Hillary has fought very hard and effectively with her back against the wall

[denem]

Why didn't she fight like this when the American people's back was against the wall?

Elected to the Senate in 2000 she was a Democratic Icon. After 9/11 she fought for the people of New York - Yes she did.

Yes, she made the wrong call on the IWR, and she does find it difficult to admit mistakes.

But there have been so many other outrages over the Bush years; So many times when she could have called a major press conference, and hit the chatter shows, employing her talents to devastating effect.

So many times she could drawn the line and said this is absolutely unacceptable.

Where was the fight? Where was her strength?

We needed a kitchen sink thrown against the Administration.

It's an "experience" we sorely missed.

(Edited)

[JuniperLea]

1. How is this helpful for Democrats

This is divisive. We can't win the GE if we continue in this mode.

[Lerkfish]

4. you're right, this has only become divisive TODAY.

:sarcasm:

[JuniperLea]

11. No, not just today

But today a lot of DUers are fed up with the negativity... sarcasm included.

[Lerkfish]

13. its probably because the ignore function is not working

so I'm forced to look at all the clinton supporter negativity that I normally blissfully avoid.

[JuniperLea]

23. No, it's been the same for months

"Blissfully" avoiding those who do not agree with you is hardly a progressive stance.

We need to rally behind the party, and let the chips fall where they may with the candidates.

[Lerkfish]

I don't really need you to pass judgement on whom I do and don't listen to.

If someone has nothing to offer in way of discourse, I am not obligated to stand there and listen to them.
If you object to the ignore feature, take it up with the site owner.

[JuniperLea]

32. I'm not telling you who to listen to

I'm asking you to respond in an adult and intelligent manner. Smearing "the other" candidate does your candidate no good.

[Lerkfish]

36. what does smearing BOTH candidates resolves?

as I've seen you pretend to do.

[JuniperLea]

Yes, I'm ashamed to say, you probably have seen that from me

I'm on the high road in support of my party. My party is in jeopardy, and I don't give a flying rat's ass who gets into the White House... as long as it's a Democrat. And it won't be if we remain devided. This division is precisely what the GOP wants. They are laughing at us.

[DMorgan]

5. All bow down in adoration to the American Queen! And make sure you kick that uppity ...

upstart Obama to the curb, as you bow to the Queen.

[JuniperLea]

12. That's not it at all

No one need kick another to support whom they choose. That's a myth, and furthering myths is the GOP's job, not ours.

[dogday]

29. Divisive Posts do nothing to further the cause of the Democrats

I will support either Candidate and be happy to see a Democrat in the White House.. It is that simple...

[Bake]

67. Funny how it's only Obama supporters who use the word "uppity."

I've not seen it a single time from a Clinton supporter.

Bake

[DJ13]

6. The OP'er has a point

Hillary only fights for her own self interests.

She's had many chances to really BE that "voice of the people" she's now claiming to be, but there wasnt anything in it for her before now.

[JuniperLea]

18. Regardless of either candidates strengths or weaknesses

We need to unite behind the party now, or we'll have four more years hosted by McCain. If it's too close, the GOP will steal the election again.

[DJ13]

21. If you feel that way you need to get behind the delegate leader

Insisting the nomination fight should continue is the wrong way to bring about the unity you want.

[JuniperLea]

24. That is a myth

You don't have to get behind any one candidate to fully support the party.

[DJ13]

28. So your call for unity is actually an empty call to get in line like Republicans?

We need a SINGLE candidate to unite behind if you are serious about unity.

[JuniperLea]

31. That will happen in its own time and cannot be forced

I'm not saying you shouldn't support your candidate of choice, I'm just saying the intelligent way to do that is to do it without doing harm to the party. Blathering on and being mean to fellow DUers is not the way to impress people that your candidate is the one to go with.

[dogday]

33. Yes we need to unite like the Republicans do, how do you expect to win

if the party is not united? And we will have one candidate at that point.. The end game is to get that candidate to the WH.. It will be harder to unite everyone with all the insults and innuendos that are traded by both camps....

