Keith Olbermann Isn't O'Reilly, He Just Plays Him on MSNBC

[McCamy Taylor]

I. Tonight My Husband Said What My 16 Year Old Son Has Already Said----KO Is Turning Into O’Reilly

It was at the end of his nightly anti-Clinton rant. Since tomorrow is an important day, and the polls are looking iffy, KO was more nervous than usual and he does not handle the stress well. It makes him surly. So, we were treated to such gems of journalistic excellence as

KO called attempts to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida the “nuclear option”.
He called Clinton’s proposed gas tax cuts “pandering”.
He called Clinton’s response to Obama ads which distort remarks Krugman made “attack ads”.
Milbank says Clinton is not “worried about casualties.”
Finally KO read this paper that sounded like someone at DU had written it---so I assume it was talking points straight from Richard Wolffe or the Obama camp, something I now know that he does, since I realize that he aired the “Tea Party Memos” as written.

When he was done, he looked so proud of himself. I am sure that Richard Wolffe did not tell him that to the working class men and women of America he looks like a corporate news caster who makes millions of years sitting in front of the TV camera wearing a shiny suit, spouting off a lot of fast talk about primaries and demographics and goal posts and boxing metaphors, when they are worried about the mortgages and their kid’s educations and their parents’ medical bills and the cost of gasoline. They figure that he is not talking to them, he is talking to the guys in suits in the back rooms, the Super delegates, whom Todd has just told them are all that matter from here on out.

Keith Olbermann does not speak to the people anymore. He speaks to those in power. He has been doing this for several months. He pretends that he speaks for the people, but I have not heard him utter a truly populist or concerned word in weeks. If he can milk something for political outrage, he will. But there is no heart or soul behind the words. He thinks he has found a higher purpose, not realizing that there is no purpose higher for a journalist than giving voice to those who are voiceless in this country.

Don’t believe me? Here is what KO has been up to. I picked a random week.


II. Seven Days in April from Countdown Chosen Entirely At Random that Sort of Suggest that He is Turning into That Which He Hates the Most

On his April 2, 2008 program, Keith Olbermann said incredulously of the Clinton campaign “Ed Rendell is saying FOX News gave them the best coverage, the most balanced coverage of the entire primary”.

What is the matter, Keith? You thought they were going to give that prize to you? Words can hurt, you know. When a formerly respected progressive TV anchor decides that one Democratic candidate needs to get out of the race---scratch that----the wrestling match, things can get pretty ugly.

Because I do not have days and days to spend on this, I will start with April Fool’s Day at random and just read through the transcripts for a while. If I find any inflammatory language applied to Obama, I will include it, too:


April 1 Clinton and/or her supporters “blast”, makes a “goof”, “picks up the hatchet swung last month by Geraldine Ferraro and swings it anew”, suffers from “post-traumatic campaign syndrome”, lacks “self-respect”

April 2 (Richard Wolffe helps) Clinton and/or her supporters “erupted”, have a “track record here of maybe saying one thing and doing another”(RW), “quoting Ronald Reagan”, “meeting with Richard Mellon Scaife”, “It‘s a sign of the apocalypse” (RW)

April 3 Clinton and her supporters. KO:“Are they thinking they got the message across that, you know, if you break for Obama, superdelegates we come after you?”
Milbank: “Yes, there will be payback if a superdelegate goes against them.”

April 7 (Richard Wolffe helps, so does Dana Milbank) Clinton and/or her supporters are “buying this delusion”, “your refusal to ever pull out of the presidential race becomes a punch line”, “siege mentality”, is “furious”, “Senator Clinton‘s reported fury”, “appearing to anoint a former president, Ronald Reagan”, “like watching somebody fall down of by the stairs in slow motion.”.” I think, this is all rolling together in one big snowball.” (RW) “dismissal of the primary process” “burned their bridges behind them” “they‘re consulting tarot cards to suggest their asteroids on a way or something”

KO:“this is like the joke about the guy executing the perfect 300-foot dive into the glass of water, only he forgot to put the glass of water in place”
Milbank: “Hillary Clinton has been under sniper fire and I think, we‘re beginning to see some of the post-traumatic stress disorder kick in here when the brain sometimes plays tricks on you.”

Is there a sense in the Clinton campaign that regardless of what happens in the campaign, I mean, if Senator Obama decided tonight, I‘m moving to Japan to play the cello professionally, that they may have painted their candidate permanently in the terms you just described, sort of serial exaggerator?

Or is it, are they really sitting there saying, no the media is against because they reported the facts rather than our versions of the facts, it‘s the media‘s fault all the way? Do they really believe that?

Oh no, Keith Olberman, there is no news media conspiracy to paint Hillary Clinton as a lying, cheating, insane bitch. No indeed. Where would anyone get that idea?

II. No Country for Old Women (in Politics) The Mainstream Media Attacks Against Hillary Clinton that Came Before KO.

Links for all the quotes below can be found in this journal:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/157

Chris Matthews: "I hate her. I hate her. All that she stands for." "She devil." "Nurse Ratched" "Madame Defarge." "fraud" "witchy" "uppity"

On Jan 9, O’Reilly (!!!!) called out Matthews for saying that Clinton only entered politics because her husband slept around.

Mike Murphy Hardball in December 2006: “If I were Obama, I'd get a food tester in, quick.”

Bay Buchanan on The Situation Room Jan. 1 2007: “The Clinton machine has got him in their targets and they love to work the personal.”

Also in 2007-8, Glenn Beck "She is like the stereotypical -- excuse the expression, but this is the way to -- she's the stereotypical bitch, you know what I mean?"

Tucker Carlson "But there's just something about her that feels castrating, overbearing, and scary."

Margaret Carlson called her a “domineering mother.”

Dana Milbank “Hillary Clinton was situated immediately behind Barack Obama , making it easier for her to actually place the knife into his back, if that's what she was trying to do.”

Fox News : “Hillary Clinton ... puts a lot of energy into revenge."

Lawrence Kudlow: “Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed Hillary's erratic, roller-coaster, mood swings these past few weeks?”

Jack Cafferty: “Resembling someone with multiple personality disorder, last Sunday, Clinton mocked Obama”

On Hardball ZUCKMAN: “It comes across as a little schizophrenic.”

George Lewis (quoting) “’ too New York, too elitist, too cold, if you will’’’

Andrew Sullivan "I just can't stand her. I'm sorry about that."

Peggy Noonan: “She has to prove she has normal human warmth, a normal amount of give, of good nature, that she is not, at bottom, grimly combative and rather dark”.

For those who want something meatier than sound bites, I discuss the media atrocities Hillary’s cleavage , Hillary’s cackle and Hillary is a traitorous lesbian bitch in this journal, “The Press vs. Hillary Clinton III Leaping Lesbians”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4977117

The quotes that follow are from “The Press v. Hillary IV Friendly Fire”
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/160

Arianna Huffington (from way back in 2006) “phonier than Alberto Gonzales' Senate testimony on domestic spying, sucking up the media oxygen”

The Nation “She is an unrepentant hawk, à la Joe Lieberman.”


Michael Mustow writing in the Village Voice told the world that she was having an affair with a female assistant who happened to be of Middle Eastern descent last summer.

From the Left: “Hillary Clinton: she’s filthy enough to make Karl Rove smile.”

Seth Grahame-Smith calls her a “monster” and worse.

Brent Budowsky writes “she has embarked on a campaign of personal destruction as her last hope”

She has embarked on a campaign of personal destruction as her last hope???

Do the people who write this stuff ever sit back and read it once they are done? Her last hope for what? Her own personal destruction? Oh, I forgot. She is a lying, scheming, lesbian, traitorous multiple personality disorder bitch.

Never mind.

III. It Couldn’t Possibly Be the News Media’s Fault that the Public Decided that Gore Has a Problem with the Truth or that Kerry was a Waffler or that Clinton is a Lying-Cheating-Bitch or that Obama is Scary and un-American, Now Could It, Keith Olbermann? Because We All Know that No News Media Has the Power to Persuade People of Things That Are Not True.

[cliffordu]

1. Sorry.

:nopity:

[JoFerret]

107. You know Cliff

Lack of fairness and decency toward a dem, and willingness to engage in sexist demonizing of anyone, are both unattractive traits.

"She's not a dem," is how some then respond.

And the answer to that nonsense is: Go live in your tiny tent and be happy because you will never be on the winning side in a GE.

[GoldieAZ49]

112. I don't think they want to win

they don't know how

[cliffordu]

189. You could work harder for a better insult.

but you're an intellectual vagrant.

fail

[cliffordu]

187. Nice.

fail

[gaspee]

249. Fail

See, I can do it too!

Fail has taken over for "whatever" for people who have nothing intelligent to say.

FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL --- that 's all they do, shriek fail at the top of their lungs, or paste some shitty graphic.

Pitiful.

[Bake]

363. It's the latest "kool kidz" jargon.

They teach it at the secret cult meetings. Don't forget "EPIC FAIL" also ... which represents an "epic failure" to communicate effectively, apparently.

Bake

[JoFerret]

386. I guess you have to frame the meme to fail?

or what?

[JoFerret]

385. What on earth does that actually mean?

.

[Andrea]

451. It means that the poster thinks they somehow have the

authority to dismiss not only your comments, but you as a person. It's their way of retreating to their superiority bubble when people start pressing them to think logically or confront facts.

[smoogatz]

241. 1.5 million donors.

That's some tiny tent, all right.

[papau]

310. NRA has over 5 million dues paying members - Outside of AA areas and college towns - nada

[smoogatz]

318. Apples/submarines.

The only comparison that applies is the number of Obama donors versus the number of Hillary donors, and we can't get Hillary's current number because she won't release it (ergo, it must suck).

Just to illustrate how dumb the Obama/NRA comparison is: the NRA has been around since 1871. That's how long it took them to build up their 5 million member base. Obama's been running about a year, officially. Give Obama the same amount of time, and at the current rate he'd have 205.5 million contributors.

[Bake]

365. "at the current rate."

There's your problem. "At the current rate." Nobody assumes he could continue to gain new contributors at the CURRENT rate, since your number is getting close to the entire population of the US.

Bake

[smoogatz]

378. Um, no. The problem is 137.

A gold star if you can figure out why.

[JoFerret]

412. NRA 5 million. That puts it in perspective

Its an impressive number of donations nonetheless. Is it actual donors? or donations?

[DMorgan]

339. Very small tent... only liberals allowed, and Republicans, and Independents.... and old and young,+

in a RAINBOW of colors.

Very small tent. NOT!

By the way, how many thousand donors does Hillary or does McCain have?

[svpadgham]

377. How come nobody

complained about you using "NOT?" You went with the old school version of "Fail."

[Andrea]

452. You have to use Not in conjunction with a dismissive remark.

"Fail" stands on it's own.

[JoFerret]

388. How many electoral college votes?

That many donors is impressive. It's an achievement. It does not necessarily translate into a democratic victory in November.

And however many donors there are (or is it donations?) if swathes of the democratic electorate are excluded, alienated, scorned, despised etc. then the tent is tiny. Very tiny. Smaller in number than it need be. And very tiny in vision and scope. Obama folk need to stop actively alienating other democrats.

[smoogatz]

403. Swathes? Like who?

I don't see anybody being excluded, unless you count the DLC-types—in which case their seclusion is self-imposed.

[JoFerret]

410. Ah the secret pleasures of self delusion, minority status and pure thoughts.

.

[smoogatz]

442. Ah, the standard and very public DU pleasure of the non-responsive answer.

Who's being excluded? All those gun-toting, pickup-driving, evangelical independents Terry McAuliffe keeps telling us about? Assuming they exist outside the imaginations of a few elite pundits, how are they excluded by Obama but not by Hillary? Is it because she likes to toss back a few shots of Crown with her draft beers at the end of the day? As if, you know, she hadn't gone to Wellesley and Yale Law and been a college professor (like me! Woo hoo! She's regular folks!) and wasn't worth a hundred million clams and hadn't lived in the White House for eight years, and the Governor's mansion in Arkansas for twelve years before that?

[JoFerret]

445. Etc.

Enjoy your fantasy of the "other".

[smoogatz]

447. Oh my God. You're afraid of the Big Black Mandingo!

Another sad little racist revealed. This shit is starting to depress me. Fortunately, the Primary That Wouldn't Go Away is almost over; with any luck Obama's nomination drive the likes of you back into the woodwork where you belong.

[JoFerret]

449. Your comment is a projection of your very racist imagination.

And as such quite revealing.

[smoogatz]

454. "Your fantasy of the 'other,'" you said.

About a guy who listens to the Bach Cello Suites. Who's projecting, again? Seriously, dude: back under the baseboard where you belong.

[JoFerret]

463. Who on earth are you talking about now?

Really - your fantasy life is amazingly limited to a narrow view. You project onto others (in this case me) some astoundingly crude racist views.

What's with the Bach cello suites? Who are you referring to? I like Bach a lot. Am I now your "other"?
If so, please get used to dealing with it.

[smoogatz]

470. Trying to slither out of your racist one-liner, are you?

Lots of luck, chump. Obama listens to Bach; he reads Shakespeare and Mellville. Some "other." That's YOUR twisted little mandingo fantasy, which, in the usual manner of Hillbots, you tried to project on me. Scuttle away now. I'm done with you.

[JoFerret]

480. More etc.

What racist one liner? You have built up an amazing race fantasy and then you have projected it onto someone else who had the temerity to question an assumption you made. As for Obama being cultured and well educated...well who ever suggested he was not? Where did that come from? Your ideas about what I might think emerge from your own fevered imagination. And as such they reveal a great deal about your willingess to trade in insult and racial stereotyping of a bizarre kind. What ever it is you have conjured up in your mind the origin of it is your own fantasy. Look at the language you use. Look at where your over active imagination led you. Look at your assumptions. Your rush to judgment is quite astonishing and very indicative.It began with a mistaken interpretation and ended with the racist stew of your fantasy life. Please do not project that insular view onto 'the other" - in this instance - that "other" being me.

[hendo]

448. and Hillary..

needs to stop doing everything in her power to ensure that if she doesn't get the nomination McCain will win.

[Andrea]

455. The problem is their goal.

They seem to think this is all about winning the nomination, instead of winning the election. If you try to press them about how they are going to win the general having alienated roughly half the party, they just declare "I have no doubt Obama will beat McCain" despite all indications to the contrary. Their hubris knows no bounds and they seem to think they can win the general by force of their own thoughts.

[The Doctor.]

426. So Olbermann has been 'sexist demonizing' Clinton?

The comparison of a liar to a non-liar merely because you don't like what the non-liar is saying is indicative of a very small mind.

I know this is lost on you guys, but do you think maybe one of the only legitimate TV commentators left on the air has a point if he's criticizing someone?

Does it occur to any of you to think; "Gosh, this guy I've loved and respected, who's never lied or unfairly attacked anyone before, is saying something I don't like... maybe he has a reason for it?"

Nah, not for a second. Her majesty is perfect so declares her majesty.

[JoFerret]

415. Knee jerk

You did not actually read the post. You just responded.
What does that make you?

[Mags]

2. He has turned into a joke. Nothing about him is open minded.

It's like he has a crush on Obama. It's kinda funny. Wait until the GE. He will continue to be the biggest joke on tv.

[Gore1FL]

4. He is just revolted with her

like many of us.

[Mags]

7. half the Democrats are revolted with BO, guess that works in his favor also.

[Gore1FL]

9. not half by a long shot

and only because he is beating the inevitable candidate.

[Mags]

14. wake up, half the Democrats will not vote for the Precious One.

[Gore1FL]

17. link?

[Mags]

21. open eyes and mind, that is the link , have you slept thru this event?

[Gore1FL]

31. No i watch it eagerly

and I keep seeing Obama winning a majority.

So I am guessing, because your lack of a link, you are still in the denial phase of loss. That is a long time for this phase as it started in Wisconsin.

[Beacool]

34. Let the kids dream on.

Their candidate is unelectable but they won't see it until November.

[elzenmahn]

40. ...and so is yours...

...because she will unify the right wing (remember they hate all things Clinton), as Obama can bring out the youth vote and the independents and crossover votes in ways that Hillary can't.

The only way she can even entertain the idea of getting back into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is with a "dream ticket". To which I say, "dream on".

[susankh4]

113. And then we'll have to say....

"I told you so."

I just hate telling kids that. Don't you?

[a la izquierda]

123. Excuse the hell out of me

but I am so sick of being called a kid. I'm fixin' to start calling HRC supporters a bunch of crazy old farts. I've been around the block a few times, despite my young 30 years. I am about to start teaching my first college class in less than a week. Kids? Give me just a small effin' break, okay? Oh, wait, I'm probably not a kid to most people, but a leftist elitist...which one is it?

[DMorgan]

132. Good post, and THIS kid here.... ME... first voted for Humphrey in 68!!! eom

[McCamy Taylor]

306. And that took guts with the Clean for Gene crowd saying he was the same as Nixon.

I put that in for historical context. It is hard to believe now, but back then Dems were so messed up that a bunch of mostly White college kids and upper income liberals would swear to you that Humphrey, whose base was African-American and working class, was a flaming hawk, right wing closet Republican. Humphrey had worked his ass off for the civil rights bills that passed under LBJ. He was a staunch old time liberal, but to the new crop of anti-war liberals like McCarthy and then McGovern he was the opposition so they called him worse names than Nixon and preferred to sit out elections rather than support him wholeheartedly.

[papau]

314. college kids and upper income liberals gave us Nixon - and now want to give us McCain via Obama

[a la izquierda]

437. "democrats" like you make me want to vomit...

blame, blame, blame. i may not have lived as much history, pal, but i study it for a living. 20/20 hindsight sure is a good thing
you know who my REPUBLICAN mother, a woman who's never voted Democrat in her life is voting for? Obama. spare me your asinine, fear-mongering projections.
I thank god every day that i will sit out the last few months of this embarrassing episode in another country that has a whole lot more to worry about than lapel pins, who's more to the "wright" or left the fallacy of the gender/race-baiting arguments on this board. i just don't think i can get out of here fast enough.

good riddance.

[hendo]

450. Wrong

Idiots who refused to show up to the polls gave us Nixon, just like whiney HRC supporters are going to give us McCain. She is not going to be nominated, get over it and support the nominee.

[Jakes Progress]

390. History is lost.

The poster doesn't seem to see the connection between then and now. Old Gene took his college crowd and went home to sulk. We got Nixon as a result. Back then i flirted with the idea of being a Geneiac, but a discussion with my Yellow Dog Democrat father helped me see through the mirrors. Then his sulking act was the last straw. I became tired of the "I'm purer than thou" crowd who refused to admit error and would rather see the country burn than admit they might be wrong.

[femrap]

175. Isn't the strategy of

'Divide and Conquer' that is being used by TPTB grand. Young v. Old. Male v. Female. Black v. White. And the Dems fall for it every time.

http://www.counterpunch.org/

Please read the article by Pamela Martens...it is something to think about.

[Andrea]

177. It's hard to believe we are that easy to

manipulate, but it appears we are. Thus we end up with the two most divisive candidates as the last two standing. It's time we woke up and took control of our own destiny.

[femrap]

366. Check out The Orion Magazine...

In the May-June 2008 Issue is an article by Jeffrey Kaplan....it blew my mind....gives a really good historic look at how our society became this way...so manipulated.

I took notes and am going to present it at my Living Simply Discussion group this evening.

I now understand how we are so easily manipulated....and how it is difficult to stop it since I'm not allowed to be on TV! lol.

[Andrea]

373. Thanks

I'll definitely check that out!

[McCamy Taylor]

303. Thanks. Good article.

[femrap]

362. Here's part 2 of the article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/

She has an interesting view on the creation of the Obama Bubble.

[BonnieJW]

220. I'm 59 and my husband is 61.

We're voting for Obama as are our daughters who are in their 30's. Well, that blows the whole demographic!!!

[madmunchie]

316. Isn't that the truth! Older women are supporting HRC....NOT! not this one at least

Women w/o college degrees are supporting HRC .... NOT!! not this one at least

Women earning less than 40/50$ a year are supporting HRC .... NOT!! not this one at least

I am really sick of people grouping women together - supporting HRC - like we are cattle or something!

