Why is her campaign being so divisive...using racism, using threats toward the chairman.

[madfloridian]

I have been watching very little TV lately, but today I made an effort to go and watch when I saw a posting here that caught my interest. What Clinton's campaign is doing, not just in her own words, but in Bill's words, in the words of her surrogates on TV....

What they are doing is deliberately spreading anger among us, using racist code words on purpose.

The people speaking for her like McAuliffe, Lanny Davis, Ki Ki what's her name, and so many others.... use talking points that are so far out they don't even make sense. They say things meant to anger those of us who support Obama. It is deliberate.

Why?

Why would the campaign of a well-loved two term Democratic president set out to divide the party through anger and racist code words. Why would they do that?

Why would they agree to rules set out by the national party, and then decide those rules are unacceptable. Why would they use threats and intimidation against the party chairman?

Why would she carry things so far as to threaten the party with the nuclear option about Florida's delegates?

Why would her Florida co-chair keep going on TV and resort to practically yelling about the Florida delegates being seated at all costs, no matter the harm to the party. Why would she get in a shouting match with a radio host on a show like Larry King Live?

Why would her surrogate, Paul Begala, say we can not turn the party over to "eggheads and African Americans" while Donna Brazile is sitting right there? How insulting.

There is so much more. James Carville calling a good man like Bill Richard a "Judas" when he endorsed Obama. Lanny Davis spewing his foul rhetoric.

Howard Dean is only one target of theirs. The people of the party are also being targeted in words of divisiveness and vitriol.

I am not sure I know the answer. One thing I can say though....is that it is NOT because they love the party that much right now. They love themselves and their power much better it seems at this moment.

It is a sad thing to see for those of us who loved them for the eight good years in the 90s.

We are being urged to start reaching out to the other side in unity, so we can heal. Yet she and her campaign people are every day stirring the pot, bringing things to a boil again. Watching Larry King tonight was a scary thing.

Yet I am supposed to be, since the primaries last Tuesday, in a mode of reconciliation.

That works both ways.

[Johnny__Motown]

1. This is what polls well in W. Virginia and Kentucky, kinda like the gas tax holiday in Indiana

[madfloridian]

2. Are you saying racism and anger poll well in those states?

That would be sad.

[Blarch]

4. sad indeed.

[Johnny__Motown]

19. With the uneducated white working people who make less than 50K and are over 60, Yes, I think so

[madfloridian]

24. That's some pretty rough stereotyping there.

Don't you think?

[william37]

58. How sad for the Obama campaign

It helped Obama when he lost NH and his people labeled an entire state as racist for not voting for a black guy. And they have been using the tactic ever since. The latest was Dean comments that bringing up wright or any other stuff that looks bad for Obama was racist. I see that the tactic continues now with the seal of approval from the DNC Boss himself.

Wow, how far has the Dem party fallen. They are now employing Republican tactics to intimidate people. and it will work wonderfully this time because Obama is black.

Btw, it seems that the DNC has no use for Hispanics, poor people, working class whites, asians in the new coalition to win the election. Thanks Ms. Brazile for making that very clear on CNN.

[Tarheel_Dem]

62. Thanks for signing up to tell a bunch of lies. Enjoy your stay?

From your prose, and writing style, I know exactly who you "used to be". Enjoy it while it lasts.

[rodeodance]

64. Ms. Brazile is Dean's hatchet woman.

[jonestonesusa]

65. And this has what to do with Begala's comments?

Are you approving of his comments, excusing them, or opposing them?

[william37]

113. Begala was responding to Brazile divisive comments

About Obama not needing Hispanics nor working class whites to win the GE.

[madfloridian]

117. That is a lie. I have her quote from the transcript. Be honest.

"BRAZILE: Well, Lou, I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Paul.

But, Paul, you're looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater. "


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0805/06/se.02.html

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tarheel_Dem]

74. I knew it. Wasn't it Hillary who said "if you can't stand the heat"......?

[dchill]

89. If you feel sad for the Obama campaign...

you must be absolutely grief-stricken for the Clinton campaign. They are the ones really employing the tactics you ascribe to the Obama camp. Rove 101. Welcome back.

[ShortnFiery]

102. Welcome to DU

I hope you get "some sun" during your short stay? :evilgrin:

[ekwhite]

114. It is sad, given their history

But West Virginia and Kentucky are about as downtrodden as it gets. Neither state has a reputation for being progressive.

