Will Hillary take the DLC and form her own party??

[cliffordu]

[newmajority]

1. God I hope so

And they should be legally prohibited from using the words "Democrat" or "Progressive" in any form in the name of this party.

Call it what it is... The Corporatist NeoCon Suckups Party.

[MyNameGoesHere]

40. So why don't you wonderful "democrats" go form another party?

Then you should be legally prohibited from voting on anything but progressive ideas, and leave the middle of the road issues alone. You could call it "the extreme left liberal we are better than you and our progressive idea are superior to you ignorant uneducated fucking idiots class and go get me a latte now you slave". You may need an acronym for that.

[NorthCarolina]

41. What issues do you consider "middle ground" that

"extreme left liberals" don't support that you do? Please give specific examples if possible, I (being a progressive) would be interested in knowing since you sound like you hold a certain amount of animosity towards liberals and liberal ideas.

[MyNameGoesHere]

44. it's not aboout "me" it is about the America as a whole.

DU is not the whole voter population and certainly not reflective of the whole of America. I do not have animosity to liberals, but i hold in contempt those that tell middle of the road democrats to leave the party. Those who utter such non-sense are not liberal or progressive. They are party racist with no tolerance for typical voters.

[NorthCarolina]

47. What I am interested in knowing though

is what specific policy issues do you feel differentiate the "Liberal" democrats from the "Middle of the road" Democrats? You obviously have segregated them from one another in your mind, so all I am asking is what "issues" do you see as defining these two segments of the party?

[MyNameGoesHere]

49. I DID NOT segregate. That is the work

of the supporters of the candidate of hope, change and unity. I have ALWAYS supported the Democratic party regardless if some issues were contrary to mine. Now all these fuck sticks want people like me to leave? Well in a word they can go fuck themselves. It is my party and my choice. Take your elitist only "true" progressives and "liberals" are welcome and shove it your ass. well not yours but those who vomit that shit on these boards.

[NorthCarolina]

56. I was only attempting to ask a simple question

about what issues you see as differing between what you termed "Liberal" Democrats and "Middle of the road" Democrats. I never made any accusation, I never spoke disparagingly, rather I simply asked you a question about policy differences based on your distinctions of Democrats that you made in the earlier post.

I am only trying to garner an idea of what tangible differences on policy issues that you see existing between these two groups within the Democratic Party. I have not, and am not stating that one group is wrong or right, but rather simply seeking to solicit your thoughts on what issues YOU believe separate them.

[WA98296]

52. And why don't republicans quit pretending to be Dems? Dems were a progressive party

before a bunch of socially moderate republicans showed up, pretended to be dems, won an election then became good friends with corporate America.

The DLC GOAL is to shift the democratic party AWAY from populist positions. Is that what you REALLY WANT?

Bill Clinton ran on a populist theme but as soon as he was sworn in he abandoned the people by OUTSOURCING our jobs through trade agreements like NAFTA, ruined our media with the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which is responsible for the consolidation of media into the hands of only a few individuals who now control everything you read in newspapers and see on tv. Do you realize that we lost real journalism? I, for one, think this is BAD for the American people. Invaded the very privacy of our bodies (and our DNA) by allowing random drug testing in the workplace for even the most inane of jobs, such as for kids who work at McDonalds, or my friend who does graphic design for the Little Nickel which is a classifieds only paper.

The population is hurting from these policies, the economy is in peril. Much of that reason is because of NAFTA. Bush has been a disaster. Reagan got the ball rolling by killing unions, but the situation we are in today would not have been possible without NAFTA and the Telecommunications Act. People are starting to pay closer attention, and they are beginning to learn that a "D" next to a candidate's name isn't necessarily enough. There are plenty of DLC (corporate loving republicans in hiding) whose days in office may limited as people realize that they CAN elect progressive democrats who care more about people than the profits of big business.

It's far past time for progressive democratic ideals to again take the reins the Democratic party.

[cliffordu]

58. DING DING DING We have a winner!!! That's exactly right.

Thanks for playing. If I had a prize you'd get it.