I used to admire her and defend her like crazy, but unfortunately she really has shown a side to herself that has turned me totally against her.... Too bad it would have been nice to been behind the 1st woman POTUS and it would have been nice to see the Repubs run screaming into the night with the Clintons back in the WH. BUT HRC & Bill have really sunk to unacceptable depths this last several months AND thinking about 32 years with the same 2 families in the WH just doesn't seem right, at least not in a Democratic Society that is.

[Jakes Progress]

392. Would you consider the point of the OP?

Would you try to consider the idea that your views of Hillary, whom you used to champion, have been distorted and rearranged for you by the neocon controlled MSM? I know it is hard to admit that you might have been manipulated; no one like to think that they can be even though it is the basis of our consumer economy. This doesn't mean that you would have to vote for her or not vote for Obama. But it might mean that you could let go of the distorted view you have of a very good and very liberal Democrat. Her record and his record are almost identical.


I'm just asking if you would consider.

[hendo]

453. HRC has done it to herself

My wife used to be a staunch HRC supporter, as were my in-laws. Lately though, they have grown sick of her. To quote my wife, "She (HRC) has become everything that is wrong with politics."

[Jakes Progress]

461. And she feels this way because

of the news about her campaign, because of what she has seen on television and read in the press about how nasty Hillary is. Who wrote the news and editorials and broadcast the television and pundited her into the monster. Read the OP very closely and realize you've been scammed. So have the rabid Clinton supporters who vow not to vote for Barack.

[pollo poco]

251. Yes, it's not nice

to call young people kids.

So, I'm sure you'll understand the sting of ageism better now, and object to the dismissive language directed at older women in these threads?
You don't need to call Senator Clinton's followers a bunch of old farts. It's been done. Did you object?

I'm the same age as Obama, voting for Obama. My demographic is currently referred to as "hot flash feminists".
It's really insulting, don't you agree?



Now that I have defended your rights to be free from the insult of ageism, I can perhaps look forward to your future defense of Senator Clinton's followers from degrading ageist comments.

When I was a teen, I was taught that the suffragists were a bunch of wacky old broads. But they weren't. They were passionate young women who sacrificed all for my future right to vote. I was wrong to make fun of them.

How are the feminists of the 1970s portrayed today? Same deal. Defend them. They fought hard for our future when they were kids.

[Jakes Progress]

394. Thank you for this considered and considerate post.

[davidinalameda]

126. what are Hill's negatives?

thought so

[EOTE]

168. And it seems that HRC supporters are determined to make that the case.

This scorched earth type of campaign is hurting both of the candidates. And if Obama does end up losing this election, I won't think "Damn, I should have supported HRC.", I'll think "God damn HRC for running such a negative campaign for her own selfish wants." KO gets it, it's a shame so many of you don't.

[Jakes Progress]

399. If that's what you will think

then Karl Rove will be happy. That's what he wants you to think. He has been working hard to make you feel this way.

[eagertolearn]

190. Oh and that's why the repugs want her to win so bad???

[McCamy Taylor]

315. Isn't Obama still getting a lot of the GOP vote?

[eagertolearn]

348. Yes but everyone I know that is republican that will vote for Obama

in the GE will vote because they like him. I do know many who changed from republican to Democrat (my husband being one) to vote for Obama in the primary. Many currently won't change back to republican because of where their party has gone!

[JoFerret]

498. They do?

Since when?

[delt664]

264. I have been hearing this meme forever.

What is it that Hillary and her supporters know about Obama that noone else does that makes him unelectable? I think now would be a good time to reveal this secret.

[eagertolearn]

349. I think it is because he is black...but they can't say that out loud!

[dionysus]

149. hey shillbot, at least we'll vote for her is she wins. your petulant whining and "i won't vote"

attitude makes *you guys* look like spoiled little babies...

[digidigido]

225. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that

[kevinbgoode]

183. Right..and all the Democrats will gladly gather round the "unifying"

light of Hillary Clinton - because, after all, she has this amazing history of bringing people together.

[barb162]

46. Take a look at the latest polls; Obama's dropping like a brick

[MaryRN]

81. Good.

[Divine Discontent]

88. amazing what denial will allow one's self to believe

Obama is going to win in NC (win by 8-12%), and he's going to do decent in Indiana (lose by 4-8%) despite the massive fraud by whomever in the state elections board throwing over 1 million people off the roles, mostly black.

I wish your choice well, but I believe she ought to hand it in come Wednesday and back Obama, anything else is further denial which encourages her most energetic supporters, when he has a large delegate lead at this stage of the primary.

[barb162]

186. You better take another look at the very latest polls

He'll probably win NC by single digits, down from double digits just a few weeks ago. I doubt there's fraud in IN. If people have registerd to vote, they can ask for a ballot.

[Divine Discontent]

413. I don't think he'll have any problem in NC.

IN, sure, but that's the way it's been in the Midwest, her with slight leads, but it's a 50 state race, and he's won it as far as I can see...

Now, if she wins Indiana by 55-45 and NC is a virtual tie - then there's some super heat on Obama to get the backing of SD's ASAP.

[papau]

317. 4 to 1 ad budget - 10 to 1 ground budget - but he still can't put her away

[rocktivity]

329. Actually, that should be "4 to ZERO" ad budget

You can't help but outspend somebody who hasn't not ANY money.

And Obama's had her put away since the second Super Tuesday when Hillary failed to all the contests with more than 60% of the vote--which is why she'll have to win ALL EIGHT of the remaining contests with at least 70% of the vote to pass him.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Exilednight]

131. It's obvious you haven't looked at the latest polls. Admittingly he took a minor dip, but he is ...

going back up again.

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_democratic_presidential_primary_tracking_polling_history



Just something else to remember. Neither the primary or GE are decided by a popular vote. Theoretically a person could get 1% of the vote and win the GE.

[ExPatLeftist]

159. How do you like the taste of your feet?

...and how did you get them both in your mouth?

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1499

Unless bricks levitate upwards in your alternate reality, then you are completely wrong.

[eagertolearn]

194. Which polls are you watching? I guess it's not the same one's the people

and the super delegates are watching.

[PassingFair]

287. Good thing he got in the requisite votes BEFORE the reich wing...

and Hillary's DLC wing tag teamed him.

He has the mathematical win ALREADY.

HE CAN'T LOSE, unless she CHEATS.

It will be interesting to see how many
"democrats" here will still be standing
beside her if that happens.

[Hawaii Hiker]

26. Hard to believe some Democrats are that stubborn, that they'll vote for a vapid, phony,

broken down senile old man, who is the 3rd. Bush term, John W McBush...

I'm an Obama supporter, but would vote for Hillary Clinton without heistation if she's the nominee....

Any true Democrat would be content to vote for Clinton or Obama over ANY Republican, especially one as awful as McCain...

[elzenmahn]

41. ...since nose holding isn't accounted for on the ballots...

...I would vote for HRC in case she pulls it out, but I would need to bring a gas mask and oxygen equipment with me in order to do so.

[pokercat999]

116. Ah, any democrat would be happy to vote for

either re-thug left in the race if Obama is eliminated......I get it.

According to Mrs. Clinton only she and McCain are qualified to lead on day one. And you call her a democrat? :rofl:

From what I've seen over the last 8 years a dead horse could "lead" this country, It's WHERE we're being lead that's important not by WHO is leading!

Clinton and McCain are both lost and their compass is stuck on Fascism.

[Clark2008]

138. That settles it... I'm voting for Eight Belles.

At least she gave it her all and she is a dead horse, now, unfortunately.

(When are they going to ban horse racing?)

[pokercat999]

483. Glad I missed the race. Dog racing is even worse than

horse racing.

[Old and In the Way]

471. This Obama supporter agrees with everypoint you made.

No question, I want Barack to win, but I'll happily support Hillary if she somehow can make the numbers work. This election is too important for the supporters of either candidate to let their primary choice help elect McCain in November. Someone's got to lose the primary, but that is meaningless when the real prize is going to be on the line in the GE.

[elzenmahn]

37. likewise

1/2 of the Dems, if not more, will likely not vote for Hillary either.

[susankh4]

114. The real Dems will vote for her.

But not the Ray-gun defectors.

And that says alot.

Go Hillary!

[jhrobbins]

283. I just don't understand why we have gotten to this point of extreme

polarization. I am for Hillary, but I will certainly vote for BO if he is the nominee, but it seems like so many in here don't feel the same way and it scares me. If the republicans had wanted to author a script for McCain, they could not have done better than we have done to ourselves. Shame on us.

[McCamy Taylor]

313. Remember CREEP 1972? This is CREEP II. I write about it at least once a month.

But the news media keeps doing what they are told to do and the Freeper agitators on this board do their thing. And then the idiots like KO respond to the CREEP dirty tricks, throwing more oil onto the fire---at which point the RNC can just sit back and toast marshmallows.

Wouldn't it be funny if every single person posting flame bait on a message board like this was a plant and there were no real Dems at all, and all the real Dems were shaking their heads and going "Wow, I don't know anyone like that in real life!"

[Jakes Progress]

405. It is becoming obvious to those who visit

this and other supposedly progressive sites that there is a large number of paid trolls or neocon plants. I am coming to believe they are the majority of the highly partisan posters from both sides. We need a name for them. I don't see this nastiness or this virulent personality partisanship at political gatherings in the real world.

I know places like this dote on the privacy of anonymity, but I wonder what it would look like if all posters had to use their real names and addresses.

[McCamy Taylor]

414. LOL. CREEPsters? PlumbersToo? Marios? MolesRUS?

My husband used to work at Motorola. Another employee made a fake badge and wore it for a while. The name on the badge was "GE Spy". No one ever noticed.

I sort of like "Marios" though I am not sure that everyone would get it.

[MoonRiver]

108. "half the Democrats will not vote for the Precious One"

I'm starting to believe that is the goal of many so-called O fans.

[leftynyc]

121. Only if they're self destructive morons

Not voting for whoever has the D behind his/her name because their candidate didn't win is petulant nonsense and I have no patience for those who indulge it.

[totodeinhere]

125. When you call O something like the "Precious One" your hate shines through loud and clear.

[delt664]

260. Democrats who refuse to vote for the democratic nominee (whoever it is) are NOT Democrats.

I believe those are called Independants or Republicans a la Rush and his Operation Chaos.

Nothing done in either the Clinton camp or Obama camp has been so heinous that a true Democrat or Patriot would rather see this country continue to go down in flames than vote for someone other than their first choice (or second if you were an Edwards supporter)

If what you say is actually true, then this country is lost.

[YDogg]

282. agreed. and I voted for edwards

[Jakes Progress]

407. I think we need to consider that the republican lite

crowd, those leaning Democratic, will be quickly shepherded back into the GOP fold by the fear and hatred campaign that McCain will run. It has worked for them since Reagan. Sometimes it is a campaign to be scared of terrorists or gay marriage or the hate Mexicans and gays. This time they have it all. MSM has joined with RoveCo to create the perfect storm for the mean and scared. They can hate Hilalry and be afraid of Barack.

I'm hopeful that the real world is not as narrow as we see in blogland. If the kind of narrow mind and hatred that I often read on DU is indicative of the electorate at large, we have already lost.

[roguevalley]

295. so, you speak for half the party? Tell us where you get your wisdom.

[papau]

312. 22% of each side will not vote for the Other - same dif - same problem for Saint Obama

[JoFerret]

391. It's approximately half and half

in the popular vote. True - that the majority on one candidate will stay with the other. but it is not automatic. Not to be taken for granted.

[Andrea]

456. "only because he is beating the inevitable candidate"?

Dream on, buddy. I've been against Hillary for two years and he worries me to death. He has managed his image so poorly - indicative of his gross lack of experience - and he has no message. If he gets this nomination, it's 1972 all over again - only McCain is far worse than Nixon ever dreamed of being.

[KansasVoter]

11. Not quite half!!! There goes your math again!

[Mags]

16. why if he has soooo many dems in his pocket, has he not put it to rest.

he will not get the Hillary votes in the Ge. ,maybe some but most will not stand with him. He is toast. Sorry

[JanusAscending]

29. If that's REALLY the case,

then it seems that many Hillary supporters are DINO'S !! This is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. If you vote anything other than Dem. In Nov., you will have no place at this table, or in this Forum. The same goes for any of us who support Obama. If by some freak of fate he is not our nominee, we must support a Democrat, or we have no place here either!!:mad: :rant:

[Mags]

47. I've been here a lot longer then you, but if I have to leave

DU, so be it. I am a Hillary, she has not lost yet.I will gladly leave if that is the request of DU. Not you.

[JanusAscending]

68. The length of time one has been here has nothing to do with it.

Will YOU vote for whomever the Dem. nominee is? I will. So let's just wait and see who leaves or stays.Many people have been DU members as long as you, and hardly ever post. Compare your count to mine, and see who's more informed and involved. You are making a laughing stock of yourself, and all the other DINOS, be they Clinton OR Obama supporters. Shame on you. You need a refresher course on the DU Rules!

[JTFrog]

90. Aw come on, Mags says she is a Hillary, wouldn't you like to be a Hillary too?

No need for that refresher course on DU when you are a Hillary!!

Rules?!? Rules?!? We don't need no stinking rules!!

:rofl:






I don't think Hillary can break the new rule:

1.5 Million+ donors.

James Carville says: "That's not a fundraising list, that's a political party!"

[JanusAscending]

462. Helloooooooo

Amen!

[iconicgnom]

320. so you plan on sticking around to troll the board for McCain? n/t

[leftofcool]

74. And yet........over 50 Obambi supporters

said they would vote for McCain over Hillary. Should they leave now or later?

[JanusAscending]

76. Well I'd say, wait and see if they really do it,

and when they do, if they make it known that they did in fact vote for him, they don't belong here anymore than any other DINO ! there, does that answer your question? If they are DINO'S, why bother to come back here?

[papau]

321. Obama fan threats to vote McCain get "wait and see if they really do it" - Obama's new rules on DU

[beezlebum]

128. i won't vote for mccain. never. not EVER.

i'll write in obama- i'd even be a part of a campaign to do it; if not, kucinich, or edwards in the unlikely event she gets the nom.

but i will never, ever vote for hillary clinton, and if she wins the nomination, then i will leave DU without being asked, because i am well-aware of the rule that we're required to support the nominee.

Mags says that half the party won't vote for "the precious one"- well i've met some far more gracious obama supporters who would vote for hillary, but the republicans, the ones that would boost him in the GE, like my husband and some extended family members and friends, those "crossover voters" and indys who are happily supporting barack obama would never vote for a clinton- she would lose those people he reaches out to, not just the ones rush has voting for her, and she would lose "not-real-democrats" (seen upthread) like me.

and as for "not-real-democrats," i am a democrat through and through, and i don't know how you could define me by the fact that i refuse to support someone who is aligned with murdoch, sciafe, john "experienced" mccain, someone with such awful behavior recently (the sky will open up, shame on you, you-might-be-a-muslim-if, wright, etc etc etc), who voted IWR, and then kyl/lieberman, who promised to obliterate iran (where she officially lost my even pinched-nose vote), and didn't even bother trying to push that she misspoke and in fact reiterated it.

obama may not be pacifist, but he's by far less a warmonger than hillary clinton. in my eyes, the clintons aren't just "moderate dems," they aren't even "conservative dems." in my eyes, they might as well be on the same team as john w mcbush- they've batted for them after all.

[snort]

231. damn you! get out of my brain!

my exact thinking, nicely summarized.

[Jakes Progress]

409. As the OP has said

your thinking is the product of Karl Rove's planning. Now you get to be GWB. Rove is your brain too.

[CaptJasHook]

354. You're speaking to the voice in my head as well.

Added onto the fact that if Hillary were elected, we would have 4 more years of THISGATE and THATGATE. In the end the country would move nowhere and then... Unsurprisingly, Democrats would get the blame.

[digidigido]

226. I couldn't vote for McCain, I would however seriously look at 3rd party progressives

[MaryRN]

84. He'll never get my vote.

[Technodaoist]

254. Gee...

I was wondering the same thing about Hillary... Why couldn't she close on Iowa or exploit the "Inevitability Factor".


O wait! She's been using the Rovian playbook! Attack your enemies strengths and project your own weaknesses on them...

Don't think you have enough experience to beat the ancient offering the republicans are putting up? Project it.
Can't seem to finish the deal and "close"? Project it.
Did your own actions disenfranchise voters in MI and FL? Project it.
Are your rebuttals actually attacks in disguise and backhanded compliments? Project it.


How many of Hillary's complaints about Obama could be applied to her own campaign? Try an unbiased look sometime.

You might actually figure out WHY people don't want anything to do with her or her willingness to use tactics that ALL democrats have decried for 8+ years.

[McCamy Taylor]

323. Before Iowa, Bob Novak said Clinton had "dirt" on Obama---Obama called CLINTON out.

I mention this because Novak was a participant in CREEP 1972 who played dirty tricks on McGovern ("abortion. acid and amnesty"), he works with Karl Rove and the WH, he is a liar and he even admitted later there was probably no dirt. Everyone knew that there was probably no truth to his story. But Obama decided to go out in public and accuse Clinton of being a dirty trickster based on the word of Bob Novak before the first primary in a state which everyone knows hates a dirty trickster more than anything else.

So, you want to cast any more stones about dirty tricks before Iowa?

Both candidates are politicians. Both sides have played hardball, to borrow one of the sports metaphors that the good old boys at MSNBC are so fond of using.

[Technodaoist]

352. layer upon layer

So...

"Everyone Knows"

Gotcha. You mean like the guy at the Washington Post who wrote this?

The Obama campaign lashed out at the report, saying it was "devoid of facts, but heavy on innuendo and insinuation of the sort to which we've become all too accustomed in our politics these past two decades."
The Obama challenged Clinton's campaign to either make the negative information public "or concede the truth: that there is none."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/17/clinton_obama_feud_over_novaks.html

To paraphrase what Obama said "Novak's full of shit. So either out with it, Ms. Clinton, or we all move on." Obama called NOVAK out. Hillary's silence would be taken as tacit agreement with Novak's statements.



Keep trying to move on.

[McCamy Taylor]

416. "Obama challenged the Clinton campaign" and Clinton denied it.

And then, Bob Novak said "Oops, now I am pretty sure that there was no dirt after all. That Obama just scored some political points for himself by accusing Clinton of using dirty tricks before Iowa." I paraphrase, but he really did say this at FOX. That is how RNC divide and conquer works.

[delt664]

269. Cant close the deal meme?

Played out. If Hillary is so perfect and Obama is so unelectable, why hasnt SHE closed the deal, put it to rest, or whatever you want to call it?

How about this: its a moderately close race, and any "cant close the deal" or "Unelectable" memes are invalid. For either candidate. WTF is going on that we cant just agree that both candidates obviously have merit, and may the best candidate win.

[eagertolearn]

351. Dirty tactics work with the crowd she is attracting...It's an insult to their intelligence by HC

[Brundle_Fly]

18. only

18 cents of them wont.

[truebrit71]

142. Half? Seems you suffer from the same fuzzy math problem as your Queen...

...:eyes:

[mcctatas]

10. Or it's like he sees through her bullshit and is disgusted by

her rovian tactics. Of course he was lauded by most as a true voice for progressives until he dared to speak truth to the power of the clinton machine....
:eyes:

[LaStrega]

28. BINGO! n/t

[slay]

104. LOL - You nailed it!

Keith rocks - screw the haters. I'd vote for a good woman running for president (Barbara Boxer anyone?) - however - THERE ISN'T ONE! Jeez this is getting as bad as OJ not being guilty just cause he is black. Are women really voting for her JUST cause she is a woman? Shiiiiit.. with that kind of (ahem) logic I should go vote for McCain cause he is a white man like me! :sarcasm:

[mcctatas]

176. You mean you are a pandering warmonger and Joe Lieberman

is your hetero life mate? ;)

[McCamy Taylor]

326. OJ was not guilty because the LAPD tampered with the evidence and corrupted the case

which was entirely based upon circumstantial evidence. Race was the red herring which convicted him in the court of public opinion. The glove would not have been taken to his property and thrown over the fence were he White in which case the evidence would not have been tampered with. This might have lead to his prosecution. Or, the LAPD might not have bothered if he were a famous White athlete. We will never know.