[PoliticalAmazon]

48. She's using it because it's the only tactic she has, and because it makes us react to her....

As long as we react to her, her campaign remains viable. She feeds of anger, and reacting to her anger-baiting is like breathing life into her came.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5915001&mesg_id=5915256

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. I've had the same thoughts. These tactics keep her relevant, and in the news.

Which is a last ditch effort of a broken down campaign. She has no money, so she has to say the most vile things to attract attention at this point. It's free, and it keeps her name in the headlines.

[juno jones]

83. It has been ever so with the repubs lo, this thirty years

Obama is intent on breaking this damn cycle. More power to him.

[Exilednight]

106. Funny, I haven't heard about the gas tax since Indiana ended. n/t

[DJ13]

3. A split party is a win for her if she's looking at 2012

Im surprised the DNC and the remaining SD's cant see what she trying to do.

[madfloridian]

5. I am sure they are aware of the anger we are feeling.

But Dean's actual role is limited, and the SDs are acting cowardly.

They are afraid of their constituents, afraid of the Clintons.

[DJ13]

10. Then their fear and failure to speak out may be our downfall this year

Theres nothing preventing Dean from speaking out at the increasing racism, nor preventing a letter of scorn about these tactics signed by 100 remaining uncommitted SD's.

[madfloridian]

11. He has been having private meetings with them around the country

I read an article about one today. Some of her SDs are getting worried, but this appears to be about the path of the party. They don't want to overtly cross her.

[william37]

60. It is not about her

They have crossed us...her supporters. Hillary has made it clear that she wants her voters to vote for Obama if he is the nominee. We will not forget come November of what the Obama supporters have done.

[ShortnFiery]

103. More Projection?

What's up is down?
What's bad is good?

HRC's horrid racist tactics are PROJECTED to Obama? :crazy:

[Kittycat]

6. They can see...

But she's run such a divisive campaign, that they have to be careful in how they handle her - so that her supporters don't jump the shark along with her.

[madfloridian]

8. Her campaign has pumped up the anger even more within her supporters...

It has been amazing to hear them call in to radio shows, or write letters to the editors.

It is a form of very cruel propaganda, the kind that will harm the party. Just like the FL and MI propaganda.

[Kittycat]

22. Donnie... He calls all the shows.

I'm waiting to find out who he is at Hillis44 or Mydd. I swear, everytime I get in the car - he's on hassling the talk show hosts with some nonsense RW talking point of the day. I just have to laugh.

[william37]

59. But we are jumping

We know what you have done. Do you actually think that any of Hillary's supporters are going to vote for Obama after what he has done to Hillary and her supporters? Well not so much Obama but his supporters.

[youngharry]

96. Propagandists from the right

LOOK, DON'T BE NAIVE, THERE ARE MANY REPUBLICANS ON THE BLOGS STATING THAT THEY RE HILLORY SUPPORTERS AND THEN THERE ARE

SOME THAT REPLY AS OBAMA SUPPORTERS. THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN DISINFORMATION FROM KARL ROVE.


SIMMER DOWN FOLKS. UNDERSTAND THIS IS A PROPAGANDA WAR FROM THE RIGHT-WING ONLY TO FURTHER DIVIDE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

DON'T BE TAKEN IN AND DON'T BE FOOLED!!! YOU'RE SMARTER THAN THat.

[mhoran]

108. Sorry, but...

...I think you're just looking to start more trouble.

[CakeGrrl]

7. I find it hard to believe she isn't burning bridges to 2012

I know I damn well won't forget if this scorched earth ploy damages Obama this go-round. I hope her colleagues don't forget this either.

It's a good thing we see what they're REALLY like under the hood. I really don't think they're sophisticated and long-range-thinking enough to be doing this to the benefit of the Democrats.

[ShortnFiery]

104. I'm saddened to see The Clinton's for what *they really are* = Bigots who'll act racist ...

when is serves to "SCARE UP" a few more votes for them. :nuke:

[AmiBlue]

125. They can

The DNC and SDs know full well that she is toxic as long as she attacks Obama. What I don't understand is why they do not end it instead of dribbling into Obama's camp a few at a time. Sometimes I think they are cowards; sometimes I think they are honoring the states that haven't voted yet; and sometimes I think they are trying to spare theclintons' feelings a bit by not going over en masse.

