Question for those of you who think FL and MI delegates should be seated.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

What, if any, should the penalty be for moving a state's primary date up, in opposition to DNC rules?

[jsamuel]

1. is their a way to penalize the state parties without penalizing the voters?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. Can it be done in a way that is meaningful

And won't cause other states to think they can get away with it?

As harsh as not seating their delegates may be, you can bet that no other state will try to pull that crap next time.

[elocs]

6. Voters elect the representatives who make the decisions on their behalf.

If these representative believe they can defy the rules with impugnity and have no fear of negative consequences, but then they are held accountable for their actions, then it is up to the voters to let their representatives know they are not happy with their actions. Voters often have to suffer the consequences and are penalized due to the actions of their representatives.

[Iceburg]

7. Forget about revenge & retribution -- enough damage has been done to the DEM

party ... mostly from the arcane rules, and inept handling by the DNC.

Revote in both states.

[MercutioATC]

17. It's not about retribution, it's about future obeyance of rules.

If no action was taken by the DNC, it would eliminate any disincentive to obey the rules.

Dean said from the beginning that a revote on or after the states' regularly scheduled dates would be considered valid...as long as they don't expect the DNC to pay for them.

[bigwillq]

3. Take away half of the pledged delegate number

60 percent.
70 percent.

Something to that extent.

[suston96]

4. Penalty? For screwing the voters? Fine the party hacks. Or Dexter them.

[JKaiser]

5. Last to have primary..

[DJ13]

8. Nullify the results by seating them split 50/50, ignoring the vote results

That allows them to "count", but invalidates their illegal primary results as a punishment.

Oh and as a real punishment to those responsible for moving those primaries, no super delegates seated from either state.

[jsamuel]

10. they have done polls in both states (SUSA)

and less than 20% likes that idea. That includes Obama voters.

[DJ13]

12. Party rules arent poll driven

Sorry, but there has to be pain for any punishment to be effective.

Next time a state thinks they can ignore the party, they would remember 2008 and not try it again.

[jsamuel]

16. nowhere in party rules does it say or suggest a 50/50 split either

[DJ13]

19. Then dont seat them at all (which IS 'in the rules')

Happy?

[jsamuel]

23. it is also in the rules to allow them to be seated or to give them 1/2 value

the decision is on the board. Those are the suggestions in the rules, not a 50/50 split.

[Fresh_Start]

9. eliminate the superdelegates votes

but leave the citizens votes intact

That is, punish the wrongdoers not the average citizens

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. That 's an idea that makes sense.

Superdelegates are the political bigwigs in a state so that would really chap them.

And not only take away their SD status, but they can't go to the convention period.

[Maddy McCall]

11. Seat the delegates in the nose-bleed section. Impose a fine on the state party.

There were a million ways to exact the pound of flesh, if there were any necessity for doing so, beside penalizing the voters in the states.

[DAGDA56]

13. I am a Florida voter, who voted in the primary, and have no problem that

I didn't select a delegate to the Democratic Convention. As a homeowner, my vote was focused on a property tax bill. If I were a renter, I probably wouldn't have bothered to vote at all. I had no illusions that the results in my state's Democratic Primary would count. If anyone says they thought their vote in the primary would somehow be made to count at the last minute, they were either delusional then...or lying now.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Both States took a hit by having the campaigns actually by pass them

Primary season has become a big business opportunity for many states, with a flood of campaign staffers, and media people booking up hotels and motels and eating out throughout the state while candidates tour, with tons of money getting poured into local print and media ads also. Almost all of that dried up in Michigan and Florida with the ban on candidate campaigning that was agreed to. Neither state initially expected that and it served as a degree of punishment right there.

I don't understand why the DNC went for a 100% delegate rejection on top of that, rather than the 50% that was in their rules, and that the GOP went with as a consequence to those states for primary jumping.

[dsc]

18. losing one half of their delegates

the punishment that was advertised and that the GOP imposed upon those states. And no superdelegates for those states.

[BootinUp]

20. They have already been penalized

since the DNC did not recognize the results, they did not have the impact they wished to have by moving the dates up. I am sure the fuss over this has also not made floridians too happy with their legislature.

[TahitiNut]

21. The FIRST step should've been taken YEARS ago.

The perpetual PRIVILEGE granted to one or two states that do NOT reflect the nation's breadth of interests and perspectives should've been abolished decades ago. When PRIVILEGE takes precedence over justice, the process is ethically bankrupt. This is NOT an issue that's just recently arisen. It has been a thorn in the side of many people for many years.

Michigan has arguably suffered most from the corporatist predations of the last 28 years. Michigan has the HIGHEST unemployment and has the region with the HIGHEST foreclosure rate. Michigan has a diverse electorate.

The party infighting, between DLCers and 'leftists,' between the state parties, and between the state and national parties, coupled with gleeful agitation and sabotage by the GOP, resulted in the VOTERS being denied a voice, denied face-to-face meetings with the candidates, and denied the campaign spending (even though contributions continue to flow).

FUBAR!

FUBAR!

FUBAR!

[MichiganVote]

24. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

Let's solve the problem, not nit pick the offenders to death.

[rug]

22. Seat them. No vote on the first ballot.

[Uben]

25. Only one way to do it

Seat all the delegates and give Clinton all the delegates. We could solve all the worlds water problems by harvesting all the tears from the Obama supporters! (have to run them thru a desalination plant first)

We need to go ahead and do this, nominate the best candidate, Clinton, and then win in November. It's the only way we can win.




(Warning: others may have differing opinions!)

[MichiganVote]

27. I just want you to have at least one nice comment after that post. :)

INCOMING!

:scared:

[Uben]

29. Your kindness is overwhelming!

I've already changed my name, SSN#, driver's license, I moved across the border to Mexico, and hired fifteen bodyguards. You can never be too cautious!

[MichiganVote]

30. No kidding. More insults here than anywhere on the planet and I don't even know these people. :)

[Uben]

31. Doesn't bother me

.....I've been around here a looong time, and I am used to losing by now. I've been called everything in the book. and some things not in the book! All they've managed to do so far is get a xxxx-eatin grin out of me. I try not to insult anyone personally.


I knew I shoulda took the blue pill!

[MichiganVote]

33. Good attitude. Think I'll emulate it.

[AZ Criminal JD]

26. Seat them and give them full rights. Count every vote. No compromise.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. So what happens when a bunch of other states decide to move their primaries up? nt

[Texas Hill Country]

28. break the rules, punish the politicians the broke them, not the people or the process.

[avrdream]

32. 50% of the delegates.

Barack won't get any in Michigan because he took his name off the ballot - his problem, not ours.