LAPD procedural misconduct also prevented the city from prosecuting crack cocaine dealers who were working with the CIA during the Reagan-Bush administration which would have broken open the CIA-Cocaine story according to one account. This is why the police need to be absolutely scrupulous in their conduct.

[slay]

469. So... Keith sucks and OJ is not guilty?

Hrmm. Ok, I'll try this one. Technically, he (OJ, not Keith) was found not guilty at his criminal trial - of which 2 of the jurors wish they could go back and change their vote, and we both know how his civil trial turned out. However I do believe that evidence probably was tampered with. Doesn't mean he didn't do it though. I mean seriously, is OJ out there looking for the "real killers" (wink wink) like he said he would? No. He's playing golf and threatening sports memorabilia dealers. I could have cared less if he was white black or purple - but I believe the civil verdict to be the correct one. And what about his book "IF I Did It"? I think maybe the cops knew he did it but were not convinced they had the evidence to prove it.

Anyways, I know all about "Freeway" Ricky Ross and his CIA cocaine supplier from back in the 80's. There is a great movie out now that exposes the CIA importing cocaine to fund their little black ops missions (and the LAPD's involvement in it) called "American Drug War: The Last White Hope" by Kevin Booth. It's playing this month on Showtime and out on DVD - and believe me, I question authority pretty much every chance I get.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Drug-War-Last-White/dp/B0015XASZ8/

[hell-bent]

160. Perhaps KO is getting that "thrill up the leg" like Tweety.

[sallyseven]

192. He will then switch to McShame

The entire NBC programing staff will. From Matt Lauer to Dan Abrams. The whole bunch of GE Folks. They pay the bills and the lackies are not allowed to forget it. Keith Olbermann as a maverick is just blowing smoke up your backside.

[McCamy Taylor]

343. GE can live with either McCain or Obama because both think nukes are green

and GE makes billions each years on nuclear energy---and it wants to start building a new fleet of Chernobyls in the US.

My prediction for an Obama presidency. We will not see universal health insurance. We will see the start of the first nuclear power fission plants this century. And neither of those two makes me happy. But I can still vote for him, over McCain.

[Shakespeare]

350. That's a LIE.

Obama doesn't believe that at all. As I'm still undecided (former Edwards supporter), I was watching him very closely on MTP this weekend. When Russert asked him about nuclear energy as an alternative to fossil fuels, his answer was that nuke plants as currently configured will NOT work, but said that research should continue to find out IF there's a way to make the designs consistent from plant to plant, and IF it's possible to handle the waste in a responsible way.

Or is that too nuanced for you?

[McCamy Taylor]

422. I didn't realize that Obama's dirty nuclear secrets were hurting him. That is why GE had him on.

Here is a journal I wrote after the weird 20 point Newsweek poll came out and I was trying to figure out why they wanted Obama supporters to read that online edition of Newsweek. It was a "nukes are green" extravaganza with a cover story and an article by a former environmentalist extolling the virtues of fission---which we all know will leave us up to our eyeballs in nuclear waste for 1000s of years.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/194

Exelon, a leading nuclear-plant operator based in Illinois, is a big donor to Obama, and its executive and employees have given him more than $70,000 since 2004. The Obama staffer pointed out that the senator pushed for legislation that would require nuclear companies to “inform state and local officials if there is an accidental or unintentional leak of a radioactive substance,” according to an office press release. Obama took a stand on that issue following reports that a plant operated by Exelon had leaked tritium several times over the past decade.

But Exelon is probably not entirely unhappy with Obama. At a 2005 hearing at the Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works, of which Obama is a member, the senator—echoing the nuclear industry's current campaign to promotes nuclear energy as “green”—said that since Congress was debating “policies to address air quality and the deleterious effects of carbon emissions on the global ecosystem, it is reasonable—and realistic—for nuclear power to remain on the table for consideration.” He was immediately lauded by the industry publication Nuclear Notes , which said, “Back during his campaign for the U.S. Senate in 2004, said that he rejected both liberal and conservative labels in favor of ‘common sense solutions.’ And when it comes to nuclear energy, it seems like the Senator is keeping an open mind.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdMHHIO5tQM

Here, during a debate, Obama repeats the "nukes are green" message while Hillary says she is "agnostic" on them preferring wind and other solutions until they find a way to take care of waste and other problems---that means until they perfect fusion power, which I also advocate.

The links and a lot of info about the billions that GE makes each year and their plans to build nukes in the US (along with Exelon) are described in my journal.

McCain and Obama are both friendly to the nuclear energy industry, even though the US with its history of lax government oversight and shoddy plant construction and poorly run operations that emphasize the bottom line more than safety make another Three Mile Island or (heaven help us) Chernobyl almost inevitable. We are not Japan or Western Europe where companies do quality work. This is the USA where companies try to get rich doing as little as possible.

Oh, almost forgot. The Cheney Energy Bill that Obama voted for and Clinton vetoed--loaded with goodies for nuclear energy.

Nuclear energy using fission is the one make or break issue that makes me most skeptical about Obama. Chernobyl was a nightmare. I don't like having a candidate whose first big donor was a nuclear energy industry leader.

[Shakespeare]

434. Anybody who thinks further research into nuclear energy as an alternative shouldn't be pursued is...

...a clueless, ill-informed luddite. His response to Russert--calling NOT for Cheney-esque approaches to nuclear energy, but for further investigation of it as a safe alterantive at some point in the future is a perfectly reasonable response that ALL of us interested in alternative energy sources should be supporting, whether it's coming from Obama or Gore or anyone else. Throwing out the word "Chernobyl" as a rhetorical boogeyman without fully giving the context of a very important debate on alternative energy is, at best, intellectually dishonest.

"I wrote a journal..." blah, blah, blah.

The garbage you wrote is ill-sourced and taken out of context.

[McCamy Taylor]

494. Obama has done favors for the nuclear power industry and they believe he is their ticket

to a new wave of fission plants. I hope that he is just telling them what they want to hear, and that when he gets into office he gives them the big kiss off. Because this country can not do fission safely. Not unless our business ethic changes dramatically.

[jhrobbins]

I have loved KO for a long time, but I don't like this side of him -

I suppose it is OK for a pundit to take sides nowadays ( it certainly wasn't during the days of Brokaw, Rather and Jennings and before) but he is really quite transparent in his dislike for Clinton and this has really surprised me, especially when he rails at others for the same thing. I don't think the other pundits on the 'real' channels are so obvious in their support - FOX doesn't count here.

[Enthusiast]

477. This "side of him" is only his

This "side of him" is only his response to Hillary's kneecapping Obama. Really, I was a wholehearted Clinton supporter but her Rovian behavior has alienated me. I suspect KO feels the same as I do. I am trying to be as honest with you as I can. I wish you would at least entertain the possibility that Hillary could have actually done better without the negativity.

[roguevalley]

293. what a pathetic thread. the only person with balls enough to take on

bush and to call bullshit on EVERYONE who bullshits and you are kicking him around. I think the only laugh in the GE will be me enjoying the new president, Mr. Obama. THERE IS NO PATH FOR VICTORY FOR HER THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE CHANGING THE RULES MIDSTREAM! THAT IS CALLED CHEATING IN THE REAL WORLD. I think we've had enough stolen elections for my lifetime. Kicking Olbermann. Sad.

[McCamy Taylor]

333. Read the CounterPunch article. Obama has spent $52million on pr to make you think this.

He will spend more. Everyone out there who thinks that your take on "the rules" is something that you always knew or that has always been out there---no, it was all dreamed up in a campaign strategy session in the Obama Camp and then market tested and spread by a professional pr firm.

In 1972 the party has punked by Nixon and Buchanan The SDs were created to correct for Republican interference. This year we have had Republican interference. The SDs know what there job is, but they are battling $52million in pr.

[Andrea]

338. Very true

I did not realize that Obama had an ad campaign that was contributing to the huge amount of ignorance among the electorate as to what the party rules are. I don't watch the ads. I will read the article.

[Jakes Progress]

411. And the problem is that any pr firm

can take their "message" into the media not as ads but as articles. Hence the KO mess. I used to love watching him skewer Bush, so it's hard to know whether he is manipulating or being manipulated. Probably some of both. He knows that Be Oreally makes a lot more money than he does. Maybe he has figured out that that is how to get the big bucks.

[snooper2]

387. who has turned in to a joke?

:rofl:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=114396

[datopbanana]

3. NO JOINT TICKET

:0

[KansasVoter]

5. LOL......Olbermann is the only one telling the truth!!!

[Skittles]

8. he's only doing the "truth" on ONE CANDIDATE

that makes it MORE ANTI-HRC than ANTI-REPUKE

[LaStrega]

30. Kinda like HRC's comments concerning McC v. BHO n/t

[Skittles]

39. HRC is a POLITICAN

Keith is NOT

[satireV]

77. Keith isn't a politician

And he isn't a journalist either.

He is just another "Paid Advertisement"

[BlueCaliDem]

82. And that excuses her behavior pumping up McC while denigrating Obama?? Are you sure you're a Dem? nt

[Name removed]

48. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

49. Yeah, he never seems to see anything negative with Obama n/t

[Skittles]

53. he's blind

because there are plenty of Obama negatives....but I would prefer he would stick to the meme of how fucked up America would be with continued repuke rule

[JVS]

54. Maybe he's decided to settle with the lesser of the evils and thus spares Obama

[Skittles]

63. maybe he should just stick to bashing McCAIN n/t

[JVS]

He can do whatever he wants, you're not his boss.

[Skittles]

66. he trotted himself out as a kind of ANTIDOTE to the likes of O'REILLY

THEN HE BECAME O'REILLY.

And I am DONE with you....it's like conversing with a SECOND GRADER.

[JVS]

69. A year ago I would have valued your assessment, but your behavior in the last few months makes ...

your words a meaningless jab.

[mcollier]

110. So the arguement is

KO supports Obama

Oreilly supports Clinton


I would respect the judgment of KO over Oreilly anyday.

I watched KO last night and I was concerned by his anti Clinton rants throught the whole show... And I love KO. But he was pointing out how rediculous her campaign has conducted it's self. If her campaign is so weak that they have a hard time telling the truth, I guess the projection that Hillary has balls is not a bad strategy....

[eagertolearn]

221. You forgot the others who support Hillary....

Rush (and others like him), Lou Dobbs, all on Fox news. Even with all her smear tactics and with help from so many repugs and connectons to disenfranchising voters she still can't pass up Obama up. He has taken the high road and it worked for him. Hopefully this is the start of new politics that is long over do! Many of the states she won by telling lies the day before the elections or throwing out panders like "obliterate Iran with a nuclear bomb" (I guess she was trying for those jewish votes but I think it backfired) or now the giving you a "gas tax holiday" or in Ohio the NAFTA lies that ended up actually being her that was making the deals in Canada! Don't forget the current robo calls through WVWV to disenfranchise mostly black women voters. She has taken the path of insulting her own followers by hoping they would fall for her smears (notice how the "thinking" super delegates haven't been falling for them). I started as a Hillary follower and when she turned dirty I couldn't stick with her. Then i tried to encourage people to not be mean to each other on DU because we are all democrats right? But now I understand. I want a president elected by the people who have looked at what each candidate has to offer and makes their choice not one who has been elected by other people being disenfranchised and scared by false premises (sounds a little like a dictatorship like the one we currently have!). No it is time for a real change in direction in our government and that change will start with Obama!

[Andrea]

458. The proper phrasing is:

"You're not the boss of him!"

[BlueCaliDem]

85. Uh... How about telling your candidate that? It would ...

... at least give her some semblance of being a Democrat although I've long ago awakened from that illusion.

[satireV]

78. Since when was it the job

of a presumed journalist to make such decisions?

Oh yeah I almost forgot... KO is not a journalist... he is just another "Paid Advertisement"

[barb162]

65. I remember when he actually used to do that!

I loved his show at one time.

[JVS]

70. I never watched him before and still don't watch him.

[barb162]

195. I don;t watch him anymore, ever since he made it very clear

he won't be objective about the candidates.

[aquart]

96. Uh, the Messiah is perfect. How can you not see that?

Don't you know that only fools and charlatans cannot see his beautiful new clothes?

[barb162]

472. LOL, LOL!

:hi:

[eagertolearn]

208. And what are his negatives? Haven't seen any "real" ones yet.

I'd vote for Hillary if she won fairly but she's only played dirty so far and if her campaign is really connected to thoses robo calls from WVWV that would be the last straw. The reason I got involved with politics was because of the blacks that I saw that were disenfranchised in 2000. I couldn't believe that in our country this could be going on and I have been so pissed that the repugs would do this. And now someone in our own party??? I can't believe she would stoop that low!!!!

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Andrea]

181. Precisely

I am so disappointed in him. When he told the truth about Bushco, I thought he was doing it because it was the right thing to do and he was following journalistic ethics. Obviously that's not his motivation, or he wouldn't be so one-sided now. I don't know if he's following his personal preference or seeking ratings, but he's certainly not being ethical. What a shame.

[Technodaoist]

263. This is the disconnect...

1) Someone tells me the truth.
2) That same person now says something I don't like.
3) That person must be now be lying.


Nevermind facts.
Nevermind events as they occurred.
Nevermind the statements made by the candidates themselves.


What is it with this pattern of behavior??? A person makes a choice. Once that choice is made, any evidence that calls into question that choice makes the person uncomfortable with that choice. If you rethink the issue at hand and the choice made, you are somehow weak and showing inconsistency - when the REAL inconsistency is that made by the leaders we are debating over. The only solution is denial and projection. It can't be ME - it must be SOMEONE ELSE.

It happened with the Bushies and their politics of fear... It seems everyone is vulnerable to those tactics no matter what party they are in.

[Andrea]

325. You are pointing in the wrong direction

I didn't say he was lying. I said he was one-sided. There is plenty of garbage to go around with both these candidates. KO examines Clinton's relentlessly and is oblivious to Obama's. When he was slamming Bushco, he called our side to task when it was called for. Now, it's not even-handed at all.

[Technodaoist]

356. your statement..

...implies KO lies without actually using the word.

he tells the truth then - but he doesn't now.

That's what your 'one-sided' statement means, whether you like it or not. Why is telling the truth and using critical thinking is one-sided?

Keep looking for that disconnect.

[Andrea]

376. Oh brother

Another one of these people that can magically look through their monitor and see that even though I said one thing, I meant another. I am so sick of that.

You know full well that is not what one-sided means.

[Technodaoist]

380. physician heal thyself

"Another one of these people that can magically look through their monitor and see that even though I said one thing, I meant another. I am so sick of that.

You know full well that is not what one-sided means."



Way to turn your argument on its own head by doing exactly what you accuse me of.

Maybe you should look at the words I used - "implies". He used to tell the truth, now he doesn't. Perhaps I inferred, but your statement is hardly definitive. The point being "One-sided" can mean a lot of things, especially in a political context. So maybe instead of your spleen venting we can actually have a conversation about the conversation. Its still a disconnect.

Keep up with that projection... It' like you can look through your monitor at me...

[Andrea]

381. Sorry, no

You've convinced me you are not interested in what I'm saying. There is no conversation to be had here.

[Technodaoist]

429. buhbye

[Andrea]

460. For being so new, you have certainly learned

all the cool kid behaviors very well.

[Technodaoist]

465. you came back to continue the conversation...

with teachers like you its easy to catch on...

But anyway - your accusing me of "magically look through their monitor and see that even though I said one thing, I meant another."

While in the same post saying "You know full well that is not what one-sided means." only made my irony meter peg. Sorry if I didn't take you seriously after that point. I'm willing to make amends and try if you are.

I'm just sayin - why arent Olbermanns facts / propaganda good enough now when they were back when Bushco was all the rage? What's changed here?

[Andrea]

474. It's what I said

when he was slamming Bushco (which he still should be - they are still around and they are still just as bad), if the Dems did something he felt was wrong, he called them on it. Now, it's all one-sided. Someone down thread said that he had called Obama out twice - which is hardly even - and I said I wished they would find the links because that would make me feel better. Alas, no response to that.

I should have said something along the lines of "most people know that one-sided does not mean lying" or something to that effect. It's true you might not know what that phrase means.

[papau]

335. Huh? different "truths" with dif statements where person lies about truth they don't like

[Steely_Dan]

375. Excellent Post! n/t

[Technodaoist]

245. WTH show are you watching?

Or do you only watch the YouTube clips that will support your "random sample".

Olbermann hits them all... Hillary, Obama, McCain... and the rest of them before they dropped out.

You seem to be somewhat biased yourself... You want to have a left-wing O'Reilly that acts like an attack dog on the "Repukes" (your word)? Glad you can drag yourself down to their level - just stay there and don't bother pulling the rest of the democrat / left down with you... Hillary is doing just fine on her own.

Personally, I'd rather have a newsman that tells me everything - whether I like hearing it or not.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

[McCamy Taylor]

336. No, I could have been much meaner. Like I could have done a month's worth.

That would have been visual overkill. I didn't want to make him look like an ogre or anything.

But if he keeps up this talking to the SDs and ignoring the people because they do not count anymore I am going to go through the past three months and find every nasty thing he has said about Clinton and put it in one thread.

[Technodaoist]

369. and we come to the heart of the matter

You could be "meaner". Not you have more evidence... just more spite. Like many Clinton supporters, you seem to have made up your mind early on and were surprised when the "inevitabilty" mantra didnt catch on with the masses. Surprise turned to denial, anger, and projection.

So you write out of anger. You made your decision early on and don't want to re-think them. That's fine. Just say that.

Olbermann stating truths - regardless of how much you dislike them - takes you down the road to reconsidering your decisions and that bothers you on a subconcious level.

Keep throwing up your quotes - they do more to disprove your point than you realize.

[papau]

337. not true - Obamas weekly lies are noted twice a month - if that

[Technodaoist]

374. weekly lies?

Where are these lies documented? I'd think if they happened on a weekly basis they'd get more airplay on all the OTHER blogs, networks, and media outlets. Or has MSNBC and Olbermann become the clearinghouse for everyone?

Any links? Or just unsupported accusations based on resentment and emotion like the rest of these posts?

[rodeodance]

80. When will do DEMAND the truth of Obama????????

[Rockholm]

117. Olbermann Needs a Job.......

If Obama gets the nomination, McSame could win the GE. With McSame in the White House, Olbermann keeps his job, continuing to expose and report on the right-wing and the republicans.
If Hillary gets the nomination and wins the GE, just how is he going to report on Clinton? The same way he goes after her now? God, let's hope not. Then it will be anti-Hillary all day on every channel, just like it will be on every channel if it is Obama (Keith excluded).
This is just my opinion.

[Politicalboi]

184. I guess it would

Depend on how many times the Queen lies about shit. Every Day I would guess. With Hillary it would be the same as Bush so your right he would go after her too. I'm sure at Fox they will defend the Queen. She could go on O'Reilly and cry her little eyes out about how Keith is bad mouthing her. Billo would understand and give her a his hanky. Oh how misery loves company.

[Andrea]

188. I think this is pretty accurate,

unfortunately.

[papau]

328. A smearby Obama repeated by KO is proof that Saint Obama's shit doesn't stink? interesting

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Webster Green]

12. Telling it like it is. Bad, bad Keith!

I realize that is problematic to the Clinton's, but isn't this post a "shoot the messenger" kind of deal. :eyes:

[gmudem]

13. Didn't bother reading most of that tripe.

However just about every person earth that's not ignoring the reality of Clinton's campaign has called her gas tax proposal a pander, because it is. And that 3rd part doesn't even have anything to do with Keith Olbermann.

Sorry that he's not bowing down and kissing your Queen's toes. He calls bullshit when he sees it, and a lot of us are glad that he's doing it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. He's a shitbird wise ass. He never got anyplace with his verbose demands

that bush resign, so he figured he move on to something he thought would be easier, delivering knockout blows to Hillary.

[hell-bent]

162. He has turned into just another O'Reillly type punk!

[Webster Green]

19. What's with the Chairman Mao pic?

Just trying to get some horizontal scroll bars happenin'? :wtf:

[McCamy Taylor]

23. Not all propaganda comes from the right wing.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

273. You seem to be carving your niche. Congratulations.

[graycem]

20. Ahhh...

Keith's Rants > Fact based.

Bill's Rants > Oxycontin based.