[WA98296]

62. Well, thank you. Hopefully others will catch on.

[BlooInBloo]

60. We already have a party. But thanks!

[MyNameGoesHere]

66. And so do I! So stop telling me to leave it. It is not YOUR right or anyone

else's. IN AMERICA I AM FREE TO CHOOSE MY PARTY AFFILIATION AND WHO I VOTE FOR. You people are not in charge of the Democratic party. Thank goodness for that.

[DemVet]

42. ...and Barack Obama would DEFINITELY have no chance of winning the GE

Hillary would take up to 40% of the Democratic Party with her.

[roseBudd]

43. Sounds like a plan Sherlock, go Perot yourselves, or should I say Nader

[DemVet]

54. See, there you go again...

..assuming I would support something like this just because I responded to a thread. Lighten up.

[IsItJustMe]

57. If you don't think Obama can win, why are you hear?

[Raine]

2. Nothing she does would

surprise me anymore. :-(

[VeraAgnes]

25. This thought is totally pulled out of the ass of the OP.

It is imaginary and complete flamebait!!!!!!! Hillary is a Democratic Candidate who is tied essentially with Obama for becoming the Democratic Nominee.

She has ALWAYS SAID, ALWAYS that she will support obama if he is the Nominee!

Should I post that michelle Obama is a transvestite? No difference.......completely made-up! Shame oin the OP'er for playing GOP tactitics. I'm sick of this hate.

[cliffordu]

59. Well.....

1. Hillary ain't tied for shit.
2. Please see # 52.
3. As Tuzla proved, what she says and what she does are two dramatically different things.....

No hate involved here. Thanks for playing!!

[DemzRock]

3. Ummmmm.... no n/t

[JohnnyCougar]

4. I asked something similar a month ago.

And I can't conclusively say "No". Hillary seems to be one of those people who will do anything or say anything to become President. Pulling a Lieberman would not shock me. In the last few days, I have seen signs that make me optimistic, though.

[PBS Poll-435]

5. You had better hope she doesn't....

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[NewHampshireDem]

6. One would hope that you, too, would be hoping she doesn't

[PBS Poll-435]

11. When have I ever advocated that?

You see more Obama people here advocating for REPUBLICANS to be the running mate.

Now if that isn't (or shouldn't be) against the rules....

[newmajority]

7. Well, if she does.....

You won't be able to shill for her here. ;)

[PBS Poll-435]

10. I am not a shill. And this "third-party" talk is divisive AT BEST

And a little more sinister in reality.

[cliffordu]

12. I'm sorry - Isn't the DLC the defacto right wing of the Democratic party?

The big money, financially "conservative", aggressive military wing??

[Maddy McCall]

15. If you have to ask, it makes your OP all the more stupid.

[PBS Poll-435]

18. Can't you find another boogie-man to be afraid of?

I am not a member of or an advocate for the DLC, but seriously...

Get Grip Soon!

Thanks

[Maddy McCall]

14. Because posting on DU is much more important than WINNING AN ELECTION.

:eyes:

God, some of you need to log off the internet once in awhile.

[newmajority]

22. And you think Hillary, ruinning as a Lieber-candidate, would win an election?

Damn, that Hillabong is packed with some great stuff tonight....

[MonkeyFunk]

64. I haven't seen one Clinton supporter

here suggests he should run as an independent or third-party candidate. Every single time it's brought up, it's just a fantasy of Obama supporters trying to stir up more divisiveness.

[greguganus]

34. Pot=Kettle. n/t

[WillyToad]

8. WIll Obama supporters ever stop their smear campaign?

Obama and Hillary's positions are almost identical on every issue

[Political Heretic]

26. Yep.

Reasons to support one over the other have to be based on something else...

[WillyToad]

9. ???

[Maddy McCall]

13. Are you drunk?

What a stupid thing to ask.

You just joined lynyrd_skynyrd in posting the most assinine DU posts today.

[cliffordu]

16. Nope, I just want to know what others think her boundaries really

are....I wouldn't be surprised at anything she might try at this stage.

What with the low information voters and all.

But then again.....

I'm just an elitist activist living under the bus, so what do I know.

Oh, yeah. I had my last drink on March 20th 1986.

[cliffordu]

17. Why?

[quakerboy]

19. I don't often agree with Maddy

But.. yup. This is a stupid post.

[cliffordu]

20. Folks were asking if she'd pull an indy run for the white house....

The DLC could "loan" her a couple million to get it of the ground....

