"Obama lost in Michigan."

[Erin Elizabeth]

Again, I heard a Clinton campaign spokesman say this on TV, just this morning.

How can you lose a game in which you weren't even a player? Per the DNC rules, he wasn't even on the ballot. So how could he "lose" Michigan? The guy actually used that as a point to defend his argument that Obama wouldn't win the GE.

And Clinton, who left her name ON the ballot, barely edged out "no choice" (because Kucinich missed the deadline to get his name off and urged his supporters to vote for "no choice"). How can you say you won an election contest in which you barely got more votes than "no choice?"

But the biggest question I have is this: seeing as Clinton has no shot at being the nominee, isn't it INCREDIBLY irresponsible of her campaign to be on TV talking about how Obama wouldn't win the general election? Are they not Democrats anymore?



I'm pasting the oath they had to sign per the DNC rules here, so it is clear what they were supposed to do:

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one's candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

I actually had a Clinton supporter tell me "participate in an election contest" doesn't include having your name on the ballot. How stupid is that? Of COURSE that's what it means. You'd have to have the brain power of a soggy paper bag not to know that. They ALL knew what that meant.

[goclark]

1. They are desperate and afraid

[Cha]

14. They lost.

Now, they're whiners.

[rug]

2. He didn't win either.

[mnotme]

3. The logic of Hillary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTY_bp1dTA4

[knixphan]

4. soggy paper bag

brilliant! :)

[Zynx]

5. He lost it in the same sense I lost the 100-meter dash in the 2004 Olympics.

[JRicks_GA]

33. Better luck next time. On the bright side...

you may have tied Hillary for last, under current Olympic Committee rules. That's gotta stand for something. :)

[helderheid]

6. I lost in Michigan too. My name wasn't on the ballot either.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Hey, you gave it your best shot.

[helderheid]

11. Friggin' MSM. I didn't have a hope.

:mad:

[Heather MC]

28. Actually Hillary lost: 40% of the MI voters perfered to vote for no body than vote for her,...

That's just sad.

[Scout]

38. except for the 55% who DID vote for her n/t

[vssmith]

47. There were a lot of people who didn't vote or crossed over

[casus belli]

7. I hear her talk a lot about not disenfranchising voters

What of the Obama supporters who weren't given the opportunity to vote for their candidate? A lot of Obama supporters crossed over to vote in the Republican primary because they didn't want to vote for "uncommitted".

[Hugabear]

8. Quick question for you

You know I'm a big Obama supporter here on DU. And I agree with your take.

However, I am rather curious why Obama and the others who took their name off the ballot in Michigan didn't do the same thing with Florida. Was there some sort of Florida rule that wouldn't allow them to do so? I know that on the GOP ballot, it listed even the candidates who had already officially dropped out by then.

[Erin Elizabeth]

13. What I read was that it was too late, the deadline

had passed. For all of the candidates. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

[rinsd]

24. That is incorrect.

FL law requires one to submit an affadavit stating you have dropped out of the race entirely.

[4themind]

19. Yeah, from what I've heard and read

(and I don't have the text of therule sorry) was that by the time they signed the pledge, it was too late for any of them to remove themselves from the florida ballot, while they were in the race. Some states have variations on this rule to prevent a "bait and switch" which is why Foley was still on the republican ballot even after the scandal.

[rinsd]

23. FL requires you submit an affadavit stating you are not longer a candidate.

Basically you have to swear that you are out of the race entirely.

That is why none of the candidates dropped out of FL.

4 candidates dropped out of MI in a political stunt aimed at currying favor with early voting states, IA & NH in particular.

[gal]

42. I think they did it out of respect for the early voting states.

You know there is a reason why the DNC has these states go first don't you?

[cliffordu]

10. So: she was the only one on the ballot - How many people actually

took the trouble to vote, just so they could vote "OTHER" - which I take to mean "Not Hillary."

[Erin Elizabeth]

15. LOL, great question!

Wish I knew the answer. Anyone?