1) It is what the Clinton camp calls it, so why shouldn't he use their terminology?
2) It IS pandering.
3) She does make negative ads, her whole campaign is negative.
4) She isn't worried about casualties of the Democratic party or the Iraq war she voted for.
5) He listed a whole bunch of factsy stuff that you and the Clinton camp have an aversion to.

[papau]

340. Facts are same for Obama campaign but selective KO only blasts Hillary

[VotesForWomen]

358. exactly; only 'good' facts are presented about O; vice versa for Hill. nt

[jillan]

22. I think he should get the leading role in a horror flick.

He seems so crazed - like he is in a trance.

I can just picture him with bloody scissor hands walking around, foaming at the mouth while saying
"Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton".

[barb162]

56. LOL. Only a really cheap horror flick.

He's gone berserk.

[Hoof Hearted]

24. Big smile followed by a K and an R

[highplainsdem]

25. He even bashed her for telling voters the "future depends" on their votes

and compared that innocuous, standard campaign wording to Cheney suggesting people would die if they didn't vote Republican.

I used to admire Keith so much. I still agree with him at times. But when he goes that far out on a really weak limb, someone needs to point out it's cracked.

I have relatives who used to be fans of his who've been shocked by the change in his show, too.

But until I saw this thread, I wasn't sure anyone here at DU had noticed that Keith's Hillary-bashing had become as predictable as Tweety's.

What went wrong? How could he have gotten so far from rational, skeptical analysis that he'd get hysterical over a politician saying the "future depends" on a vote?

[Beacool]

36. I stopped watching that asshole the minute he finished with his diatribe

against Hillary for what Ferraro had said. Meanwhile, Obama lied like a rug about not knowing what Wright had said for the last 20 years and not a peep out of the pompous ass.

[Politicalboi]

201. But Wright is RIGHT

I guess the truth about Hillary really hurts. I could care less if Obama was at any of the "Tirades"
It would bother me more supporting someone who's husband cheated on her and staying with him for 40 years. You can choose your spouse can't you? But she chose to stay with him no matter how many times he cheated. And the whole world knows about it. And if you don't think the Repiglicans will go back and find more women maybe for both Bill and Hillary you are fooling yourself.

[McCamy Taylor]

98. Jonathon Alter said the gas tax rebate would fund terrorists--that is politics of fear.

Notice KO did not call him out on that.

[Politicalboi]

207. I'm sure he was

Joking. OMFG you Hillbots need to wake up. Politics of fear. :rofl:

[McCamy Taylor]

346. I saw his face. He was not joking.

[King Coal]

300. A vote for Hillary is a vote for Monica Lewinsky.

Well, that mkes about as much sense as bashing KO. We get one guy on the air telling the truth, and the "Hillarys" put him down. Sheesh. What's up with that?

[McCamy Taylor]

495. Bill Moyers and Dan Rather tell the truth. Celebrate them,

[Captain Angry]

27. It's a shame to see his show turn into this.

I truly dislike Senator Clinton. But I don't revel in people making fun of her either. I just don't like her, I don't need to validate myself by watching other people not like her.

I can't watch KO anymore because it's no longer news. Before MSNBC decided to become politics central, he would cover a diverse range of topics, most of them useful. The American Idol crap was the only thing I could complain about.

So, among other things, when the Democrats finally name their nominee, maybe KO will return to a useful format. Until then, the show adds no value to my day.

[grrr050]

151. Kudos .......

Thanks for seeing KO for what he has become and you're not even a Hillary supporter.

I use to dig this guy for exposing the Bush/Chenney raping of our Constitution day in and out....he's done a good job each time he used to make my blood boil for what these repugs are doing to our country.

These days, KO still makes my blood boil but this time for his constant Hillary bashing. It's time that he's producers tell him to either tone it down or start bashing McCain. He's slowly loosing half of his viewers to Bill O'liely. I feel I have to constantly take a shower these days for tuning in to Fox just to see a glitter of fair coverage of my candidate. What a shame!

[Beacool]

32. KO is as big of a pompous ass as BO.

That's probably why he despises him so, they are both the flipside of the same coin.

I wouldn't worry too much about MSNBC though, it ranks so low among the cable channels that it barely rates a blip. Fox is in 6th place.

[BlueCaliDem]

86. You cheer Fox and denigrate MSNBC with venom...

... You sound like a Republican hoping for a Hillary win so that the GOP can annihilate her in the GE and put another Bush in the WH for FOUR MORE YEARS!

The only pompous ass here is Hillary Clinton and her husband, both nostalgic for the WH and power hungry as they come.

They had EIGHT FRIGGIN' YEARS TO MAKE CHANGES AND ALL THEY DID WAS PUSH THROUGH NAFTA, IGNORED THEIR PROMISE TO ALLOW GAYS AND LESBIANS TO OPENLY SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES, MADE A WEAK ATTEMPT AT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE UNTIL HILL GOT HUGE DONATIONS TO SHUT THE F**K UP ABOUT IT; she then continues in the Senate showing a rubbery spine when push came to shove and she voted for the IWR.

Not only that, she voted for the Kyl/Lieberman Amendment effectively giving this pompous warmongering ass in the WH authority to launch a war against Iran - and you berate Obama?

Or is it you think he's too "uppity" for a black man? Is that it, Beacool?

In that case, grow up will ya? Or just don't vote. It's about the country, NOT about your petty prejudices and willful ignorance to the facts. Just step away from the voting booths and inform yourself first.

The American troops will thank you for it.

[Auntie Bush]

155. So now people are race bating the uppity black man just because they

don't like KO anymore? Good connection! :sarcasm:
What does one have to do with the other?

[BlueCaliDem]

213. If you write "...pompous ass like BO" yes, that's berating "the uppity black man". Or

... do you have difficulty understanding what "pompous" means? :sarcasm:

What does one have to do with the other? Perhaps you need to ask Beacool directly. I'm just stating the facts as s/he wrote them, and calling her/him out on it.

But since you asked my opinion, I'd say it's a Freudian slip.

[cbayer]

229. I think you misunderstood the BO reference. I think it was a reference to O'Reilly. NT>

[jhrobbins]

292. He didn't get it - I guess because obviously the initials are the same,

but with the references to FOX, it would seem that he was being deliberately obdurate.

[cbayer]

297. Hey, I just realized something!

Hillary Rodham Clinton =HRC
Human Rights Campaign = HRC

Seeing your avatar and reading the post about people confusing initials just made me realize that.

[Beacool]

161. That's YOUR opinion.

I'm a lifelong Democrat and Obama's age. I have campaigned for many a candidate and have given plenty of money to the party, besides holding many fundraisers (not all of Hillary's supporters are blue collar). If Obama is the nominee, I won't spend a minute of my time nor a dime of my money to help elect a man who I don't think is prepared to be president at this point in time.

I think that Obama is an opportunist who has tried to fast track the process and become president with very little experience to back his huge ego. To me he's a flim flam artist, a panderer who got to where he is by kissing ass and not making waves because taking a stance on the controversial issues created enemies.

As for the gays in the military, Bill did everything he could at the time to get it passed and he was clobbered. The best that they could get at the moment was the "don't ask don't tell" which is still more than anybody else has done on the subject. I support Hillary because I know how much she truly cares about helping people. She's a policy wonk and one of the smartest people you'll ever meet. I think that if given the chance she would be a great president.

[redqueen]

191. Why do you say he did everything he could?

Nothing to do with the primaries... only interested in the history...

[suzie]

203. Hillary says she cares about people

And George Bush called himself a 'compassionate conservative'.

If Hillary Clinton cared about people some form of health care reform would have passed in the 90s. But, Clinton refused to negotiate anything less than what she wanted--because she wanted the glory for herself. She vilified Senators and Congressmen who had proposals that were smaller than what she wanted--but at least put health care into the pot. Talk about opportunists--she never had to worry about health care again in her life. So what if the 'little people' did.

She has claimed to be a children's advocate. And yet, in reality she's done very little for children other than give a few speeches and claim to have authored legislation that other people had worked on. Oh, and there's education reform in Arkansas where she spent her time attacking the teachers when at all possible. During the same years that the Republicans were in full force attacking educators everywhere.

Clinton brags about her experiences at the Children's Defense Fund, and neglects to mention that Marion Wright Edelman is one more of the long list of women who've supported real causes that she's thrown under the bus.

I'm a lifelong Democrat of Hillary Clinton's age. Please deliver me from policy wonks who've never bothered to spend a day working with actual people, preferring to hang out with the Wal-Mart Board and corporate law firm clients.

[papau]

332. some form of health care reform would have passed in the 90s." - It did via Hillary - try reading up

[suzie]

479. Actually, I have read up and I don't believe

seeing anywhere that national health care passed in the 90s. Some legislation for children's health care that had been proposed and shepherded by Sens. Kennedy and Hatch passed. And Clinton maybe gave a speech about it. But that was about the extent of her role.

Unless you believe that in the period when she was basically exiled from the White House while trying to figure out if she'd be indicted, or in the period when she was trying to survive the Lewinsky scandal and impeachment and basically not communicating with her husband, that she was mounting a major legislative effort.

At the time of the greatest personal humiliation for her, Senators threw her a bone and said nice things about her.

[BlueCaliDem]

228. Your current actions / words decry your claimed past ones and ...

... and you're doing exactly what the Repukes have done and do to Democratic candidates. Spite, Beacool, should be directed toward McCain and the Repukes, NOT toward a fellow Democratic leader. You, the Clintons, their surrogates and other self-proclaimed, self-serving "democrats" are the reason why Democrats are so adept at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

You are part of the problem why this election year, that should have been a shoo-in for the Democrats, instead, has bolstered a Repuke like McCain to become so strong as our candidates. Staunch Hillary supporters like you continue to eradicate the Democratic Party from the inside-out IF you really are a Democrat.

You say "Not spend a minute nor a dime" to help a fellow Democratic presidential candidate win the WH?

Wow. What a coincidence!

Neither will the Republicans, or right-wing fanatics, or conservatives, or RACISTS - closeted and/or openly ones.

If Hillary steals the nomination via cowered Super Delegates from Obama, I will have no other choice than to vote for her even though I will have to hold my nose to do so.

An FYI, this year is too important a year to nurture and feed stung egos. I originally wanted John Edwards but you don't see ME whining that he's not our candidate, do you? Instead, I focus on winning the WH back by putting a Democrat in it.

Then again, I'm a die-hard member of the Democratic Party, NOT a member of the Barack Obama Party OR the Clintonian Party, understand?

As for Hillary being a policy wonk and one of the smartest people you know? Pray tell, explain to me why she not only voted for the Iraq War that KILLED over 4,000 American Troops that were alive before her, and her fellow spineless Dems in Congress' vote, she also voted for the Kyl/Lieberman Amendment September 2007 which effectively gives Bush the authorization to launch another war - now against IRAN.

Something Scott Ritter is trying to tell us, Dumbya is working really hard behind the scenes of this campaign drama. Ritter predicts our sissy President is set to launch war in October this year - just before the elections, thanks to Hillary's vote.

Oh, and FYI? Even McCain didn't vote for it.

Oh, and lets NOT go into the huge lawsuit of FRAUD the Clintons has perpetrated against a fellow big-shot fundraiser here in California. They're being sued for FRAUD and violations against campaign finance reform. She's caught on tape soliciting funds for her Senate campaign - and cuckolded the wrong person - the person with more money than she and who is as adamant at taking her and Bill down as you are at taking Obama and the Democratic Party down.

Oh yeah. Hillary's smart all right. She's got you fooled, hasn't she?

[papau]

330. I agree with every point - I'm just a senior version of yourself - w/ the same Nov plan

[Jakes Progress]

417. No one can buy Rove's bull this much.

Gotta be a troll. Paid or committed?

[skipos]

33. I thought OReilly was rooting for Hillary?!?

Oh wait.. it's not OReilly... LIMBAUGH is rooting for Hillary. And Coulter. And Beck. And Murdoch.

[Gore1FL]

35. "t was at the end of his nightly anti-Clinton rant. "

you mean the one where he quoted Clinton and he campaign staff?

that nightly anti Clinton rant?

[Liquorice]

38. Keith became unbearable a long time ago. Every single

time I surf past his show (I can't actually watch because it's too unsettling), he is attacking Hillary Clinton with a deranged look on his face. He seems to be in a strange hatred-trance. He needs to seek professional help because he is obviously projecting onto Hillary some sort of deep-seated rage.

[Beacool]

42. He now hates her more than he does O'Reilly

and that's saying a lot.

The guy has become a joke, only the Obama fans seem to enjoy watching him.

[grrr050]

156. Bravo!!!!!!!

I couldnt have described it better....Sad but true.

[XtraProudDem]

360. What a bunch of crap.

I'm sorry I don't have a more intelligent way of putting it, but your post is complete bullshit. Not at all reality-based.

Wake up.

[Beacool]

487. Spoken like a typical Obama fan.

:eyes:

[Webster Green]

44. This is classic "shoot the messenger stuff"..

I don't see any Hillary supporters refuting what Keith asserts. They merely vilify him for making the comments. :eyes:

[Liquorice]

50. Keith is insane now. Refuting his "points" would be like arguing

with a patient in a mental ward.

[ExPatLeftist]

152. Nice circular "logic" there... n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

52. I am a unity ticket supporter, but see my "Tea Party Memo" journal for substance.

Tonight I just had enough of his use of propaganda rhetoric and decided to point out how he and his guests will crowd into 15 minutes the kind of anti-Hillary stuff that it used to take other MSM pundits weeks to accumulate. And they do it every single night. This is what the right wing does when it targets someone to become an enemy of the state. Except that Clinton is supposed to be an enemy of the left. So she is an enemy of the people, like they would have had in China under Mao.

Since Richard Wolffe is the smartest one of the anti-Hillary gang, and since he was the first one to start with the anti-Hillary propaganda way back in January, I am guessing that he is the one pulling KOs strings. I wish I knew how he did it. Did he tell KO that the Clintons said bad stuff about him? Did he tell him a bunch of stories about war crimes they are supposed to have committed? Really horrible stuff that he swore him to secrecy about so that KO can never fact check it, but now he is convinced he has to save the country from that "monster"? Something is up, and I will bet a nickel that Wolffe is behind it. After Buchanan he is the smartest one there, and I know that Buchanan isn't stumping for Obama. He might be pulling some strings behind the pulling the strings operation, laughing while Wolffe and KO divide and conquer the Democrats, knowing that they are weakening the Dems and helping McCain in the fall. Buchanan is way too smart and amoral to have on a national news network.

[Marie26]

169. IMO that's overthinking it

Olbermann just has issues with women, and especially powerful ones.

[Andrea]

222. It's tempting to conclude that, but

I never got that feeling from him before. Are there other things that make you say that? I agree something is wrong, I just don't think it's an anti-woman thing. I could be wrong, though.

[Marie26]

232. Yeah

I noticed a real anti-woman streak in his show a while ago, way before the Clinton thing. Basically every show, he took the chance to bash some female celebrity or other, & now he's just moved on to one of the biggest female celebrities of all. It's not just me, either - here's a good article written before the primaries. http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/02/23/everyone_loves_keith_olbermannexcept_me.php

But I agree w/you that there's something else too - that level of vitriolic hatred is almost inexplicable. It's uncomfortable to even watch.

[Andrea]

240. Thanks for the article

The author makes some good points that I overlooked before. Maybe there is an underlying misogynistic streak to go with whatever is going on with him now. It is very uncomfotable to watch. I can't watch anymore. I wonder how his ratings have been.

[TeeYiYi]

262. I agree with you Marie26. Irrational seething misogyny . . .

It's disconcerting and hard to watch; so I don't. I used to watch on occasion. Not anymore. I think he might be struggling with mental illness...

TYY :shrug:

[Jakes Progress]

420. My bet is that it is the oldest reason of all.

Money. Someone is getting paid by someone. Money and power are what motivate this crowd.

[McCamy Taylor]

347. It isn't that. He likes Rachel Maddow. Maybe it is a problem with "moms".

A lot of men have issues with their mothers in this country. Women in certain WASPy cultural groups in the US tend to have troubled relationships with their sons. They push them away and get close to their daughters, which makes the boys jealous.

I have never heard KO talk about his mother. Only his grandparents.

Since his complaints about Clinton are all about how she is too ambitious (read not nurturing enough) and makes too many "attacks" (he calls every ad she makes an "attack" as if he can only imagine an older woman being critical never making a suggestion) and how she is kneecapping (he just loved that Tonya Harding image which is sort of like the stereotypical man who fears that his mom is trying to emasculate him) if I was going to make a wild guess, I would say that KO shares a really common phobia--he is afraid of Mom. Which might be why he has never married or had any kids.

This is common, because the US is a matriarchy. Hillary Clinton is a product of the Irish-American matriarchy, one of the strongest matriarchal traditions in this country. So am I. There are a lot of men and women who look at her and who are very comfortable with her. But there are also a lot of peope who will look at her and absolutely freak out, because they will not think of moms and grandmothers who were the tower of strength in their family, holding everything together. Instead, they think of the Great Bitch who demanded all the attention and constantly nagged and belittled and moaned and sucked up all the oxygen. That second woman has nothing in common with the first. But a person who did not grow up in a family with the strong women shouldering all the responsibility so that everyone else---especially the children---could have an easy time of it and just be themselves does not realize that female strength can be a good thing. That think that female strength only takes and never gives.

My great grandmother and grandmother and mother were wonders who made their families lives joys even in the hardest of times. That they were able to make money to support everyone like they did was nothing short of a miracle. And they never let the strain show. Babies got unconditional love. Children playes. Teenagers grew up. It was the way families were meant to be.

[JoFerret]

444. That Tea Party memo is truly excellent

Read it. IF you are serious and not just a mouther of slogans.

[barb162]

58. He's definitely acting nuts the last few months.

He gets that weird look on his face and then starts sneering about HRC. What a fucking moron he has become.

[Andrea]

211. It's true

I used to DVR him and watch him every night. I can't watch him anymore. But every time I go past him, he's in full hatred mode. I don't get it. Back when he used to rightfully expose Bushco, he gave it a rest from time to time. It wasn't every minute of every show. What has happened to him?

I recommended him to so many right-wing people, trying to get them to hear the truth, but now I feel foolish because it turns out they were right about him.

[barb162]

43. He's the worse shill ever.

[WA98070]

45. The truth hurts----he was one of her biggest fans until she refused to accept defeat....

and decided she is more important than a democratic victory.

[Marie26]

164. No way

He was extremely pissed off when she won New Hampshire, at the very beginning of the race. KO is a hard-core Hillary hater, along w/most of the other commentators at MSNBC.

[high density]

367. You have no clue what you are talking about

Olbermann quit MSNBC during and because of the Lewinsky thing. Obviously, like many of us here, he cared for the Clintons but has since wondered what has happened to them in the past six months or so.

Those demanding "fair and balanced" coverage of Clinton sound like those that want the "fair and balanced" coverage of the Iraq war: "Where is the good news?" Well if there's no good news to report, then the coverage is negative. Otherwise you go biased in the other direction generating good news to "balance" the reporting. It makes no sense.

[CTLawGuy]

51. The more Hillary fans hate him

the more I love him.

The "what really matters in this election" segment was pure gold!

[barb162]

55. Olberman thinks he is the reincarnation of Edward R. Murrow

His narcissism is past embarrassing and his constant Clinton bashing is disgusting. Other than that, I hope he goes off the air soon and is relegated to some local small town radio station where he belongs. Maybe he'll get his head straight.

[cui bono]

57. Clinton brought this all on herself.

Olbermann is right.

Get over it already.

Stop whining.

Accept the facts as they are, not as you would like others to think they are.

[barb162]

61. I'll enjoy watching KO snarling like a mad dog tomorrow when HRC wins

[GrimReefa]

327. When HRC wins what?

Her fantasy baseball league?

Surely to God you don't actually believe she is going to get the nomination? I mean, honestly, you have figured out that she is not going to win, right?

I can understand why HRC refuses to acknowledge that she is going to lose. Seriously, I get that.

But for anyone who ISN'T HRC to not see that, well, that is just fucking psychotic.

[cui bono]

401. Yeah, wins what? What difference will it make? NONE!!!

[Politicalboi]

216. Can you believe

These people? It's like being on a freeper site and bad mouthing Bush over facts. Sticking fingers in ears singing La La La La La I can't hear you. Reminds me of Fox veiwers. If Fox didn't report it it didn't happen.

