“Electability” is important to Undecided SD’s , 5/06/2008

[rodeodance]

http://www.thehill.com/leading-the-news/superdelegates-say-we-will-decide-2008-05-06.html

"Superdelegates say, we will decide"

By Alexander Bolton

Posted: 05/06/08 07:57 PM

Uncommitted Democratic superdelegates in Congress overwhelmingly say they won’t necessarily back the presidential candidate who wins the most primary delegates. Instead, electability will be very important in their decision…........


The congressional superdelegates’ independence is precisely what Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) is banking on as she trails by about 130 pledged delegates behind rival Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.).

It also means the Democratic Caucus is unswayed by its leader, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), who has warned that the party will suffer if superdelegates overturn the will of primary voters. Pelosi has said superdelegates should take into account whatever is important but not give the nomination to the candidate who lags in delegates.







……Lots more…..

[lligrd]

1. Are You Claiming They Will Pick The Loser And Declare

she is more electable even though she couldn't get elected? Fat chance!

[rodeodance]

3. Obviously the SD's are looking more seriously at "electability" before

making their decision. What it will be, i do not know.

[hokies4ever]

6. Good old rodeodance

I've got to admit, you could spin ANYTHING into good news.

By the way, how much money did you flush down the toilet donating to Hillary's campaign? :rofl:

[rodeodance]

12. HS bully tactics such as your post are immature.

[hokies4ever]

15. How much money did you flush down the drain donating to Hillary?

Answer the question. :rofl:

[rodeodance]

34. I am under no obligation to "Answer the question" from posters like you who chose to be disruptive.

[hokies4ever]

40. Quit crying and stick a pacifier in it

your candidate loss, so deal with it.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

72. Making ASSumptions makes you look FOOLISH.

[Tesha]

75. Well, looking foolish is certainly your area of specialty. (NT)

[rodeodance]

79. I disagree. Pointing out rude immature behavior is not foolish. bye

[Tesha]

82. I wonder -- were you the one who alerted on my post?

That would certainly make me more-convinced that not only
was my assumption correct but that my suggestion struck a
nerve.

Tesha

[rodeodance]

86. no, i did not. ......

i very seldom alert.--really over the top posts yes--but not this sort of stuff. happens too often.


but i do point out uncalled for behavior

[dogday]

107. Or maybe you are just breaking the rules. Yes, that is it..

[Tesha]

110. Or maybe not. But interpretations vary as do moderator reactions. (NT)

[dogday]

111. Mods follow the rules and several agree on whether

the post broke the rules.. Obviously the majority agreed....

Accept it and move on and try not to insult everyone on the board....

[Tesha]

113. How do you know? Do you have an "inside track" to the Moderators?

And if you do, *THAT* violates the confidentiality agreement
that they've all signed.

Tesha

[dogday]

114. I was one for six months... Any other questions? eom

[Tesha]

116. So in other words, you don't know (about my post)

You were just "spouting off".

Thanks for clarifying that.

Tesha

[dogday]

118. Don't have to, I know the mods are doing the job.. It is you who

spout with every word you write.. Your responses are flippant, insulting and demeaning..

[JuniperLea]

120. Try to keep up...

You asked a question, dogday gave you an expert opinion and gave you a clue as to how the rules work, saving you from doing all that pesky reading. Now you spout off in your attempt to say another is doing that... hmmm... here's another clue. If conversations move too quickly or you become confused, read the entire sub-thread. This will save a spout off, or an accusation of a spout off. Both can be embarrassing.

[Tesha]

123. I don't embarrass just because you command it, sorry. (NT)

[JuniperLea]

124. Oh my...

I'm not seeing a command anywhere in this sub-thread... hmmm...

Have a nice day.

[dogday]

126. Well at least you have learned to apologize.. That is a first step

You are on your way...

Seriously, why the chip on your shoulder? You post with such animosity, it spews off the pages and onto my keyboard...

[Tesha]

127. There are certain posters I have become familiar with.

I adjust my posting style to match the audience.

Tesha

[dogday]

129. Well if you can dish it out, you can take it, right?

good for you, hope that works out for ya, really I do...

[Tesha]

130. So far, so good. (NT)

[JuniperLea]

131. That's fine... I do that too...

But that is no excuse for being rude... or willfully ignorant.

[JuniperLea]

115. No, she didn't

Making your post rude nonsense. I have it on good authority.

[dogday]

106. Still haven't registered in that manners class I see...

Looking like shrew is certainly your area of specialty.. Is there no end to your insults, I ask?

[quickesst]

20. Obama supporter....

"I've got to admit, you could spin ANYTHING into good news.

