Hillary moves goalposts again -- now says Obama needs 2,208 delegates

[nichomachus]

rather than the 2,025 set by party rules.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/NATION/525934081/1002

DURHAM, N.C. — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign yesterday tried to redefine the delegate math for securing the Democratic presidential nomination, signaling its willingness to wage a divisive battle with front-runner Sen. Barack Obama through the summer.

Mr. Obama, meanwhile, questioned Mrs. Clinton's trustworthiness heading into today's primaries in Indiana and North Carolina.

Top Clinton aides said the nominee must win based on a tally that includes delegates from Florida and Michigan, which held January primaries that were disqualified by party rules. The campaign's "Delegate Hub" Web site identifies 2,208 as the total delegates needed to be nominated, or 183 more than the threshold of 2,025 set by the Democratic National Committee's rules.

"That's what we believe is the standard for deciding this — who has the majority of the total delegates including Michigan and Florida to decide the nomination," said Clinton strategist Geoff Garin.

She just made fools out of all the Hillary supporters who have been shouting that Obama will win when he gets 2,025?

[CakeGrrl]

1. Someone please kick this crew to the curb, they're around the bend.

n/t

[Why Syzygy]

8. She doesn't even pretend to follow the rules.

She attempts to thwart them at every turn. Totally reminds me of a spoiled rotten BRAT who delights in rebellion. Somebody put her on time out.

[PoliticalAmazon]

30. The DNC needs to give her a reality check. I won't belong to a party that allows this shit to occur

[Arugula Latte]

48. Veruca Clinton needs to be sent down the "bad egg" shoot.

[still_one]

2. and she changes her accent depeneding who her audience is /nt

[FlaGranny]

6. What? You don't like her

Bush imitations? :-)

[still_one]

59. Obviously I was being scarcastic, but no I don't like her /nt

[FlaGranny]

62. She's trying to outdo Bush with that

swaggering talk.

[olkaz]

3. The Goalposts Are in a Truckbed, and the gas holiday is saving the driver a million dollars!

"She just made fools out of all the Hillary supporters who have been shouting that Obama will win when he gets 2,025?"

I wouldn't worry about that. They'll parrot anything the campaign says. Call them "automatic" delegates? You got it!

[newmajority]

21. So that's why she had that truck the other day?

I knew there had to be a logical (or at least a Hillogical) reason for it.

[olkaz]

22. Exactly. I've been hoping a political cartoonist would take this image up.

I don't know, I think it would work.

[PoliticalAmazon]

31. I thought it was her get-away car for when her supporters realize she's made fools of them. n/t

[housewolf]

4. She's trying to add in FL & MI

That's the total needed for a majority if FL & MI delegates were included

[Triana]

5. someone needs to tell Ms. SELF-IMPORTANT that the DNC makes the rules - NOT

her.

[ForeignSpectator]

63. and remind her that she agreed to them at the start... n/t

[Dbdmjs1022]

7. Too bad her and her cronies are the only ones who think this is the case! LOL

[rodeodance]

9. you forgot the

voters of MI and FL.

a

[BattyDem]

10. You better read the DNC handbook again, Hillary.

:eyes:

[virtualobserver]

11. at some point you can't move the goal posts unless you also move the goal line

[nichomachus]

15. Right now, the goalposts are in the parking lot somewhere

[bowens43]

12. the woman is despicable She has no integrity.

How anyone could possibly support her, even over McCain is beyond me.

[maddiejoan]

14. GoMama!

[Brundle_Fly]

13. its actually 4,654

he needs.

[NJmaverick]

16. "just made fools" I think she started that when she started up with the "elitists' BS

[Voice for Peace]

17. but will she go to the supreme court for her nomination?

[cascadiance]

18. In other words, if he doesn't, she's going to go after FL and MI

That's what those code words mean... She's going to go nuclear unless even that doesn't help her...

Hopefully a lot of the super delegates will see this and note that if they can get enough of them committed to help him hit this number, all of the whining and games that Hillary's camp are playing will be useless and over with. I think that would help a lot of these super delegates get reelected too. If it is recognized that they in effect helped save the party by gathering around Obama instead of allowing a "hostile" antidemocratic effort take it over.

Hey Microsoft finally saw the writing on the wall trying to take over Yahoo this week. Time for Hillary's camp to do the same...

[Terran]

19. "That's what we believe is the standard for deciding this..."

They must also believe that pigs will fly out of HRC's arse.

[SwampG8r]

64. i bet they would

i mean
i myself believe HRc flew out of a pigs arse

[Terran]

71. yikes

Good thing there was nothing in my mouth when I read that, cause it would have ended up on my keyboard. :rofl:

[JuniperLea]

20. Is this winning support for your candidate?

If so, at what cost?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5841161

[nichomachus]

24. So, reporting the news is "taking the low road?"

That's a new one. Well, not really. The freepers have been using it for eight years now.

Besides, I don't have a candidate -- so I'm not looking for support for anyone -- just watching the show.