[papau]

324. Hard to believe you Obama fans don't see the mirror you're looking into

[gaspee]

59. He's a jerk and a bully

And has always been one - even when he was the only one telling the truth on TV about this misadministration.

He was an ass and a bully then and he's still one now.

He is as bad as Tweety when it comes to Clinton, but what do you expect from a 50 year old man who dates young girls (early 20's) --- surely not that he sees women as human beings... snort!

That'll be the day!

[mcollier]

122. Do you mean like Bill Clinton?

What planet are you from gaspee?

What you eat don't make me $hit!

[barb162]

196. No, Michelle Obama

LOL

[gaspee]

246. Oh fuck off

Dickhead. That's about the level of response you deserve from me.

Just another bully, trying to stick up for one of his own and failing.

[tishaLA]

60. I'm glad you told me his emotional mood in the first sentence

"nervous," huh? This is the kind of thing The Daily Howler loves--the ability to see into people's feelings and motivations, the ability to read minds and hearts. Of course you will say his feelings are demonstrable--why else would he say what he does?--but I'll call it what it is: foolishness.

[barb162]

64. His feelings are quite demonstrable; all smiley about Obama,

all sneering at Clinton. A three year can read mommy's smiles so what's so hard about figuring out what sneer and smiles mean?

[tishaLA]

73. perhaps you can tell me more through your mind reading skills

you and maureen dowd seem to have made it an exact science.

[Skip Intro]

62. I said goodbye to KO months ago, at this point, I guess. He was good while he lasted.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

67. Ah, another objective observation from neutral McCamy Taylor

Who is NOT a Hillary shill, despite playing one on DU.

:eyes:

[bleever]

71. I'd be rude not to declare my agreement with KO on his reporting.

What the hell does he care if Hillary doesn't win?

He doesn't have a horse in the race.

He's just a keen observer of how races are run.

[leftofcool]

75. So you have no problem with sexist language?

That's nice

[truebrit71]

144. "sexist language"?

Oh puhleez....Go build a bridge and get over yourself...

[MaryRN]

83. No, he's a well-paid entertainer. And he ought to be fired.

[McCamy Taylor]

72. Please read this excellent thread by TimeForAChange

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5833813

About why it is never appropriate to ask one person to reject another.

The actual title is "To ask one person to repudiate another is despicable" and it is about Tim Russert badgering Obama over Wright but it applies to all cases of the same behavior. And we all know who else did this to Clinton...but not to Obama.

[Seabiscuit]

79. In the past few months KO has dropped from on high straight down thru the shitter.

I used to love his "rants" against Bushco.

Since he started whoring for MSNBC with Chris Matthews in favor of Obama, he's been trashing the Clintons the same way Faux News has.

Here I thought he was a man of principle. And he's nothing but a hollow sellout.

[trevjr]

87. Wow, just wow

Comparing KO to O'Reilly takes some nerve, I guess when you are under the spell of Hillary that is what happens. I am really surprised at the people here. No one is bashing Hillary, she is doing this to herself, her constant lies and twisting of reality. KO is just pointing it out, but Hillary supporters have somehow fallen into the same narcissistic trap. The Koolaid is Hillary's not Obama's.
I feel sorry for you in a way that you cannot see reality any longer. Any observation of Hillary's tactics is somehow turned into hating her or bashing her. You fail to notice all of the times Obama could have taken advantage of her constant lying and flip-flopping, but he never does. He remains true to his promise of something different. You cannot see it because you are blinded . How does this crap get so high up on the list or whatever? I don't really know how this site works but the posts by this person are so one sided, I fail to see how this continues.
I also object to the picture of MLK used by this person. I find it insulting. Take it off, you do not deserve to use his picture for the tripe that you put out.

[McCamy Taylor]

100. Obama send out a bunch of emails to propel Snipergate--and lied about it on ABC debate.

His shit stinks just like anyone else's. I am not faulting him for being a politician. I think Wright was just stating a fact and I have no problem voting for Obama the politician. I think people who do not recognize that he is a politician just like the Clintons are funny.

[urgk]

141. Snipergate?

Do you mean lied-through-her-teeth-gate? Do you mean Hillary-has-no-moral-compass-gate? Do you mean blatant-public-display-of-the-degree-to-which-she-will-cheat-to-win-gate?

Anything that Obama's camp has done to spread the word is fair game. Hillary tried to manufacture support for the myth that her role as First Lady actually meant something. She lied. She was caught.

She lied.

In public.

In a way designed to improve her credibility.

And she was caught.

[McCamy Taylor]

353. Clinton went to Bosnia to rescue refugees not to run through sniper fire. She suceeded.

Obama managed to change the subject. In the same memos, he managed to deceive KO and the press that Clinton had no effect in Northern Ireland either even though the preponderance of the evidence said that she did.

Clinton as president (or Obama for that matter) will not run through sniper fire. They will negotiate truces. Clinton has negotiated truces as I show in my journals. Obama tried to say that she did not through a cheap rhetorical trick that relied upon the help of the cheap and lazy MSM which would rather loop video than report a story that takes four or five minutes to read.

The myth is that Obama is above the politics of distraction. The memos which his own camp has put out and which are available on the internet for all to see are full of demands for the MSM to plant distractions in front of the American people to keep them from focusing on the issues, where he and Clinton are very similar.

If we still had an Edward R. Murrow, he would have said "Why are we looking at a video of a First Lady on a tarmac over and over again? That was a story for one day." And the nation would have applauded him. He would have said the same thing about Flag pins and received the same applause.

[urgk]

484. It's not about being above the politics of distraction.

At least not for me. It's about being above cheap shots. Of course in politics there is going to be spin. There are going to be moments for each side to try to make their case by distorting what the other has said. But, there is a line. Hillary crossed it when she lied about sniper fire. That wasn't an exaggeration, it was the exact opposite of what happened. Hillary crossed it when she implied that either she or John McCain would be better Presidents than Obama. She crossed it again hen she brought up Farrakhan in the debates. She crossed it again every time she brought up Reverend Wright.

My problem with Hillary is that she constantly shows her willingness to engage in Bush-style politics. Lie and hope you don't get caught. Manufacture outrage. Pretend out loud and the public will believe you. Say you're pro-working class America, then add credibility to the careers of union-busters like Mark Penn.

[GrimReefa]

89. Hillary Clinton isn't a Republican, she just plays one when it is politically expedient

Including when votes for war come up.


Hey, let's look at your garbage:

"KO called attempts to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida the “nuclear option”.
He called Clinton’s proposed gas tax cuts “pandering”.
He called Clinton’s response to Obama ads which distort remarks Krugman made “attack ads”.
Milbank says Clinton is not “worried about casualties.”"

First, Hillary's attempt to seat delegates selected in non-competitive elections, one of which didn't even feature Obama on the ballot, would be a nuclear option.
Second, Hillary and McCain's "Gas Tax Holiday" is definitely one of the most cynical, insulting forms of pandering up with which a politician could come.
Third, Clinton's ads are attack ads. In fact, they pretty much all have been attack ads since Iowa.
Fourth, Clinton is not worried about casualties, or she would not have voted for an illegal war against a non-offending country to begin with.

Fifth, hahaha, you're candidate is going to lose.

[Forrest Greene]

215. I More Or Less Agree With The Post

...but I must say I have never before heard or read the phrase "up with which," except in the old witticism about ending a sentence with a preposition being something "up with which I will not put." Somewhere, your grammar teacher is smiling today.

[Apollo11]

91. I prefer Jon Stewart on The Daily Show

I guess Stewart probably leans toward Obama but he makes a conscious effort to play fair. He has interviewed Obama, Hillary and McCain and is always polite but is not afraid to ask tough questions. Most importantly, Stewart has consistently called the corporate news media on their unfair attacks against both Democratic candidates.

KO was polite to Hillary when she came on his show but the rest of the time he is unfair and unbalanced. It's like there is a streak of meanness that he wants Hillary to suffer some kind of public humiliation. It's not enough for KO that Obama will most likely win the nomination. Hillary has to be defeated and humiliated.

[RTBerry]

95. And that's how the story goes...

in this culture. American build up heroes, then shoot them down. It makes for gripping "news."

Keith is skilled at what he does: feeding the egos of his viewing audience.

[McCamy Taylor]

103. Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are marvels---but they are media critics.

I think that helps a lot.

[Marie26]

167. And shamed

He wasn't that nice in the interview I saw. When she laughed, he scolded her; "Do you have any response, besides laughter?" There's no way he'd say that to Obama or even McCain. It's like there's a need to demean & humiliate that's very mean & almost misogynistic. I can't even stand to look at the guy anymore.

[Raineyb]

389. He wouldn't have to ask Obama that question

because Obama wouldn't have laughed.

And why wouldn't KO ask if Clinton she had any response besides laughter? The man asks her a question; he wasn't being facetious, and instead of contemplating and giving a serious answer befitting the stature of the office she's seeking she laughs.

Guess what, it's not funny!

It's a deliberate deflection to a question she doesn't want to answer. (And it's not the first time that she's done this. Personally it annoys the hell out of me. Answer the friggin' question!)

Contrary to what some folks may believe it is not the job of the interviewer to make the interviewee feel comfortable especially since the information gleaned from the interview may be used to choose the next leader of our country.

Not for nothing but, he's supposed to ask tough questions! What the hell is wrong with you people that you think that asking a serious question and expecting a serious answer is demeaning, humiliating and misogynistic?

When will this bloody mess end?

Regards

[bluebellbaby]

92. Fanstatic post! Great examples of the "media conspiracy" against the Clintons

Kudo's to you...:loveya:

[indimuse]

93. Obama's O' Rielly...

Olberman!

[symbolman]

94. Wow..

The Damaged Goods Heroine Worship Club in full force out to silence yet another voice of reason..

Who knew that on a site that villified Lieberman, and rightly so, that there would be a group of thugs reliving the Revenge of the Wronged Elderly Woman psychosexual drama, willing to Destroy ALL those who even faintly disagree with them..

You people are actually beginning to Scare normal folks at this point.. Where are they going to go when Obama wins? Just constantly hassle him more than the fought Bush?

Interesting how a whole "Fuck or Walk.." mentality has sprung up among those who worship aging, and can't stand that they are rotting..

Besides having been screwed over like Hillary by a rude male at some point in their Clinton Worshipping lives, they are facing mortality and midlife crisis levels on a grand scale.. Along with some very wicked Hysteria..

When will they physically threaten Obama? I'm serious, they're getting so far gone from Reality that I'm worried there might be a Squeaky From incident..

Listen to them, its like they're having a group psychotic Break..

[slay]

97. I've been thinking the same thing.. wonder when a "women against Keith" group

or "Women against Obama" will pop up on DU? :eyes:

Keith tells the truth as he sees it. If someone wants their little fluff "news" shows, and they are indeed shows, with nice little feel good stories, let me recommend, CBS, ABC, etc...

Who other than Keith is brave enough to counter O'Riley's bullshit? Oh and check out the person known as "Annonymous #2" in the documentary "Outfoxed" about how shitty FauxNews is.. the tone is.. very familiar.. ;)

[Sundoggy]

419. Hell hath no fury...

...and if you think I'm finishing it, you're crazier than I am.

[against all enemies]

99. Amazing how KO tells the truth about everyone but Hillary. Duh?

She's a horrible person, she can't even say the ends justify the means. Because she is still going to lose but destroy the party anyway.

[jefferson_dem]

102. Good post...

Insofar that it demonstrates how politically demented some DUers really are.

[georgecolombo]

105. Apparently, Hillary Is Conspiracy-Prone

Nine years ago, it was the vast, right wing conspiracy that was after the Clintons. Now, it is the vast mainstream media conspiracy. The Clintons do no wrong; they are simply the victims of a never-ending succession of conspiracies. Right?

[McCamy Taylor]

106. Interesting the way that people let their real feelings out in order to stand with KO.

Note that you are also standing in solidarity with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bay Buchanan, Dick Morris, Chris Matthews and just about everyone in the most extreme right wing news media along with Ken Starr.

Oh, and ex-CREEPster Roger Stone, who started the group C.U.N.T. an anti-Hillary group because he could not think of any words to go with B.I.T.C.H.

I have a theory that Clinton bashing spans the political divide because people project their relationships with their female significant relatives---wives, mothers, sisters, female bosses and teachers---onto Hillary. If some woman stole their man, that woman is Hillary. If the Mother Superior mocked them, she is Hillary. If their mother was cold, she is Hillary.

[Beausoir]

153. Yes! Very interesting who also stand with when they stand with Olberman.

[Zodiak]

218. Your theory is crap

Got any evidence at all?

Then your post is an unsupported hypothesis that really is just a rationalization as to why those who do not like Clinton are deficient in some way. You and Bill Frist should get along well with your remote diagnoses...actually he is a little better at it since he actually has a medical degree and at least saw his remote patient in a video.

Attacking from the left is not the same as attacking from the right, as much as you would like to conflate them. If you feel your candidate is assaulted from all sides, maybe it is because she is unpopular in general, which should also give you a hint about her electability.

This from a "Hillary basher" that loves his mother, has a wonderful marriage, and generally has a good relationship with every woman in his life.

Could it be that my problem with Hillary has to do with issues and her affiliation with the DLC and more recently, the right-wing spin machine?

[cbayer]

238. That's a very interesting point.

I have also noticed that she appears to the be receptacle for every negative feeling about women that some people have. The picture that has been painted of her is so far from reality that the only explanation is that she is the blank slate on which many project their deepest feelings.

Interestingly, it appears that Obama functions much in that same manner, but so much of what gets projected onto him are deeply help feelings of a more positive nature.

[Andrea]

248. I agree with you

Neither of these projections speak very well of the rationality of the projector. I've become very disappointed in my fellow Democratic voters. I could never understand how people could vote for Bush, other than thinking it was some kind of refelxive emotional reaction. I didn't expect to see my own people voting the same way.

It's no secret that I think Obama and Clinton are both very weak candidates. It seems we've ended up with these two because of emotional voting.

[cbayer]

253. Reflexive emotional reaction - exactly.

I think it has to do with how bad it has been over the last 7 years and how badly people want a change. They are now willing to accommodate any information that supports what they want to believe and shut out anything that challenges it because they (we?) are desperate for someone to save us from this mess.

Both of our candidates, whether they wanted to or not, have provided templates on which the electorate has drawn their own picture.

Even though there are Democratic candidates I would have preferred, this is what we've got and I continue to believe it will be a step forward whichever we pick.

[Andrea]

334. These last seven years have taken a toll,

that's very true. This could be part of the reason for people reacting this way. I feel desperate, too. I'm just afraid that with these two, the step forward will be barely perceptible (if one of them manages to be elected), when what we need are long, strong strides.

Democratic candidates I would have preferred? Well, yes. But I do think both of these two are more electable than Mike Gravel would have been. I feel pretty pessimistic at this point.

[Technodaoist]

308. What sensationalist, ignorant, unmitigated crap...

And I suppose that Clinton supporters stand with Rush Limbaugh because he put in a good word for her and tried to get out the vote for her...

Olbermann calls out your ENTIRE LIST every time they utter their anti-anything left propaganda.

Meanwhile Hillary cozies up to the very networks that carry your list of people KO 'stands with'. Hillary uses the very tactics and methodology of those you claim KO is imitating. Not to mention her willingness to parrot McCain while trying to throw Obama and the process under the bus.

The fact is Olberman calls EVERYONE on their crap. So its no wonder those who let their "real feelings" show will eventually dislike him.

Olbermann is the bat in the war between the animals - google aesop if you don't get it.

[Prophet 451]

109. Oh, horseshit

KO has called out Obama at least twice (searching for the links now) and he was a great booster of the Clintons until HRC's campaign descended into the ridiculous. Ultimately, the Hillbots (as distinct from HRC supporters) have supposedly only just noticed that KO is a sexist O'Lielly clone when he started criticising the Goddess of Peace.

This is purely because he started criticising HRC over her increasingly pointless campaign. You could not possibly make that more blatant.

[Andrea]

464. Did you find those links yet?

I would seriously feel better if I could see them.

[Prophet 451]

492. Here's a couple

Not the ones I was thinking of but here's a couple of them:
Olbermann *sort-of* criticises Obama over the "bitter" comment:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=byqRgLp1Mo8

There's a reference to a previous one at the end of this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nNpOUHQqCNM

Granted, they're relatively mild but KO has criticised Obama on at least a few occasions.

[Andrea]

496. Thanks for finding those

I won't be able to watch them until I get home from work (darn firewall), but I'm looking forward to it.

[susankh4]

111. OMG! That title!! Deserves to be published.....

somewhere besides D.U.

"K.O. isn't O'Reilly, he just plays him on MSNBC!" I love it!!

K&R.

[Vinca]

115. Funny, you always love Keith when he's kissing her ass. nt

[DWilliamsamh]

118. Let me guess; KO is DEAD to you now?

The point sin your first paragraph are absolute truth too bad the truth has and "anti-Hillary" bias , but then again the truth does tend to have a liberal bias and she's no liberal. the rest is editorialized whining form the Clinton camp. You accuse KO of reading Obama memos? Pot meet Kettle.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

119. KO committed Obamacide a few months ago.

He and his every-night guests are so obviously invested in Obama that they have sacrificed their credibility.

[DeanDem10]

130. God forbid

That a single media personality or show should favor Obama (none of the others do, except Abrams favors Hillary and the rest McCain). They all must fawn over the NY Senator and the ex president, or else they are just being so unfair.

[ShortnFiery]

146. No, Joey the Scar (Joe Scarborough) faithfully shills for HRC each and every morning on

"Morning Joe" :eyes: Joey the Scar repeatedly calls Hillary "MY GIRLFRIEND." :puke: Mika giggles and is constantly backing down via intimidation. The third chair constantly defers to Joe;s manly musk. :(

[Politicalboi]

233. Yeah and we

Know what happens to Joe's girlfriends. :hide:

[DeanDem10]

443. You are right...

And we shouldn't forget how FOX personalities and guests are pushing Hillary over Obama. Ann Coulter has tried to get Republicans to vote for HRC.

And on radio, Rush have been trying to get Republicans to vote for Hillary.

[DMorgan]

171. Hillary and her supporters, VICTIMS once again! Oh Dear!

You wonder why they keep playing the victim card. If Hillary just stopped lying and pandering and misleading the voters, maybe they wouldn't be victimized any more by truth seeking journalists! Just an idea.

[LaurenG]

120. I've never known Keith to lie. In fact if he has misrepresented or

spoken an untruth he has always apologized and corrected himself. He's been worse person in the world for it.

I wonder if Senator Clinton supporters will ever realize that it's not Keith who is wrong about this?

[a la izquierda]

124. right on.

the KO love fest will start all over again when all this nonsense is over with. I'm bookmarking this thread to come back to it when that happens.

[DMorgan]

172. Not a chance Hillary supporters will ever realize, Nope!

[McCamy Taylor]

428. He never corrects his mistatments about Clinton-Obama. He said that

hearsay about what someone claimed to have said at a party in Canada turned the Obama campaign's double talk on NAFTA around 180 degrees---and did not apologize or correct that.

He vouched for the doctored Matt Drudge video that Drudge made of Clinton's 60 Minutes interview--the one in which she first says emphatically "No! Of course not" and then when she was pressed again to give proof said "No...as far as I know" and then when she was badgered a third time explained that the Obama-Muslim stories were all part of a right wing conspiracy. KO went on air and told the world that the Matt Drudge doctored tape was the legitimate tape. I am cutting him some slack. He was probably watching sports and never saw the original interview. But he never corrected himself.

He aired the Trimble quote about Hillary being a "wee bit silly" to say she helped in Northern Ireland, but he did not ever mention that John Hume called Trimble a liar and said that Hillary was a great help----Trimble is a conservative politician by the way, the equivalent of a Republican and an Irish Protestant---or that Sen. George Mitchell also praised her help and that Irish women involved in the process had praised her help or that the NYT had written several articles about the warm feelings that Northern Irish had for Hillary Clinton for the perceived role which she played in helping to broker the peace. All he did later was mention in passing that there was a 50/50 debate on it. That was a deliberate distortion on his part. Trimble lied, because he is a conservative, meaning a GOP transatlantic ally.

