Why is it ok to say that Obama is winning the "black vote" but not ok to say

[jasmine621]

that Hillary is winning the "white working class" vote?

Are statements that favor Obama any less racist than those favoring Hillary. There is a huge double standard in this primary and it going to come back to hurt Dems because they will not have necessarily elected the "best" candidate.

Anything that Obama and Obama supporters say that indicates a lock up of the black vote for Obama is treated as thought it's simply a matter of fact. Anything the indicates that Hillary has a lock of certain segments of the white population is ALWAYS treated as a racist, race-baiting statement by the media and Obama supporters, and the elite Dems who support Obama. It simply is not a fair playing field for Hillary.

[Bicoastal]

1. The Clintons and their supporters have become ardent foes of reverse racism.

How...ironic.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[DemVet]

63. Do you have proof?

No, you do not.

[Emit]

64. Proof that he helped Farrakhan organize the Million Man March?

Do you have proof he did? According to rodeodance, he did. But she has no proof. The onus is on her.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Because common-sense and reasonableness have gone out the window.

You are exactly right-on the money. The double standard is a propaganda tactic used by Obama and the media to attack Clinton. Just like Gore and Kerry before her, the media has painted her in a bad light. And the citizens, repeat the talking points and have lost all perspective.

[rodeodance]

25. Well said. thanks

[bigbrother05]

55. And how often is HRC called on the gender/sexism meme?

Have you heard even one speech that she hasn't played the "1st woman" tune?

Each has strengths and weaknesses. The question I look to is whether a campaign is spending more time emphasizing their candidate's positives or their opponent's negatives?

The media doesn't decide my vote and neither does DU!

[Auntie Bush]

75. That's what I've been saying and thinking for a long time.

And not just on this "White vote" comment of facts. It happens constantly and is the basis of Obama's campaign all along! Chilling! I can't believe people are are falling for it.

[Blue_Roses]

3. It's because Hillary is using it in the context of race baiting and

and it hits below the belt. To say that one or the other is winning the black or white vote is different than saying "he can't win the white vote because he's black." There is no double standard other than the one Hillary continues to create by saying these racial overtones, while saying she wants what's best for the party.

Also, it's YOUR subjective opinion that she is the "best" candidate to take the primary.

[PoliticalAmazon]

30. Big difference between stating demographics and saying...

a candidate can't win a certain racial demographic because of their own race.

I'm taking you at your word that you really don't get it and will explain.

To say a candidate can't win a certain racial demographic because of the candidate's own race is saying that the voters of the demographic are racist. This is saying something that is not true (some may be racist but certainly not all), and furthering the idea that Americans are racist.

It's also furthering the idea that a candidate, because of their race, is not worthy of voters votes.

The Clintons are trying to bring this election down to race and racists. They are doing this because they cannot win any other way. But the truth is this: voters vote for complex reasons, and usually they are not one-issue voters. The media finds it easier to condense the complex reasons for voters choosing their candidates so they further this ridiculous theme.

There are some voters who bigots, and the Clintons are pandering to them, telling them it's okay to be bigotted. It's a natural part of the demographics they are.

I find that so offense it makes me want to puke. To say that non-college educated, hard-working WHITE (it's always "WHITE" now with the Clintons) is a wink to the bigots telling them, "Hey, it's okay to be a bigot. It's a natural part of your demographic. ALL people of your demographic are bigots, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The Clintons are implying that American voters are racists, and a candidate, because of their race, is not worthy of votes. They are doing this because they can't win by ethical and honest means. They are at risk of destroying our country for their own selfish agenda.

The idea of having the bigot-pandering Clintons in the White House is more frightening than having McCain or Bush in the White House. Even Bush Jr did not sink to the bigot-pandering level. Even he did not try to divide voters along racial lines, telling the world "our country is filled with racists."

I hope this clarified it. There is a huge difference between stating a demographic's voting history and saying the demographic votes strictly on race, are bigots, and a candidate is not worthy of America's votes because of their race. It's wrong to pander to bigots, encouraging them to believe it is perfectly natural for them to be bigotted because of the demographic they are in.

[Blue_Roses]

31. ummm...