None of those are excuses, though, as long as she continues to divide the party. It will take a long time to heal the rifts, if they are healed at all and we need to get prepared for the GE.

[wileedog]

9. Because she is so far behind that the only way to not lose

is to break the game.

My 6 year old daughter does the same thing.

If she tears the whole thing down around her ears, there is a chance she can emerge from the rubble. The more chaos she sows, the more doubt she creates, the more anguish she spreads, the less good the party feels about the election and Obama at the top of it.

And that's her little sliver of daylight she will stab the entire party and country in the back to chase.

[K Gardner]

12. I am too angry to post anything as well-reasoned as this right now. After

hearing Hillary's "white vote" comment played all day; after reading about Bill's Excellent Adventures in W VA; and now after watching Larry King.. this woman and ALL her PEOPLE need to be run out of D.C. on a rail.

Thank you for posting.

[madfloridian]

14. Larry King tonight was a turning point for me. It was outrageous.

I am gaining new respect for Ed Schultz in many ways.

[william37]

115. This white man won't be voting for Obama

He does not represent my interests nor has my values. Why would I vote against my interests?

[Kool Kitty]

119. Your values and interests-what would those be?

[mmonk]

13. I prefer just moving on at this point. I have outrage fatigue

but mostly, it makes me sad. Staying in a constant anger mode for years and now this makes me want to go in my bathroom and close the door and scream bloody murder at the top of my lungs sometimes. I have to force myself to chill but I hope this doesn't last much longer.

[mhoran]

69. "Outrage fatigue"

Perfectly put.

I don't care what Clinton and her campaign staff say or do anymore. I don't care what motivates them or why they say or do the things they say and do.

I believe (some, obviously, will disagree) that this primary race is for all intents and purposes over, and that Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee. The process for Senator Clinton going forward will continue to be what it has been for quite some time now: death by a thousand paper cuts, as SDs one by one continue to join Senator Obama.

I do not believe that the SDs will overturn the will of the majority of Democratic voters. Quite simply, they understand that doing so would not only kill our chances in the GE, but would tear the party to bits.

If the decision is made to seat the Florida delegation, I will accept that decision and move on. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make an appreciable difference.

As Obama, Edwards, and others were not even listed on the Michigan ballot, no rational argument can be made for accepting the results of that vote. It won't happen.

The "nuclear option" won't happen, either. Senator Clinton is far from stupid. She understands that moving ahead with such an effort would be the death knell for her, not only for this primary, but for her entire political career.

All the noise and sound bytes and sabre rattling ultimately will amount to no more than that.

When emotions run high, reason is easily lost. When this whole thing is officially "done," most everyone will calm down and unite against the real enemy. There will always be a few people who will not be able to move on, but they will be a very, very small, and ultimately meaningless, minority.

As we move forward, both Senator Obama and Senator Clinton will lead the way in bringing us all back together.

Senator Clinton's supporters are passionate, loyal, and hard-working Democrats. I look forward to working with them as we move forward in preparation for the GE.

The handful of boorish, angry and ill-mannered posters on either side only persist when we engage them. I don't plan on doing so.

We are brothers and sisters. No one fights nastier and more intensely than siblings but, when the chips are down, we stick together and protect and defend our own.

[madfloridian]

75. Once you play the race card, things change. When you put down educated people, things change.

It puts another face on things.

Clinton has some apologizing to do if she is to be part of bringing us back together.

You can not divide the party along race and class and then say oops I did not really mean it.

Unity works both ways. They MUST leave my state alone, they must stop using race and class.

[mhoran]

79. I can't pretend to fully comprehend your experience as a Florida Dem

And I certainly didn't mean to be in any way dismissive of your concerns.

I don't see an apology ever coming from Senator Clinton.

But if I in any way offended, you have one from me.

[madfloridian]

82. Not offended, just realistic.

I appreciate your comment. But this has been a turning point in this party. I have seen two major Democrats I admired through the 90s lower themselves to such petty discourse.

We have been divided from friends here because of the lies about Florida.

I do not think they will be much help leading us forward.

[juno jones]

84. May I suggest a walk-in fridge?

Very soundproof and the temerature is soothing to the hot, burning face. :D

[Major Hogwash]

15. What's even worse, some Democrats still stand by her!!

Rahm Emmanuel doesn't though. Today he endorsed Obama.