[JuniperLea]

26. No, it isn't... but this is most certainly very, very low...

"She just made fools out of all the Hillary supporters who have been shouting that Obama will win when he gets 2,025?"


We will all need Hillary's supporters some day.

[nichomachus]

28. Sorry, it's simply stating a fact

There have been thousands of posts saying nothing more than "Does he have 2,025 yet?" or "He will will when he has 2,025," as if it was some magic number, which of course it was.

Now, their magic number is 2,208, which makes all the other talking points look silly. She pulled a switcheroo on her own supporters. If I were a Hillary supported, I'd be pissed.

But they should realize that this is exactly why so many former Clinton associates are turning against her. The Clintons did the same to them in the '90s. They told these associates one thing and the supporters went out on a limb to support them. Then, the Clintons changed their tune when it became politically expedient to do so, and the associates were left standing there with egg on their faces. It's a pattern with the Clintons -- get people to support you and then kick them in the nuts.

[jefferson_dem]

23. As if I needed another reason to despise the ClintonInc cabal...

Can we be done with the sleazy lot of them...YET?

[paulk]

32. why is wanting the Democratic voters of MI and FL

to have a say in this nomination "sleazy"?


We're talking, what - 2.7 million people? Wouldn't you rather have Obama win this without those two states hanging over his head, threatening his legitimacy?

Hillary won those states. I keep hearing all these arguments about the will of the people needing to be heard concerning the superdelegates overturning the pledged delegates. How can you make that argument and then take 2.7 million voters off the table? Doesn't their will count?

[olkaz]

37. Dear God, let this all stop.

Hillary signed a pledge that Michigan wouldn't count. Period. Go back in time and make her not sign it if you want Michigan to count.

As for Florida, there's going to be some sort of arrangement, but it will be after all of the contests are over.

And if you **really** want to help Michigan and Florida, keep them from doing this again.

[paulk]

41. she signed a pledge not to campaign in the state

she never pledged that MI wouldn't count.

[stillcool]

43. I thought there was over 4 million registered Democrats...

in Florida?

Posted: August 27, 2007, 6:05 PM ET
DNC Moves to Stop Primary Frontloading
The Democratic National Committee moved over the weekend to penalize Florida for moving up its primary date to Jan. 29 -- a violation of DNC rules that prohibit states from holding nominating polls before Feb. 5. The committee said the Sunshine State would be stripped of its delegation at the party's National Convention in 2008 if the state does not reschedule its primary in the next 30 days.

As the nation's fourth-most-populous state, Florida has 210 delegates and has played a major role in recent presidential elections. Florida's decision to advance its primary follows the increasing trend of states pushing up their contests in order to gain relevance in the election.
"Rules are rules. California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos," said Garry Shays, a DNC member from California. California -- with its 441 delegates -- moved its primary to Feb. 5, along with more than a dozen other states.
-----------------------------------------

The DNC gave Florida the option of holding a Jan. 29 contest but with nonbinding results, and the delegates would be awarded at a later official date.

Florida Democratic Committee Chairwoman Karen Thurman said this option would be expensive -- as much as $8 million -- and potentially undoable. Another option would be to challenge the ruling in court.

"We do represent, standing here, a lot of Democrats in the state of Florida -- over 4 million," Thurman said, according to the New York Times. "This is emotional for Florida. And it should be."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec07/florida_08-27.html

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.
Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the
Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar...

Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

[SwampG8r]

65. the only voters here

who think that the florida primary vote should be counted before its settled are all hillary supporters
all 50 of them(thats about what she has left here for support after her shenanigans)

all of us over here in the obama camp agreed to follow the rules
and we still are

[2rth2pwr]

25. If she is able to move the goalposts successfully what's the problem?

You ever been involved in negotiation?

How about negotiations with hostile regimes?

[SwampG8r]

66. the DNC is a hostile regime?

if she really believes that then she needs to change parties completely

[doublethink]

27. LOL ...... too funny ......

So as Obama gets closer to 'Closing the Deal' (a favorite Hillary supporter meme used against Obama) .... at 2,025 Game-Set-Match, The Hillary camp pulls this one out of their ass. This is getting beyond hysterical. :rofl:

[Kaylee]

29. Whoever gets 2 out of 3 wins.....

Barack wins.
Hillary: Okay, 3 out of 5.
Barack wins.
Hillary: No fair, 5 out of 7.
Barack wins again.
Hillary: 7 out of 9????

[2rth2pwr]

33. If the rules are changed successfully, why not?

[Leftist Agitator]

46. "If the rules are changed successfully, why not?"

Because it's dishonest, that's why.

Do you have NO ethics or morals?

No wonder you support a fucking liar like Her Royal Clintonness... for shame.

:eyes:

[Justitia]

50. Ya know what? Don't even bother. Just stand back & marvel. -eom

[Leftist Agitator]

57. I'm giving it one more try, and then I give up.

There's no arguing with stupid, after all.

[2rth2pwr]

53. If the rules support rule changes and the process is followed, why are you crying foul?

[Leftist Agitator]

56. BECAUSE IT'S DISHONEST!!!!!

The rules said that Michigan and Florida wouldn't count.

