A personal story about how much $30 really is to people stuggling - from Corrente

[Texas Hill Country]

this is in response to Stoller's smart ass post on Kos... and I post it in response to all of you that said $30 bucks aint shit. To many many Americans, more than there should be, $30 means a whole hell of a lot.

http://correntewire.com/30_from_a_gas_tax_holiday_buys_one_person_food_for_a_month_but_do_creative_class_cough_obama_fan_boys_care_guess

$30 from a gas tax holiday buys one person food for a month, but do "Creative class" Obama Fan Boys care? Guess...
Submitted by lambert on Mon, 2008-05-05 21:05.

As alert reader gqmartinez points out, $30 is a month’s worth of food, if you need to live on ramen noodles. And as alert reader BDBlue points out, it’s 15 weeks worth of school lunches for one of your kids.

I’ve done that math, because after the dot com bubble burst, that was the situation I was faced with, and I was lucky, because my situation only lasted for months. Except I can top gqmartinez: My survival formula was dollar store spaghetti sauce. You can get two days out of a jar, and even with spaghetti, I could still get change back from my thirty! That was before things got really bad, and I went to the cans of generic pork and beans, 4 for a dollar. Plus, since by that time the gas and the electricity were off, I could heat the beans with the hotplate after stringing an extension cord out into the hall and plugging it into a socket I’d screwed into the light for the purpose. Too risky to boil water that way, I felt. What if I heard someone on the stairs and had to cut the power when the spaghetti was only half boiled?

$0.25 a day.

Now, to Stoller, $30 is what? Seven vente lattes and a croissant? I’d say. Though maybe he goes for the pumps of vanilla syrup instead of the croissant. I really wouldn’t know.

[datopbanana]

1. People won't get 30 bux

That was best case.

In reality, the oil people will just up the price to fill in the tax void.

[Texas Hill Country]

19. that is not the point, the point is that there are many american for whom ever PENNY counts

[quakerboy]

75. That is exactly the point he was making

There are those of us who just barely make it, based on whether we manage to "borrow" the coupons from a Sunday paper at work. Every little 30 cent coupon matters, and thats equal to 100 of those coupons.

But will we actually see that $30? or, for the poster below who is rural, and has a higher gas bill than we who can still technically hoof it to work when the tank and account are both empty, will they actually see that savings? Given that gas prices are already rising far faster than supply/demand would justify, far faster than the price of a barrel of oil would justify, I don't believe it for a second. The oil companies will raise the prices to match the drop. Give them a month. And then, when it goes back up at the end of the summer, it will hurt all the more. Because the oil corps will not be lowering their prices once it goes back up.

Or maybe the Oil corps really care about us, and will do their part to help. Though, I would argue if you believe that, you might posting on the wrong board.

[Hoof Hearted]

23. Bull, it would save us +/- $60+ a month We're the rural working class this board loves to dump on

We have two girls in school, I'm back in school, and the SO supports us all. When you are in truly rural situations it's VERY difficult to find people to carpool with. Carpooling is mostly a suburban thing and the nearest suburb is 200 miles from here.


Sixty dollars means a lot to us and frankly the argument that "oil people" would just raise the price is weak as hell.

[boppers]

27. Oil people haven't raised the price absurdly so far, we can trust em!

Right?

:sarcasm:

[datopbanana]

31. Seriously

[Texas Hill Country]

32. the collusion investigations would halt that shit.

[datopbanana]

33. gl

[Duke Newcombe]

50. Er...you DO know what two OilMen(tm) run this nation, right?

Duke

[VolcanoJen]

82. We'll get all over the collusion investigations the second we pass this Gas Tax Holiday in 20 Days

Time's a-wastin' on those empty promises to Hoosiers and Tarheels!!

[Hoof Hearted]

58. continue to dump, it makes you look good

[Texas Hill Country]

35. and dont forget about people like my Trucker father... he would cry tears of joy if gas went down

[Hoof Hearted]

57. No kidding. Let the elitists tell him he doesn't deserve a brreak.

Let them come to my house.

[casus belli]

43. You won't save a dime.

Have oil companies pay the $.18 tax, so they can pass it along to you on the backend with a higher price. No thanks. How about a real plan that actually addresses the problem and offers a long term solution.

