Attention! Feminists who won't vote for Obama in the General

[bain_sidhe]

In light of the damage to women and women's rights expected from McCain appointments to the judicary, the Department of Justice (esp. the Civil Rights Enforcement Division), the Department of Health and Human Services, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and countless other departments and agencies...

Your membership in the Evil Feminist Conspiracy (Not That It Really Exists) is hereby being revoked.

Please immediately surrender your EFC(NTIRE) membership card, your EFC(NTIRE) field manual, and the keys to your EFC(NTIRE) black helicopter.

That is all.

[Bicoastal]

1. As an Obama supporter...I think you should rethink this OP.

[bain_sidhe]

4. Too devisive, you think?

I was trying to have a little fun with it, but feminists in particular should realize that there's a lot more to lose than just the Presidency.

[highplainsdem]

16. Yes, it is. And while I realize you meant it as fun,

I've seen entirely too many posts here that were sexist (calling Hillary "Hilldabeast" or a "harpy") and too many accusations that she's "evil" to find this very amusing. Yesterday I spent some time in the morning alerting the mods to one post after another I found from Obama supporters suggesting hysterically that if Hillary were Obama's VP, she'd have him killed. I finally posted a topic saying that idiocy had to stop, and to my horror I saw, along with the people who agreed, some people posting to say that they believed it was a real risk. I was trying to figure out when DU had become so filled with people who believed Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh in their smears about the Clintons.

I'm going to vote for Obama. I do believe he has much less chance of winning the GE than Hillary would have had. I think he needs her on the ticket to have an improved chance of winning. But it's been all too obvious here that many of his followers are sexist and irrational. And honestly, our party would be much better off if the people stupid enough to believe those smears about the Clintons were all Republicans.

[NashVegas]

22. delete

[LisaM]

2. Who's not going to vote for him?

Believe me, the Hillary people will vote for him.

But my time and money is going to women candidates.

[bain_sidhe]

3. I think so too

but... this is to those who steadfastly insist that they won't. It's meant to be a lighthearted reminder that there's more at stake that the person in the oval office.

[LisaM]

5. It's not really very lighthearted to some of us.

I cared deeply about Hillary's candidacy and to see people here treat her the way the right wing has since 1992 is very hurtful.

[nichomachus]

6. I started out leaning toward Hillary

and found it disturbing to see her using right-wing tactics -- race-baiting, illegal robocalls, anoymous smear mailings, whisper campaigns -- against Obama.

[bain_sidhe]

8. I'm sorry

I didn't mean to offend anybody. And I'm not talking to those who require the use of clothes pins and/or smelling salts to vote for Obama, but will do it.

And I agree that it's been hurtful to see her treatment here, and in other places on the net. I've probably spent more cyber-ink defending her than anything else, even though I was on the fence until recently. My sole calculation in this race was "which one is more likely to win us the White House," and the pros and cons for each of them balanced out for the longest time. Although, as a 52-year old white woman, I relished every one of her victories, I had serious concerns about her ability to win the G.E., and that's what kept me on the fence. In the end, I came to the conclusion that either one of them could win, or either one of them could lose, so what decided me was which one would deliver the greater benefit to the party by winning. I think that's Obama, but I acknowledge that reasonable people can differ on that.

But I honestly believe it's really over now... and if it so happens that the SDs overturn the primary/caucus result and nominate Hillary, she now WOULD CERTAINLY lose the G.E. because of the way in which she got the nomination.

I say this in the full knowledge that it is now unlikely that I will see a female president in my lifetime, and that makes me very, very sad. But I can't cry about that right now; we have a Presidency to win. I'll cry later, believe me.

[LisaM]

10. Yes, you may never see a woman president in your lifetime

which, let me add, I hope is very long!

I did a little poll here months ago on whether it mattered to men (I asked for men only) whether we ever had a woman as president. The results were disheartening: 19%. What it REALLY tells me is that Hillary's femaleness, no matter how people try to spin it, has hurt her to some extent. There are a lot of women who aren't ready for a woman president, so I imagine the male community lags behind that a little.

It wasn't a very big sampling. My posts don't usually attract a lot of attention (the ones I start) but it would be interesting if someone else tried, especially now.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. I think you might be misreading those poll results.

Does it matter to me if we elect a woman president? Not particularly. Would I vote for a woman candidate if she was most qualified. Definitely.

It's the policies, the positions, not gender that make a difference.

That said, I fully expect to see a woman president within the next six cycles - that's only 25 years. And it could be whoever is Obama's VP, in '16. Unless, of course, his VP choice is a DLCer.

Boxer '16!

[LisaM]

17. No, I'm not misreading.

No offense, but you're not in the 19%. I think it's important that we elect a woman, but I also think it's important that we one day elect a black, a Latino, someone who's Asian, and someone who's gay.

Only 25 years? If someone's 52, that means she wouldn't see a woman president until she's 77, and that's well into retirement. The issues that affect working women NOW will, IMO (and you are free to disagree) are better addressed by a woman. Obama would be better than McCain, but it's not the same.

ONLY 25 YEARS?

