"Plenty of us don't like him for political reasons."

[matcom]

ok. Seen this statement alot here on DU. Methinks this comes from the same people who say "We don't know anything about him..." and "He has no experience...."

SO.....

"Plenty of us don't like him for political reasons."

List 'em.

He is Liberal
He is Smart
He admits past mistakes and appears to learn from them (think gas tax repeal)
Pro Choice
Pro Diplomacy
Sees problems with NAFTA
Pro poor and middle class
Has worked for Social Change and Communities before becoming senator
Pro Health Care for all

SO....

Go ahead. List 'em.

Give us some substance, not bullshit.

[stray cat]

1. He is not Hillary or female? just to list a couple of others

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LaurenG]

2. Well good luck getting any answers

I hope you get some but I doubt it.

[kentuck]

4. Damn matcom...why do you make this test so hard !

:mad:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. He's a black man.

[otohara]

6. Quick Learner

Responds quickly to attacks.
Understands the constitution.

[scheming daemons]

7. His political philosophy and hers have a 97% overlap.... so...

..anybody who says they oppose him for "political reasons" is lying.


Democrats who won't vote for him against McCain are doing so for ONE reason.... race. No matter what they say.


....because there's no possible way that a Hillary supporter would choose McCain over Obama for political reasons.

[wmbrew0206]

55. That is complete BS

While I will vote for the Democratic Nominee, to say that fellow Democrats are racist because they don't vote for Obama is ridiculous.

Here are a few of my reservations about Obama:

I don't trust his stance on gun control. I think he has chanced his stance for political expediency and will curtail gun rights severally if given the chance.

I don't think he understands what is involved in a withdraw from Iraq. His "Strike Force" idea to go back into Iraq to get terrorists as needed is not realistic and shows a lack of understanding in regards to military operations.

I do not see any track record of working across party lines that backs up his assertion that he can. In the military past performance is a good indicator of future action and I don't see any past record of working across the isle.

I'm a former military officer and an Edwards supporter. If Obama is the nominee I will vote for him. However I am tired of being called Racist on this board if I'm white and didn't vote for Obama.

If you are posting on this board, there is a 99% probability you'll vote for the Democratic Nominee. However, there are a lot of democrats who could cross over to vote for McCain. The things I listed above are three very important things to democrats I know. You are not helping to keep them in the fold if you tell them that they are racists if they don't vote for Obama.

Obama supporters need to clam down, realize their candidate will be the nominee, and reach out to those Democrats who are not as enamored with Obama as they are.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Cool! He Sounds Just Like Hillary!

[walldude]

26. EXACTLY!

They are not that far apart policy wise. Yet there have been tons of posts today by people who just can't bring themselves to vote for him.

[scheming daemons]

47. Only... he's much more likeable.... and far less annoying....

[babylonsister]

9. I'd like to hear all about it, too, but don't hold your breath.

Good question, and :popcorn:

[nomaco-10]

10. It is going to be so great to have somebody in the...

white house that has class, intelligence, integrity, dignity, honesty and some decorum. It's been a long damn time.
GO OBAMA

[redqueen]

11. I'll be interested to see the responses later.

[Kahuna]

12. Expect crickets. nt

[maxsolomon]

13. he's not left/progressive enough for me

kucinich was my 1st choice. BHO is to the right of dennis. everyone except noam chomsky is to the right of dennis.

i don't believe he will change as much as needs to be changed in this place (end the drug war, end iraq, universal health care, cut the military by 2/3, etc., eliminate the HSA, end high school after age 16, merge the ATF into the FDA, etc. ad nauseum), but i KNOW hillary would change less.

[Brundle_Fly]

22. you should vote for Nader then.

[maxsolomon]

34. oh, lord, where did i say that was a possibility?

never have, never will. i have a grip on reality.

and the reality is that BHO is a politician, and will inevitably disappoint all of us in some way. i'm not naive enough to expect otherwise.

by all means, support the man. i know i do. he's the only inspiring choice that we have. but america is one fucked-up place, and fixing it in 8 years is nearly impossible. i don't expect that BHO will be able to. ending the war, and holding the RW horde at bay would be accomplishment enough. anything else would be gravy.

[H2O Man]

14. He wants to outlaw flag pins. n/t

[sellitman]

15. He is an awful Pastor Picker?

:evilgrin:

[Solon]

16. He's NOT a Liberal, Jesus people, get a grip, he's a CENTRIST, a MODERATE...

not a liberal. Has anyone even read his campaign website? Fuck!