I find the rancor very interesting here.

They could call it the "Democrat (sic) Leadership Party"

Or some other hopeless shit.

[quakerboy]

23. I have seen it mentioned a few times

I don't get it. Its a stupid idea, from the ground up. Whether you think well or ill of Hillary, its a losing proposition from every angle. That makes this a rather stupid post. My 2 cents on the matter.

[onehandle]

21. Late Saturday night is when the drunk posting is rampant.

Or just looney posting.

[Perry Logan]

24. Clintophobes are the skidmarks on the underwear of politics.

[bowens43]

27. Clintons are the shits that created the stain

[Skidmore]

30. KA-BOOM!!!

LOL! Duck, schrapnel!!

[cliffordu]

63. Kinda got pnwd on that, didn't he/she??

:rofl:

[burythehatchet]

53. "phonbia" would imply fear. I don't know anyone who fears the witch

but I do know plenty who hate her.

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. no that's not going to happen ....most of the DLC are reasonably satisfied with Sen. Obama

[last_texas_dem]

29. Doubtful

She and Obama really aren't different enough from each other on the issues for her going third party to make any sense.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. exactly

a third party break could only occur if there were stark ideological difference that would clearly cash out to major policy differences and that would mobilize significant parts of the party to join them.

In 1948 Strom Thurmand walked out of the Democratic Party because they rejected the principle of civil rights over "states rights" to continue segregation and he had a good deal of the deep south with him. And Henry Wallace the former Vice President had already left because he rejected the principle of the cold war with the Soviet Union. This had significant sympathy with the leftwing New Dealers and leftwing social reformers.

In 1968 George Wallace had left the Democratic Party to run as an independent inspired by southern rejection of integration. Most of the deep South followed him.

There is nothing even remotely comparable in differences between Sen Clinton and Sen Obama

There differences on domestic issues are marginal. There are some differences on foreign policy but nothing that would cash out to fundemental policy differences that would inspire significant portions of the party to join them.

It's simply ludidrous to imagine that they are that fundementally different.

[Exilednight]

35. I disagree......

If this were to come to pass, it would happen after this election cycle.

The DLC keeps claiming that the DNC keeps getting hijacked by the far left of the party on issues like foreign policy and the economy. If the DLC separated from the DNC, not only would they take members of our party, they'd take a decent chunk of rethugs with them too.

In other words, the DLC wouldn't siphon off Democrats only, they will truly take the third way and move further to the right on many issues. I believe the DLC stays to the left on several issues because they know that moving any further right would hurt them within the Democratic party. If a schism does happen, look for more of a right of center DLC.

[Douglas Carpenter]

37. if Sen Obama represented changes such as single-payer universal health care,

or the creation of a European style social democracy security net, or if Sen. Obama advocated major reductions in military spending or if Sen. Obama rejected in principle the concept of "the war on terror" or believed that American must move away from being the world's only global military super power or if Sen. Obama genuinely opposed "free trade" ideology .... then I could imagine a rift that could result in an actual party split.

But frankly, Sen. Obama does not advocate ANY of these things even if a number of his supporters do.

[Exilednight]

39. I think he does believe in ......

single payer health care system, but knows that there is no way to get there with the current make-up of the party. His system is one of several steps to move us in that direction. If I had to hypothesize why he didn't go the route of Hillary, mandating adults, I would say he understands that forcing people to hand over money to corporations is not universal nor very democratic.

Neither party, nor any wing of any party, totally oppose free trade. Where the ideological difference lies is on how to execute it. Whether we like it or not, we now live in a global economy. Obama was right when he told people that jobs that were outsourced were never coming back to America, the schism will come to pass when decisions have to be made in which direction to move America economically.

The other issue that no one is talking about, and is a near and dear to progressives, is global climate change. When it became fairly obvious that Gore wasn't going to run, the issue of climate change fell off the radar. I don't believe that was accidental. I believe someone in the party decided that climate change was a huge turnoff to the moderates and right-leaning voters of the party.

The one part where I disagree with Obama is military spending. I know he wants to increase it, but I'm not sure why and on what. Our military is currently crippled, but no candidate has put forth a plan to put it back together.

