Harold Ford (DLCer) on "Hardfball" said Hillarys gax tax holiday will buy you "a lot of lunchmeat

[Skidmore]

to feed your kids."

Let them eat lunchmeat! The cry of the new aristocracy.

[Berry Cool]

1. I believe he means, specifically,

"baloney."

[Texas Hill Country]

3. dont disparage the poor. for many americans $30-$50 means something.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Spread out over 4 months it's chump change.

The whole thing is a huge scam, intended only to make people who aren't paying attention believe Hillary and McCain give a crap about the "ordinary American."

$30 multiplied by millions of people means safe bridges and decent roads.

[bluebellbaby]

41. "Chump Change"...wow....

You know...it's not for me...I have a 4yr degree, company I worked for closed 5 years ago...been up and down finanically since...this past week due to my higher costs of gas...now averaging $70 to $80 a week...is killing me...

When in College, I couldn't afford food...my only meal every day was hot dogs and mac-n-cheese...guess what...this past week...I had to buy hot dogs and mac-n-cheese for meals...that's all I could afford...I'm not starving...but the "chump change" remark was rude...

$30 will buy me 15 packages of hot dogs and 15 boxes of "Kraft" Mac and Cheese...(the premium stuff)...and it will feed me for a month...sorry to say...

[Skidmore]

45. Perhaps you should read further down the thread and

see some of the other responses. No one is disparaging people who don't have alot of money. I grew up in a family that was dirt poor and we lived on surplus commoodities when I was a kid. I've live on some shoe string budgets myself. Political stunts are not going to have any meaningful effects on the complex and real problems this nation faces in a war economy gone amuk.

[bluebellbaby]

55. thanks, I did read the responses...some made sense as yours does...

I guess the term "chump change" got me going...hard to rub two nickels together these days... but I don't think the gas tax holiday thing is meant to be any solution to the real problems we face...and as you said..."in a war economy gone amuk"...I do think any short term relief is welcome...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. Yeah, I've been there, too.

I know very well that $30 can help a lot if money is tight. But the truth is that, spread out over 3-4 months, $30 doesn't do much for anybody. Take away the 18 cents a gallon gas tax when you fill up and what do you save? Maybe two bucks a week? That, of course, is assuming the oil companies don't just raise the price again, which will certainly happen because the (slightly) lower price will encourage consumption. Econ 101 says increased demand = higher prices, so pretty soon that 18 cents per gallon savings is gone. Then at the end of the summer they reinstate the tax, and now you're paying more than ever. Not so good for low-income people at all. You will be worse off as a result. That $30 "savings" won't happen, not for real.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. The term isn't mine; it was used by an economist, cited here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQgAcP5he5WA&refer=home

There's not a single economist who has said this is a good idea.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. The poster didn't disparage the poor

stop your poutrage.

[Berry Cool]

32. Thank you.

Why would I disparage the poor? I used to be one, and someday, for all I know, I could be one again.

[Skidmore]

14. Then why not get behind Barack's tax cut proposal which

would really mean something substantial. Or support his plans for promoting jobs creation by rebuilding our failing infrastructure or developing green industries. Those measures would have long lasting effects and not be a stunt. No one is disparaging the poor. I am disparaging cynical political operatives and candidates who pull this type of stunt.

[Berry Cool]

65. Same here.

A gas tax holiday is giving people a fish, instead of stocking the pond so that when they go fishing, there will always be fish to catch. It's a cynical stunt, and while it may seem to be a big deal if you're poor, ultimately your savings will be a "fart in a windstorm" to you. It will be spent quickly, and then your underlying problem with gas prices will remain.

[John Q. Citizen]

So send them 30-50 bucks Why screw around with baloney? She should give them that for their vote..

She just made 100 million in the last 7 years

[cali]

16. not over 3 months it doesn't.

do you even know any people who are really economically disadvantaged?