"I'm taking you at your word that you really don't get it and will explain."

Are you talking to me :wtf: 'cause I think what I said and what you said are pretty much the same thing just different words:

"It's because Hillary is using it in the context of race baiting and
and it hits below the belt. To say that one or the other is winning the black or white vote is different than saying "he can't win the white vote because he's black." There is no double standard other than the one Hillary continues to create by saying these racial overtones, while saying she wants what's best for the party."

[PoliticalAmazon]

40. Sorry. I was responding to your discussion and adding to it. The ...

"taking you at your word" was for the OP, and I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.

[Blue_Roses]

41. no problem...

:hi:

[Two Americas]

61. maybe

You have described the difference between the two things - stating demographics and pandering to bigotry.

I do not think the case has been made that the Clinton campaign is doing the latter. Media pundits have been pushing and pushing this theme, and it certainly has Democrats worked up and at each other's throats in a vicious frenzy of infighting, doesn't it? Think about that for a minute.

I am always suspicious when people create a scape-goat so they can point the finger and say - "over there! There are the racists!" That is mostly a function of white guilt, and tokenism. If people can believe and convince themselves and others that the racism is over there, over inside that person, and they then oppose that person violently, well then that "proves" to themselves and othesr that they are not racists. That is not constructive. Racism permeates and dominates every aspect of our culture. Tokenism and scape-goating are not solutions to anything other than to make people feel better about themselves.

Turning the Obama campaign into a referendum on who is and who is not a racist is a serious political mistake.

[havocmom]

4. Because Obama won in states with few blacks, so white working class people picked HIM?

bush has his 29% and evidently Hillary does too.

[VotesForWomen]

60. isn't it racist for you to even say that?

[havocmom]

68. Yeah, and I am a sexist. misogynist pig for not being in love with HRC too

;)

[marylanddem]

5. Because Obama does not say his skin

color makes him more electable - and this is what she is saying about her skin color.

[The Doctor.]

35. ....

[Nitrogenica]

6. Did Barack say he was winning the black vote, or is it the media pushing that?

[BlueCaliDem]

32. Exactly! Barack never said he was "winning the black vote". The *media* did. Hillary, however...

... had it in her stump speech and said it in an interview.

That's the difference here and it should be noted and remembered.

[The Doctor.]

36. I reiterate;

[marmar]

7. Obama did not go on boasting about being the only candidate who can win the "black vote" .....

.... in a USA Today interview.

[VotesForWomen]

57. well, you people sure have, and the #s show they're voting based on race.

[frylock]

70. you people?!

hmmmmmm...

[DemGa]

8. Because guesswork and supposition are all that's needed

to condemn a Clinton - nothing more or less than a virulent extension of the right-wing attacks.

[BlueManDude]

9. Obama has never touted his strength among black voters. If anything

he's downplayed it.

[dcindian]

10. Do you have some quotes from Obama?

Or just making shit up like the sniper story?

[TwilightGardener]

11. Is Obama making the argument that black people will not vote for Hillary?

Did he say "a pattern is emerging here"? Did he imply that the black vote was the most important demographic to consider in an election, the way Hillary implied about lower-class whites?

[marylanddem]

12. Thank you.

[Fearless]

13. It's not that they say it but WHY they say it.

[jaysunb]

14. All Democrats win 90% of the Black vote

so what else is new ?????

[cynatnite]

15. Because white can only be used when talking about Jenna's wedding dress n/t

[nomorewhopper]

16. hillary is saying "barack can't win the white vote" because he is black

learn to think

how anybody can't see how this is race baiting is simply deluding themselves.

[ClassWarrior]

17. That wasn't the problem.

The problem was equating "hard working Americans" with "white Americans." I know plenty of hard working Americans, and they come in all hues.

NGU.

[featherman]

18. Clinton is not "winning the white vote" in every primary so it is a fallacy

She has lost the "white vote" in seventeen states already.
She will lose it again in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota.
There is no "white vote" to speak of in Puerto Rico.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Is Obama claiming that black people won't vote for Clinton in the GE?

Because that is the claim that Clinton is making with respect to white people. She is claiming that "workers, hard-working Americans, white Americans" will not vote for the black man so we had best toss out the results of the primary process and nominate her instead.