[Hoof Hearted]

61. continue to dump, it makes you look good

[casus belli]

67. I'm not worried about what you think.

And given your lack of any cogent counter-argument, I'm inclined to think you may not have anything intelligent to offer anyway.

You won't save a dime. Period. Keep waiting on that check that will never come.

[Hoof Hearted]

71. I can only encourage you to continue.

[Hoof Hearted]

72. I can only encourage you to continue.

[cliffordu]

2. When I went on disability I had to get rid of my car -

If this gas tax pander is going to make THAT big a difference in FOOD to people, they need to buy a fucking bicycle.

I did.

[bluestateguy]

3. If someone is that poor, they may very well not even have a car

And what's to stop the oil companies and the service stations from not simply keeping the savings for themselves and raising the price by 18.4 cents?

[MercutioATC]

4. One in eleven Americans qualifies for food stamps.

I have a hard time coming up with a scenario whereby somebody can only afford 50 cents a day to eat and doesn't qualify for help.

That said, it's not a $30/month savings, it's roughly $30 for the entire "holiday" of 15 weeks.

[FrenchieCat]

46. It's a 1/2 tank of gas for the 3 months duration. period.

[Boz]

5. If you eat for a month on 30 dollars you don't have a home let alone a car.

[Texas Hill Country]

9. read the story, he lost his job during dot com burst, had enough to pay rent and gas to find a job

but that was it... he ate on 25-50 cents a day.

[onenote]

13. and was he driving 200 plus miles a week to look for work? Not likely

[Boz]

24. You sell your car to survive and use

public transportation systems. If he was driving it was by choice, which means the cost of food was choice also.

[Texas Hill Country]

40. what if you dont live in a place with pub transport and need a car to look for a job....

not everyone lives in a big city, ya know?

[Boz]

59. Then the only job you will get is where ever friends and family work, and you ride with them

This isn't elitist supposition or esoteric thought games.

This is life in Ohio for the last 15 years.

How did I fix it, I left to find work 8 years ago first to chicago, then the bay area after following the work to 23 states. I have walked the walk.

Not just my and my wifes reality, but the reality of hundreds of people I have known.

This story is not reality it is invented to fit a talking point, anyone in that position ever in their life would know that.

[scheming daemons]

6. THEY WON'T SEE A DIME OF IT

The article is based on a faulty premise.


Consumers will not see one dime of a "gas tax holiday".


But the OIL COMPANIES will.....

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Tell that Taylor Marsh wannabe that she ain't gonna get her tax holiday anyway.

You'd have to be pretty dumb, like this "Corrente" person, to believe that Hillary or John McCain can get this passed by Memorial Day. So that means it's nothing but pandering. The kind of pandering that only the dimmest bulb would fall for, and only a blatant shill like Taylor Marsh, or an imitator like "Corrente" would promote.

Fail. Fail. Fail.

[yewberry]

8. I know exactly what $30 means to someone who needs it.

And because this particular question has come up several times tonight on this forum, I'm just going to C&P my response from another one of these.

C&P initiated...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5832348&mesg_id=5833717

There are poor people in this thread who disagree with the "gas tax holiday" idea. I'm one. If you are suggesting that I don't know "REAL poverty," then you should apologize.

I recently completed two goddamned fucking years of national service for my country (and yours, btw). Do you know what my monthly pay was? Eight hundred dollars a month and a bus pass. Try living on that in Seattle. Fifty hours a week of service. Two years of falling further and further behind on bills, no dental care whatsoever, washing clothes in the sink, living on beans and soup, no vacations, no Christmas.

Have you ever seen people eating on TV and cried? Have you ever had to shop in the "old" section set aside for farm animals in a produce market? Ever paid rent with a credit card cash advance? Ever been sick enough to take your dog's leftover antibiotics? When's the last time you actually walked into a grocery store and left with NOTHING? How about hearing yourself referred to out loud, within the hearing of other people as qualifying for the clinic's homeless program? How's that sound to you? Sound good? Sound like big elitist ObamaFuck fun to you?