[Texas Hill Country]

30. yes, and i have been there myself. it may not be huge, but its something and my trucker father is

praying for the holiday...


Truckers are getting paid less per mile than the gas it costs to put in the truck right now... ALL trucking is about to stop!

Why does that seem to get lost?

It is also the reason our food costs are going up (well, a major one)...


15-20 cents a gallon would be a god send to every trucker in the country and the ripple effect would do everyone good.

[Skidmore]

34. My brother is a trucker.

He's having a tough time. And so are we.

I just think that for once we should insist on some long term systemic changes over bandaids. Don't assume that everyone you are communicating with on this forum is "elitist" and loaded. Some of us live very close to the ground. I want better this time.

[rateyes]

44. My Dad's a Teamster, and my mom worked in the front office of a trucking company...

Believe me, the gas-tax will be replaced by higher prices for the fuel itself. This won't help truckers at all.

[Raine]

48. It doesn't have a prayer of a chance

chimp already said he will not support this...IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN and Hillary knows this.

[Andy823]

21. Sure it does

But there is no way in hell that she can get this passed in congress, and now way in hell she can get congress to pass a windfall profits tax on big oil. Even if by some "miracle" she did get it passed, Bush would veto it! She knows this, congress knows this, and anyone with any common sense knows this. Why give false hopes to people who need help?

[chill_wind]

47. "False hopes". Thank you. It's a cynical tactic, for which she has no credible backing. NONE.

It's not pandering even. It's frisking voters for votes for something they're never going to see.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. It will cost them more in the damage it does

fixing the roads after cutting road maintenance.

Just because people are poor, it doesn't make thems stupid.

[DMorgan]

33. Are you poor? Did you consider NOT DRIVING?

That's the BEST way to save $. JUST DON'T DRIVE!

Don't have a car! Pay $5 a week to go shopping with a friend, Sell your car, take public transit. There's LOTS of ways to save more than $30 this summer.

[gmudem]

37. That's assuming gas companies dont jack up oil prices anyway

Which would almost certainly happen, so instead of that gas tax money going to rebuild roads and bridges, it goes directly to corporations.

As if you needed any more evidence that she is the corporate candidate.

[FARAFIELD]

64. Personally I like to drive on Highway Bridges that dont Collapse

So ill pass on the HOLIDAY besides anyone who believes that gas prices will drop 18c a gallon is a blithering idiot.

[Skidmore]

7. I think you are correct.

However, it was perfectly clear that he sincerely believes that a gas tax holiday will be doing the peons a huge favor and improve their diets.

[John Q. Citizen]

8. That was the first thing I thought of. I'm amazed he was so forthright about it.

[LSparkle]

12. LOL!

[flpoljunkie]

29. Hell, you can't buy lunchmeat for 30 cents a day! As Bill Clinton would say, "Give me a break!"

[AllentownJake]

2. Not for

the 300,000 workers who won't have a job.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Yeah, $30 worth.

Let them eat lunchmeat, and not much of it.

Fuck Harold Ford and the DLC.

[high density]

5. Except after the price rises 18.4 cents

No more lunchmeat.

[TeamJordan23]

6. His jealousy of Obama is so blatant. nm

[Iceburg]

17. Most pathetic response of the week ...make that weak! /nt

[Clark2008]

70. Except that he and Obama are friends...

And Obama campaigned for him here in Tennessee.

[Saturday]

9. People care about getting a few bucks back even thought you like

to Obama speak and belittle the concerns of workers. It will lose IN for Obama tomorrow and maybe NC.

[AllentownJake]

19. Can you name

one economist who thinks this is a good idea?

[LSparkle]

20. She's making a promise she KNOWS she can't keep!

Another LIE! There is NO WAY she'll be able to FORCE the oil
companies to pass along those savings to the consumer! (That's
"meddling with the market"!) She's counting on people being
easily misled and not thinking this through ...