Obama is not claiming the Clinton is unelectable due to black racism, that black people will not vote for the white person. The Clintons are not too subtly make the reverse claim about white people. It is more or less their campaign theme at this point.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Well said. Thanks.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

73. .

[uponit7771]

21. Obama isn't saying blacks will only vote for a black person therebye using his skin color as a wedge

[Stop Cornyn]

22. It would be ugly for Obama to say Hillary cannot win because she can't get hard working black voters

support.

Such a statement would be (1) factually inaccurate, (2) offensive to black voters by taking their vote for granted, (3) offensive in its implications about who qualifies as "hard working" and who does not earn that label, and (4) offensive in its implication that one candidate draws support from a base of "hard working" racially identified voters and the other candidate impliedly draws support from a base of shiftless racially identified voters.

Hillary's racially divisive statements are twice as offensive as Obama's comments about the embitterment of certain voters. If you made an issue of Obama's comments about bitter voters and yet you find Hillary's racial comments to be no big deal, you are officially under the influence of Hillary Kool-Aid.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. no shit. in fact it would be outrageous

but somehow, when the Clintons pull this stunt, not so much outrage.

[mkultra]

23. threads like this are boring

[rodeodance]

26. REC. my hope is for a good discussion.

[wvbygod]

27. There can be no good answer

It's an emotional issue and no Obama supporter here will let go of their chance
to bash Hillary. They have their hope and refuse to proclaim that Hillary has
solutions so the finger wagging will continue.

[EFerrari]

42. There are plenty of reasonable answers on this thread. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. i dont know... i think both smack of racism in the population at large

but both are equally crappy

[CreekDog]

33. it's not okay to suggest any group's votes are less/more important than others

that's the problem with what she said.

[1776Forever]

34. Try this for starters - HRC supporters & surrogates saying "A Black Man Can't Win!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5914092&mesg_id=5914092

[RazBerryBeret]

37. there is a big difference....IMO.

the "black vote" is a statistic that appears in most polls and especially exit polls. I always find that irritating. the media/politicians divide us up into race, age, income and religious preferences.

Hillary Clinton said that working class whites wouldn't vote for Obama. That is pretty blatant. I've never heard Obama say that any class of blacks would not vote for Clinton.

I know he said early on that he had a better chance of picking up her supporters than she had of picking up his, but there wasn't a race divide cited there. (was it implied? I took it more relating to his platform of change than racial)

[FlaGranny]

38. I think it is

divisive to make a point about either one. The news media loves it though.

[thevoiceofreason]

39. Improper predicate

It is the Hillary camp that is saying both. That's where the different colors of paint reside.

[stray cat]

43. Hillary can't win the black, under 35 or educated votors

Obama can't win white voters without a college education who make less than about 50,000 per year or white voters over 60.

How is that?

[durrrty libby]

44. The answer is quite simple. Hypocrisy thy name is Obot

[jenmito]

50. Provide ONE quote of Obama saying he gets the Black vote. Put up or shut up.

[durrrty libby]

56. One of the many problems with Obots is they want the truth

wrapped in some Hallmark package coated with syrup

It is simple. He gets the Black vote.

Everyone knows it. It doesn't matter who says it. It is the truth

Clown :dunce:

[jenmito]

65. The clown is YOU. Obama never claimed he gets the Black vote. Further, he never says Hillary

DOESN'T get the Black vote. Hillary's playing the race card.

Fool. :dunce:

[WeDidIt]

45. That's not what was said

"Hard working Americans, white Americans"

The phrase insuates that black Americans are not hard working Americans bringing up the stereotype of "lazy black people".

It's a blatantly racist statement.

HAd she left out the hard working bit, she would not be in the trouble she is in.

[BlooInBloo]

46. Woot! Reverse Racism! Reverse Racism!

Funny how white folks only recognize *one* kind of racism. Too bad it's the fictional one.

[ClassWarrior]

47. Well, RW white folks, at any rate.

NGU.

[jenmito]

49. Obama never SAID he's winning the Black vote. And he's never dismissed her wins as being

due to white women nor anyone else.