I too believe it is time to unite...

[LakeSamish706]

8. Thats one thing about you Clinton supporters.. you don't like truth...

There isn't going to be much of a GE with a Clinton as the candidate. The Repugs will tear her apart like dog meat with all the crap that she has stood for during the Bill Clinton Presidency and this contest.

[JuniperLea]

17. I'm not now, nor have I ever been a Clinton supporter in this election

What you otherwise are saying may well be true, disgusting tactic, but true. That is why we need to unite ourselves now.

[redqueen]

26. You do come off like one...

how many lectures about hate and divisiveness have you delivered to Clinton supporters today?

[Lerkfish]

34. I'm going to guess NONE.

but hey, clinton supporters are in the "bargaining" phase of grief right now.

[redqueen]

42. Bargaining = lashing out?

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

43. PM me a link to a nasty mouthed Clinton supporter

And I'll tell them the same...

[JuniperLea]

35. I'm not seeking out one supporter over the other

I'm letting the luck of the draw lead me... you've seen me smack down a Clinton supporter or two... and you know I'm not behind either candidate... we've had this discussion a few times.

[redqueen]

37. We've had it once.

The luck sure does seem to be favoring Clinton's supporters around here today. They ought to buy lottery tickets.

[JuniperLea]

40. I'll make you a deal

You find a nasty mouthed Hillary supporter and send me the link to the post... do it all day... fine with me. Everyone needs to understand how badly we are going to lose this if we don't knock this shit off.

[redqueen]

44. Pointless, but just for fun...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5840675&mesg_id=5840960

And yeah... I could definitely do this all day. There are even some who don't have a preferred candidate who seem to only prefer to shit on Obama's supporters. I honestly debated even coming back here after last week, I was so put off by the shit.

[JuniperLea]

49. This was actually an honest response to a pointed question

It wasn't hate for hate's sake. The OP is asking what Obama could say to sway a vote in his favor. Quite frankly, both candidates should be saying this... ok, I've found my post... check it out.

[redqueen]

52. Calling his supporters "assholes" isn't hate?

But this is?

"Why can't Hillary? Better yet,
why can't Hillary, the fomerly inevitable candidate, win? "


Jesus Christ Almighty, Juniperx... we're gonna have to just part ways now.

*sigh*

[JuniperLea]

57. You need to see my response to that...

Before you say something you may regret later.

[redqueen]

59. Again...

not the same kind of response the Obama supporters got from you.

Oh well. If it's the best you can do to be evenhanded, then I guess it'll have to do.

[JuniperLea]

63. Still learning...

I'll never be perfect, being human and all. I'm trying my best not to be nasty back at anyone... that would do the peace cause no good at all.

[redqueen]

47. And at the bottom of this very thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5844162&mesg_id=5844426

[dogday]

38. Accusations of being a Clinton supporter are commonplace here

as well.. If someone does not agree with you, they are automatically the enemy these days...

Go ahead and ask me who I support, because I have no candidate just for this reason..

These attacks and finger pointing posts are pointless and do nothing to further our ultimate goal of getting a DEMOCRAT in the White House....

[redqueen]

39. I have no reason to ask you...

I haven't noticed your seeming only to grace one type of poster with lecutres about hate and divisiveness.

And after what I went through last week, I'm BEYOND fucking sick and tired of all this "clinton supporters as victims" bullshit.

[dogday]

41. Redqueen, all I want is to get a Democrat in office. I hope that is

what you want to.. It is that simple...

You might not of asked me, but this is an opinion board and I am available to post my opinion.

I have always admired your posts, it is a shame they are so filled with meanness now....

[redqueen]

46. Sorry... didn't mean to come across

like I was implying that I didn't appreciate your comment.

It's just that I haven't noticed you seeming to prefer to only bash one group of supporters for being divisive or nasty... I'm not trying to attack Juniperx... because I have no beef with her... but as I said, I was fucking reamed last week by "Edwards supporters" (I put it in quotes, cause who knows... maybe they're just hateful, ugly trolls)... but for some reason today it just seems like it's only Obama's supporters being chastised like children.