And what about the 300K JOBS THAT WOULD BE LOST if revenues
weren't going into the Highway Trust Fund? What about the
ROADS AND BRIDGES that would fall into further disrepair,
just for a political stunt? What if ANOTHER bridge were to
collapse during this "gas tax holiday"? The depths to which
she's stooping here are just ridiculous ...

[cali]

22. no. according to the new CBS/NYT poll, 70% think this is pandering

bullshit. And you can't speak for "people". I know a lot of economically strapped people. I live in a poor rural community and this won't help any of them. period.

[Arkana]

54. You're being deliberately obtuse

if you actually think this is worth the paper it's printed on.

I thought Democrats were smarter than this.

[bigdarryl]

10. what do you expect from a fellow DLC'er

[lapfog_1]

15. Did he mention a dollar amount?

Like $30 for the summer?

(if the Oil companies pass the reduction along)

And, more importantly, did he mention that you have to buy $575 dollars of gas to save your $30?

Carpooling might save you a lot more money... and you can buy a lot lunch meat with THAT savings!

[blm]

18. LET THEM EAT LUNCHMEAT. Fuck Bush-Clinton-Bush and the POWERFULE ELITE

who set them in place.

[Skidmore]

23. Lordy, blm. I cannot in good conscious vote for a DLCer,

especially Clinton. I'll write in Obama and perhaps Richardson as a VP for him. But I can't hold my nose anymore for this type of politicking and ineffective leadership.

[blm]

31. Are you kidding? I want a way back machine to go back to 1992 primary and STOP EM COLD THERE.

They Were NOT WORTH what has happened since.

[Skidmore]

36. *Sigh* You are so on target with that one.

[Raine]

25. "Crumbs to the people"...

Anyway it will buy nothing because it is not going to happen. Chimp already said he would never agree to such a thing so it's noting but "pie in the sky".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. So, in pictures...

That also works for Hillary Clinton in pictures.

[lyonn]

38. Good one Bornagin..., except that looks like expensive baloney! nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. I figure five dollars per package...

will get you six packages.

[uponit7771]

27. What's to keep the oil companies from raising the price of fuel!??! HRC Supporters = short sided

[burythehatchet]

28. What a fabulous segment on Hard Balls; a Clinton supporter

and ever so neutral Hal Ford, following a ball massaging of the great Clenis.

[flpoljunkie]

40. Speaking of the "great Clenis." Get a load of the manure Bubba is shoveling in NC!

--to the "low-information" white voters, or as the media calls them, "white, working class voters" or conservative Reagan Democrats. Bill goes real heavy on the "us vs. them" theme.

From NBC's First Read...

Bill, small-town ambassador

Monday, May 05, 2008 1:02 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ’s Carrie Dann
Here are some quick hits about Bill Clinton's courting of rural voters:

1. Stunning stat of the week: By tomorrow, he will have done almost
100 events in Indiana and North Carolina combined. (At least 52 in NC, not counting tomorrow's stops at polling places, and more than 40 in Indiana.)

4. Best of Bill: Here are some of the best bites from Bill courting rural voters:

LENOIR, N.C. -- “All the people that aren't for Hillary, who think that, you know, we're a little too connected to folks like you, they have made merciless, unmerciful fun of me about this. ‘Bill Clinton's out there in the country, exiled to the country.’ I grew up in the country. I know where I am and I wanna be right here.”

NEW BERN, N.C. -- “I love that sign. And if North Carolina wants Hillary, and you elect her, she'll be the nominee and the next president of United States. That’s up to you. She would not be here today but for rural America. In Missouri, 109 of the 114 counties voted for her. In Arkansas, 72 of 75 counties. In Texas, 230 of 254 counties. A sweep in the rural areas of Ohio. The people in small towns in rural America, who do the work for America, and represent the backbone and the values of this country, they are the people that are carrying her through in this nomination.”