[BenDavid]

51. Tuesday evening ALL the pundits on ALL the channels were saying

"Over here in this congressional district is where the Blacks live and Obama will win there, now over here is where the white, working-class people live, and Hillary will do well there," I thought we weren't supposed to notice if voters were Black, white or purple.

CNN was popping party favors all night - their candidate won. I assume Olbermann over at MSGOP has been hospitalized for dehydration? At CNN they said about 500 times that Obama's victory in Carolina was "hueueueuege" while her victory in Indiana was "barely, slightly a squeaker" and then they repeat that another 500 times in case somebody missed it. CNN said Obama won over 90% of the Black vote in both states. Jon Stewart was mocking Hillary last week, saying "Obama can't win primaries? What do you call Carolina and Louisiana?" (now you going to accuse me of playing the race card)I call them "states with a heavy Black population." If America had a huge Black population, victory in November would be easy for us. Oh well - we might lose in November, but at least we will have broken the 700-year dynasty family chain of having Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton shoved down our throats...

but then again if obama is the nominee and going in knowing he will lose, and folks can say at least we did the right thing, then I ask, what is wrong with doing the wrong thing and win with HRC?

[MonkeyFunk]

52. because crying "racism!"

is the plan for Team Obama.

It helps among Democrats, but it's not going to do much to win the general.

[PretzelWarrior]

53. saying WHAT happened is different than saying WHAT will happen

Clinton's duplicitous nature has her saying things that SOUND like the truth but are in fact lies regarding white working class support of Obama. THen she insidiously goes on to project that this means white working class voters wouldn't vote for the Democratic nominee if that nominee is black.

Saying "many black voters supported Obama" does not carry with it the racial baggage that Clinton's statements did.

[Traction311]

54. Because Hillary isn't winning 90% of the white vote, unlike Obama

With the black vote.

[Two Americas]

58. the danger

The danger is that historically white voters have been driven to vote a certain way by appeals to racism.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism," by the way, so characterizing anything Obama or his associates are saying or doing as "racist" is not correct.

However, all politicians and political analysts look at voting blocs and talk about the impact of race on elections. Clinton has made some ill-conceived remarks, and this has raised the suspicion that she is doing more than analyzing and describing voting blocs, and is instead using race to advance her campaign. That may or may not be true - the arguments to that effect have not been very convincing for me. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with a candidate saying that they have a broader appeal - they cannot be necessarily held responsible for the causes of that - and every candidate has tried to make that claim over the years.

I think what is happening is not so much that whites are voting for Clinton because of race - although it would be naive to think that this is not happening to some extent - but rather than Blacks are overwhelmingly supporting Obama. The difference, then, is that we have a very strong candidate running a very effective campaign who happens to be Black. The mass media loves this, and has been playing up race all along, and much of the talking point uproar around here comes from people repeating the themes that the media pundits are inserting into the discussion.

[anonymous171]

59. When Clinton implies that her white voters are racist, she crosses the line.

[juajen]

62. Well said.

Unfortunately, obama supporters have no reason. Guess it's impossible to reason with them?

[Kahuna]

66. Obama supporters only RESPOND to the claims about Obama and black voters..

We don't 'bring it up.' Media constantly bring it up. Hillary supporters always bring it up. We do not bring it up. So now what? :shrug:

[EffieBlack]

67. That's a good question. Here's an answer

There is a drastic difference between saying "black voters are voting for Obama in huge numbers" and saying "Hillary Clinton is unelectable because black voters will not vote for her."

Barack Obama has never used the fact that he's getting a large black vote to claim or even suggest that black voters won't vote for Clinton or as a justification for superdelegates or anyone else to conclude that Clinton would not be a viable general wlwction candidate.

[walldude]

69. Not just an answer but a good answer.

Actually.. "the" answer. :toast:

[butterfly77]

71. Because what she really is saying is...

blacks need not apply,or at least that is the way I see it and so do many blacks...

[lcdtelevision]

72. It's the double standard

That makes Obama so unbeatable. It's politically incorrect to talk about whites as necessary.

[HuffleClaw]

74. crying 'racism' is the only 'defense' the obama camp seems to possess

so they use it constantly. its gotten beyond silly.