*sigh*

I'm so so so so very fucking tired of this.

[dogday]

51. I too am tired of the vitriol between members...

It is a good thing to take a break every once in a while... I hope you will hang in there and help us get a Democrat in the White House... OH Happy Day!!!!!

I can taste it, can you? I am ready for the change and I will support whoever my party nominates...

Honestly, I don't see how Clinton can win it, but I understand her right to try.. I see Obama as our next nominee.... He will make a great President...

[Stop Cornyn]

15. Hillary and General Election and not ideas which are linked in any logical fashion

[JuniperLea]

20. Unless you actually look...

Then you will find we need to unite as a party.

[Skidmore]

70. Juniperx, I appreciate what you are trying to do but I will tell you this

in all honesty and I hope you sincerely hear me. The manner in which Hillary conducted her campaign was deeply offensive and hurtful to a large and loyal constituency of this party. Kiss and make up may never fully occur because she was willing to engage in the vilest of campaign tactics against the party base. People are not just funning y'all when they tell you that they are extremely angry about the words and deeds of Hillary and her surrogates.

[bunnies]

2. How did she fight for the people of NY?

Serious question. I hear that all those 9/11 workers STILL aren't getting their benefits... and they're dying.

[AZBlue]

9. She seems to have made a big show of fighting for them and then forgot them.

[bunnies]

27. Thats what I thought.

Shame on her. It doesnt get much more disgraceful than that.

[Genevieve]

14. She didn't. eom

[Lerkfish]

3. simple. NOW she's fighting for herself.

anyone can fight for themselves. Only people of character can fight altruistically.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Indeed. Her GOTV operation with bigots has been a marvel to watch.

[Life Long Dem]

10. Obama hasn't even laid a glove on her too. Imagine if he did. n/t

[denem]

16. My OP was a statement about playing it safe.

Not a commentary on her chances on the GE or anything else. She is showing what she is capable of (one way or another). We needed a kitchen sink thrown against Bush. She threw a wash rag, once in a while.

[bowens43]

19. hillary clinton will fight for hillary clinton

as we have seen the only thing she cares about is power. there is no one, including the American people that she wouldn't stab in the back to get what she wants. the woman is despicable. she is the poster child for everything that is wrong with politics in America.

[rodeodance]

22. ah, another thread so the Sheepie can come on and smear Hillaryl

[denem]

25. I don't see it as a smear. Hillary had the rocognition and gravitas to speak out.

She had the talent, the stage, and the opprtunity.

[redqueen]

30. Here's one for Clinton's supporters. And I'll be watching for you to be lectured on your hate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5844014

[JuniperLea]

55. That wasn't nice at all

If you were at all sincere... never mind. I'm disappointed, to say the least.

[redqueen]

56. You're not the only one. (nt)

[JuniperLea]

54. I understand your frustration, rodeodance

You are a strong voice here, and a very valuable member of DU. You know I've been as bad as anyone about bashing fellow DUers... I think the time has come to unite the party, so I've made a vow not to do this anymore. There are a lot of us popping up in threads all over DU... join us? We could use you.

[redqueen]

58. Do you not see the difference?

No accusation of hate... no instruction that that was divisiveness.

You extend understanding, compassion, and deliver a gently-worded message.

*sigh*

I give up.

[JuniperLea]

60. What you are saying is that I'm getting better at practicing what I'm preaching

I hope you see that anyway. Hate cannot be forced out with more hate... I'm still learning this too.

[redqueen]

61. Fair enough.

:(

[JuniperLea]

62. You are a dear person, redqueen

thanks for seeing the fair.

[redqueen]

64. I think the same of you.

Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you.

I just sense unfairness and I don't understand it.

Thanks for your tolerance.

[JuniperLea]

66. It takes a lot of effort

But we are worth it!