Even after the stupid hospital story had already been debunked he brought it up as another scandal and made Dana Milbank walk through it and then acted gracious when he said they would give her a pass on this one----


Margaret Carlson's words to the Rolling Stone----it was more fun to make fun of Gore for lying about something even if he didn't lie than it was to fact check W. in 2000--come to mind.

[DeanDem10]

127. KO is one of only two on-air personalities cutting Dems any slack

You had no problem when he loved Hillary. Now that he is pissed off at her, you think it is all KOs fault. Why do you not look at the objective facts? You lump him in with all the others despite the fact that only he and Dan Abrams on "talk news" (I use term news loosely), defends Democrats in general. Abrams still favors Hillary over Barack. You don't take issue with him, despite him being over the top and even arrogant and obnoxious.

So, why did KO first heavily lean toward Hillary? I watch that show (and others regularly and monitor media in my spare time). He was fawning in his admiration of both Clintons. I was struck by the unabashed praise and admiration he showed early on. Again, what changed? Why is it always someone else's fault? Why not the candidate? It's not a conspiracy where he is concerned. It was events, behaviors, things she and her campaign did. It was the record, the DLC leadership she envisions.

If you have not gotten KO's singularly courageous Special Comments on a regular basis, you do not know anything about him. His special comments on the unitary executive and Constitutional issues, as well as the silence-dissenters pieces, are the best things on television. He is an on-air hero. So enough with the Bill-O claims. How you can say he is Bill-O, when he takes Bill-O on regularly means you do not really get it at all. You are blinded by your anger that he bailed on Hillary.

Originally I leaned toward Obama, but around Aug/Sept I leaned Edwards. In Jan I briefly moved Hillary up on my list just under Edwards. And then I did two things: I read all much as I could get a hold of (of the candidates speeches (their own words), their websites, etc. I watched their speeches from beginning to end on CSPAN2 and cable, or I read the transcripts. A very different picture emerges. And, despite being manipulated by Clinton to be upset with Obama in Jan, I found that I really supported Obama. I have not looked back. Unfortunately too many gullible voters have been swayed by snarky, and even vicious comments by Hillary. Don't tell me the media did it. I heard her. She did this.

I am a woman, a feminist in Hillary's demographic (60 something). And I have never seen a Democratic candidate so brutally undermine another Democrat. Her behavior in the PA so-called debate was the last straw for me. It is a deal breaker for me. Hillary needs to do a stint at the Sorrenson Institute at UVA to learn how to deal with colleagues. There are no circumstances under which I could lift a finger to help her should the Supers hand it to her.

The other problems you cite about the media are generally on target. But you are just too biased on the subject of Hillary right now to see the obvious fact: And, I personally think KO has done a service. His Hillary Rules segment yesterday was not only fair, but on the money.

[DeanDem10]

129. And as a feminist

I must vote for the best candidate, Barack Obama. I did not get the vote to vote in lock step, or "vote my gender" just because that's the way it's been (in reverse). I got it to do the right thing, to weigh the candidates, the determine who, in my view, had the judgment, the ideas, the right experience. But, no, you suggest we Obama supporters are being had by the media. In point of fact, Hillary has lessened the gap by bringing the full force of the media against Obama. Hillary has actually benefited from the media assault on Obama and she has fed it.

If she had stopped pumping this stuff, it would have stopped. But she had no interest in doing so--until Sunday when she finally did a 180 degree and tried (too late)to act "presidential," never mind the horrendous PA "debate," the Bill-C follies nastily lashing out at Obama and his supporters. The poor Clintons are just so unprivileged, such victims --elites such as they are.

[DeanDem10]

133. One more thing before I take my (temproary) leave from reading this journal...

Hillary's "Rules" or spin for how the votes, caucuses, delegates, and Superdelegates should be used to decide this do change by the day. And in that respect, she has become a parody of herself. There is nothing wrong with such parodies as the one KO did yesterday. In fact, HRC should take a look at it and see how ridiculous her change-by-the-day spin of the rules seems to many.

[DMorgan]

134. Funny how Keith O was a wonderful man when he criticized

the hypocrisy, lies, and scandals of the Bush administration, but NOT SO wonderful when he points out the same types of character flaws about Hillary!!! Gee, do we see a double standard? With Hillary supporters, of course we do!

[jhrobbins]

302. It isn't the same thing and you know it - if KO attacked BO the way he has

been attacking HRC, I would fell the same way about it. I agree with Reagan's 11 Commandment (with one major twist) 'Though shalt not talk evil against a fellow Democrat'. KO is being about as 'fair and balanced' as the network he so despises.

[Andrea]

342. I feel the same way, but

the "True Believers" in one camp will insist we are lying about it. They don't agree with that commandment (rightly twisted) and that's why this is being allowed to go on, both on KO's show and at DU and elsewhere.

[Beausoir]

135. Olberman has morphed into a mean-spirited Ted Baxter. Complete with wardrobe and shellacked hair.

He's a pompous gasbag. A former sportsjock turned Edward R. Murrow wannabee.

He not interested in reporting the news...he wants to MAKE the news.

[ShortnFiery]

139. Always pearls of wisdom from 1984's BEST!

What's up is down? What's bad is good? Amazing spin. :crazy:

Truth is that KO is the ONE true progressive voice on the M$M.

Now go forth and spread some personal insult but "The Truth" can NOT be morphed by BUNK.

What you and yours are peddling would make P.T. Barnum blush. ;)

[IndianaJones]

136. Olbermann is a sportscaster that has marketed himself as the biggest draw on a crappy network. nt

[SeaLyons]

137. Hope KO is reading this....

great post!!

[smiley_glad_hands]

140. I like KO, he is the only news I can stand to watch on cable.

Sorry if he doesn't identify with your candidate or your candidate's tactics. You've been blinded by Hilliary.

On edit: Laughing......This coming from a supporter of the candidate who embraces faux news and murdoch. You guys have truly jumped the shark.

[ProSense]

143. "He called Clinton’s proposed gas tax cuts 'pandering"" OMG. What an utterly ridiculous post

Half the OP isn't even about KO.

[Evergreen Emerald]

145. I have been saying this all along, And for some reason people keep believing the media

We all know it is propaganda. We all know what they have been doing the last eight years. And yet, many on DU HATE Clinton. How? What do they know about her other than the media portrayals?

It is something to see really. Of course there are many Americans over half of the democrats who are not buying the vilification of Clinton. And that's why, despite the media and the lemmings, Clinton still stands.

[urgk]

158. We know that she lies.

The media hasn't had to misrepresent her sniper story. And it wasn't a mistake. No one has a vague recollection of being shot at. It's not like trying to remember where you put your coat or whether there's any 2% milk left in the fridge. She lied in an effort to make her role as first Lady seem more important than it was. She lied to back her claim that both she and John McCain had more experience than Obama.

Hillary Clinton will lie. And it doesn't take any spin to prove it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

163. oh brother. the fact that you are so willing to distort and twist and believe

everythign you hear is amazing.

When Obama lies, you all forgive him, or ignore it.

But when Clinton went into the FRONT LINES of a WAR ZONE and there was sniper fire overheard during the news reports (proving that snipers were in the area)--you all use that to make a blanket statement: "she is a liar."

If she is a liar, then Obama is a liar. You cannot have it both ways.

[shagsak]

309. I would assume you have a link to one of Obama's many lies

Should be easy since he lies CONSTANTLY :sarcasm:

and also to the FRONT LINES of the WAR ZONE (during peace talks and a cease fire agreement) See link below.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/campaign.wrap/index.html

I've been using the misspoke verbage all over the place and absolutely love it. Anytime you get caught in a lie just say you misspoke! It's great!


"Mr. Jordache you told us you held a 4.0 gpa at MIT, but your transcripts show you were kicked out... care to explain?"
"Yeah, about that, seems I may have misspoke."
"Great, that's all we needed to know, you're hired!"

[papau]

341. I listed the Obama 4 statements on Wright -each contradicting the others - none of which were true

[shagsak]

489. Which post?

I wasn't replying to your post but if you like, send me the post number (I'm not going to go through all 400 posts) and I'd be glad to give you a proper rebuttal.

[shagsak]

491. Oh nevermind

You're so blinded by your absolute love for your candidate that debate with you is pointless and meaningless. I just noticed that almost every post you have is spite filled and angry. Maybe you'll come around election time, or maybe you'll vote McCain to teach America a lesson. Or maybe you could start a thread on how if Florida's and Michigan's delegates were seated how Hillary wouldn't be losing by as much. Here at DU, your options are unlimited!

[urgk]

481. Let's go hypothetical...

You say "But when Clinton went into the FRONT LINES of a WAR ZONE..." Let's say you're right. I'm willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of having a reasoned discussion. So, let's say she's not a liar, but that she actually believed that her life was in danger. Then she's not a liar, she's a bad mother. You've seen the footage...in the midst of this front line war zone sniper fire she's clearly in no hurry to get Chelsea to safety. Nor is she concerned for the little soldier with the flowers who has popped up from her muddy foxhole to give Hillary what must be the last flower in no-man's land.

So, there you go. She's not a liar, she WAS in danger. But she's a lousy mom.

[IsItJustMe]

147. Sounds like you and your family will have to go back with Fox and Rush.

[HootieMcBoob]

148. Clinton not just pissing of KO

She is alienating most of her party.

She is the new Joe Lieberman. Remember...Lieberman won and look what you've got now.

If you want to go back to the 16 state strategy and Republican control of congress, more nafta-like treaties, even more media consolidation and on and on, then be my guest, elect Hillary Clinton.

Elect Hillary Clinton and put the DLC back in charge of The Democratic Party and disassemble everything that progressives have been working for for so many years.

If you want to strengthen The Republican Party and destroy The Democratic Party then by all means elect Hillary Clinton.

Great.

Be my guest.

:grr:

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hell-bent]

166. I have a feeling that you

are really a fucked up misogynist!

[Avalux]

173. LOL

Yeah, I'm a single mom raising three daughters on my own feminist misogynist. Thanks for the laugh!!! :rofl:

[0007]

180. Bravo! Bravo! leaning & spelling big words is an improvement.

from your other posts.

[hell-bent]

259. Could you explain "leaning" big words?

[ProSense]

179. Nailed it! n/t

[urgk]

154. Maybe he's right.

What happens to your argument if he's right? What if Hillary *is* a lying, manipulative, right-leaning, disingenuous, amoral, two-faced politician who would do anything to grab more power?

I mean, what if she IS?

Wouldn't it be Keith's job to report it? I mean if Keith talks about Haliburton or Kellogg, Brown and Root or Rush Limbaugh and points out the ways that they lie, cheat and manipulate, is he biased against them? Or is he just doing his job?

And what if Obama has run a more dignified, moral and genuine campaign than Hillary has? What if he has? Is it Keith's job to manufacture outrage against Obama or to report Obama's response to the Clinton attacks as somehow unacceptable? Should he skew the news to make things appear to be even if in fact they aren't? Should Keith blow something about Obama's ex-pastor out of proportion when Hillary's campaign manager represents union-busting interests, works on deals that would hurt America's working class and works on behalf of Blackwater?

It isn't the job of the media to represent both sides of any issue equally, it is the job of the media to represent the truth at the core of any given set of events. Keith may pack drama into his reporting, but if, at its core, his message is backed by the facts, it is his moral obligation to present it to the public.

[DMorgan]

157. Brilliant post Great Questions! I doubt the Hillary folks see it that way,... and

They seem to delight in such wonderful condemnations of Keith O as "gas-bag" or "straight down thru the shitter"!

Truly critical thinkers here!

[dbmk]

165. Eeeh?

"KO called attempts to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida the “nuclear option”."
I have seen it described as such more or less everywhere.

"He called Clinton’s proposed gas tax cuts “pandering”."
EVERYONE not deep in the Clinton or McCain camp calls it pandering.

[DS1]

170. WAAHHh Big Bully going after our precious fighter who can take anything from the right wing

but someone calls her on her repeated bullshit and he's a monster!

waahh!

Oh, sweet Precious One Hillary! Please pay no mind to that bad man in the corner.



God you Clintoners are pathetic.

[ShortnFiery]

198. THAT mean ole David Schuster who DARE stain the purity and glamor of Princess Chelsea ...

after all it's not her fault that she's had EXTENSIVE plastic surgery and still is only 12 years old ... well 28 years old but she should NOT be questioned because she's now a "beautiful swan" who works for a hedge fund ... no NO QUESTIONS or MEDIA interviews for Princess Chelsea. :eyes:

If The Clintons score a 3rd term in the WH, the M$M will be scared almost as SHIT-LESS as they were after 9-11 with Bush.

Don't. YOU. Dare!

1) ask about Monica,

2) mention ANY thing negative about Princess Chelsea,

3) ask how Bill's women diet is coming along,

4) EVER QUESTION HRC *absolute* authority and expertise at micro-management of every damn thing she wants. :crazy:

[hell-bent]

255. Don't you dare!

1)question Obama's 20 year association with Rev. Wright

2)criticize Princess Michelle

3)wonder about Obama's relationship with Mr.Rezko

4)question his early us of drugs

[ShortnFiery]

311. That's chicken feed ...

I'll see your Rev. Wright and raise you an re-opening of Vince Foster's "suicide." :evilgrin:

[Andrea]

466. You forgot the Excelon scandal and

his statement about "typical white people".

[femrap]

174. K and R, McCamy.

OMG...I had no idea that the MSM were saying these things. I quit watching cable news...all news, really a long time ago because it made me so angry.

It's absolutely unbelievable the amount of misogyny that is spewed. This can have a very detrimental effect on how males regard women who are smart and communicate well.

I truly deplore what our culture has become.

I do appreciate your efforts at demonstrating how the MSM is treating HRC and all women. Thank you for keeping me informed.

KO sucks...it's just too bad he can't suck his own...he'd be quiet at least. LOL! :evilgrin:

[Zodiak]

206. It amazes me that you rail against sexism

With this line in your post

"KO sucks...it's just too bad he can't suck his own...he'd be quiet at least. LOL!"

Irony alert.

[femrap]

361. When are you dudes going to

understand and learn that we live in a fucking patriarchy??? You set the rules....and boy oh boy, when the rules are turned against you (like I just did...I insulted the ruling gender when only women are allowed to be insulted), you call me the sexist!

Get a book on sexism or feminism and read it and maybe then you will get a slight insight as to what I'm talking about and my tactics. My tactic is to put the shoe on the other foot for a change and see how the males like being ridiculed and insulted....calling us bitches is AOK with you all. So I say, my insults are only fair.

Maybe you don't call women bitches. Maybe you don't laugh at rape jokes. Maybe you respect your sisters. But you sure as hell aren't doing a very good job of enlightening your brothers cuz women take crap from males IRL and at DU all the time.

KO has turned into a real pig...I used to really admire him...but his ego got too big. I don't watch any cable or MSM news.

BTW, I've never seen you at DU before and with Ignore, I never have to again.

[Zodiak]

371. Insults are the lowest discourse, and they undermine your stated didactic purpose

So I see no logic whatsoever in their use in the service of advancing feminism.

I would wager that all of that rationalizing your behavior hides your true reasons, and that is simply to hurl insults at an entire sex for some real or perceived slight. That is not feminism...that is childishness. You want to advance the cause, then speak about it. All I see are insults and bathroom jokes.

I am no more responsible for other men's actions than you are of all women's actions, or Hillary for that matter....or Barack Obama is for all African American's actions. That is a major false attribution.

As for not seeing me before....not a surprise....I read way more than I post.

Thanks for the ignore, too...the first one to my knowledge! :yourock:

[Sundoggy]

425. Please ignore me too n/t

[dbonds]

178. Its a shame Clinton supporters done see whats going on..

With all the pendents against you, especial those that are great progressives, sometimes you have to ask 'is it me?'. KO is only saying what progressives are thinking.

[sallyseven]

197. We are not stupid. We know what is going

on, the MSM is again picking the president. They don't give one razzen toot about what is good for the country just the bottom line for the Corporations. They don't want a black man in power.

[Texas Hill Country]

182. the media has been utterly repulsive in the way they have treated hillary

[ProSense]

185. When Hillary supporters claim to be a minority on this board and

whine about Obama Underground, point them to this OP's masterpieces of distortion. Who recs this crap?

[ShortnFiery]

193. Funny, my 14 year old daughter quips, "Keith Olbermann ROCKS!"

Keith Olbermann :yourock: :thumsup:

[barb162]

202. That's because she's 14.

He's not exactly doing analytical, insightful, adult level commentary any more. He's just doing teen-ager level daily propaganda for Obama mainly through attacking HRC on anything and everything and ignoring it when Obama does the same things.

[Technodaoist]

296. And the OP's family is taking notes from their 16 year old...

So which teen is right?

Or is it just that what should be a national discourse and discussion has been reduced to high-school bickering?

[ShortnFiery]

322. If we graduated to H.S. Bickering it would be a step-up. We're still stuck in J.H. antics ...

THANKS mostly to the "dirty tricks" and "pandering" of The Goddess of M.E. Obliteration. :shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

319. No, 14 y.o.s are finishing up 8th grade and are beginning analytical thinking PLUS ...

and what I love about teenagers, they have a very low tolerance for bullshit.

For all their faults, I see that the young people (teens) of THIS era are a far sight more mature than us pre-hippies of the Junior High 70s. :evilgrin:

You've touched on a major problem: The lack of EMPATHY between teens and adults.

I know that you can do it ... try to understand the world from their view? THEY are the ones who will inherit it and many of them are FAR LESS prejudice than their parents. :shrug:

[barb162]

473. I was a teenager once so I think I can see things in their eyes.

But the fact remains I prefer seeing things out of my eyes now with a lot more experience and hopefully some wisdom. Kids don't have that. SO that's what KO is appealing to, the kids who are just STARTING to think analytically, but they don't do it all the time.

[ShortnFiery]

478. That's the problem. To truly be *wise* is to realize that you don't know every damn thing.

That, just perhaps, we could all learn some valuable lessons from our teenagers. :shrug:

[madrchsod]

199. nice picture comrade

but i like this one better

[McCamy Taylor]

430. Great Chairman Meow! You rock!

:yourock:

[sasquatch]

200. KO spent the 90's defending the Clintons, so this thread is absolute Bullshit

And everybody who recommended this thread are douchebags.

[barb162]

204. WHat he did in the 90s has nothing to do with what Countdown's about now.

He's just propagandizing for Obama now, day after day.

[Technodaoist]

299. So then what the Clinton's did in the 90's has nothing to do with what Hillary is about now?

Like her willingness to fight big pharm instead of taking funding? Or her military record in Bosnia?

Which thing are you trying to selectively forget?


Hillary's "Propaganda" = good.
Olbermann's "Propaganda" = bad.


So much cognitive dissonance...

[gaspee]

244. In the 90's?

What a joke! Do you even know what KO was doing in the 90's?

BwahahahahahahA!

[sasquatch]

364. Sportscenter and later he worked at MSNBC and quit because of 24/7 Monica coverage

[Andrea]

467. Sure, there's nothing unreasonable about your statement.

There's no reason for you not to declare a bunch of unknown people douchebags. It certainly makes a valuable contribution to the discourse and might increase the level of understanding among all involved.

[sasquatch]

476. I sorry but the same people that equate "O'Reilly=Olbermann" are douchebags

If they can't see that Hillary is trying to kneecap our frontrunner and aid John McCain at the same time is a douchebag.

Anybody that thinks Olbermann is sexist for not bowing down to the infallible Princess Hillary is a douchebag.

Anybody that thinks that Olbermann needs to be off the air is a douchebag.


I'll stand beside my statement 100%

[JoFerret]

499. They are both partisan blowhards

So where's your problem?

[JBShakes]

205. Ms. Taylor, I rec'd this...

Because I'm impressed by the quality of your writing, and I'd like to have an honest discussion about some of these topics. I'll be the first to admit that Senator Clinton has taken more than her share of unfair attacks during her political career - and I'd like to suggest that the lesson she learned from this is that the only way to win is to be BETTER at those kinds of tactics, rather than refuting them and proving you can win without them.