Please think twice before you make idiotic assumptions about things you know absolutely fucking nothing about. You don't know jack about what $30 might mean to someone who needs it just because they disagree with you about a candidate's position.

End C&P
(And my apologies for the tone...the other thread was pretty insulting.)

[Texas Hill Country]

14. I appreciate your service, and I have lived off of similar amounts at times in my life

i know what it is like too... i have had many of the same experiences at points in my life. So yeah, I know exactly what I am talking about.

The comment I make is to people that think that $30 is nothing. If you disagree with the policy, that is one thing. To blow off $30 as stupid chump change, that is another.

To many people, $30 means a lot.

[yewberry]

34. Thanks for the reply.

I do understand that you're addressing your post to people who think nothing of $30. (I almost can't imagine that!)

I think that people who feel that way really don't understand what it is to be broke, and dismissing real need is a very bad thing; at the same time, I don't think it's reasonable or fair for people who support the "gas tax holiday" to assert that anyone who doesn't support it is an elitist who doesn't care about lower-income Americans.

(And it felt really nice to be appreciated for my service--that's really rare! Thanks.)

[Texas Hill Country]

39. I have and will always respect those that gave this country years of their lives, and gave it

to me by extention. I am always grateful for that.


I have heard far too many people on here downplay how much $30 really is on here to so many people. I actually saw someone on here joke that there was probably $30 worth of change in their couch.

I can guarantee that there is not one penny in my couch, even though I am much better off now than I was years ago. I have learned that every penny does and can count.

I have found many of the comments on here to be incredibly disrespectful and it is this campaign that has highlighted why people in middle america call liberals "elites" more than any campaign I have seen in a good long time.

I am ashamed of those segments of this party.

[yewberry]

48. $30 worth of change in their couch?

They probably shouldn't invite me over for dinner! :rofl:

I absolutely agree that we need to fight against the notion that Dems and progressives are out-of-touch "elites"--we are the backbone of this country and we are what makes this country run.

I really wish that this board could get on board with that reality.

[Texas Hill Country]

52. i think we have much in common lol

[ecstatic]

10. Why do Hillbots HATE math, history, and economics?

Her plan has been tried before: It doesn't work, it puts consumers and the state in a worse position.

[Texas Hill Country]

21. I actually have degrees in history and economics, and love both... there is a difference b/t past

and present... the windfall tax fills the hwy fund, so the state does not suffer.

also, investigations and pressure on the oil companies will prevent collusion on raising the prices.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. How does your Queen get the windfall tax and the investigations past the current King?

By Memorial Day, no less.

[SoCalDem]

100. especially since she's "on tour"

:rofl:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

104. Standing on the backs of pickups across the land. nt

[book_worm]

11. I hear you, but except for talking about it what has she done to get it passed?

She says she wants it from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Memorial Day is three weeks away. Has she drafted a bill? Has she lined up co-sponsors? What is she doing to get this passed? If she believes so much in it why isn't she pushing it as a Senator? So far it's all talk and no action.

[Why Syzygy]

28. She'll blame Obama that it didn't get passed in time. Accepting wagers. nt

[FrenchieCat]

47. And that legion of Economists elite including her friend Krugman

who all say this is a bad idea.

[Why Syzygy]

97. She isn't going to cast her lot with economists, you know. Doesn't give a crap about OUR lot.

And she won't listen to Generals either. She doesn't seem very interested in facts on the ground, does she?

[VolcanoJen]

87. I'll take the over

For thirty bucks.

It's the shameless pandering to Hoosiers and Tarheels that pisses me off. Of course $30.00 means a lot to a lot of people. But she can't deliver. She hasn't even introduced legislation. And good luck getting that through committee, and through the House and Senate (no procedural shenanigans, of course, they'd never do that), and onto Chimpy "The Oil Prince" McFuckStick's desk for signing, in the next twenty days.

Where's the anger over the lie, that's what I'd like to know.

[last1standing]

What utter bullshit. Just more lies from the Hillary gang.

So this guy is so poor he has to steal electricity but he has a car that he fills up regularly. :eyes:

There is no chance on earth that this is anything more than a sob story created from whole cloth to play on others' guilt.