Obama AND John Edwards followed them, and removed their names from the ballot.

Hillary doesn't get to change the rules just because she's losing.

If you're OK with lying, cheating, and stealing elections, then I'm guessing you supported this person's campaign too:

[2rth2pwr]

58. If the rules include provisions for change those are the rules. Don't you get it?

[Leftist Agitator]

61. I'm done with you.

You are the first person that I'm ignoring. Congratulations!

Out of all the obnoxious Hillarites, you are by far the worst, and that's no small feat.

I doubt you'll last more than a few hours after your Queen drops out; you'll be joining the ranks of Mags, jackson_dem, Proud2bAmurikan, Herman Munster, and j_lake, I'm sure.

[2rth2pwr]

69. Just a second! ...wait, ..hang on..

Made you look.

[SwampG8r]

68. the rules dont include

retroactive changes

[Cali_Democrat]

34. This thing is going all the way to the convention

It's going to be a long summer of endless attacks on Obama by the GOP, McCain, Hillary and the media.


This is going to be along summer and it's going to suck.

[Justitia]

51. Yeah Cali, who knew THIS year would end up like this, huh? -eom

[Vinca]

35. Who'll chip in to get the prescriptions refilled over at the Clinton camp?

These people need to get a grip. I've got an idea. Obama needs to make a new rule that anyone with the last name beginning with "C" is automatically ineligible to run. Or . . . only people with natural hair color can run. Or . . . only people who don't have former presidents as spouses can run. Jeez, Louise, they're driving me nuts.

[AZBlue]

36. Please, someone get this woman some mental help!

Today!!

[stillcool]

38. It never ends...

What is wrong with her? Reminds me of when I was a whipper-snapper playing baseball. When I'd get to the third strike, I'd yell.."doesn't count, doesn't count!" "Do-over, do-over. I grew out of it when I was ten.

[FlyingSquirrel]

39. If Obama gets 2,081 of the CURRENT delegates he'd have 2,208 with MI/FL.

So this is another little math game of confusion they'd like to play with the American Public who can't actually understand the math.

See, if Obama has 2,081 then he gets 67 from FL and 55 from MI -- giving him the Uncommitted votes (the only thing that could benefit Hillary but seem REMOTELY fair to the rest of us).

That's another 122, so 2,203. Then there are another 5 superdelegates from MI/FL who have endorsed Obama making it 2,208.

The End.

[WeDidIt]

52. You're still not getting it, he'd need 2136 of the current

This is because Clinton wants them seated AS-IS.

That means no 55 delegates for Obama from Michigan. Those delegates are uncommitted, even though she quietly had surrogates palced into those uncommitted slots.

[FlyingSquirrel]

60. Oh, I get it all right. But NOBODY is gonna stand for that.

I mean NOBODY. The uproar that would occur if she won because of a Soviet-style win in MI would be heard 'round the world. This will not happen. The DNC will NOT allow it no matter what. So the only way for her to count MI as-is would be to give Obama the Uncommitted vote.

Regardless of her efforts to take those Uncommitted votes in MI, even if it were allowed, there is no way she could take them all. Even if she took 28 of the 55, that would still be only 2,109 that he'd need.

He could achieve that with 64.6% of the remaining Supers. And since that doesn't even include the MI/FL supers that currently are still undeclared, you'd have to assume that Obama will get some of them as well.

[gkhouston]

40. Is he going to have to get Republican delegates next? n/t

[Justitia]

54. OMG, I hadn't thought of that, but the Clinton campaign probably has! -eom

[Coexist]

42. ....

:rofl:

[npincus]

44. who the HELL does she think she is?

The Unitary Executive Candidate? Jeez, she's truly mrophed into that scumbag!

[NewHampshireDem]

45. More Clintonball!

[habitual]

47. well, i fully expect that we will be hearing that this is perfectly

reasonable and totally obvious. We will hear that if we don't accept what hillary is doing then we are disenfranchising voters.

You see, Hillary said it and to a lot of people that makes it so:



they follow everything she says no matter how desperate it makes them look.

[TexasObserver]

49. It's not going to be OVER until Security has to remove her from the convention hall.

You can imagine it, can't you? Hillary, kicking and screaming, as four security guards drag her off the stage and put her in the back of a padded paddy wagon.

[TexasObserver]

55. The good news? She'll be ready to run a "moving the goal posts" business.

but, but, but ... He needs to win 2/3, yeah that's the ticket, 2/3!!

[Forkboy]

67. Those goalposts have traveled more than the Olympic torch.

[Justitia]

72. ROFL!

[tekisui]

70. !!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :spray: :spray: :spray:

They're delusional!!!

[followthemoney]

73. duplicate

[followthemoney]

74. Baghdad Bob Redux nt

[seabeyond]

75. dlc doesnt have to follow dnc rules. fl & mi show that. AND dnc/dean/obama get the blame

in hillary's world

[stratomagi]

76. I just heard according to the Hillary camp that Obama would need to win Klandathu in order to be

the nominee. And we all know what campaigning there would be like.