[Emit]

18. I don't think Emanuel actually endorsed Obama, I think he just said

"... he's the presumptive nominee," ...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvzT8keHzVS3YjP8BJDDrf64A_AwD90I881O0

If he did, that is a sure sign the race is over for Hillary

[madfloridian]

29. You are right, he did not endorse.

:hi:

[Emit]

36. Last I heard, Rahm was hiding under his desk

from both Obama and Clinton!


:hi:

(as usual, madfloridian, great thread)

[madfloridian]

44. Bet a lot of Dem leaders are hiding under their desk now.

:hi:

[Tatiana]

56. We in IL are after Rahm (and so is his brother!) He'll do the right thing. n/t

[youngharry]

97. PROPAGANDA WARS

DON'T BE TAKEN IN. THERE ARE MANY RIGHT-WING POSTERS HERE POSING AS CLINTON SUPPORTERS AND SOME POSING AS OBAMA SUPPORTERS, JUST TO KEEP THE DIVIDE GOING.

DON'T BE TAKEN IN. WE ARE SMARTER THAN THAT!!

[barack the house]

16. You are so right let's try to keep our calm even though we are being antagonoised...

Remember we are trying to be made to self destruct we have the power to stop that. Great post

[State the Obvious]

17. No, she's trying to "force" Obama to select her as VP

She knows she will not be the nominee. But her strategy now is to present herself as appealing to all the Americans that do not support Obama.....seniors, whites, working class, Hispanic etc. She is saying that she can carry the states that Obama cannot.....West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania....

Watch this cleverly crafted scenario unfold in the next week. She wants to present herself as the only possible choice that will unite the party. Terry McAuliffe already started the spin. On Larry King tonight, he said that "she has put together a coalition that will help us win on November 4." Most people think he is talking about being the presidential nominee. I think she knows her only hope is to be Obama's VP.

Bad idea.

[TBF]

27. Obama's not that stupid. I'm 100% certain he knows exactly what she is after and he'll find a

polite way to sidestep it. She's not going to be his VP.

[mhoran]

71. Agreed

That would be a very poor idea, IMO.

[youngharry]

101. Hillary as VP

Bullshit. She knows that won't happen. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. SHE NEEDS TO REMEMBER HER PLACE WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND HER FUTURE, IF SHE INTENDS TO HAVE ONE. SHE IS JUST GETTING BAD ADVICE FROM MARK PENN AND PERHAPS THE DLC. THE DLC's FUTURE IS AT STAKE HERE TOO. DON'T FORGET THAT!!!

[1776Forever]

20. Carol Simpson was on LK tonight & started the same racist talk she made 2 weeks ago - link.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5909747&mesg_id=5910206

[patrice]

21. Those who have it in them to do so bear the majority of the burden to "take the high road".

If they don't, we NEVER grow; we can NEVER do better, because those who are "on the low road" CAN'T until they learn differently. The burden of the responsibility for learning belongs to those who CAN teach and you can't teach if you don't KNOW what needs to be taught.

[oxbow]

38. beautifully stated! nt.

[patrice]

42. I had the privilege of teaching highschool for 8 years.

One of the things I learned is that it only does harm to demand that "a dog" (a very noble animal in its own right, mind you) should be "a bird". Under the right circumstances some "dogs" can metamorphose into "birds", but they must be the ones to CHOOSE to do so and they don't choose to do so if you're just trying to force them, and making them angry, and not meeting your responsibility for the right circumstances. AND if the "dog" CHOOSES to remain a "dog", the rest of us need to accept that and just take responsibility for the "flying" that needs to be done.

As you can see, FREEDOM is essence - ial.

[fadedrose]

23. And they want her for Vice Presdient...yoy

It's like having your mother-in-law living with you - and sometimes that can't be avoided.

If they can't get the presidency at the polls, they'll try to get it through all kinds of chicanery if given a White House Office.....please NO NO NO

They just won't give up...

[mhoran]

73. I don't know

I don't really see Senator Clinton as the settle for the vice presidency type, but who knows? I could be wrong.

[skepticscott]

93. She wouldn't

Not for long, anyway. She'd take it only to try to upstage and undercut Obama at every opportunity, and try to cut him out in 2012. Does anyone seriously believe that someone as ambitious, powerful and ruthless as Hillary Clinton would just sit meekly by for more 8 years and defer to someone she considers far less qualified than her to be president? I certainly wouldn't want to be Barack Obama and be the only person between Hillary and the presidency.