And oh yeah, it's $30.00 for THREE months, not one. And then only if he drives about 300 miles per week.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good lie. Your queen would never forgive you.

[onenote]

12. someone whose gas and electricity is shut off is commuting over 225 miles a week?

Pretty absurd sounding. If things are that bad, how can you afford to fill up the car at all? And where are you driving?

[Skittles]

15. the point is completely being missed

I'm not against the gas tax holiday because of its "piddling" payoff - I'm against it because it is a bandaid-on-a-gusher pice of simplistic CRAP idea - THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DESERVE BETTER. We need REAL FIXES, not ELECTION YEAR GARBAGE.

[Texas Hill Country]

17. she offers a long term solution as well, but recognizes the need for a short term one as well. you

people make it seem like she has not other plan and this IS her energy plan... its ridiculous

[Skittles]

22. what the FUCK do you mean by "YOU PEOPLE" ?

I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY OF THE CANDIDATES - THEY ALL SUCK.

[Texas Hill Country]

30. i meant obama supporters in general, sorry... i just start assuming around here, and you know what

you get when you start assuming...

i apologize.

[Skittles]

54. it's just that

way too much assuming is going on......no WAY am I an Obamabot nor am I a Hillbot - some of us see the truth in BOTH candidates :)

[VolcanoJen]

90. So who are you voting for in November?

That's a serious question.

[mcctatas]

16. So it is worth it to those folks who faced horrid situations to

place the estimated 300,000 highway workers who would lose thier income for the season due to layoffs http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/04/a_holiday_from_gas_prices.html
BENEATH thier need for $30? Who's out of touch? So we are now living Leviathan?



"Due to the scarcity of things in the world, there is a constant
and rights-based, "war of all against all" (bellum omnium contra omnes).
Life in the state of nature is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" (Thomas Hobbes Leviathan 1651)

[Texas Hill Country]

26. hmmm... and how does that happen when the hwy fund is not affected by Hillary's proposal?

[mcctatas]

42. Yeah...

superhillbot is really going to ram the windfall profits tax through congress. No freaking way, if this were a real issue (which it is not because it will never happen before summer anyway), she would have two choices, either "borrow" from the highway fund (which worked so well with social security) and promise to repay it when she gets her "windfall profits tax" passed (sometime after dick cheney dances cheek to cheek with Patrick Leahy) OR try to explain why she no longer supports the plan that she has crowed about with so much vigor as of late!
If you seriously think this is anything more than exploiting pre-existing social tensions for cheap political points on an issue that is purely hypothetical anyway (because despite what some hill supporters may think, she cannot act unilateraly) you are either a blind follower of a political figurehead who has not bothered doing even the briefest fact checking on the issue, or you are willfully ignorant of the information that is readily available...

[Why Syzygy]

37. It wouldn't hurt the toll road construction though, would it. It would even help them with

their competition with publicly funded roads.

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. Obama is all about doing nothing about anything. He's big on

"it's a big problem" but that's all you get, he'll figure out what to do later on. Meanwhile, Hillary is pushing for windfall taxes.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

55. Windfall taxes on Big Oil are sure to be signed by King George.

Just as soon as monkeys fly out of your ass.

[The_Casual_Observer]

77. It opens the door. Apparently you are happy with the way it is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

79. "Opens the door" when?

Next year, when it's too late to mitigate the damage done by the highway funds cut and the jobs lost now? Or when MONKEYS FLY OUT OF YOUR ASS but in enough time to get enough ignorant uneducated people to fall for your candidate's LIES??

[The_Casual_Observer]

81. with obama never, he'll do nothing, he's already said so.

you must think that oil prices are going to go down later on or something.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

84. Whereas your candidate wants to do something STUPID, which is so much better.

And Obama wants to do NOTHING, as detailed in his ENERGY PLAN, plainly available to anyone who isn't an IDIOT on his website:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/#set-america-on-path-to

Gawd, you Hillbots are annoying.

[The_Casual_Observer]

85. It's something. obama's hands are tied, he can't do a god damn thing

but offer "hope" & you are buying it. The last thing they want is any talk of windfall profits & the nitwit obamas are going right along with them.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

86. Hillary's offering pandering and lies, and YOU are buying it.

She cannot get any kind of tax cut through by summer and yet she is LYING to voters that she can. Why are you okay with that?

