike me, looked up "Lewinsky" not "Kerry" in the index - but for people who read that nearly 1,000 page book those pages played into the Republican theme that he didn't accomplish much in the Senate.

3) There were Clinton and Clinton ally generated stories all through the period he was convalescing that Kerry's campaign was poorly run and that he was not listening to Clinton's advice. In fact, Kerry numbers went up when he concentrated on Iraq and the War on terror, rather than the economy as Clinton advised. These stories hurt.

4) In the wake of defeat, is when Clinton was the worst. That he praised Rove on the campaign he ran and made a point of saying he liked both Kerry and Bush within a week or two of the election hurt. Then there was the whisper campaign generated by Clinton allies that Kerry was not taking a place as just 1 of the 100 Senators and implying that he was at odds with Reid. The fact is that Kerry, by virtue of being the nominee, was a party leader - not the party leader, but a party leader - a status that the Clinton allies were denying. Clinton also had a conflict of interest as the last former President and the husband of HRC - this showed most when in 2005, he spoke of Kerry, a Democrat with far more national security credentials than almost any other Democrat, as weak on defense - rather than embracing Kerry's position on the war on terror. With the specter of Kerry running, he likely didn't want to hand that to Kerry. However, had the Democrats continued to keep that as their policy, the reaction of people like George Will that Kerry was right would have positioned us best on national security. The fact is that contrary to the list in BC's book, there was no Senator who understood more than the guy who wrote "The New War". The constant belittling Kerry and blaming Kerry for the SBVT by all the Clinton people was painful - and that did color my picture of the Clintons for the worse.

As to the campaigning, the question I would ask is who called whom. I seriously doubt the Kerry campaign begged him to campaign. By the time Clinton campaigned, Kerry alone had already had huge rallies - that broke all previous records. Of course Bill Clinton was a draw - but I seriously doubt the attendance had it just been Kerry would have been much less. I saw the entire thing on CSPAN and it was emotional - as the first time Clinton was out and he was good - but Kerry's speech was equally well received - judging from the applause. The media reports all spoke mostly of Clinton, because his being out was the news. In fact, either CNN or MSNBC cut away as soon as Clinton ended. So, newswise - I would guess it helped Kerry less than the local coverage of a just Kerry rally would have. Now, I've seen people post that Kerry would not have won PA without that rally. This is extremely unlikely - this was downtown Philadelphia - an area that ALWAYS is very Democratic. The African American turn out across the country was record breaking - even where Bill Clinton didn't go. There is no reason to think Philadelpia would be different. In Pittsburgh, it wasn't Clinton but THK who made a difference. I suspect that was the case in the affluent Philadelphia suburbs - as there were likely many independents that remembered her as their Senator's wife and as one ex-PA Republican in my area accepted Kerry as good because otherwise she wouldn't have married him.

[WillyT]

32. Don't You Know...

There are no ingrates in politics...

After all, it ain't bean-ball, right???

:shrug:

[blm]

38. What was Bill doing from Jan2004-Sept2004? Publicly DEFENDING BUSH on his Iraq strategy

at the very time Kerry and Edwards were criticizing that strategy.

He and his loyalists were backstabbing Kerry throughout that campaign:

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Publicly supporting Bush in high profile interviews on his book tour was meant to do WHAT?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville sabotaging Ohio Dem voters on election night was for....who?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[Beacool]

52. Oh, just let the rabid kitty talk.

That one is always spewing hatred.

Yeah, their leader is such a "uniter"........


:eyes:

[barack the house]

6. Regardless of disagreements if they do offer any support I will welcom it speaking for myself..

[earthlover]

7. Hillary will forcefully campaign in fall to help Obama....

Here is what she will say....

Obama is a Christian, as far as she knows.

McCain has a dedicated career of service, whereas Obama has one speech.

McCain is qualified to be commander in chief, whereas Obama has one speech.

sarc

Seriously, she will be out there campaigning for Obama. She will do the minimum absulutely necessary not to be considered a non-supporter.

She has her eyes on 2012, so she can't afford the charge that she didn't help out Obama in his losing cause....

Hillary is very predictable. Sad, but true.

[meow mix]

14. "as far as she knows"

exactly

[earthlover]

42. "as far as she knows" is as far as she goes....

[annie1]

8. posts like this make me want to actively campaign against obama...

some of you guys are delusional ass----s that somehow obama has collected.

[Lerkfish]

15. but..but...aren't you already doing so?

[burythehatchet]

47. If you can campaign as effectively against Obama as you have for Clinton,

then PLEASE, by all means, campaign against Obama.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. Another blatant Obama fan lie

Bill Clinton campaigned for Kerry right after undergoing open heart surgery.

[sfam]

10. I seem to remember this as well. As an Obama supporter, open heart surgery...

seems like a reasonable excuse to me...

They didn't campaign for Gore, but that was at his request, I believe...

[ProSense]

19. It was almost two months after his surgery, he appeared at a rally near the end of Oct.

What was he doing for the six months prior to that? Hint: Book tour, praising Bush.

[karynnj]

25. Seven weeks after is NOT right after

He did not run a marathon and I'll bet you that it was the Clintonistas in the Kerry campaign, who whined continually about Kerry and were loyal to Bill, were the ones who asked for it. It was nice he did it - but I doubt it had that much impact.

[MonkeyFunk]

45. But he did campaign for Kerry, right?

And the time frame after bypass surgery isn't yours to judge. Full recovery from bypass surgery takes 3-5 months. Bill was out there campaigning in 7 weeks, and you guys STILL shit on him? I don't get where the hate comes from, but it's ugly.