[rinsd]

20. Except she was not the only one on the ballot. No matter how many times that lie is repeated

Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel & Uncommitted were the options on the MI ballot.

The Obama campaign through surrogates ran a radio ad urging their supporters to vote and to vote uncommitted

This is the script of the John and Monica Conyers radio ad, which will be broadcast on Detroit-area stations. Monica Conyers is president pro-tem of the Detroit City Council.

MALE: THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS CONFUSING. I WANT TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA BUT OBAMA'S NAME IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

FEMALE: THERE IS NO ONE ON THAT BALLOT I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT.

MALE: WELL, THESE FOLKS CAN HELP US. EXCUSE ME, CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS, WE NEED YOUR HELP.

FEMALE: HOW CAN WE VOTE FOR OBAMA ON TUESDAY?

Rep. Conyers: YOU CAN'T. YOU CANNOT EVEN WRITE IN OBAMA'S NAME. IF YOU DO YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT BECAUSE OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN CHOSE NOT TO PLACE HIS NAME ON THE MICHIGAN BALLOT SO AS NOT TO VIOLATE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES. BUT YOU CAN VOTE UNCOMMITTED

Councilwoman Conyers: IF AT LEAST 15% OF THE PEOPLE VOTE UNCOMMITTED, THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MUST SEND THAT PERCENTAGE OF DELEGATES TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION UNCOMMITTED.

Rep. Conyers: MY WIFE AND I ARE VOTING UNCOMMITTED. WE WILL WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO MAKE SURE THAT UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES GO TO THAT CONVENTION TRULY UNCOMMITTED SO THAT OBAMA CAN COMPETE FOR THEIR VOTE.

MALE: THANK YOU CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS. I WILL JOIN YOU AND VOTE UNCOMMITTED ON TUESDAY.

FEMALE: ME TOO - AT LEAST MY VOTE WON'T BE WASTED

Councilwoman Conyers: THIS TRUTH IN POLITICS MESSAGE WAS PAID FOR BY FRIENDS OF MONICA CONYERS

[cliffordu]

22. Cool - that answers my question better than I thought it would.

[Scout]

40. she was NOT the only Dem on the ballot, I'm so fucking sick of reading this lie here n/t

[Quixote1818]

12. Even if those states are added in, Hillary still loses.

Yet, they want their people to think that those two states would put them over the top. That is simply a lie.

[rinsd]

16. While Obama did not lose MI (he was not on the ballot) Why do people just make shit up?

"Per the DNC rules, he wasn't even on the ballot."

The DNC was not part of the 4 state pledge. That was initiated by the state Democratic parties of IA, NH, NV & SC

"And Clinton, who left her name ON the ballot, barely edged out "no choice" (because Kucinich missed the deadline to get his name off and urged his supporters to vote for "no choice"). How can you say you won an election contest in which you barely got more votes than "no choice?"

There were 5 options on the MI ballot, Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Dennis Kucinich & Uncommitted.

Hillary won 55 to 40 over uncommitted.

Dennis Kucinich urged people to vote for him (not uncommitted) and even campaigned in MI.

The Obama campaign using the Conyers as surrogates ran a radio ad encouraging Obama supporters to vote uncommitted.

[sandnsea]

21. There Was No Campaign

How can you support a Sovient Union election? You can't call it democracy when there's no campaign. SHE said Michigan wouldn't count. How can you defend this? Where are your morals? Do you have any? The election is over. You don't have to keep defending this lie. Let it go and regain your self-respect.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. It's true he didn't get any votes in Michigan

but not per DNC rules.

You guys just made that up.

[WeDidIt]

49. Candidates were directed to not campaign or *PARTICIPATE*

Staying on the ballot was participating.

[rucky]

18. I'm gonna miss the newspeak. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. OBAMA TOLD ALL HIS PEOPLE IN MI TO VOTE "UNDESIDED" FOR HIM

[Blondbostonian]

27. How's it feel to know your "girl" is almost DOA?

I don't care who you vote for either. I hope you're in the fetal position for months after June 3rd.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

29. link please, and there is no reason to YELL n/t

[rinsd]

31. I think this is what is being referred to

This is the script of the John and Monica Conyers radio ad, which will be broadcast on Detroit-area stations. Monica Conyers is president pro-tem of the Detroit City Council.