By the way, how much money did you flush down the toilet donating to Hillary's campaign?"


....proving once again that disdain and hatefulness for other democrats is acceptable. Thanks.
quickesst

[hokies4ever]

21. Quit crying and stick a pacifier in it

Your mom signed the DU permission slip, so walk it off. :rofl:

[rodeodance]

36. I am glad to know that your immature posts are not representitive of the mature BHO fans on DU.

........Quit crying and stick a pacifier in it
Posted by hokies4ever


Your mom signed the DU permission slip, so walk it off.

[hokies4ever]

41. Stupid threads get stupid responses

so keep making these dumb threads as you so well please. :rofl:

[rodeodance]

47. You keep showing how immature you are. Keep it up.

[hokies4ever]

50. You keep showing how 'low information' you are

Still supporting that gas tax holiday pander?

[dogday]

109. No class, it shows....

[rodeodance]

133. Register for some manners classes at your local school.

[Arkansas Granny]

53. This is not a stupid thread at all. We all realize that the nomination

is going to come down to the superdelegates since neither candidate has been able to get the required 2025 delegates necessary to clinch the nomination. It's my understanding that the function of the SDs is to chose the candidate that they feel is best for the Democratic party and has the best chance of being elected regardless of the delegate count or the popular vote. The fact that Obama has not gained enough support from them to tip the scales tells me that they might still have some doubts about his electability.

[hokies4ever]

54. Or they're subscribing to the '50-state strategy'

like they keep telling the people in the media. They want all the voters to have their say before they come out with their preference. Don't make the mistake of assuming that undeclared is the same as undecided. You really think that Pelosi is actually thinking about going for Hillary? Jimmy Carter has all but said that he's going for Obama. If you listen closely to what most superdelegates tell the media, it's clear that most of them are undeclared, not undecided.

[Arkansas Granny]

77. Whether undeclared or undecided, I have no way of knowing how they'll go.

[DeeDeeNY]

55. "Regardless of the delegate count or popular vote"?

That is quite disheartening and not good for democracy. Why would anyone bother voting if they're just going to be overruled in the end by those who think they know better than the electorate?

[JuniperLea]

132. And keep responding!

Please do respond in the same stupid manner on whatever thread you deem stupid. It will up your post count and make you feel better about yourself.

[Tesha]

46. If they are, then your gal is toast.

Her "negatives" are far higher than 50% (more like 65%,
IIRC) so she'd be a tragically awful choice as our
candidate in the General Election.

Tesha

[rodeodance]

60. There will be aguments on both sides. Time will tell.

[Texas Hill Country]

99. they know we have to win the prez... good for them.

[Doityourself]

100. It's over. Just swallow it.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. There is no loser until there's a winner

and the SDs will decide the winner.

[hokies4ever]

16. What likelihood do you give Hillary winning the nomination?

Please, give me the odds. Obama is slowly trickling in the superdelegates day by day.

[MonkeyFunk]

98. It's irrelevant to my point

[JuniperLea]

125. True... and you have to remember...

The SD's are POLITICIANS. As a rule, politicians try their damnedest NOT to alienate anyone who might vote for them. Despite the pundits saying they were coming out in droves, I expect any movement to be slow and calculated, regardless of the final outcome.

[DemVet]

57. Buyer's Remorse with Obama for many voters.

[Catchawave]

85. And why he can't close the deal I'm sure.

Hillary knows this and keeps up the good fight despite the media declaring her "toast".

[eridani]

89. Clinton's top donors have switched to Obama

How many have gone the other way?

[cali]

2. Sure it's important, and there may be some SDs who think Clinton

is more electable, but what you need to understand is how few SDs Obama needs. He needs less than a third of the remaining uncommitteds. Furthermore, I believe most SDs understand that if they denied the nomination to the candidate who's ahead by every metric, Obama, and handed it to Clinton, they'd make her unelectable by doing so.

[rodeodance]

5. And you need to recall that the main mission of the SD's is to look at who can

beat the Repug in the GE.

[hokies4ever]

7. 'Keep hope alive'

And I always thought that Obama was the hopemonger. Turns out that Hillary supporters buy into his 'hope' message as well. :rofl:

[rodeodance]

25. Mocking that phase is unbecomming at best.

........'Keep hope alive'
Posted by hokies4ever


And I always thought that Obama was the hopemonger. Turns out that Hillary supporters buy into his 'hope' message as well. .........

[rodeodance]

26. "And I always thought that Obama was the hopemonger" interesting comment from you.

[CakeGrrl]

9. But what you're banking on is that the SDs are as easily influenced

by the Clinton campaign as her supporters, and according to the SD endorsement trend throughout the Wright guilt-by-association attack, that isn't the case.

Some SDs are actually turned off by the strongarm Clinton tactics and see beyond the "Obama can't win because he's black" meme:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pressure_Mounting_on_IN_and_NC_0506.html

[rodeodance]

22. I posted this because its says the SD's are looking seriously at the electability

issue.

[CakeGrrl]

31. Fair enough - some are, yet some remain policy-focused

But to the electability aspect, I think they're also going to weigh Clinton's consistently higher negatives against both Obama and McCain as well as Obama's resiliency in regaining the momentum that some thought he lost over Wright The Sequel. He resoundingly beat expectations in NC and IN.

[hokies4ever]

43. And the trickle of superdelegates

proves that they think that Obama is more electable.

[cali]

11. whatever. this is over. Hllary has lost.

her odds of getting the nomination are only slightly higher than my odds of winning megabucks. The fact is that SDs have been heavily breaking for Obama for three months now, and continue to do so with 4 coming out for him just yesterday. You want to continue deceiving yourself that Hill has more than the slimmest chance of getting enough SDs to win, feel free. It's no skin off my back.

[rodeodance]

23. oh cali, those TV pundits are silly. As the title says: "Superdelegates say, we will decide"

[cali]

37. If you're suggesting that I'm parroting TV pundits- bzzzzt. wrong

Unlike you, I don't watch TV. I don't have TV and I'm, yes, gasp an elitist who thinks TV sucks.

[rodeodance]

49. well, the pundits are all saying that as are

the so-called 'progressive' bloggers.

and i did not call you an elitist ---so stop implying I did.

Whatever.

[JuniperLea]

122. People who grow up with eleven fireplaces...

Know who they are;)

[JuniperLea]

121. How do you watch Obama without a TV?

He isn't near as inspiring on my giant flat-screen computer monitor.

Why do you feel the need to continually beat up other DUers who want to have a little faith? Do you have so little faith in what you are saying that you have to repeat it over and over again, like a Republican? Or, does it make you feel superior to stomp on "the little people?"

I hope you don't ever post about something you saw on television... that would make you look like a shameful hypocrite.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5869536&mesg_id=5869536

[eridani]

91. Obviously the one who inspires the most Rethugs to come out and vote against her n/t

[leftofcool]

4. That is their job

[rodeodance]

10. yes, and I sense -via this article that SD's are starting to think more

seriously about this issue.

[hokies4ever]

19. Even Hillary supporters are starting to turn against her

McGovern told Hillary it's over and Fienstein is hinting that she may be leaving soon as well.

[rodeodance]

24. some have. not all. And just a reminder. McGovern is NOT a SD.

[hokies4ever]

42. The VA superdelegate

supporting Hillary defected yesterday. She hasn't stopped the superdelegate trickle and that is why as each day passes, the coronation slips further and further away.

[quantass]

13. Obama clearly is Electable and see no clear path for Hillary. Time to unite now

this OP seems more like trying to hope hillary still has a chance...there is none, unless something remarkable to change the tone in the next (and final) 3 weeks of all this. Obama is our presumptive nominee and it is time for the strayers to begin to start thinking happy thoughts

[rodeodance]

32. “I will look at who I think can be the winner in November,”

..Neutral Democrats representing districts across the country voiced the same sentiment.

“I will look at who I think can be the winner in November,” said Rep. Lincoln Davis (D-Tenn.), who has yet to endorse a candidate.

Davis said he has become more focused on the question of electability as Obama has become ensnared in high-profile controversies. Since winning a string of primaries in February, Obama has been forced to distance himself from the incendiary statements of his pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and to try and explain his own controversial remarks made at a San Francisco fundraising event.

“In the last two or three weeks I’m focusing more on that being important,” said Davis, in reference to the electability of the Democratic nominee.

[BootinUp]

14. Pelosi

needs to review her statements for obvious contradictions.

[bluetrain]

18. She, also, needs to hang her head in shame for taking "off the table" the task she was

elected to do!

[rodeodance]

27. Yes, she was a disappointment from the start. She had the power to do

this, but she failed.

[bluetrain]

29. Not even "failed"; never even tried. Useless.

[rodeodance]

33. yes, you are right. Pelosi did not even try. Thanks

[bluetrain]

45. She's a turncoat. Not the only one in the party. And I don't care if they

threatened her or not. She knew what she was in for and she buckled to fascists. As will Barack.

[ingac70]

17. Obama is certainly more "electable" than Clinton...

Thats why more people have voted for him! Hill is a loser!