[VolcanoJen]

89. Hillary's the one co-opting the "hope" message for short-term gain...

... she can't deliver. She's buying votes for 30 bucks a pop and filling the heads of Hoosiers and Tarheels with gumdrop-dreams of summer relief.

What part is so hard about that for you to understand? You can flip it onto Obama as much as you want, but he's not the one making short-term promises he knows he can't possibly keep, just to get your vote now.

"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

[Gore1FL]

20. $30 a month for food?

really?

I assume they supplement the 10 boxes of crackers with ketchup and mustard from fast food restaurants...

[malletgirl02]

83. You are right.

$30 isn't really that much. $30 doesn't pay for a week worth of food for one person.Contrary to what some posters on this board say It's not elitist to point that out it's reality.

[TheDonkey]

94. ....

:rofl:

So funny because it is so true. $30 is food for a month? Um' in what reality??? Yes if the only thing you eat is ramen noodles but if that is the case then we have MAJOR issues to be addressing.

[Neshanic]

25. The Obama logic is this.

First he did not think of it.

Second if the gas tax was repealed all those people who do not have cars would be in imediate danger of all types of catastophe.

The people that do have cars only commute 3/4 of a mile on Sundays.

People who live in places like Phoenix and Los Angeles are fucked, as they should be because they deserve it by living there.

The money is chump change.

Trucks suck.

Tell your guy that mows your lawn to buy a Prius.

That kind of logic. No emotion, as they have a guy to install in the WH.

[scheming daemons]

29. Are you INSANE?

"First he did not think of it."

- Not only did he THINK of it, he worked for it... in Illinois. And it turned out to be a disaster. Something he admits and is the biggest reason he is against it now.


"Second if the gas tax was repealed all those people who do not have cars would be in imediate danger of all types of catastophe."


- Nonsense. He never said any such thing. You're talking out of your ass.


"The people that do have cars only commute 3/4 of a mile on Sundays."


- More bullshit.... never said or hinted by Obama.


"People who live in places like Phoenix and Los Angeles are fucked, as they should be because they deserve it by living there."


- Even more bullshit. Are you CAPABLE of telling the truth?


"The money is chump change."

- Not only is it "chump change"... CONSUMERS WILL NEVER SEE ONE DIME OF IT. The oil companies will raise their prices by the exact amount of the gas tax, wiping out any savings that the consumers would get. This has happened EVERY time a gas tax holiday has been tried. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.


"Trucks suck."


- More bullshit.


"Tell your guy that mows your lawn to buy a Prius."


- Yet even more bullshit.


"That kind of logic. No emotion, as they have a guy to install in the WH."


- Yes. We want a President that actually thinks through issues instead of making decisions based on emotion. We've had a President for the past 8 years that governed by tweaking Americans' emotions (mostly fear). It's about time we have someone who utilized reason in his decision-making process.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

56. I live in Phoenix, fuckhead.

Cutting highway funds would put a lot of people in danger here. Just how do you think the roads we drive on constantly are repaired, maintained, and improved?

Dumbass.

[Shakespeare]

64. I deserve to be fucked because I live in Los Angeles?

Please elaborate, and make sure you are crystal clear in your point.

[TheDonkey]

95. Is this some form of "free-writing" nonsense.

[boppers]

36. Oooh, anecdotes!

Here's mine.

The lowest I got under shrub, I paid for my internet, my water, and my electricity. I was down to moving a lightbulb around the house for when I needed it. I got three months behind on rent. I had no heat (Gas was shut off), and was living on ramen.

Wanna know what I wasn't doing?

DRIVING.

I couldn't afford to. I had to let the insurance lapse, I just couldn't afford it anymore, gas was too freaking expensive to waste.

She might has well have offered to reduce my annual HBO bill by 30 bucks, for all the good it would do for the job-seeking poor.

[Hoof Hearted]

62. continue to dump, it makes you look good

[boppers]

70. Not sure what you mean. eom

[boppers]

93. Oh, maybe now I get it.

You see, poor people like me don't get HBO.
We can't afford cable.