The OP is a blatant lie. But then, that's all the Obama fans have to work with - lies.

[karynnj]

46. I never said he didn't campaign - nor have ANY of the people from the JK group

The fact is that just as it is not true to say he didn't campaign, it is not true that appearing in Philadelphia was not the courageous act that the Clinton people make it out to be. Do you want to give him a purple heart? The commentary of the time spoke of how GOOD at had to be for WJC to be out hearing cheers of wellwishers. It was not physically strenuous. It also was not done in the PRIMARIES to support his winning the nomination - it was in the general election and was in support of our nominee.

As to the time frame - as I said I know how long it was before the guidelines at a top hospital had people walking miles for rehab because someone very close to me had open heart surgery.

We spoke of the net of ALL the things he did:

Things that hurt:
- Releasing the damn book
- The book tour
- Praising Bush and agreeing going forward on Iraq - without noting that Kerry didn't. (Why is that important - WJC's message was that only the left fringe didn't and WJC in July 2004 got more coverage than our nominee. Clinton made it harder for Kerry to get his message out - by stating - as the mainstream Democratic message - something that Kerry did NOT agree with and for dominating July. )
- The content of the 2 pages on the Kerry/Weld race - the only good thing was that the book was so boring - few read that far into it.

In the primaries - which is where we are NOW - saying that only Wes Clark and HRC were stars of the Republicans party. The Clinton people have blasted Kerry for endorsing Obama over HRC, but at least he praised HRC and Edwards as likely to be good Presidents and that they would lead the country in the right direction. That's better than what Bill did.

[Danger Mouse]

11. Except Bill actually did campaign for Kerry, right after surgery. Your lies dishonor us.

[blm]

36. Bill spent his entire book tour DEFENDING BUSH in summer of 2004.

.

[Lerkfish]

12. they didn't help Gore, either.

as far as I know.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

20. "as far as I Know" correctly states it.

if you have links to your corrections, that's fine. If you do so, I'll admit my recollection is wrong.

HOwever, I do not recall any such support.

"obamabully"? in what way am I a bully?

aren't you attacking ME, and calling me a bully? typical.

[Triana]

16. Bill Clinton despises Obama. I suspect Hillary doesn't have any but animosity

for Obama either.

They'd publicly announce their support but behind the scenes be doing all they could to destroy him.

I don't trust the Clintons any further than I could toss both of them at the same time with one hand.

[Maribelle]

22. How many lies against the Clintons, over and over?

Just as many times as the Obama cult proves it doesn't care about the issues that effect Americans.

[Captain Hilts]

23. You are patently wrong in this assertion. Stop lying. nt

[QC]

26. I'll say it again: Obama's worst enemy is his supporters. n/t

[ProSense]

27. Right, and Hillary supporters are just like Hillary. Take that any way you want to. n/t

[QC]

31. Shouldn't you be out bumping all your long-dead threads? n/t

[burythehatchet]

48. It's been an interesting revelation, that supporters tend to be like their candidate.

For Hillary, the train is always stopping at Delusionville.

[SoonerPride]

28. The Democratic party's worst enemies are Clinton cultists

Right back at ya

[QC]

30. What? Do you think you are going to wound me with that one? LOL!

I think they are both timid corporate centrists, pretty much indistinguishable from one another except in the most superficial ways. They are fries or onion rings, Coke or Pepsi, six of one or half a dozen of the other. Would you rather be shot or stabbed?

Not everyone here thinks that one of the corporate clone candidates is God and the other Satan.

[MonkeyFunk]

44. I definitely agree with that!

I don't know how such a nice guy attracts so many hateful liars to his cause.

[StevieM]

29. Unbelievable. Bill Clinton helped Kerry, he wanted to help Gore and Kerry didn't want Hillary's

help. I also suspect that Hillary will help Obama, whereas if the roles were reversed (and they still could be) I can't imagine Obama helping her.

Steve

[annie1]

33. she has stated multiple times she will do everything she can to get...

him elected. he says "yes, i'll support the nominee". and of course his wife says "i'll think about it". they're so full of crap.

[karynnj]

51. Kerry has said far more often and since before he endorsed anyone

that he would work his heart out for whomever is the nominee. He has ALWAYS done that and did so in 1992.

There is a comparison of apples and oranges here - The Clintons did nothing for Kerry in the primaries - he wasn't their candidate. At least Bill signaled that Clark was. If HRC gets the nomination, we can then see if Kerry does as much or more than HRC did for him.

I think Obama will be just as likely to work for HRC - though he likely would have reason to feel cheated because he will have won more delegates -the game as started.

[BootinUp]

34. Kerry didn't lift a finger to dial the phone and ask her to. nt

[blm]

41. Democrats shouldn't HAVE to. Bush had his party there every day all night and day.

And considering that Bill became president thanks to the years of Kerry's hard and dangerous work uncovering the crimes of office of Reagan and Bush, you'd think Clintons would appreciate that, eh? But no...they repaid his efforts by getting into the WH and deep-sixing all those IranContra and BCCI matters for Poppy Bush and his powerful cronies.

[sniffa]

37. Ah, so this is what that other thread is in response to

[Stephanie]

40. Much better for Obama if they stay out of it.

Neither one of them is very attractive right now, they might do more harm than good if they try to "help."

[Califooyah Operative]

43. It's true. nt

[rodeodance]

50. The Obama finger: