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Clinton Supporters Not Pleased With KO... yet again.

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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:34 PM
Original message
Clinton Supporters Not Pleased With KO... yet again.
As expected, of course. I find this, of course, a sign of a need for the echo-chamber being espoused by our Clinton-supporting brethren. There's just one problem that I find with that.

I have a feeling that if KO came out against Obama, Clinton supporters would somehow be bereft of outrage, choosing instead to be resolutely and conspicuously silent. So maybe we should save the lumber for something more useful than an echo chamber?

It raises the question as to what is it about KO having an opinion and expressing it, in his words, and in his way, that infuriates them so? And why the raspberries?

Seems to me that everyone is making a choice here. I've made mine. KO's made his. Now, granted, I don't have the reach that KO does to millions of viewers, but I think his choice and his points are well made.

The past 8 years of electoral politics have been abysmal. We've seen lines crossed that we'd never thought we'd see crossed. Swift Boatings, so much a part of the campaign that saw Kerry succumb, are so... so... so... fucking accepted... and not only that, but so fucking easily accepted... as a legitimate method of campaigning that we actually kept the NAME for a convenient shorthand.

As far as either Clinton's or Obama's positions are concerned, neither are particularly progressive, but then again, I doubt we'd see a progressive candidate until this country starts swinging back that ol' pendulum from the incessantly rightward swing of the past 8 years.

The difference between them is one of character and comportment. Clinton has employed tactics that are so Rove-inspired that if you take still shots of her speeches and look in the background you half expect Karl to be ducking, balding pate and all, behind someone in the far back. You take the whole "Who do you want answering the phone at 3AM?" ad. This is hatchet-job tactics all the way. "Let's just forget about the issues and put out an ad that scares easily led people." And her negativity... oh, my god, her negativity. In this campaign, the only time I've ever heard her talk about what qualifies HER for the highest office in the land rather than how completely horrifying a choice her opponents would be is in the initial campaign when she was supposedly a fait accomplit.

This campaign isn't really about a comparison of issues, because anyone with any sense knows that there is no training program for President. There's no Presidency for Dummies book at the local Barnes and Nobles. It isn't what the talking heads say in their "analyses", nor is it the spin they thrust upon the whole electoral process. No matter who is President, they almost invariably must moderate their views, accept a few deals, and capitulate to the politics of the matter, all of which will be taken by the faithful as a dark and sinister betrayal. This campaign is predicated on the one thing that can reasonably guide the decision making of the person who is elected to that office and finally sits down at the Oval Office desk.

Attitude.

Hillary Clinton has the wrong attitude and that's why she is losing. She doesn't get the fact that people don't want business as usual politics. And she has paid. She's failed to grasp that the old memes don't work after 8 years of their foolishness, and those memes are doubly infuriating when compared against HER OWN EXPERIENCE being the target of them. And she has paid. She doesn't grasp that what the American people want aren't tired battles between people calling themselves 'conservative' and people calling themselves 'liberal', but rather a real return to a forward-thinking governmental framework in which to effectively govern their own lives. And she has paid. She has spoken, not with the voice of the people as equals, but rather with a very parental tone and the message that was received was that, again, for 4 more years, we will have to suffer the foolish brashness of a smug authoritarian rather than a true leader of people. And she has paid.

Even with the "success" of her attack ads, she cannot close the gap. The math doesn't support her, but more importantly, those who have suffered the most from these past eight years, whether that suffering be economic, social, or even philosophical, do not support her. They see in her the potential for the same pitiful attitude that has occupied our highest offices for FAR TOO LONG. And whether that potential is realized or is merely part of an election tactic, quickly dropped off at the door of the White House on her first day, is immaterial to quite a non-trivial group of people. We just don't want to take that chance.

Is she the sort to deny the will of the people? Is she the sort who will not back off of her positions if the people of this country speak up to the contrary? Is she the sort who, once in that office, will not be beholden to the people whose votes put her there? Some of us look into her track record, the speeches, both in content and tone, and see shadows of just that sort of irritating combination of abject stupidity and irritant obstinacy masquerading as forthrightness that we've all come to know and loathe all too well.

There is nothing in Obama's attitude that makes me doubt his commitment, not to the office, but to the people.

There is nothing in Obama's attitude that tells me that large swaths of this country's people are going to be ignored because they don't make enough money to matter to your average career politician.

There is nothing in Obama's attitude that makes me believe that once he gets into the Oval Office that he's going to be wringing his hands in glee as he does his best impression of Snidely Whiplash, all whilst red-lining every item on his Campaign Promise To-Do List.

There is nothing in Obama's attitude that tells me that what he may not know about being President he won't pick up easily.

There is nothing in Obama's attitude that smacks of some kind of effete elitism (and I'm not sure it would matter if there was some, because I'm quite honestly sick of the faux 'average Joe' schtick that we've been subsidizing these last 8 years).

Yet, this is PRECISELY what Clinton and her supporters have TRIED and ostensibly FAILED to bang through my noggin once I made my decision to support Obama. What does this mean?

Well, put simply, it means either that they are perceiving her differently than me, which is fine... or it means they mean to smear Mr. Obama hoping someone will be stupid enough not to believe what they see with their own eyes and can piece together with their own mind, which isn't. We are supposed to be on roughly the same side after all, it would be very disturbing indeed to know that we'll eat our own to get what we want.
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Waya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Somehow I think KO can live with that....................
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well it's not my fault that he's seen the writing on the wall before them
Sour grapes. That's all I have to say.
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la la Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not as 'pleased' with KO
as I was previously, and I personally don't think it has anything to do with his seemingly constant dissing of Clinton, although I am fairly sick of the Clinton-bashing of late- I'm sick of the bashing period---doesn't get anyone anywhere other than an upset stomach!

I- again, personally- am tired of him and Countdown because of his perceived attitude. I somewhat liked it when he was consistently on bush's back---but did it do any good? Nah, don't think so- it made most of his viewers feel better, but what else did it do to bush? I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's just getting old---all these snappy responses, cutting comments, etc---it's just getting old--I think his ego has gotten in his way and he's becoming just like his arch-enemy-----------billo.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yes... he do "any good."
Look at Bush's approval numbers. They correspond with KO's increasing viewership and Orally's decreasing viewership (although, to be fair, Orally's are declining because the vast majority of his audience is dying off and young people think he's a dick).
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la la Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. KO
has been great, but if anyone believes the lower disapproval numbers is because of KO's diatribes against the bush---they might be wrong--it is a chink in the armor, but anyone who knows and understands what the bush is doing- they have also been a great factor in his disapproval ratings, as well. It DOES take a village! heh heh

o'liely- well the less said about him- the better!
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. KO's dedication to what he believes to be the truth...
...is his trademark, as is his eloquence and attitude while speaking it.

Whether you agree or not, it isn't like he's been particularly hard on Hillary with the sort of things that she's said and done in this campaign. Now Bush's approval ratings ARE probably affected by his commentary, because before him, who was harshing Bush in the MSM? I can't think of anyone offhand. Once KO started putting forward knowledge of his exploits, people who don't look to the internet for their information as a rule started looking on the internet to know more.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I agree 100%
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bigscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. while everyone knows Clinton wont get the nomination
Why does KO feel the need to lead off his program almost every night with another diatribe against her? I would think that if he just dropped it she would be off the radar screen and go away that much quicker.

I enjoyed Countdown more when he focused on real issues and not the BS surrounding the Dem primaries (you remember, like Iraq, Habeus Corpus, VA disaster, Dana perino et al, having Jonathan Turley on a regular basis explaining how * has decimated the Constitution)

There are just so many more important things to focus on besides this failed run by Clinton for the nomination

Peace
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It bothered me at first ...
I have always supported Hillary, and it bothered me at first when KO started taking off on her ...

But, I will be honest, he would be a hypocrite to NOT take off on her like he has ...

He was the guy who broke the wall of silence in the MSM and made it OK for truth to shout out against the R propoganda machine ... And, in the three year since he started breaking down that wall, he has consistently and fervorantly went after them ...

Well, sorry, but Hill has jumped that shark, too ...

She may be a Dem, she may have been a good guy before, but her campaign in the last three months has been a repubican campaign ...

It hurts to see it, but KO is just calling them like he sees them ...
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Agreed.
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yes....
I keep wanting to ask Hillary supporters what response they *would* find acceptable for a newscaster/commentator in his position? I mean if one seriously and sincerely believes that she is making all of these errors in judgment, exhibiting these character flaws... what should he do? Should he just sit back and do the happy talk, giving equal favorable coverage to a candidate that he feels is dead wrong? I don't think so...

Now I understand that Hillary supporters themselves don't see things this way. They seem to feel she has done no wrong.. or at least no more wrong than her opponent. I got that. BUT KO does feel she is wrong... what do you expect him to do?

What do you expect all of us who feel this way to do?
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. But does SHE know it?
I get the impression that she thinks that somehow she is going to pull this out and that we'll all magically forget all of the slimy things she has done and fall into a happy little parade behind her. The whole thing is infuriating... part of me wants to give her a shake and a slap across the face and say, "Girl, SNAP OUT OF IT!" for her own good as well as the good of the party. I kind of get the sense that that is what KO is trying to do... wake her up... bring her back to reality... before she ruins herself.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. So many excellent points. K&R n/t
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. KO is the smartest, most honest of all the cable news journalists.
Dint hate him for his intelligence
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's not about Hillary. They're just O'Reilly fans
They like them a good dose of the factor.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. A dose of the factor?
Is that anything like a dose of the clap?
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