[shadowknows69]

31. I pray so

[Exilednight]

33. There is a good possibility that this will come to pass IF ......

Obama is elected President. If Obama wins the White House, then I would look for Hillary to separate the DLC from the DNC.

Then question then becomes, will she do it before or after the midterm elections. I would think after. She will wait to see who wins what seats in Congress, then try and take as many as possible with her.

[mtnsnake]

36. Obama has already beaten her to the punch, running the most DLC type campaign in history

Obama has DLC written all over him. He just isn't a card carrying member. It's no small wonder that DLC chief, Harold Ford, is pulling so hard for Obama to win the primary every morning on Morning Joe.

Ford predicted the DLC will play a major role in the issues debate that unfolds in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary process. The group will not side with any one candidate, he said, even though the organization has close ties to a number of potential nominees, from Vilsack to Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) and Joe Biden (Del.) to Gov. Bill Richardson (N.M.). Even Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) has expressed interest in "finding ways he could work with the DLC," according to Ford. (Ford describes Obama as a "personal friend" and says they talk regularly.)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/01/fords_next_move.html

DailyKos straw poll shows shows Kossacks prefer John Edwards 37% to Obama’s 27% with Wesley Clark a distant third at 14% (the Blogometer has checked these numbers at 6K, 13K ,and 16K votes and there has been no change in the %s). Netroots ambivalence towards Obama’s candidacy seems to stem from two related sources: 1) his perceived centrist/Liebermanesque/DLC rhetoric; 2) and his inability/refusal to lead take the lead on a major progressive issue (especially the war).

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/01/obama_wire_the.html

The DLC doesn’t necessarily pre-select candidates, but they do keep an eye out for possibilities. Obama has been on their watch-list for some time. Now that they see his sex appeal, they may rally behind him. He could be Hillary without the polarizing effect, a real possibility to hold the office.

http://pieceofmind.wordpress.com/2007/01/18/obama-lieberman-and-the-dlc/

Add to that his DLC campaign theme of "reaching out to Republicans" and it doesn't take long to see who the real DLC candidate is if you're willing to read between the lines.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. of shut up!! Damn it!! You're interfering with a very nice fantasy!!

Don't get me wrong. I fully support Sen Obama now that he has effectively won the nomination. And I do genuinely believe that he is by far better than the alternative of Sen. John McCain and marginally better than Sen. Clinton.

But just for a few brief moments it would be nice to believe .. if only for a few brief moments.. that real change was in the air...

"Winds of change blowing strong - thought I heard someone sing this song," -- Johnny Rivers

[Exilednight]

45. I wouldn't be so quick to judge ......

Harold Ford strikes me as the type to say whatever is politically expediant.

1. Obama would be a fool to not work with the DLC on certain issues. The have a strong presence in the power structure within the Democratic party and many issues will go nowhere without their help.

2. It's an internet straw poll, which is about as accurate as blind man shooting at a northern target while facing east. Deciding if someone is left, right, or center also depends on what metrics you use to measure them by.

3. Name one President in modern politics who hasn't won an election without reaching out to the other side. You have to promise the opposition a bone if you want to win. Nixon promised to end Vietnam, Carter promised to shrink government, Reagan reached out to unions (he royally screwed them in the end), with Bill it was NAFTA and economics, with Bush it was immigration.

[SoxFan]

46. This is ludicrous

The DLC is not interested in forming a third party. The organization actually has a pretty good relationship with Barack Obama, and is holding its annual meeting in Chicago this summer.

[MonkeyFunk]

48. No

Why do you guys have to invent new scenarios to be outraged about? Aren't the ones you've already invented enough?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. A solution to the ongoing civil war between left and right in the Democratic Party?

And, perhaps, we would end up with a party system more reflective of voters. Right/Left/Center

I like it.

[Amimnoch]

51. Laughable.. absolutely not.

[WinkyDink]

55. OFGS. I'm so tired of posts like these, "asking" if HRC will bolt the Party.

[crankychatter]

61. No, but if she gets the nomination they'll succeed in running out the progressives

that's the goal

keep the Party small, keep the power

[LWolf]

65. Obama would probably go with her,

since his positions on issues fit the DLC better than the rest of us.

The DLC LIKES Obama. They don't need a party of their own if he is elected.

So what would be the point?

[invictus]

67. No one would follow her. The Clintons are now irrelevant. n/t