[walldude]

25. Because for her it's not just about the presidency.. It's about history

She would be championed forever as the first woman president. Like Obama would be the first black president. It's about her legacy.. Not that I agree with her tactics, and Bill, Jesus, he's just losing it, but I do understand why they are acting so desperately. Lets hope when they finally realize what everyone else already knows, they come to their senses..

[madfloridian]

26. It's poignant and sad.

It's painful to watch.

[Kokonoe]

28. She is NOT going to leave the democratic party

..but if the democratic party leaves her, well hey.

I guess we might suffer the consequences.

Shes gonna push all our buttons people. Just keep it together,

and let her fade away without a reason to feel cheated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I'll give you the answer and it ain't a nice one

Power...

It slipping...

The last time anything even close to this happened was... 1960 when a new generation took over from the old

This is a political realignment from the right (and extreme right) to the center and the left

No... Obama is not more liberal than she is... they're both centrists

But...

She is DLC he is not... and the DLC sees their power slipping

First came Dean... fifty state policy, instead of the Southern Strategy she's using... which is Nixonian... if it ever was... in some ways worst than even Rove and Bush in 2000

It is all about the power struggle we all have been seeing to the fore

THey didn't think Obama was a threat... and when they realized he was... it was too late.

I think historians in years to come will confirm most of this

[sakura]

94. You are absolutely correct...

This is about a sea change in politics, and it is about the current holders of the reins being unwilling or unable to see that their turn is over. I feel for Hillary Clinton. Like Bill, her dream was to be president. He fulfilled his dream. It must be hard to come to grips with the idea that thing you have built your life around is just not going to come to pass. Hopefully she will realize this soon, and put the good of our country ahead of any ambition she has to run in 2012. It will be interesting to see whether the rights of millions of women to control their own bodies outweighs her ambition to be first woman president. Either way, we'll learn something important about H. Clinton.

[ccharles000]

31. She loves us all.

[nichomachus]

32. Well at least she did when that photo was taken -- 40 years ago.

[Usrename]

34. At least all of us hard-working white folks.

;)

[Arugula Latte]

88. She doesn't love me. I'm a latte sipper with too much book lernin' for her taste.

I prefer white wine to beer and I have no interest in seeing vehicles with big engines or big wheels go around a track or run over things. What's worse, I'm a middle aged (42) white woman who doesn't support The Queen Who Is Entitled To The Nomination.

[ekwhite]

116. ccharles, I respect you for your positive posts

But that response was a bit creepy. :scared: She most assuredly does not love us all. Neither does Obama. They are both politicians after all.

[madfloridian]

33. Just saw the whole first half of Larry King. Many words come to mind.

Delusional is one. Just plain old style nasty politics was what it was. Nasty stuff.

Kudos to Schultz and Stephanie Miller. They showed intelligence.

That Carol should hang her head in shame. She was awful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I was tempted to turn it on

and went NO... I don't need to watch that kind of politics fit for forty years ago

[Emit]

37. I'll have to find an on line clip

don't have cable

You all have me very curious!

[BenDavid]

39. Lets look at the quotes made by Begala and Brazille......

"Paul, you're looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater." The above comment was made by Donna "still neutral" Brazile, telling Paul Begala that the 'New Dem party' doesn't need white working-class people and Latinos..

Now here is Paul's comment: "We cannot win with egg heads and African-Americans. OK, that is the Dukakis Coalition, which carried ten states and gave us four years of the first George Bush." Seems to me that Begala was right in his comment.

Carville
"I was quoted accurately and in context, and I was glad to give the quote and I was glad I gave it. I'm not apologizing, I'm not resigning, I'm not doing anything."
-- Carville, on calling Bill Richardson "a Judas," Richardson could've stayed neutral, but he chose to screw an old friend, instead, a friend who put him on the map so he could be where he is at today.


Lanny Davis, " My concerns were retriggered when I read for the first time three excerpts from Rev. Wright's sermons published several weeks ago in a national news magazine:

- "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
-- Sept. 16, 2001 (the first Sunday after 9/11)

- "The government . . . wants us to sing G-d Bless America. No, no, no. G-- damn America; that's in the bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human."
-- 2003

- "The United States of White America."
-- July 22, 2007
"As I read and reread these words, I keep thinking: If my rabbi ever uttered such hateful words from the pulpit about America and declared all Palestinians to be terrorists, I have no doubt I would have withdrawn immediately from his congregation.Lanny Davis, April 9, 2008; Page A15

Code words? you never listed these so called racist code words they were to have uttered.