[rodeodance]

28. as the title of the article says--"Superdelegates say, we will decide"

[ingac70]

30. I wouldn't have such a woody right now if I were you...

The SD's aren't going to pull a Supreme Court for Bush moment... bank on it!

[rodeodance]

35. and your crystal ball tells you that?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

52. personal insults and threats--is that all you can do?

.........something you are seriously lacking...

I'll be glad when you go the way of jackson_dem!

[xmas74]

84. So, we are allowed to threaten other posters with

tombstones?

I've read the rules and that type of post is not allowed here.

[Freedom Train]

39. Kicked and proudly recommended!

It is ALL about electability now. The Obama supporters can cover their eyes and ears and pretend that it isn't, but the electability issues is what will give Hillary the nomination. :patriot:

[rove karl rove]

44. If electability is the main criteria for the SD's

They'd better pick her. Or I guess they can stick to ideology and principle and go with Barack, but they'd better be prepared to lose. MCCain can beat him easily, look at those exit polls.

[rodeodance]

51. It is refreshing to know that electability is being taken seriously now. i think this

issue may take greater importance as time goes on and they seriously look at the exit polls

[onenote]

58. and when they decide to go for Obama, will you then acknowledge his electability?

[rodeodance]

59. why should I??

[onenote]

67. Was wondering if consistency mattered?

You would support their judgment if they concluded HRC was electable and Obama was not, but implicit in your reply is that if they conclude he is electable and go with him, you will either disagree with their judgment on that or take the position that electability isn't relevant.

And from the few SDs I've spoken to as I make my rounds here in DC, electability is a factor, but not necessarily in the way your OP suggests. What matters to a lot of SDs is their own electability and they are quite concerned that they could end up losing support if they upset the settled expectation that Obama has captured the nomination. There also is the not so little factor of Obama's list of 1.5 million donors -- most elected SDs would love access to the portions of that list for their states/districts.

[rodeodance]

71. who says I or anyone else has to be 'consistant" .

...
You would support their judgment if they concluded HRC was electable and Obama was not, but implicit in your reply is that if they conclude he is electable and go with him, you will either disagree with their judgment on that or take the position that electability isn't relevant.

[onenote]

74. You don't have to be. Of course you don't have to be credible either

Thanks for playing.

[rodeodance]

78. ha ha. have a nice day

[Doityourself]

101. HA HA..Bingo..

[iconicgnom]

135. thanks for the laugh! n/t

[Quixote1818]

105. Because you are promoting the Superdelagetes elect-ability argument

:eyes:

[eridani]

93. A 65% negativity rating means that Clinton is not electable, period n/t

[bowens43]

56. First , Obama is more electable than hillary

second, if the SDs over turn the nomination process and give it to hillary, she won't have a chance in the GE. Sd are not stupid, they know that Most vast majority of Democrats and of independents will vote for Obama. They are not going to give the nomination to the loser.

[rove karl rove]

62. that's not "electibility"

The question is can he beat McCain in November? Winning the nomination narrowly does not answer that question. He'll have his primary supporters, but just some of Clinton's, and the moderates would about all go to McCain.

[onenote]

68. so the party's "moderates" support continued war, overriding Roe v Wade, etc.?

Why exactly are they part of the party? And why would they support HRC if that's how they feel about the issues?

[Benhurst]

61. Whatever the super delegates say, their votes are subject to change.

I'm guessing they will go with Obama; but nobody will know for sure, including the delegates themselves, until the votes are cast, and it is still a long time until that is done.

Obama's people should muzzle Nancy Pelosi. Madam Impeachment-is-off-the-table hardly helps. Rolling over for Bush is the only trick she knows.

[bigtree]

63. yep. they will decide this

and, we will see . . .

[lojasmo]

64. One reason SD's have chosen Obama 2:1

since Feb. I suppose.

[livingmadness]

65. The Washington Post had some interesting things to say about Hillary's chances ...

I sent a message to one of her most loyal supporters early Wednesday morning asking what are her realistic options? "She has only one option," he replied. "Gracefully exit and help unify the party to beat McCain." How quickly, he was asked. "I would advise them to figure out how to do it as soon as this weekend," he replied.

Another veteran Democrat who has backed Clinton was equally pessimistic in his private assessment. "It's hard to see a path toward the twin goals of Hillary winning and the party uniting," he wrote. "Her strategy cannot be to destroy the village in order to save it. The superdelegate dam is about to break. Hillary losing McGovern is like LBJ losing Cronkite."

[Maribelle]

66. Irony abounds among Obama's supporters. The very same ones that bash Florida and Michigan ...

with their 'rules are rules' pomp - - are the exact ones that want to change the rules defining how the superdelegates are allowed to vote.