The comment about "cutting my bill" was about the disconnect people like the Clintons have from actual, real suffering people.

I'm sure she'll be great for those in the 97K-250K tax range, though.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Wow.......

So when will this "Summer" Tax to be a done deal? Summer's almost here!

I believe that those family would qualify for food stamps, in that case...really.

You're trying too hard, Kat.

[Quixote1818]

41. If you increase consumption by lowering the gas tax then prices will skyrocket

as supply drops. Idiot idea! Please stop promoting such lunacy.

[mcctatas]

44. You've got anecdotes...

now try facts:
Gas Price Fixes that Won't
May 2, 2008
McCain, Clinton call for gas tax relief that really isn't, while Bush dredges up old ideas with a variety of problems.

Clinton campaign spokesperson Geoff Garin said in a conference call this week that the proposal would save each driver $70. The Clinton campaign did not respond to our request to clarify how it arrived at that figure. But the non-partisan American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials estimates that the total savings for the average American motorist works out to about $28; for a two-car household, that would be $54.

That's IF prices actually dropped 18.4 cents per gallon. However, there's every indication that they wouldn't. Here's why: According to the basic principles of supply and demand, cutting the price of an item causes people to buy more of it. That’s why stores put items on sale. But when something is priced too low, consumers will buy it faster than it can be manufactured, which leads to shortages.


http://www.factcheck.org/gas_price_fixes_that_wont.html

[MidwestTransplant]

45. 1. It's fantasy because Bush won't sign it. 2. Thus how many highway worker jobs is $10/mo worth?

[FrenchieCat]

51. In other words.....just another bunch of bullshit for us to swallow.

$28.00 is saved for the ENTIRE 3 months.

And we are being told that otherwise folks will starve to death.

How tragic! :sarcasm:

So much hoodwinking, so little time!

Vote for No Drama, vote for Obama!

[Texas Hill Country]

63. you are thinking of McCains proposal, not the same as hillary's...

[MidwestTransplant]

65. No, because Bush won't sign a winfall profit tax, the oil companies won't pay

(it's HIGHLY debatable they even would under Hillary's plan because they would likely just raise prices).

[graycem]

49. I agree with part of what you say

to many people who are bordering poverty in this country thanks to Bush, $30 is a lot, the problem I have with the idea is she knows it's never going to happen. Why lie to people and make them think it will have any effect on their lives now? It won't, she knows it won't, it's just political strategy that in the end benefits the very people she claims to be saving them from, the oil companies. She should've separated herself from McCain and gone with a rebate of some sort for everyone if she really wants them to have money that would help. Find some stupid earmark in the Senate and send the most needy $50 and get it back later from the "windfall profits."

[FrenchieCat]

53. It's about 28 dollars for the entire 3 months, not each month.

Fast talking Hillary boosters are talking fast, playing shell games, and trying to Hoodwink us!

[graycem]

68. I know..

that's why I say if she really wants to help them, send them a check for $50 and be done with it.

[jillan]

66. Mustard sandwiches taste good when you are hungry enough.

People just don't get it.

More elitist bullshit.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

69. That windshield hurts when your head is going through it.

Because some dumbass thought cutting highway funds to pander for a few votes was a good idea.

[jillan]

73. Maybe if you would listen to what Hillary has to say about this you would know

that she is not taking the money from highway funds.

But no, it's easier to read what's on DU than to know what Hillary's actual plan is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

76. Yeah, Chimpy is going to sign a windfall profits tax into law by Memorial Day.

Suuuuure he is.

:eyes:

[whistler162]

78. You mean her "plan"...

to replace the funds removed by the 18 cent tax holiday with funds from a windfall tax on oil company profits that she has already said will be used for something else?

Isn't this what got her campaign in trouble, bad fiscal sense!

You want to bribe me 18.5 cents ain't a gonna do it!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

80. Oh wait, wasn't the windfall tax thing supposed to be for alternative fuels?

You're right!