That said, what you miss here is simple - both Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olbermann are COMMENTATORS. They are NOT - repeat, NOT - journalists. A commentator has no responsibility to be UNBIASED. Criticism of both Olbermann and O'Reilly can certainly be leveled, but it should be leveled in terms of the intellectual honesty of their commentary, and not based on whether or not they have an agenda, because they certainly do. So to refute a handful of the points you've raised about KO's "bias":

-KO called attempts to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida the “nuclear option”.

Yup, sure did. Of course, that's only proof of "bias" if you ignore the fact that the "nuclear option" characterization of the planned leverage of DNC rules committee members isn't actually Olbermann's, but rather that of Tom Edsall on the Huffington Post, and it's become part of general parlance at this point. Did Olbermann make any points about whether or not he agrees with this strategy that you'd like to discuss? Personally, I have no problem with it - Florida and Michigan have become a real problem in this process, and bring up some much-needed reforms to DNC procedures for the future. If it takes the Clinton campaign exercising this "nuclear option" to have an honest discussion which resolves this problem in a constructive way, I'm all for it - I have enough confidence in my candidate to believe he can get the nomination with Florida and Michigan seated, even as voted in the primaries which weren't supposed to count. KO's approval/disapproval of this strategy may have more to do a suspicion that Senator Clinton's new-found fervor over being "fair" to FLA and MI voters has more to do with her NEEDING those delegates to keep things close than it does out of any real respect for those voters. I'd tend to agree with that argument, but if you can make a convincing argument otherwise, I'm happy to hear it.

-He called Clinton’s proposed gas tax cuts “pandering”.
Please explain how it's not. Almost every analysis of this idea I've seen has called it pure political pandering in an attempt to make Senator Clinton seem like "the woman of the people". Given the fact that the ONLY way Senator Clinton's version of the gas-tax holiday proposal would work without depleting the National Highway Trust Fund would be to get President Bush to sign off on a windfall profit tax on big oil, she's essentially proposing an idea that sounds good and has NO realistic chance of ever happening. To me, that's a TEXTBOOK definition of pandering.

-“quoting Ronald Reagan”
So it's only OK to feign outrage when someone else praises Reagan? Please explain why it's not fair game to criticize Senator Clinton for quoting Reagan when Senator Clinton HERSELF criticized Senator Obama for supposedly "praising" Reagan.

-George Lewis (quoting) “’ too New York, too elitist, too cold, if you will’’’
Again, apparently calling someone else an "elitist" is only a bad thing if it's aimed at Senator Clinton.

-The Nation “She is an unrepentant hawk, à la Joe Lieberman.”
Hmmm...AUMF vote, and the ongoing refusal to admit it was a mistake? Kyl/Lieberman vote on Iran? "Obliterate" Iran? Please explain how this is an "attack" and not necessarily an analysis of Senator Clinton's ACTIONS.

Criticism /= Bias, Ms. Taylor. And I think you're smart enough to recognize that. The incessant "poor me" victimization of the candidate who was at one point the presumptive nominee (back before the voting actually started) is starting to wear thin.

[McCamy Taylor]

432. "cold" "hawk" those are the propaganda words "nuclear" and "pander" are shock words

Ask yourself "Would Bill Moyers use them?" If Bill Moyers would not use them---at least not without clarification or not in an interview in which he asks the subject to respond---then their is something questionable about there use.

I remember what commentators used to do. They did not talk like shock jocks on the radio. They described actions. They did not characterize using strings of adjectives like "cold" "nuclear" hawk". I guess we can blame people like Gore Vidal and Hunter S. Thompson---except that Vidal and Thompson were brilliant writers who knew how to use shocking language to make valid points.

Now we have a nation of Vidal and Thompson wannabes who attempt to ape them, but they do not have the skill to use words as the master used them. When they toss out shocking words, they sound like teenagers trying to impress each other. Or like third string propaganda writer for some second rate fascist regime in a backwater island country in the middle of nowhere.

[JBShakes]

486. True. Those ARE "shock" words.

And so is "obliterate". So what?

The biggest problem I have with your argument is that you suggest that Thompson and Vidal used "shock words" to make VALID points, suggesting then that Olbermann and the like make points that are invalid. I'd suggest that your evaluation is opinion-based; I'm sure you could find any number of contemporaries of Vidal & Dr. Thompson who didn't find their points all that valid.

Commentary is, in and of itself, an expression of opinion - nothing more, nothing less. If you are inclined to agree with that opinion, it seems valid to you.

The biggest problem I have with the sudden sea of Clinton supporters shouting "KO sucks" all of a sudden is that up until a few months ago when he began criticizing the conduct of her campaign, you all were just fine with Keith.

It's a pattern of behavior:

The people who've supported and defended you in the past are wonderful - until they disagree with you or criticize you, and then they're part of the big conspiracy out to get you, or a "Judas".
Small states and "red" states are important - until they vote for the other guy, and then they don't count.
Economists are important to listen to - until they disagree with the gas-tax holiday proposal, and then they're just pushing "elite opinions", and holding the little guy down.
The activist base and educated Democrats are part of the core of the party - until we started voting for Obama, and now suddenly we're the "creative class", always denoted with those insulting quotation marks to suggest that because we don't work in factories or own a pickup truck, we should have LESS say in how we govern this country.

It's an attitude of "you're either with us, or against us", to slightly paraphrase a recent remark of Senator Clinton's (and somebody else...who was it again who once used that phrase?). It's every bit as divisive as Reverend Wright's comments - and yet no one, not even all those terribly biased commentators you seem to see everywhere, has had the nerve to call Senator Clinton, the Clinton campaign, or her supporters on it, and make that comparison.

Not all criticism is intended to be destructive - and not all criticism is unjustified or undeserved. I think Senator Clinton and the folks who support her spent so long on the receiving end of UNJUSTIFIED criticism that they simply can't tell the difference anymore.

In all honesty - I have a GREAT deal of respect for Senator Clinton. If I was voting solely on policy, I'd probably be voting for her. But I'm not voting solely on policy.

I'm also voting on a philosophy that says a leader who INSPIRES is better than a leader who offers to do everything for those who choose them to lead.
I'm voting based on a track record - a track record showing that Senator Clinton may be a "fighter" when she fights back against criticism, but when it comes to fighting in the face of real opposition to her policies? (think "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", think healthcare reform in 1993, think Nafta, think Cafta, etc.)
Ehh...not so much.

If Senator Clinton fought as hard for the policies she says she cares about as she (and her campaign) have fought to make us think that only certain states count, as hard as they've fought to scare us with Reverend Wright's rhetoric, as hard as they've fought to try and suggest that Obama just can't beat McCain in November, she'd have my vote. It's as simple as that.

[MessiahRp]

209. How dare Keith call people out on their bullshit?!?! What an asshole!

Hillary supporters are the most ridiculous people on earth.

Keith is a hero when he calls people out for spewing propaganda and bullshit. Usually the Right Wing is the most active in spewing such nonsense so they are the easiest targets of his attacks.

But when the Clinton camp starts spewing the same garbage straight from the RW playbooks (See: Sidney Blumenthal) now he's not supposed to call out the same lies and propaganda he would if the same exact statements came from the other side?

It's gotten so desperate on the Clinton side that any rationale to attack anybody not 100% in lockstep with her has been used.

-She agrees to FL & MI not counting for breaking party rules, then when she knows she is going to lose this race she claims they are disenfranchised

-She allows members of her campaign to use blatant racism

-She makes up complete lies about Sniper Fire in Bosnia and then doesn't expect to be called on for it

-She sends out RW smears on Obama and keeps non-issues like flag pins, Rev. Wright and Ayers alive in the media

-She declares John McCain a more worthy Presidential candidate and gets chummy with BillO

-She has members of her campaign employing a third party group to illegally disenfranchise black voters with robocalls in primary states

-She ramps up war rhetoric to threaten to nuke Iran at a time when our troops have never been stretched so thin.


So yes she deserves to be called out for this shit. Keith is not the bad guy, the one using Republican tactics are.

And if you agree with the Republican tactics, maybe you should find a Republican message board community to frequent because this is DEMOCRATIC Underground after all.

Rp

[mcollier]

217. The cards have been played

the bet has been made... Just because you don't like the way the cards were dealt you can't pick up your money, or claim you've won... The rules are clear the candidate with the most delegates earns the nomination. Agreed???

[DS1]

224. But she's a fighter! She can handle herself against anything the RW will throw at her

If she could just do something about those pesky lefties looking for a shred of truth in a candidacy, she'd be all set!

[DMorgan]

230. YEah, Clinton supporters hate Keith O more than they do McSame!

[McCamy Taylor]

493. I do not think that most Democrats HATE anyone. However KO seems to HATE Clinton a lot right now.

He expresses his hatred and rejection for Clinton the human being in the way that he uses the language of the right wing to characterize her as a lying cheating cold calculating bitch--never using the bitch word, of course, because it would be politically incorrect.

CNN was a breath of fresh air last night. I had forgotten what it was like to watch real news coverage from a network that is not trying to sell nukes.

[Leocattiglio]

210. O'reilly is the worst

KO might not be perfect, but he's certainly no O'reilly. O'reilly is the dumbest TV personality.

[bjnumb9]

212. KO speaks the truth

Sorry you don't like it.

[papau]

344. KO does selective truth and outright lies to push Obama campaign

[hisownpetard]

214. What a great OP, detailing a week's worth of comments that made me go, "YESSS!"

Keith rules!

Thanks for the pick-me-up.

[dogday]

219. What happened to him and the news he used to do?

Great stories on Torture, on Downing Street, on The Justice Department scandal.. And especially the handling of the Iraq war....

Those were the great stories he used to work on, he doesn't do news anymore....

[Political Heretic]

223. Wow, an op-ed commentator has an opinion you don't like. HE IS SATAN!!!

:eyes:

[raystorm7]

227. Cry More please!

[smoogatz]

234. If your head's full of weird clanking sounds, it's probably the cognitive

dissonance. Given that the Republicans are all rooting for Hillary to win the nom, that is. Including Bill-O the Blowhard. Has it ever occurred to you to wonder WHY the Republicans are all rooting for Hillary? Why Murdoch and Scaife are both backing her? Why don't you take a minute to ponder that one and then get back to us, mmmkay?

[Pawel K]

235. You guys are fucking nuts

throw the only progressive in the main stream media under the bus because you don't like that fact that he is right.

Please be honest, are you doing this so you have another chance to support Hillary in 2012? Because I see no other reasoning for what you guys are doing to this party.

[rainlillie]

247. ITA!!!

.

[Pawel K]

294. ?

What's ITA?

[Shakespeare]

236. Funny, I don't recall KO screaming at people, cutting off their mics....

....or lying.

You're full of shit, as per usual.

I'd just like to know if ANY Hillary supporters pause, ever, to consider why it is that the journalists and pundits on our side of the aisle are so critical of her. Hint: it's not a conspiracy, and it's not sexism. She's run a lousy, vicious campaign, and her policy suggestions--most recently the ridiculous gas tax holiday idea--are not just bad ideas, but utterly unrepresentative of what a democrat should be proposing.

But instead of looking critically at what's going on with her campaign, you reject and denounce everybody who's dared to question her, and the (absurd) list grows daily. Something is very, very wrong when your enemies list includes Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, and the litany of others who are now dead to you. Sad.

[Technodaoist]

237. Uhhh...

KO called attempts to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida the “nuclear option”.
He called Clinton’s proposed gas tax cuts “pandering”.
He called Clinton’s response to Obama ads which distort remarks Krugman made “attack ads”.
Milbank says Clinton is not “worried about casualties.”


Clinton's camp HAS called it the "nuclear option"
Clinton's camp HAS been pandering in its approach to the gas tax "cuts".
Clinton's camp HAS been using attack ads to refute statements of fact.
Clinton's camp doesn't give a damn about casualties to the party OR the process. If she did, she would have negotiated her way out of this mess after Iowa.


Your arguments defeat themselves. Your arguments are disingenuous - Take the "random sample" you took... what a joke - try taking a true random sample of episode and time without cherry-picking the out-of-context spots that prove your so-called "point". And throwing every other tool in the media on the pile does nothing but further obfuscate the non-point you are trying so hard to "prove". Good job on trying to drag KO down with the others in our MSM that have failed us for the past eight years.

KO has always spoken truth to power - no matter who was in the hot-seat... Sorry if Clinton's supporters can't take it criticism. Yet another similarity with our current administration it would appear...


Remove the log from your own eye before you go helping KO or anyone else.
Keep moving them goalposts...

[Sundoggy]

239. It is good for all of us

to every once in a while be reminded what totally unhinged behavior looks like. Thanks!

[WarhammerTwo]

242. Mind boggling...

I'm boggled by how much the folks here are bickering over this. Look, I'm a registered independent. I didn't vote in our primary because I am an independent. To me, I don't care whether Clinton or Obama gets the nomination. Their policies are so damn similar that I'm happy with either option. You should be too. But noooooooooooo. We gotta crack the friggin' base in two.

Come November, whoever it is will get my vote because 4 years of McCain will, no doubt, be far, far worse than either Clinton or Obama. So here's the deal, if your primary is over and you voted, good for you. Thank you for doing your duty. Now please be quiet until this thing is over. Your vote is your say and you've had it already. Let those who have yet to vote have their say.

As far as KO goes, I think he's on an anti-Clinton tirade because the longer this thing drags on, the chances of the Democratic nominee winning the GE get smaller. Right now, as it stand according to every God blessed expert I've heard, Clinton cannot win this unless she has MAJOR BLOW OUT victories in the upcoming primaries and then persuades Super Delegates to throw in behind her. Chances of major blow outs are pretty much not going to happen. And since Obama has the popular vote and elected delegate advantage, it would be very, very bad for the Super Delegates to overturn the will of the majority of the voters. You want to see the Republicans go on a feeding frenzy? They'll jump all over the fact that behind the scenes politicking got Clinton the nomination. It'll disenfranchise democrats, rally republicans and drive away independents. THEY WILL MAKE IT A SCANDAL! It will stick and it will hurt. Look what they did to McCain in the 2000 primary. Look what they did to Kerry in 2004. When it became a reality that the only way for Clinton to get the nod was to get the Super Delegates to give it to her, she probably should've stopped. But she didn't. Hopefully, if Obama wins both primaries today, we can finally put this thing to bed.

And remember, if Clinton does get the nod, I WILL VOTE FOR HER despite how she got the nomination. Either Democrat is better than John McCain. Anywho, I'm getting off my point. I think KO sees the writing on the wall and he's doing all he can to finally end this so that the party can rally around one candidate, which statistically looks like Obama. I believe with all my heart, KO does not want to see a Republican in the White House come November. I hope you all feel the same way.

And one more thing, to all of you who are complaining about how nothing (scandal-wise)is sticking to Obama, isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that mean he has a great chance of standing up to the Republican smear machine? Kerry didn't stand up to it and lookie at the wonderful past four years we've had as a result. And don't think the media isn't trying. I can't turn around without reading something about Reverend Wright. If we have a candidate that is like teflon, we should fully embrace it and ride that pony all the way to Pennsylvania Avenue.

Later gators.
Obama 08. Wait, scratch that.
Clinton 08. Wait. Forget that, too.
Democrats 08. Yeah, that's more like it.

[rainlillie]

243. Keith like many democrats just got fed up

With Hilary's lies, deceptions, implications and half truths. Call him what you want, one thing about him he isn't a liar..can you say the same about Hilary??

[frylock]

250. keith's bullshit detector is spot on..

you should have yours calibrated, ASAP.

[gaspee]

252. Lots of newbies

Are responding to this thread -- and I mean, really newbies...

Keith's interns, is that you???

[Technodaoist]

256. Nope

Long time reader.

Rarely a poster.

I have to put in my two cents on this tho. To compare KO to O'R is like saying E.R. Murrow is Goebbels.

I have now Godwinned myself out of this thread - and none too soon.

[awoke_in_2003]

257. "I have not heard him utter a truly populist or concerned word"

That is rich. A Clinton supporter preaching that KO is not a populist. I hope you realize that the only real populace candidate we had this cycle dropped out months ago. Neither Obama nor Clinton are populist.

[dollydew]

258. Barack Obama

who has never stood up for poor blacks, Who is more worried about his reputation than making Rezko pay for his slum lord crimes. Who threw his long time pastor under the bus while his supporters played holier than thou. Us old broads don't forget. Keep believing the news media black vote count. I watched him, on You Tube, sound as radical, if not moreso, than Farrakhan. Things people would rather forget. He is a typical politician. His supporters brag that he won't do whatever it takes to win. If he won't then he must want to lose to McCain. You can't have it both ways.

[gaspee]

261. Finally!

Someone else sees what a fraud Obama is! There are too many people who can't see it.

I feel like I did in 2000 when Bush was appointed President.

[Technodaoist]

266. Flip that coin

You think Clinton gaming the process ISN'T like Bush being appointed?

Keep trolling.

[gaspee]

270. TROLLING?

LOL! A dude with 8 fucking posts calling me a troll

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


MORAN

[Technodaoist]

272. Ayup

More posts = More trolling.

Trolling is as trolling does.

Keep replying to me and we can troll each other.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

276. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to... oooooooo, shiny!!!"

Brilliant! :evilgrin:

[swishyfeet]

265. That's a staggering amount of bullshit

All you've got is scary black man?

IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION: Trillions of $$ and hundreds of thousands of dead.

You need to work on your priorities.

[dollydew]

267. Being a Scary Black Woman

what you got?

[dollydew]

268. One of my relatives was lynched

I don't have to work on any issues.

[swishyfeet]

284. The more radical than farrakhan line was EXACTLY what I heard

from Newt Gingrich two days ago! Congratufuckulations for getting your talking points right!

Being a black woman doesn't get you off the hook for playing the Rev. Wright/Farrakhan card - which is the same shit that Rush Limbaugh will be using as well.

[gaspee]

271. Oh yeah

It's all about being black.

Fucking idiot.

Just like the Bushies --- you hate him because he's a christian, whine, wahhhhh - whine!

But keep bringing it back to race and calling people who don't support your guy racists -- that'll go over REALLY well.

[dollydew]

274. I'm a Christian and I believe in Jesus Christ

next.

[dollydew]

277. As for the gay issue

my son is gay and I adore him and will defend him to my last breath.
Next.

[masshole]

275. this is a joke, right?

"Keith Olbermann does not speak to the people anymore. He speaks to those in power."
:rofl:

"On his April 2, 2008 program, Keith Olbermann said incredulously of the Clinton campaign “Ed Rendell is saying FOX News gave them the best coverage, the most balanced coverage of the entire primary”.
What is the matter, Keith? You thought they were going to give that prize to you? Words can hurt, you know. When a formerly respected progressive TV anchor decides that one Democratic candidate needs to get out of the race---scratch that----the wrestling match, things can get pretty ugly."

Are you serious? You think KO's comment was out of jealousy that Rendell didn't praise MSNBC? Or do you actually agree that FAUX has been the most "balanced" in their coverage?

[dollydew]

285. I don't find

human rights a joke. I don't like slum lords. That's just me.
People in Haiti are eating dirt. Thanks to the War Criminal in the White house. Nancy Pelosi may say Impeachment is off of the table. In our veal to celebrate our first Women Speaker of the House we forgot that Nancy Pelosi, with her refusal to Impeach Bush, also wants Hillary to drop out. She also intends to vote to give Bush more War funding. Just saying.

[Perry Logan]

278. It's obvious to any normal person: the charges against Hillary are all bullshit.

[dollydew]

290. Thank you Perry

I've been watching your videos for quite some time.

[Technodaoist]

291. Statements in Troll Mirror May Be More Unsupported Than They Appear

"It's obvious to any intelligent person: the claims made by Hillary are all bullshit"



See how easy it is?

Why, its almost like we are having a conversation! Keep up the good work.

[Arugula Latte]

368. The Nation “She is an unrepentant hawk, à la Joe Lieberman.”

That's The Nation, bastion of liberal, progressive thinking. Hillary has not apologized for enabling Bush to obliterate tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. She's also in favor of murdering innocent Iranians if she feels like it.

The charge that she's a Liebermanesque hawk is NOT bullshit.

[Sundoggy]

418. "normal person"?

Define, please.