[maxsolomon]

17. amen, Solon

that's why making him out as a Black Nationalist is friggin absurd.

he only goes to HRC's left on the war.

[SeattleGirl]

18. Whoa. Take a breath there.

I think your blood pressure just shot off the chart.

[Solon]

19. The profound ignorance of claiming such a stupid thing does that to me...

If people would actually LOOK at his own fucking campaign website, it would be as obvious as the fucking steam coming out of my ears that he isn't a liberal.

[SeattleGirl]

20. My comment wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with what you said.

Just thought you were overdosing on anger.

Sorry.....

[Solon]

21. I just find it frustrating that so many supporters of Obama are ignorant of his stand on issues...

makes me fear for the future of this country. Hell, I support the guy, but I'm not blind either, he's no liberal, that much is clear, I wish others could see that.

[matcom]

23. why don't you TELL us about his RW issues?

go ahead. EDUCATE ME

[Solon]

24. I never claimed he was Right Wing, just Moderate, which is true...

I'll give a few examples, from his own website:

On the environment, he's for, for example, cap and trade means to reduce carbon emissions, a distinctly centrist philosophy of creating a market for clean air, of all things.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

He also advocates for "clean coal" technology, which is a misnomer itself, all they do to make "clean coal" is wash it, and then all those heavy metals and pollutants are dumped into rivers and streams. He's either ignorant of this practice, or doesn't care.

Obama is for expanding the Military, why, I do not know, but you can scroll down and read it here, I wouldn't consider that a liberal value myself, indeed I think the military's budget is hugely overblown and its too large already.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

Don't get me started on his Healthcare plan, its even worse than Hillary's and her plan is pretty bad. Its not Universal, and not even that practical, when you get right down to it. A lot of folks will still be left behind on this plan

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

I could go on, but these are some of the big ones, the problem with Obama is that he's a Moderate, like Hillary. This isn't a showstopper, neither one is as bad as McCain, but please, don't claim he's a liberal when he isn't.

[matcom]

25. I see election positions

vs. what he could actually do.

Here is the difference. We KNOW Hillary is a DLC (LIEberman) loyalist. Yeah, I have "HOPE" that President Obama will have a more SANE approach.

We KNOW Hillary is what she is. Let's get a guy in there who might be persuaded to ACTUALLY be LIBERAL on the issues.

Again, let's look to the Gas Tax fiasco.

[Solon]

27. OK, now you are basically saying he isn't a liberal, but might be dragged to the left after the...

election? Holy shit, I've been saying the same shit for weeks now. Oddly enough, everyone ignores me. I guess they don't want to think about what they actually have to do to persuade him to do the right thing. The question is whether he's going to be persuadable after the election.

[Shae]

28. We had a great liberal candidate

Did Dennis Kucinich get even 1% of the vote?
And I know it's partly because of the media, but it is what it is.

I'd rather have Kucinich than Obama for the nominee.
But I'd rather have Obama than Clinton or McCain.

[Solon]

30. That last sentence of yours I agree with 100%...

but again, that isn't my argument with the OP. We only had one liberal Candidate, and he is no longer in the primary, and we have two moderates, who only differ slightly on policy, vying for the nomination. I object to people trying to change reality to fit their own preconceptions.

[matcom]

37. No.

now what the hell does this have to do with my ORIGINAL post? and more importantly, what the HELL does this have to do with a DLC HILLARY?

[Solon]

38. It has nothing to do with Hillary, I was objecting to your false characterization of Obama being...

a liberal. That's not a reason to vote for him, even you conceded that his election positions aren't liberal, so the question is whether we can drag him to the left after the election. Electing Obama is only the first step, not an goal, the goal would be to drag him, kicking and screaming, to the left side of the spectrum, because its obvious he's not there yet.

[matcom]

39. Then McCain is your man

enjoy the women in your life losing their freedoms

enjoy your Supreme Court majority

and he is a HELL of a lot more Liberal than his opponent on BOTH sides

[Solon]

41. What the fuck is wrong with you?

You're nuts, I have no other explanation for this. Did I ever even hint that I wouldn't vote for him? Don't confuse my need for the facts to be presented honestly with my pragmatism.

[matcom]

43. you never answered my original question

and if you know me over the many years here, you KNOW i'm "nuts"

DUH

[Solon]

45. I did answer, you deflected, your point?

Really, if you want to believe Obama is a "secret" liberal, have at it, but I see no evidence that he is.