Talk about a classic bait and switch. :grr:

[dbmk]

103. Take two steps back

1) Every economist agree that the gas price will rise to match the reduction in taxes, by simple nature of supply and demand. That means that the gas tax holiday will hardly get the consumer any savings at all , and only take money out of the Hwy fund. I DARE you to argument otherwise knowing you are up against EVERY economist that has spoken out against it - including 5 Nobel prize winners.

2) That leaves the call for windfall tax - which Obama has been calling for on every other stump speech.

That leaves the only difference between the two being the whole in the Hwy fund that Hillarys windfall tax also has to cover.

And that leaves out the whole concept of getting such a break passed currently.

[EFerrari]

74. That $30 will cost us millions in tax revenues --

more slashes to social progams, more profits to the oil companies.

People just don't get it.

[cliffordu]

88. Ya know what?

I live on Social Security, and cannot afford a car. I could use the 30 bucks but I have NO access to it.

I have very little sympathy for people who have to choose between food and a fucking car.

[crimsonblue]

91. sigh.....

it is a short term boondoggle which will hurt low income people worse in the long run... I know you hate math and statistics, but there are over 200 economists (including 5 Nobel Laureates since 2000) that all agree that this will hurt the economy. And sucks to be you, but the national economy is a little more important.

[VolcanoJen]

92. Serious question. Did gas prices only *suddenly* go up?

This campaign started in earnest the first week of January.

The average price of gas was then $3.11 (source: Consumer Reports)

The average price of gas now is $3.62.

Fifty cents a gallon is a helluva lot more than the eighteen cents per gallon savings that Clinton proposes. Why the sudden change of heart, when people have been suffering for five months now? She didn't even bring this up in Pennsylvania, and she had six weeks to campaign on it then.

If you don't think this is short-term political pandering, then you must have just arrived to the US, fresh off the boat.

Get real. Everyone. Seriously.

[livingmadness]

96. Then given how much $30 means

to people who, as you say, are struggling, you should be even MORE furious with the McCain/Clinton proposal. Seriously, for anyone struggling that much, to be exploited for political gain is just hideous. Knowing that people in such desperate straits will vote for the short term gain whilst risking worsening financial conditions as a result (as has already been outlined by others on this thread e.g. an actual rise in gas at the pump), is quite frankly appalling. Particularly given that getting that $30 'respite' will not be achievable even if it had more widespread support and pushing it anyway ... that's just every kind of wrong.

[SoCalDem]

98. I hope Hillie's ordered a semi convoy of ramen noodles

to deliver to the $30-a-vote crowd.. That's the ONLY way they're getting any noodles:rofl:

[cali]

99. ridiculous. I'm sorry but $10 dollars a month does NOT fucking make

a difference for even people who are really poor. What makes a difference? Full shelves at your local food pantry. Donate. Here we have a program that donates vegetables gleaned after the harvest to those who need it. Many families receive many pounds of organic vegetables.

[barack the house]

101. Sen Obama plans a genuine wage tax cut that is worth more tthan 30 bucks. Clinton has no cuts.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/18/obama.taxplan/index.html

[WeDidIt]

102. But not a single person will get $30 from the "gas tax holiday"

They did it in Illinois, which is why Obama knows what he's talking about.

They lowered the state tax and the oil companies jacked prices right back up, and in fact went higher than the price was before the removal of the gas tax.

And there was no "windfall profits tax" for the oil companies to pass along to the consumers, either.

[WoodrowFan]

108. we have a winner

Thank you. it's nice to have some facts here. The "gas tax holiday" is just a gimmick. Yes, there are people, LOTS of people, that need the $30.00. But the oil companies are nOT in that group.

[CreekDog]

105. they'll need it when they are forced to buy health insurance!

:dilemma:

[WoodrowFan]

106. I bet they'd like a unicorn too

I bet they'd also like a unicorn and a mountain made of rock candy. They're as likely to see those as the $30 McClinton is suggesting. As soon as the gas tax gets cut, than, gee, the oil companies will raise the price to make up the difference.

[AllentownJake]

107. This is stupid if you don't work you probably don't drive

If you can't afford food because you aren't working....what the hell are you doing driving? I would think if your not working your need to drive places everyday would decrease so instead of saving $30 you save $5.

You only save the money if you drive.