Oh well - we will lose in November, but at least you all will have broken the 700-year dynasty family chain of having Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton shoved down our throats...

[madfloridian]

40. I am speaking of Hillary and Bill using the code words.

Begala was just right out there with it. Blatant.

If you have not heard or seen the videos here the last two days, you need to do so....you need to get your head out of the sand.

Then watch a rerun of Larry King tonight and a video from LK Monday.

Race card, code words. right there.

[VolcanoJen]

41. Riddle me this, Ben.

Did Clinton win two terms without the "eggheads and African Americans"? As I recall, we helped build his coalition. With a bit of a hand from Ross Perot. Please show a path to the nomination for Hillary that doesn't involve a coaltion of those two groups that Paul Begala so eloquently highlighted.

And those aren't code words, they just plain went there. Clear as a bell. Plain as day. Nothing lost in translation.

[jonestonesusa]

67. So you tell me, what part of this do you reject?

- "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
-- Sept. 16, 2001 (the first Sunday after 9/11)

A lot of this is historical fact; perhaps not "we never batted an eye," which is a subjective conclusion. And of course "America's chicken's are coming home to roost," is a subjective conclusion; the CIA calls it "blowback."

So what part of this is hateful racist code? Code for what? Against whom? Are you saying that the members of this predominantly black congregation are potentially going to subject white Americans to genocide? They are not, they cannot, and they never have.

Basically, the only parts of this quote that are not historical fact are value-oriented or interpretive conclusions that are certainly not far off from most of what I hear from left-of-center folks these days. But thanks to HC and her supporters, we get to discuss them for months! I guess you really think this matters as to the success of an Obama presidency, I think it's a convenient excuse to oppose a black candidate for president. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on the motivation for the continuing obsession about Wright, but it's indisputable that some of what he said even in these quotes is accurate.

[madfloridian]

43. She is stereotyping voters in a terrible way

She has insulted "low income" voters.

She has insulted "blue collar" voters....whoever she intends them to be.

She has insulted white voters who are NOT hesitant to vote for an African American.

[juno jones]

85. She has insulted

Many white people who work what are considered 'blue-collar' jobs for a living. We are not all monolitic *Bubba*, and Clinton and her supporters don't get that.

My husband and myself are but two and she's also pissed off as well as my college-bound son who will be able to vote Obama in the next election.

on edit: Y'know, it's almost racist in a weird reverse way, the generalization of white working class as predjudiced Archie Bunker assholes. It certainly is classist....

[formercia]

45. For the times they are a-changin'.

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/times.html

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

[madfloridian]

46. And when that happens...when the times are changing..

the old ugly ways just don't work anymore.

[formercia]

47. The sheeple have opened their eyes

and they don't like what they see.

[formercia]

123. Four Video tributes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_8qehRGAuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en8_fPsZUCI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGe8OwnDvXk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV4uaI8pdSc

[Gman]

49. I've got to hand it to you...

you muckrake probably better than anyone else here on DU. You have mastered the art of blowing things completely out of portion while creating contexts where none exist. You have completely mastered demonization, you have also mastered the fine art of creating hate.

You're damn good at what you do.

[madfloridian]

50. "mastered demonization, you have also mastered the fine art of creating hate."

What a strange statement. I linked to the divisiveness her campaign has been doing....and you choose to blame me for it.

Way to go.

I do consider that a personal attack, actually.

Change can be painful, I guess. Her campaign has been pandering to those in the country who want this divisiveness...pandering to the poorly informed.

The blame is on the Clinton campaign, NOT on me.

Others should be speaking up as well against it.

Yes, it does attack me personally.

[Gman]

51. I'm sure you see it that way

and don't have the ability to step back and see what you are doing.

Emotions can be blinding sometimes.

[madfloridian]

52. Her campaign has divided my state. They have used the race issue

they have lied over and over about the party rules, about who is responsible for the FL fiasco.

The Clintons have forever tarnished themselves in my eyes, and in the eyes of many. That is sad.

This is a forum in which I have seen truth thrown to the roadside for the benefit of her campaign.

I have seen BS posted without links, without sources.

There is just nothing you can say to me or about me that matters now to me at all. I just do not give a damn. You have despised what I post since what...2003 2004?

No matter what I post, I am your enemy. So you just go ahead. If I consider it a personal attack I will do what I need to do.