MALE: THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS CONFUSING. I WANT TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA BUT OBAMA'S NAME IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

FEMALE: THERE IS NO ONE ON THAT BALLOT I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT.

MALE: WELL, THESE FOLKS CAN HELP US. EXCUSE ME, CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS, WE NEED YOUR HELP.

FEMALE: HOW CAN WE VOTE FOR OBAMA ON TUESDAY?

Rep. Conyers: YOU CAN'T. YOU CANNOT EVEN WRITE IN OBAMA'S NAME. IF YOU DO YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT BECAUSE OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN CHOSE NOT TO PLACE HIS NAME ON THE MICHIGAN BALLOT SO AS NOT TO VIOLATE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES. BUT YOU CAN VOTE UNCOMMITTED

Councilwoman Conyers: IF AT LEAST 15% OF THE PEOPLE VOTE UNCOMMITTED, THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MUST SEND THAT PERCENTAGE OF DELEGATES TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION UNCOMMITTED.

Rep. Conyers: MY WIFE AND I ARE VOTING UNCOMMITTED. WE WILL WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO MAKE SURE THAT UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES GO TO THAT CONVENTION TRULY UNCOMMITTED SO THAT OBAMA CAN COMPETE FOR THEIR VOTE.

MALE: THANK YOU CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS. I WILL JOIN YOU AND VOTE UNCOMMITTED ON TUESDAY.

FEMALE: ME TOO - AT LEAST MY VOTE WON'T BE WASTED

Councilwoman Conyers: THIS TRUTH IN POLITICS MESSAGE WAS PAID FOR BY FRIENDS OF MONICA CONYERS

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/09/voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. yes it is and these.... and by the way the "uncommitted" was only 40% some blonging to Edwards....

why should Obama get 49%


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/09/voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/03/clinton-florida.html

http://obamawho.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/what-about-florida-and-michigan/

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. The yell was not intentional....sorry....

sometimes shit just happens

[Orsino]

26. "No choice" is a bitter Muslim elitist who bowls funny,

She won that primary fair and balanced. Square. Fair and square.

[Cha]

44. Aren't you fullla hilary shit?

She got you proper brainwashed. Poor Poor things.

[pnorman]

45. '"No choice" is a bitter Muslim elitist who bowls funny,'??????

Sounds like another Rush-Democrat!

pnorman

[frickaline]

30. heh, maybe they should call it an "involuntary forfeit"

:rofl:

[tokenlib]

32. I lost in Michigan ...MY JOB!! GO BARACK!!!!

The Clinton people who say this are idiots and morons--at least on this issue. They know better!!

[stray cat]

36. I also lost in Michigan - just like Obama my name wasn't even on the ballet and I lost

[Avalux]

37. But Clinton's campaign will tell you Obama's name WAS on the ballot -

and he took it off because he KNEW Hillary was going to win. (they really said this) :crazy:

[stray cat]

39. Just like W - she thinks all voters are complete idiots with no capacity for reason

or ability to see through bald face lies.

[Erin Elizabeth]

48. I believe you, a Hillary supporter told me that, too.

Suuuure, I said.

[IronLionZion]

41. Yup, he got 0 votes. Michigan must really hate him.

:crazy:

I'm pretty sure everyone lost with Michigan and Florida. The state Dem parties should learn from this. I'm proud of Chairman Dean for standing tall on this. Giving in to these two sets a dangerous precedent for those who would break the rules.

[rniel]

43. Obama is sore loser

Even though he wasn't on the ballot!

:wow:

[Fly by night]

46. So did I. Maybe (just maybe) for the same reason -- neither of us were on the ballot.

[krkaufman]

50. Why didn't they pull their names from the Florida ballots, too? n/t

[Mooney]

51. Obama forfeited.

Or something.