[Lucinda]

279. Yup. Irony in action.

[sandyj999]

280. Keith lost me about two months ago. He's too angry and sometimes seems to spit on himself. n/t

[Fedja]

281. You're delusional

This is the first thing that comes to mind when I think "Hillary" lately. Nothing like a good ole obliteration chat to get my blood flowing.

[dollydew]

289. Listen to entire

interview. They asked her if she would Nuke Iran "if" they "nuked" "Israel first". I heard it. Unless you think it's ok to nuke Israel.

[Fedja]

307. I did listen to it.

She got baited by the question and fell for it, hook line and sinker. If you listened to Obama's comment on the question, he offered a level-headed answer of how preventing any such ludicrous occurence is the priority and the situation one has to plan and prioritize for.

"If every country in the world attacks the US, what would you do?"

Answer A: "We can nuke them all to oblivion, we have more nukes than there are countries out there."
Answer B: "The question is misleading and idiotic."

You see the difference in the approach to foreign policy? You see the disconnect with reality involved in one of those two approaches? Or did you already buy into the FOX dogma that Iran is for some reason an enemy of the US, and a member of the meta-biblical "Axis of Evil"?

Seriously, her answer and her approach to the question proved how far up her arse her head is. It proved how happy she is to jump the gun (pun intended) and try to prove to the world she can be more butch than any man, that she's willing to push the red button at 3 a.m., and that she's learned NOTHING from the devolution of humanity powered by the Bush regime in the last 8 years.

[Jakes Progress]

423. If that's the first thing you think of

then Karl has been doing what they pay him for. Getting Democrats to think this way is exactly what the OP was about.

(Some phallic image you've got there)

[Fedja]

431. Well, it's representative.

It accurately depicts her would-be phallic campaign.

As for the boogey man, I'm not currently a resident of the US, and neither have access nor the inclination to follow right-wing propaganda. My sources of information are, for the most part, limited to interviews with the two candidates, the snipes (I went there), the Wrights, and their responses to these superficial and trivial issues. Rarely does a candidate have the opportunity (or perhaps the desire) to address actual issues of the future. This is where there is a fundamental difference between the two candidates.

Obama approaches controversy with a smile, with reasoned and well thought out words, and with an aura of inclusion. The man radiates patience and tolerance.

The last few videos of Hillary I remember seeing (and here I'm intentionally overlooking the likes of the pathetic gas station charade), I saw a wide-eyed warmonger. Obliteration and intervention was all over her agenda, she liked nothing more than to show that she would have a massive D... missiles and would not be shy to use them. She spoke of destruction and nuclear war with such zealotry, with such infantile passion, that it literally made me doubt her humanity.

Yes, humanity. A person with even a shred of human compassion, with just a tiny bit of empathy, a person with even the most vague sense of what the pain of war does to nations and regions, would not have responded in the way she did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of a female president. My household is effectively run by my better half, and I believe that the women in my life, the women in my culture on average have a vital advantage over men in terms of leadership. They have a much more profound sense of empathy, compassion, and pure reason under pressure. Where men such as myself are likely to succomb to testosterone and pride, even spurs of aggression to protect said pride, women take a level-headed approach and have a better sense of long term goals and how they are to achieve them. Where men would obliterate, women would negotiate. Where men would scream threats, women would write advice.

As ridiculous as this may sound, I think Obama is more of a woman than Hillary is. She has gone from the woman we knew to a man who puzzled us, and has culminated in a warmongering hatespitting bully.

When the people are angry and in despair, they look to the president for guidance. If she is the guidance that controls the might of the American empire in the years to come, woe be it to the world. Woe be it to all who are different and misunderstood, woe be it to targets of opportunity. The World knows this well, and is paying attention to the election. The World is hoping for an America they can speak with and partner with. The World is hoping to see an America that assumes its position as a leader among equals, as a piece of our collective grand puzzle.

The World is cheering for Obama, and for an America that we once knew and loved.

[McCamy Taylor]

433. "The last few videos of Hillary I remember seeing " Who selects the videos?

Why do we see what we see? Who defines "reality" in the corporate media age when the news is filtered through 1) one of the world's largest manufacturers of weapons/nuclear power plants 2) a right wing propagandist 3) a corporation that has been blackmailed by the Bush administration since 2001 because of its lack of compliance with federal media ownership laws 4) Mickey Mouse 5) a telecommunications conglomerate with its fingers in cable, the internet and maybe, one day soon, voting and 6) a billionaire Republican who is now dependent on the Bush FCC to keep his media empire together?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html

[Fedja]

435. Of course

The media has one goal, money. They get money from controversy.

I fully expect the media to provide the most dodgy clip loops on any candidate. Wright being a prime example, what has it been now, a month? Bosnia died down much faster, not because of the implications, but because it wasn't very TV-friendly. Not much video to loop there.

I absolutely trust the media to pull out the worst, most gruesome crap on any candidate. Still, do me a favor. Close your eyes and immagine Obama saying those obliteration and nuclear war statements. That's right, you can't. It's like trying to immagine Mr. T in a skirt, your mind just fails at piecing it together.

The reality remains, anyone who can say what she said is not a civilised person. Period. You can't pin this on the media, however much you try. There's no conspiracy here. She showed up for the prom in combat fatigues and no matter what angle you take the picture from, she looks like a dangerous and unhinged looney.

[Jakes Progress]

459. The very medium we are using

will be the next egg in their basket. From what I have read here and elsewhere, I have come to see my disgust for the Obama schtick and his supporters as a part of an orchestrated campaign to get me to hate him. I think the young and the young in mind that are his followers are less likely to reflect on their motives and their vulnerability to manipulation. It's just part of the nature of the idealists that they don't question themselves. If the RoveCo plan works and he is the candidate, I just hope that they will not be as willing victims of the campaign that will be unleashed on them to smear him. Their vulnerability lies in that they see him as above the fray, beyond political motives. All MSM has to do is begin showing his practical political decisions of the past and his posturing for position now and his minions will be disillusioned. We all knew Hillary was a politico; we relished her skills in that field. But Barack's supporters are about to be treated to the image of their superman pandering to the right as he scrambles for the middle ground. It was always thus in the past, but he has convinced them that he has no taint of the past about him. So he has been positioned by Rove and company to be the nominee, selected by the extreme left. Now he must remain the icon of the left to keep his rabid supporters in which case he will alienate the majority of the electorate or he will move to the center and alienate his troops. If he gets the nom, I will definitely vote for him, but I fear it will be a Dukakis and Kerry deja vu.

[Fearless]

286. It's not my responsibility to explain to you why he's seen the writing on the wall and you haven't.

SOUR GRAPES.

[Tarc]

288. Pretty much the reason I haven't watched KO in awhile

His man-crush on Obama was getting a bit nauseating.

[Jed Dilligan]

298. Beautiful River

I'm not sure what you wrote, because I only read the first few words, but the first third of the responses flow like a beautiful river down my screen. If your words somehow influenced the replies to come out in this shape, you are a conceptual art genius.

[totodeinhere]

301. The problem with your analysis is that what KO is saying about Clinton is true.

And of course if he were relentlessly bashing Obama that would be fine with you. The only reason you are pissed off at Olberman is because he has not fallen in lock step behind Clinton.

But as far as I'm concerned, KO is entitled to his opinion. There are plenty of other news commentary programs that give out alternative points of view. Why don't you let KO say what he wants to and if you don't like it turn on O'Reilly instead?

[papau]

345. facts are the same or worse re Obama - yet KO has only a kiss for O each night

[NorthCarolina]

304. Democrats dissing Keith Olbermann?

Seems we should thank our lucky stars that the largely controlled media even lets truth tellers like Olbermann and Rachel Maddow on cable news. I have to be honest, I am a bit suspect of any proclaimed "Democrat" that takes exception to the best Progressive talking heads out there, very suspect.

[DMorgan]

331. It's not THEIR fault... it's Hillary that made them hate Keith! Hillary is inconsistent with

logic and truth-telling, and supporting fellow liberals.

Just the way it is!

[MsMagnificent]

396. Shouldn't the query be

Democrats dissing another Democrat: Hillary Clinton?

I can understand if one is for Obama, but the viciousness emanating from Democrats towards Hillary and even Bill is simply astounding.
You like Obama? Fine. But talk about his platform, his positive things instead of dissing Hillary.
Make no mistake: there are "rat-fuckers" in our midst, as these Republicans so proudly call themselves.

I am deeply ashamed of most of what I've read here; many other sites, true, but especially here.

No matter who wins the primary, we all have to pull together and elect them; but this vituperation only serves to alienate fellow Democrats when we should be united now more than ever.


This has gone beyond ridiculous. Hillary has every right to stay in the race as long as she wants. Period. It's a political race for Goddess' sake, it's the way things are done ...this should be expected!

The ONLY ones who are dividing the party are the uber-fans, NOT Hillary Clinton NOR Barack Obama. Whomever's (sic?) choice doesn't win the primary, it is imperative for the disappointed fans to suck it up and support the Democratic winner; else you're allowing the 'Pukes to play you like a patsy.

Which they are doing, and no doubt they are reveling in it and about it.


If your especial candidate doesn't win, do you really think John W. McBush would be better?
Please!!


Grow up, be decent towards each other, practice good sportsmanship, and NEVER lose sight of the big picture.

[Andrea]

468. Thank you very much.

I hope people heed what you have said here.

[JoFerret]

497. He has lost all credibility

.

[helderheid]

305. .

[D23MIURG23]

355. It couldn't be that Clinton has lied and cheated...

regularly throughout this campaign season could it? Your post curiously is short on refutations.

Its OK though, you can start listening to this man instead:



I hear he is friendlier to her candidacy (and therefore not misogynist in any way right?).

[VotesForWomen]

357. i've never liked his style and his nasty attitude towards women, but he's gone of the deep end now.

[DMorgan]

393. Yeah, questioning the "inevitable" front runner, who was ready to

Anoint herself Queen Hillary by Super Tuesday ? That was the WORST THING he could have done for America..yeah... that's when all the praise of Hillary supporters who loved Keith awhen he called Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Gonzales, etc etc lying pieces of crap.. THAT was OKAY.. but to insult Queen Hillary, the woman who screws her fellow Democrats, has lied repeatedly to the American people about her war experiences in Bosnia, yeah THAT was TOO LOW!!!


OH Please!

[XtraProudDem]

359. It's very simple

Senator Clinton's campaign has been EMBARRASSING. Her staff has done a DREADFUL job. I'm so embarrassed for her on a daily basis that I cannot even look at her image anymore - it makes me sad.

I don't hate her. I promise. But she and her staff have messed this up VERY BADLY.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - OPEN YOUR EYES.

See the mess that her campaign has become. Keith Olbermann has not turned on you. He's calling it like he sees it.

Democrats should NEVER call other Democrats "elitist."

Democrats should never say the words "with me or against me."

Please, please, please open your eyes. I'm begging you.

Senator Clinton has lost. Don't blame Keith. He's trying to help you see it.

[DMorgan]

395. Brilliant post eom

[Erin Elizabeth]

370. ...

[svpadgham]

372. I'm sorry if I seem sexist...

but isn't it possible that HRC is fucking up all on her own, and people just don't like what she's saying or doing?

[DMorgan]

397. I think you're onto something here! Hillary, a woman who destroyed her own...

Credibility, without the help of Keith O.

[Freedom Train]

379. K&R!

KO has jumped the shark.

[russian33]

382. K&R

i haven't k&R in a while, well, lets face it, i haven't read much in a while, can't stomach it
but this is spot on, thanks!

[pattmarty]

383. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!

[DutchLiberal]

384. I didn't hear Hillary-supporters complain when the media painted the race as 'a done deal' for her.

Your way too long rant shows only one thing: a sore loser.

Hillary Clinton is lying and cheating and throwing good Democrats under the bus, and she will do anything to get the nomination... and you are mad at the media for calling her on it.

Nice way to divert attention.

[DMorgan]

400. I wonder if the Governor of New Mexico appreciates being thrown

under the bus and being called a Judas by the Hillary campaign.

Just wondering if Richardson is happy he spend so long working for Bill Clinton NOW!

[Radical Activist]

398. Making intelligent and accurate statemetns about Hillary doesn't make him elitist or like O'Reilly.

Some of us aren't fooled by Hillary playing the populist act before she goes back to her usual corporate establishment self. Nice use of a right wing meme thought.

[MissDeeds]

402. KO has really gone over the top with his vitriol

I am not a HRC supporter, but Olbermann's continual rants about Clinton and her campaign verge on obsessive. It's not unusual for the first half of his program be be all about what HRC has done wrong or what she has done lately to tick him off. Half the damn program! Bush is still in the WH, people are still dying in a war based on lies, and he goes on and on about Hillary. It's over the top.

[cui bono]

404. Perhaps you should direct your frustration at Clinton. If she would stop her BS

he would have nothing to complain about. As it is, she deserves it and brings it on herself.

[MissDeeds]

436. I am frustrated with Clinton

As I said in my post, I am not a Hillary supporter. I have huge concerns with her candidacy and campaign, but I do think KO obsesses. I think he would be more effective if he'd state his case, show clips to reinforce his position, and then move on to other issues of the day.

[cui bono]

439. On the flip side, he spent an entire first segment on Rev. Wright long after it should

have been put to rest.

Talking about what the media is talking about is still covering the issue!

[Ztarbod]

406. Problem is O'Reilly bashes Obama and acts like a Hillary surrogate

[NM Independent]

408. You. Have. Lost. Your. MIND.

:wtf: is wrong with you? Attacking the only person telling the truth on our side, and praising FOX?!?!

Get your head out of your ass and open your eyes to the absolute BETRAYAL that the Clinton machine is dishing out.

She's a fucking LIEberman that doesn't give a shit about you, or anyone else but herself.

The truth hurts, badly sometimes, but denial can't last forever.

Please, come to your senses. You're smarter than this.

[Sundoggy]

421. Josh Marshall nailed it

"No sharks left to jump".

[theFrankFactor]

424. An Observation From the Peanut Gallery

For what it's worth; I do a little http://YouTube.com/TheFrankFactor">YouTube commentary show and I find this thread fascinating. It's very disconcerting to hear people criticize someone who, until now, was so revered by the left, and in the most extreme way.

I get the same thing from republicans in my YouTube comments. I suppose it's only natural. It's just that, as one who never goes to FreeRepublic, to witness such hatred for KO is an odd sensation.

That's all.

Carry on.

[quickesst]

427. As KO......

cannot see the irony in becoming exactly what he has loathed, and Olielly was the whipping boy for that loathing, it is evident that many Obama supporters cannot see the irony in their own behavior, mirroring what all democrats once loathed. How ironic. Thanks.
quickesst

[DemVet]

482. Agreed. Well said.

[McCamy Taylor]

438. KO has become Hunter S. Thompsom from 1972 pissing all over Humphrey.

That is his anointed role in this game that Karl Rove, ex-CREEPster is playing, and which Joe Conason of Salon spotted all the way back in January of 2007.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/01/26/obama/

In "Ghost of Dirty Tricks Past" Conason calls the Moonie "Obama went to a Madrassa in Indonesia and Hillary made us print this story" a dirty GOP trick straight out of the 1972 Nixon handbook designed to smear the Democratic candidates and divide and Conquer the Demoratic Party.

As I wrote in a recent journal, the campaign by the RNC has been fabulously successful. By having the MSM anoint the two "minority" candidates as the front runners---candidates who would develop fierce loyal followings within the Democratic base and then by having RNC agitators begin planting stories that "Hillary the bitch" was calling "Obama unAmerican" (and getting the MSM to cover each of these false stories extensively)---Rove has been able to make Democrats think that Hillary is indeed a bitch and he has been able to make GE voters begin to suspect that Obama might actually be unAmerican.

Those who know about 1972, know that Hunter S. Thompson did not merely write about it. He wrote about it as it was happening. He called Humphrey, a staunch Democratic liberal and defender of civil rights---he worked hard to get civil rights bills through Congress---horrible names. He lied about him in the stories he wrote for the Rolling Stone. He did his best to help McGovern win the nomination by making Humphrey out to be some sort of hawk-corporatist-elite-monster.

This is exactly what KO is doing to Clinton. Exactly. I keep telling people to read Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 Then, for people who are younger than me (I am 49) and who are therefore too young to remember the civil rights struggle, go ask your parents what Humphrey did for Black folks and what African-Americans did in 1972 after CREEP got through with the Democratic Party. And what the working class that supported Humphrey did.

Since KO is the same age that I am, he should not have to ask anyone. He lived through it just like I did. He remembers 1968 and he remembers 1972 and he remembers the Watergate hearings. He remembers the left vilifying poor old loyal Hubert Humphrey as if he was the same as Goldwater. It was pathetic. Humphrey was a Democrats Democrat. He always was. He never let the party down. In 1972 he refused to be McGovern's VP, but who can fault him after the stuff Thompson wrote about him?

Pat Buchanan, the mastermind behind CREEP was one of Thompson's buddies. I sometimes wonder if he encouraged him to write the stuff he did about Muskie and Humphrey. Maybe Buchanan is encouraging KO to rant against Clinton.

When I see KO doing what he is doing, it makes me want to cry. He can not even pretend that he does not know better, because he lived through it. He was there when it happened the first time. He knows exactly what he is doing. Maybe he thinks that he can play Dr. Gonzo but this time he can outsmart Tricky Dick and get it right, even with a divided Democratic Party.

KO is so deluded. Solidarity is the Democrats' strength. The division he is creating among Democrats is evident in this thread.

KO may think that he is a patriot with good intentions, but intentions do not count if the results are harmful, and all I see in his wake is more division and more hostility and less unity.

[McCamy Taylor]

440. CNN is celebrating how GREAT Obama is. MSBNC is trash talking Clinton. I will watch CNN.

I changed from KO/Russert and their Clinton bashing to CNN. Both were discussing the same story. CNN even had mostly Republicans and Donna Brazile and crazy old Lou Dobbs but instead of Clinton bashing they were framing it as "Isn't that Obama great!"

Now that is the kind of news coverage that benefits the Democratic Party.

MSNBC sucks. Bashing Clinton does not help Obama. It just makes him look like a candidate who has a deal with MSNBC to bash Clinton. It divides and conquers Dems.

Note that CNN does not like McCain because he has screwed with their cable business and they probably plan to help the Democratic nominee (along with ABC which also dislikes McCain for the same reason).

MSNBC is not the friend of the Democratic Party when it tears down the Clintons.

[DMorgan]

490. "MSNBC is not the friend of the Democratic Party when it tears down the Clintons."???.....

RIGHT!

The Clinton's ARE the entire Democratic Party, and anyone who speaks truthfully about them cannot, by definition, be claimed as a "friend of the Democratic Party.
:sarcasm:

MORE TRUE is this: The Clinton's are NO LONGER REAL Democrats, but arrogant rule-breakers, liars, and they care only for themselves, just like the Bush family.

[fascisthunter]

441. goofey

[ElsewheresDaughter]

446. Keith O'Lbamarmen is an ass clown

[sasquatch]

475. *sigh*

:eyes:

[Horse with no Name]

457. Exactly.

And NEITHER one are good for the country.

[Medusa]

485. I figured this out a long time ago about him.

He decided that the best way to compete with O'Reilly was to convert himself into the liberal version of O'Reilly. The problem with that is that he abandoned all journalistic ethics when he did and he still insists he's a news anchor and he's running a news program but that's not try anymore. I love Obama, he's my guy but I have a real problem with anyone who presents themselves as a journalist and who is openly advocating for a candidate, even when it's my candidate he's advocating for. I think he made a strategic decision to support Obama because he thought it would help boost his viewership. I sometimes look at him and think about what his show used to be like and ask myself does he really believe what he's saying or is it just a really cynical attempt to gain viewers? It's worked for him. He's gottten fame, acclaim, book deals, appearing on the late night talk shows, lots of magazine interviews, etc. But he sold out his journalist soul to get it. Was it worth it? I don't know and that's for him to answer but I know I no longer respect him and I really can't stand to watch him any longer. I don't like O'Reilly, I don't like Dobbs, I don't like Hannity--and add Keith to that list. There's not much difference between him and them except he's coming from our side. That would be great if he'd own up to being a commentator but he won't and that to me is exceptionally intellectually dishonest.

[Dollface]

488. You just made Sean Hannity's day. Now I have to go wash my hands from typing his name.