Other than that I just don't care what you say to me anymore.

This has been forum for Clinton propaganda. I have seen lies posted, alerted...nothing. It stayed to lower the credibility.

You may not like what I post, but then you never have anyway.

I will point out what they have done, especially to my state.

[Gman]

54. Well, as a matter of fact

I've often read with interest what you've posted, especially about the FL fiasco. FL is an important state and you have given a lot of good insight into what's going on there. Your posts up until the last couple of months were fairly objective, but recently to a very declining degree and have evolved to what can only be viewed as divisive anti-Clinton venom, much like the rest of the Obamamania here. It's easy to get caught up in the mob mentality. Staying out of it and removing emotions is the challenge.

BTW, this has not been a "forum for Clinton propaganda" since at least December if it even ever was.

I think you should know by now that the Clintons had nothing to do with what happened in FL. Hillary had everything to gain from a FL primary as she did from all the other big states where her strength is. Why would she want to have it thrown out before it even happened then try to get it reinstated? You know as well as anyone else in FL that the blame falls squarely on the FDP.

And, no you're not my enemy, nor have you ever been, nor will you ever be in any sense of the word. I think you're somewhat misguided and caught up in the emotion of the moment, but not an enemy. I probably posted what I did out of emotion too. But, that's the way things are these days.

[madfloridian]

57. My state is her ticket to the convention. It has always been.

What I have seen from her campaign has been shocking to me. And may I inform you that I do NOT have Obamamania.

Hubby and I did not take sides until Hillary decided to go after FL delegates. Then we chose.

It all goes together. Of course she is using the FL delegates for all she can squeeze out of them. She has been manipulating the issue beyond belief.

I post because I see such unbelievably ignorant and divisive campaign rhetoric going on....because I see my state divided for no reason.

I won't have to do it much longer, because the race is nearly over.

The FL delegates will be seated, but counted however Obama decides to seat them...or the credentials committee which he will control.

Yes, I have saved posts that had subject lines that were just plain pure lies. I kept them because I could not believe it. There are still there. Yes, it was Clinton propaganda.

I am tired of being divided by race or by gender....and they have done both. I am scared for Bill Clinton's health when I see him sounding off like he did in that video here. Putting the rest of us down, saying we thought we were superior. Those are scary tactics.

I think you are mistaking my passion for truth for what you call "emotion". My passion is that the truth will someday come out about what happened to my state. That there will no longer be the "disenfranchisement" theme.

I may be dead before the truth comes out. But then again, who gives a damn.

[mhoran]

72. Phrases like "Obamamania"...

...are not helpful either.

[Gman]

92. Phrases like "fucking whore"

are not helpful either.

[mhoran]

95. Way to take personal responsibility

So if someone else does something wrong, that excuses you?

I don't support people saying some of the horrible things that have been said about Senator Clinton here, or about Senator Obama, or about their respective supporters.

I can't control what other people do or say, but I can control what I do or say. You could do the same.

[madfloridian]

53. You are right. Emotions are blinding.

That is what the Clinton campaign is counting on. Watch the videos I posted in the OP...go and look up transcripts from Larry King the last week.

They are dividing the races using emotional racist code words.

I would say good by to you but I keep enemies closer than friends sometimes. Safer that way.

[Douglas Carpenter]

55. a sense of entitlement, perhaps?

Sen. Clinton's campaign kind of reminds mean of the attitude of the Mondale campaign way back in 1984 or the Humphrey campaigns both in 1968 and 1972. They just felt that the nomination rightfully belonged to them and they were not about to let some young smarty pants upstarts take away what they felt was rightfully theirs.

[mhoran]

76. Maybe more a matter of expectations?

This nomination did appear to be a given for Senator Clinton for a long time. I'm sure it must be painful to let go of that expectation, both for her and her supporters. If I stand in their shoes, I understand the frustrations and anger, particularly given the historical implications of a Clinton presidency.

Regardless of how I feel about this behavior or that, I can't help but feel a certain level of compassion for Senator Clinton and her supporters. This can't be easy.

[Douglas Carpenter]

80. fair enough

I suppose if they fully expected to win the nomination and felt that they had paid their dues and had more experience and then watch their dream dissipate before their eyes - it would be an emotionally painful thing to go through.

Whenever I see an incumbent office holder give their concession speech after being defeated in a close general election - I cannot help but feel a bit sorry for them even if I supported their victorious opponent.