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. That's what I'm saying. I'm assuming the 19% are those to whom it

matters - and I know I'm not in that group. That doesn't mean that I oppose a woman's candidacy by any means, however. My priorities in a candidate is a connection with with base, valuing the progressive agenda, opposing the corporate agenda, and above all opposition to the DLC. If equally viable male and female candidates fit those requisites, I would likely break for the woman if for no other reason than to shake up the establishment thinking. IOW, I would go for Boxer over Dean.

I don't think it's important to elect people by what they are nearly as much as by what they believe. I'd never vote for Condi, no matter who she was running against. I could vote for Hillary in the GE, but never in the primary - she stands against too much of what I believe are basic Democratic principles. That said, I might even support her in the primary if her opponent equaled her in disregard of the progressive activists.

25 years. Assuming the next 8 to be Obama's, that's expecting a woman president within the next 4 terms following his. If he chooses a woman VP, it could well be 8 years. Might be anyway. And yes, I do disagree - I think men can support and push for long-term maternity and family leave, pay equity, government supported daycare for working and job-seeking mothers, among other issues. It doesn't take a WOMAN to do what's right - it takes a progressive Democrat.

[LisaM]

19. LOL., but think of it this way.

If we'd have 43 women presidents in a row, wouldn't you think to yourself, hmmm, isn't it about time we elected a man?

It's like that scene in "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" and they keep flipping a coin thinking that eventually, since the odds are really 50-50, they'll get a different result, but it's always the same, 50 times in a row or something.

The metaphor being, of course, that the odds were stacked against them from the start.

I feel that way sometimes!

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. I know what you mean, and appreciate it,

but technically women are not doing so terribly, relatively speaking. Women have only been enfranchised since 1920 (only 15 presidents ago); first woman senator was appointed in 1922 (also 15 presidents ago); and the first woman senator to be elected was in 1932 (13 presidents ago). Allowing for a 'head of steam' to build up, you could not really expect a viable female candidate until the 1950s at the earliest, as it would take 20 years of political experience for her to make herself viable, so instead of a field of 43 we're talking about a field of 11.

Yeah, I know there are problems with framing it this way, but consider that blacks have had the franchise since 1866 (23 presidents ago) and it has taken until this year for a really viable candidate to present himself.

Yes, it is about time we had a woman as President - and as soon as one comes along who holds to the same progressive populist fundamentals I cherish, I will vote for her. But even then, it won't be because she's a woman, but because she's a progressive populist. She won't have any more hurdles to pass than any male candidate, for me.

[LisaM]

25. I just meant, other things being equal

I'll take the woman.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Other things being equal.

I'm cool with that.

[NorthernSpy]

7. believe it or not, some people insist that they won't...

Even with McCain braying in the background about all those right-wing judges he's just itching to appoint, they'll never vote for that "racist", "extremist" "Barack Hussein Osama Bin Laden Obama" -- never mind that he's a mainstream liberal who's actually on their side.


:eyes:

Of course, in the next breath, they beat the drums for women's rights. Enjoy them while they last, I say.


'Cause after their buddy McCain gets in toting a whole stack of promises made to the religious right...

[seaglass]

9. Just like Bush? I'm beginning to think that this is a threat

from Democrats to keep women in the fold....always the threat of overturning Roe V. Wade...interesting how long Bush had a Republican majority in Congress and a Right Wing majority on SCOTUS but it didn't happen.

Frankly, I'm sick of all politicians right now and have been completely disillusioned by this primary.

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for Obama but I'm definitely not feeling the love.

[futureliveshere]

13. The problem is that 3 liberal judges are retiring in the next few years

and McCon has gone on record to say that he will elect conservative judges. So, this is a crucial issue.

[NorthernSpy]

14. Eventually, the GOP is going to have to throw their fundy base a bone or two...

If you want to gamble that it won't happen during a McCain presidency, be my guest.


:shrug:

[seaglass]

28. I have plenty of other reasons not to vote for a Republican.

But as I said I have become very disillusioned by this primary and it has made me think about how politicians play to different constituencies' fears to get votes.

[Forkboy]

11. Not this one, apparently.

This is from an exchange elsewhere on DU right now.

the young women of this country may just have to fight that fight all over again to appreciate it....I don't have to worry about getting pregnant. They can't be bothered to support a woman, fuck em.

[NashVegas]

26. Today's Not the First Time Something Like That Has Been Posted

on DU. It's been said for a few years now. Not a lot, not often, and certainly not a majority.

It's just that some of us are tired of being the ones who were willing to take the risk of being seen as "unfeminine" and "shrill," by a younger generation. Today's young women are going to have to decide what they want, and are willing to fight for.

[rodeodance]

15. Take your crap back to the sewer!!! FLAME-BAIT!!**********

[bain_sidhe]

21. I love you back!

[NashVegas]

23. Everyone Knows That All Good Feminists Vote for Obama

Feminists who voted for Hillary were already designated as bad feminists, so, speaking for myself, as a bad feminist, I don't give a shit what you think.

I'll vote for Obama in November if a) he's the nominee and b) if he gives me a reason to vote FOR him.

[nomorewhopper]

24. no serious/real feminist would ever vote for mccain in the GE

it's only the "yogogirl" crowd who are huffing and puffing because they really don't understand the whole process

i mean, would a real feminist vote for mccain when so many judges are due to retire during his first term? buh bye roe v. wade