I understood where you were coming from. It's hard to see your pals falling out of agreement. I'm trying very hard to be fair, honestly, I am. Please tell me if you ever find me falling away from that! This being human is difficult:) I have to check myself all the time. There are a few people around here who have gotten on my last nerve. I hope to build my tolerance quite a bit before I encounter any of them again! One thing for sure, I won't give up my quest for unity. It's a dirty job...

[OzarkDem]

45. We've said this before

There's something weird going on with Dems in the Senate & House. Even with a majority, most are afraid to act, our leaders, Pelosi & Reid, don't lead. They follow the Republicans and corporations.

Now that the presidential primary is in the home stretch, we're beginning to see the cracks and divisions within Dems in Congress, with the leaders who resisted taking action and standing up to Bush now pushing for Obama and making threats to other Congressional Super D's who don't.

WTF? I can't help but believe a lot of our Dems in the House & Senate, including Clinton & Edwards, voted not according to their best judgement, but in response to pressure from some entities who hold a great deal of sway & influence. Who manage to quash opposition from and silence some of our most respected and outspoken Congressional leaders.

Over the last few years we've speculated here a lot about the influence of corporate money, threats, blackmailing, etc. without finding any answers.

Pelosi and Reid aren't backing Obama because of any purported stance against the war. And they can't be opposing Clinton because of her stance on Iraq because they pressured her to adopt theirs - to go with the GOP.

I don't have any answers, but this primary race and the divisions and internecine battles its causing among the Dems in Congress raises more questions than it answers.

[Lilith Velkor]

68. Wellstone set an example for the Senate

That example, along with some unfortunate random people at gas stations, was heeded by both houses.

I envy people who have the comfort of forgetting that.

[PurityOfEssence]

48. She's certainly been living up to her prime claim...

Much as her political career hasn't been the championing of the common person's cause in the face of the reationaries that she says it's been, her claim of being a tireless fighter is certainly borne out by this season. She's been tenacious by any definition, and I can't see how a reasonable person would be so clouded with dislike that this isn't at least somewhat impressive.

Hell, she took third in the first contest and she's still out there swinging.

[Dr Fate]

53. The problem is the type of "fighting" we have seen from her will not work in the general.

She will NOT attack McCain on race, religion, elitism or patriotism, and the media will NEVER in a million years let her lie or use Rovian techniques against their boy.

All she has really shown is that she can get the media to go along with her in attacking a DEM...

[OzarkDem]

69. Its the kind of leader we need in the WH

especially when going to bat for health care reform.

[Dr Fate]

71. And I just explained to you why "the fighter" wont make it to the WH.

There is a myth being built up that she is "Rocky Balboa"- but all she has shown us in this primary is that she can use right-wing talking points against the DEM. Big deal- a hundred talking heads have done that every day for the past 10 years.

RW talking points on race, relgion, patriotism, elitism will not be used against McCain, and the media will not allow her to use any Rovian guilt by association techniques, etc once she is up against their boy.

You failed to refute either of these points.

Plus, Hill already went up to bat on HC reform- and failed.

[OzarkDem]

72. She'll win against McCain for the same reasons

She doesn't cave or let herself become distracted by GOP style campaigning.

And Clinton was the first to tackle health care reform, at a time when it was impossible for anyone to pass. It laid the groundwork for today's health care reform movement.

[Dr Fate]

73. Wrong- she will never attack McCain on her central issues of race, religion, elitism & patriotism.

And the media will never, ever let her use the same guilt-by-association tactics against McCain that they allow her to use now.

If you want to see how she will win battles against McCain, just look for examples of her winning battles against Bush over the past 8 years.

We've already seen "the fighter" take on Healthcare- and she lost, even w/ a DEM congress.

[Dr Fate]

50. I'm still waiting for Clinton to attack McCain on race, religion, patriotism & elitism.

Once she does that, THEN we can call her "the fighter."

Attacking Obama with Rush Limbaugh's old time Liberal charicatures is "fighting" to some- but it certainly will not translate in the general election...

[wowimthere]

65. K&R What's worse is that people really haven't vetted her on her merits... Like people

who followed Bush... her supporters follow her on the basis of her husband's work in the 90s.