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. Mad, you always seem to say what I'm thinking, but you articulate it

so much better. Recommended.

[Leafy Geneva]

68. I think they are terrified of 1,500,000 small donors

That spells the end of large-donor/DLC control of the Democratic Party. It will be a revolution. And they must stop it at all costs. A McCain victory they could recover from; but not an Obama one. Hence, the Kitchen Sink Politics.

[Bensthename]

70. It is all about 2012.. That is her last shot.. She cant run if Obama wins this year.

[lcdtelevision]

77. Using racism? No. You said that

Exaggerator.

[madfloridian]

81. Golly gee....I got a lot of new folks calling me names here today.

Actually exaggerator is one of the nicer ones.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Because it's easier, and more natural for her than pretending to be a liberal.

[judasdisney]

86. We are meant to react.

There is no previous hint of this type of behavior from the Clintons. There is no continuity of racist code, nor precedents of racist code until now.

The "Clintons are power mad" explanation relies upon projection, because the irrationality of their stark behavioral changes cannot be fully explained by "the Clintons are power mad."

There are three other explanations:

(1) Bill Clinton is actually running the campaign operation, not Hillary, and the heart surgery affected him more than we knew: Major personality changes are a common trait among brain surgery patients and heart surgery patients.

(2) Bill Clinton is a CIA N.O.C. who was recruited at Oxford and knows too many state secrets that (a) Obama could never afford the on-the-job luxury of time to discover and understand in the middle of the Death Chess Match with the Neo-Nazi-cons, or (b) Bill Clinton cannot afford to let Obama learn some of those state secrets about himself and his clandestine acts as president, some of which could be utterly shocking. This explanation (Bill as N.O.C.) would explain the irrational attacks of Larry Johnson and Joe Wilson against Obama, many of which seem utterly contrived.

(3) We are meant to react. There is a deliberate effort to divide and provoke either (a) the party against itself, or (b) the party against the Clintons. Such engineered manipulation could have many purposes but all of them are strategic, long term, and Grand Chess Master-style moves that suggest a "much Bigger Picture" narrative than many would prefer to conceptualize.

[madfloridian]

87. Interesting post.

Lot to take in. Johnson and Wilson have been stunning to me. It is all odd, and it is meant to anger. I need to read your post again.

[juno jones]

90. I have been mistaken before

But I think Judas D. is from a very rigorous website as far as research is concerned. Facts worth considering there.

Thanks again Mad for another great post.

[madfloridian]

91. I thought of something when I read it.

The BCCI posts here. The closing of the books at the end of his term.

It really is an interesting post with lots of stuff. There is more going on here in this campaign than seems obvious on the surface.

[youngharry]

98. MADFLORIDIAN IS RIGHT

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE HERE THAN JUST HILLARY AND OBAMA SUPPORTERS.

THEY HAVE AN AGENDA TO DIVIDE US. DON'T BE FOOLED.

[juno jones]

99. As the down-eaters say:

Ah- yah.

[bagimin]

100. I feel exactly as you do..

confused and pissed....not necessarily in that order.

[VotesForWomen]

105. what i want to know is, have you stopped beating your wife yet? you guys are beyond pathetic.

[madfloridian]

112. Who is "you guys"? And why are we pathetic?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[VotesForWomen]

120. obama messiah, hillary satan. that shit's getting old.

[lefty2000]

107. We Are So Bad

Hillary is bad, Bill is a racist, I am a racist.

Why don't we just die and get out of your fuckin' way?

In the future, I predict there will be fewer, but better Democrats.

[Lord Helmet]

109. we don't have to do shit, people are either on board or not

[Diane R]

110. Perhaps that's the point...they don't WANT the party to be unified.

[eek MD]

111. As sad as it sounds..........

I think they're playing to many of the voters in WV and KY. :( And that's why you're hearing all of the racial code words lately.

[McCamy Taylor]

118. Sorry, but I see the divisiveness coming from all directions. Obama is not innocent.

The MSM is the most guilty of all. If Clinton said the word "bread" someone would try to claim that was a racist code word.

[Perry Logan]

121. As with all anti-Clinton posts, the premise is wrong. Obama's campaign, not Hillary's, was dirty.

[Towlie]

122. All Anti-Clinton posts? Really?

[natrat]

124. well they certainly are outing themselves as the neocon/dlc thugs that they are