WHITEVILLE, N.C. -- "Just remember this, she got this far because of people like you. And if you show up and you vote for her, in big enough percentages and big enough numbers she'll go right on. …She's gonna end this thing roaring. And what are they gonna say if she wins the popular vote? 'I'm sorry we are gonna give it to the caucus states that are going Republican in November?.’ No. So all these people tell you she can't win and that are rushin' to get all the people to declare for it, to send it off, to cut you off, and stomp your voice, don't you believe them. You are still in the driver seat. "

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/05/981866.aspx

[jakem]

35. mmm. here you go!

?v=0

[TheDonkey]

42. HOMETOWN GAL!

[ikojo]

43. How elitist!!

So, the DLC thinks lower middle class people eat only lunch meat?

[bunnies]

46. yay for lips and assholes mashed in a bucket and made to look like meat.

Feed it to you kids with your whopping .30 a day!

I wouldnt eat that shit if someone paid me. Ramen anyone? 10 cents each!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. "Trickle-down" Bolgna is might tasty if served up by a posturing politician.

[rateyes]

50. Condescending elitist. nt

[BootinUp]

51. A ridiculous post from someone

who eats out a lot I'm guessing.

[Skidmore]

53. Well, you guess wrong, buddy.

[Leo 9]

56. Bologna for Bologna.

[maddiejoan]

57. Did you know that for some of us

an extra dollar or two in our pocket one day is really great?

Sometimes it's the difference between two meals a day or one.

and by meal I mean a sandwich made with lunchmeat -- add some cheese if I'm really stylin'.

[Skidmore]

61. maddie, if you knew a little more about my life you would not assume

ignorance of poverty on my part. My point is that politicians willing to play these stunts and think like HRC and Harold Ford are the reason we continue to have systemic problems which promote poverty, poor health, bad schools, and expensive and inefficient energy use. Many of these problems were present when I was a child and I've been around a few corners--I'm no spring chicken. A short-term band-aid flash-in-the-pan stunt will create more problems and perpetuate old ones. It is time to get serious about this nation and include the people in the process rather than talking down to them.

[maddiejoan]

62. I was addressing your post

I didn't find it cute or funny -- and frankly it seemed to me you were laughing at people to whom lunchmeat is in fact a "staple".

having said that --I agree short-term band aid solution BY THEMSELVES do nothing --but only McCain is offering only a short term fix. Hillary has said this won't be enough, but let me tell you --if at the end of the week I've managed to save $2 bucks --well then I guess I get to buy a half gallon of milk and a loaf of bread.

[Skidmore]

63. I was mocking the cynical ploy McCain and Clinton have put out there.

You probably should go back and read my post closer. You might understand more accurately what I was trying to say.

[BlooInBloo]

58. Harold Ford lies.... Though it's beyond most Americans, Atrios has a nice lil explanation...

Explanation via simple economic model:
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_05_04_archive.html#5067489210774799892


Explanation of how the simple economic model works:
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_05_04_archive.html#7688244025544756344



EDIT: First link was wrong.

[malik flavors]

60. I couldn't believe that he agreed with this fake ass gas tax holiday. What a joke.

This legislation could never get paseed. It doesn't matter how much he likes it.

[Vinca]

66. Actually, that is not true, Harold. Yesterday, during my 33 cent

savings a day shopping expedition, I was unable to buy one slice of deli ham with my largess. Guess the masses need to dine on the cheapest baloney in the house.

[JNelson6563]

67. I actually heard that

I very rarely see any corporate media stuff but happened to catch that. He went on about how it will buy "a lot" of lunchmeat and stuff like that. I thought "been grocery shopping lately Harold?" Lunchmeat is getting expensive as is everything else so no, $50 doesn't buy "a lot" of groceries period.

Just another clueless politician.

Julie

[Maribelle]

68. That, or the mocking cry of the new Obama blogcult.

[Hoof Hearted]

69. Y'all just can't stop yourselves, can you?

[Skidmore]

71. Sick to death of the same-old, same-old....

and, baby, Hillary is the same-old.