[SeattleGirl]

29. I'm not ignorant.

I have read his website, and I have read Clinton's. I chose Obama (after Edwards dropped out), but I for one have never claimed he was a liberal.

[Solon]

32. All that means is that the statement I made doesn't apply to you...

I was objecting to the OP, after all, who isn't you, and I find the notion of Obama being a liberal as laughable at best, and just sad at worst. I wish we had a liberal in this race, but we don't, so we have to deal with the second or third choice we settled on, the most we can hope for is that we can influence him after the election.

[LiberalAndProud]

40. Oh you

truthteller you!

It makes me crazy when the M$M refer to either of our candidates as "liberal". Moderate centrist = liberal, therefore fascist = conservative. Frightening.

[Solon]

42. Apparently McCain is "my man"...

:eyes:

[LiberalAndProud]

44. I guess ... mine too?

:shrug:

Language matters. When Bill ran, he was considered a Centrist. The definition has changed in the intervening years, and it's not for the better.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

49. "Obama Ranked Most Liberal Senator in 2007"

http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/01/obama_ranked_most_liberal_sena_1.html

"Obama Ranked Most Liberal Senator in 2007

It may or may not be a trophy that he wants to pick up right now.

The National Journal is out with its 27th Annual vote ratings and it ranked Sen. Barack Obama as the most liberal Senator in the entire Senate. (His first year he was 16th, and last year he was 10th.) But he wasn't alone in his shift to the left. Sen. Hillary Clinton was 16th herself in 2007 after being 32nd in 2006.

And there really wasn't much room between them. The Journal notes of the 267 measures on which both senators cast votes in 2007, the two differed on only 10."


It appears that Srenator Obama has become increasingly liberal over the course of his term. Somehow, he managed to beat my Senator Boxer for the title -- not an easy thing to do.

[Solon]

51. Most liberal when compared to all the rest of the Senators...

who are, let's be honest here, on the Democratic side, Moderates of one stripe or another all the way through, yes, even Boxer. So Obama is the most liberal among a bunch of Moderates and even rightwingers in the Senate, that's not saying much.

[democracy1st]

53. What the hell is wrong with moderating your liberalism ?

[redqueen]

54. It's mandatory if you want to get anywhere NEAR the presidency. (nt)

[Liberal Veteran]

31. Anyone who says they dislike Obama for "political reasons" but likes Hillary....

....is either ignorant or a fucking liar.

There really isn't enough difference between the two candidates to claim political positions as a reason for true dislike. You might LIKE or PREFER one candidate over the other, but I am not buying the line that someone would dislike one and like the other based on "political reasons".

[Solon]

33. True, to be honest, I don't really like either candidate...

at least not on their moderate political positions. On a more personal level, I more or less oppose Hillary more, mostly because I don't like establishing dynasties of any sort, especially in government.

[Indenturedebtor]

46. It has to be said though that he has the potential to move us

back to the left. We need someone to sell Democracy to America again... she's completely lost her way down the path of facism.

And you're right he's not Liberal... looks that way after we've gone SO far to the right but he's not. He will be a great first step however, and frankly he is more liberal than Bubba if the platform is anything to go by.

[Lilith Velkor]

52. That opposition is not based on fact

The word 'dynasty' does not apply to Hillary, but would to Chelsea.

[Thrill]

35. He's half Black thats why they don't like him. Because Politically he is just like Hillary

very few differences. I mean the policy differences are nit picky. with the exception of the Gas Tax. Truth Hurts

[NewHampshireDem]

36. Trust Matcom to cut to the chase

Thank you! :cheers:

[bridgit]

48. You-thinks "He is Liberal", admit it, that's all that really matters...

"He is Smart" - a given
"He admits past mistakes and appears to learn from them (think gas tax repeal)" - mmmmm, not quite there yet but thank you for your input http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4355200 = http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00213
"Pro Choice" - who isn't?
"Pro Diplomacy" - we'll see
"Sees problems with NAFTA" - so does HRC
"Pro poor and middle class" - I think w/due diligence he cruised right past both, so again: we'll see
"Has worked for Social Change and Communities before becoming senator" - since becoming a senator he's been sidling up with some odd bed-fellows
"Pro Health Care for all" - can't wait *sound good*

How do you feel about his take on product placement? :shrug:

[JimGinPA]

50. Obama's A Coward...

He's never had to dodge sniper fire.