[onenote]

70. Maybe some do, but I think most Obama supporters here are fine with the SD rules as they are

They are free to vote however they choose. In fact, as I recall, there was a lot of gnashing of teeth from a few HRC supporters here over the fact that Kennedy and Kerry are supporting Obama even though she won the Mass primary. And I don't recall a similar outburst from Obama supporters over the fact that Virginia governor Tim Kaine is backing HRC even though Virginia went for Obama.

[rucky]

69. What's the metric? n/t

[rodeodance]

73. Are you going to measure how SD's are thinking? ha ha --go for it.

[rucky]

76. I already know how they're thinking...

All eyes are on them, and they're playing CYA with a vague rationale for how they'll vote. Can't say I blame them.

[rodeodance]

81. ah, the old crystal ball trick. good luck with that.

[rucky]

96. ah, the old faux superiority when someone's trying to have a conversation

with you trick.

good luck with that.

[Cass]

80. Obama supporters who are coming unglued over this article

give away their fear that their candidate is unelectable. Seems to me that if you were confident in his electability you would have no need to attack and hurl insults at someone for merely posting an article explaining the process.

And, attacking a long-time DUer for posting this article is totally uncalled for. If you are unable to read an article explaining the nomination process without going ballistic and hurling insults at a fellow DUer, I would suggest that you desperately need to step away from your computer until you can get it together enough to post rationally.

[skipos]

83. No, not really.

I am just tired of Hillary and Bill losing the pledged delegates, the popular vote and the most states, yet still their Baghdad Bob inspired campaign continues to try to find SOME metric they can win (right now, that metric is white people). You can cherry pick polls, as I am sure you do, but the grand pattern is that Obama is just as electable as Hillary and Bill.

[rodeodance]

92. you would go along way with obama's unity campaign if you would

give Hillary credit for being the candidate. and not lump Hill into Hillary's candidacy

[skipos]

112. Her own supporters claimed it was a "two for one"

With they way they join McCain in attacking Obama, it is a 3 for 1 really.

I used to defend Hillary around here, but she has showed me that she only cares about herself. She didn't care about MI until it was clear that she needed it to win. She doesn't care about a Democratic president in 08 unless it is her.

And by the way, there are plenty of obnoxious Obama supporters around here, but you are one of the most obnoxious Hillary supporters.

[rodeodance]

88. personal attacks is all many Obama fans have these days. They seldom discuss any

thing anymore--just attack attack .......


thank you for your post.


it is beyond sad.

[SeaLyons]

94. BO fans have about as much substance

as their candidate does :sarcasm:

[Blondbostonian]

117. Try going to Taylor Marsh or Hillaryis44

Blatant racial comments. Support for the Republican candidate.

I'm thinking you would be more at home there.

[Quixote1818]

104. Have you actually taken the time to read most of the posts?

I would say most of the posts do show confidence and do not go on the attack.

[eridani]

87. No one with Clinton's high negatives is electable, period n/t

[Occam Bandage]

90. "I can win" is a funny argument for someone who's lost the Democratic nomination.

[Quixote1818]

103. Isn't that the truth. nt

[SeaLyons]

95. K&R

Kick for Hillary and electability.

Great Post.

[backscatter712]

97. Electability's a fine criterion.

Obama showed his electability last Tuesday, and Hillary show her lack thereof.

[Tesha]

128. Precisely. (NT)

[Quixote1818]

102. I will tell you right now that the probability of enough Super-delegates voting for Clinton

to give her the nomination is zero. That is unless something catastrophic happens to Obama. The Supers are only there to overturn the people if something devastating comes up about a candidate late in the game. That way there is an out for the party. Based on the results in IN and NC the Wright issue doesn't rise to that level.

Hillary's chances are zero. It absolutely won't happen I promise you that with rock solid certainty.

[Jennicut]

108. Hill and Obama can both beat McLame so what is your point?

National polls show both would beat McLame or are tied with him. Its not like its a 10 point difference, there is NO difference.

[Seabiscuit]

119. Pelosi should have her head examined. If her bottom line is

that SDs should not give the nomination to the candidate who lags in delegates, then (1) she's saying they should not follow the rules set up for Super Delegates, and (2) they should NOT be allowed to take into account whatever is important. She's saying the ONLY thing they should do is award the nomination to whoever has a plurality of "pledged" delegates, a proposition which violates all the rules.

She's a walking hypocritical self-contradiction.

Of course, she has her followers: her nutcase message is the rallying cry for all DU Obamanoids, you know, the ones who have taken over this board and flushed it down the toilet.

[rodeodance]

134. Pelosi last me a long time ago. And I agree with the flushing down the toilet .