"Obama is Unelectable"

[demwing]

Whenever I hear that phrase repeated by one of Hillary's supporters, I wonder why. Obama and Hillary have VERY similar stands on nearly every issue, but Obama is seen as more honest, and more likable than Clinton.

I just read another thread in which a "Hillary supporter" declared Obama unelectable, and then vowed to vote McCain.

Then, I had an epiphany.

When they say Obama is unelectable, it means they think "Obama is unelectable because he is black."

Whenever you hear a Hillary supporter say Obama is unelectable, ask them "Would he be electable if he were white?"

Their expressions will reveal the truth.

[rock]

1. Tough question

The truth is that "unelectable" is not an objective trait (it represents a speculation on the one who uses it). One can only tell after an election whether it's applicable (and maybe not then!).

[rurallib]

2. I had an epiphany on the flag pin the other day also

it isn't the flag pin, it's the black skin behind it. I hardly ever see McBush wear one. Last I remember he had one at his last debate probably because they all did.

[NewHampshireDem]

4. You may be right ... and, if so, it's not 'God damn America' it's the color of the people who

heard it.

:sigh:

[rurallib]

5. when you hear some of the stuff a Falwell or a Parsley have said

and there is little to no criticism of it.

[NewHampshireDem]

11. Exactly

And some of those folks--Falwell and Robertson in particular--have audiences in the millions.

[beezlebum]

15. yep- falwell vs. wright

when falwell preached hellfire and brimstone, he was acknowledging the wrath of god, condemning people for "sins" such as homosexuality and feminism and hedonism, saying innocent people deserved such fates as 9/11, hurricanes, and other disasters, and basically got a pass.

when wright cited the damning of america, he was invoking the wrath of humanity, condemning real concrete sins like racism, predatory capitalism and imperialism, torture, war, otherwise known as state-sanctioned murder, saying that guilty people deserved their fates at the hands of the people who would ultimately revolt, and yet, even among "dems," he is "racist" and "america hating."

does it boil down to skin color? hm...

[cliffordu]

3. yEP, k AND r

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

6. I am so tired of race being an issue in this primary.

And its sad because its coming from a Democratic candidate's campaign.This a complete insult of intelligence.

I am black but that does'nt necessarily mean that I am voting for Obama since we both happen to be black.(OMG yall I am black - want to know something else - I am HUMAN). Want to know who I really wanted to win this election - John Edwards.I was praying hard for a Edwards/Clark or Clark/Edwards ticket.When Edwards dropped out of the race I said "fuck it" and I did'nt visit the DU for at least a month.

Why Edwards ? Because I felt that I could relate to him more than Hillary Clinton (a woman,I'm a woman too) and Barack Obama (a black man).But oh my god stop the press,John Edwards is a white man. Someone please tell the HRC that we all have a mind of our own - and show her a mirror for her to stand in front of when she wants to know the reason why things are not going in her favor.

End of rant.

[Usrename]

9. nice rant!

:thumbsup:

from a Southern white guy

[cascadiance]

13. Another way of translating it is one is unelectable if one doesn't appeal to those who don't think..

... for themselves, and think independently...

That same USA Today comments also implied that the uneducated white people are the ones that favor her, implicitly saying that most Americans are uneducated, and in effect don't think for themselves as much more critically, and those are the people that will vote for her and are more apt not to vote for Obama.

People like you and me look beyond the racial and gender barriers and try to find the right PERSON who espouses the right BELIEFS, but inherent in the "unelectable" statement is that she's implying that most Americans can't vote rationally in this fashion. That to me is in some ways more condescending to most Americans than even a racist or sexist notion, though those are abhorent as well...

I as a white male supported Edwards earlier too, not because he was white, but because he was saying the right things about what he'd do for America. I didn't support him as much in 2004 as I did this time around, because I didn't hear as much of the good things he was saying in 2008 back in 2004 either. I support Obama now because I hear the right things more and more. Still not enough that would have me really get excited, but the last thing I'm concerned about is whether he's "electable" on his race or his ability to reach uneducated people! I'd like to think more positively about the American people that they are able to think for themselves more rationally, given appropriate time and access to information, and make the right choice for all of us. That is why we are the Democratic party that believes in the rule of the majority. Because we DO have that faith that ultimately that equation can work and that someday we'll have a strong country for it too. This is the media's Fox-style "some people say" way of trying to put out their propaganda and attribute it to some other source instead of acknowledging it is of their own creation and the over in debt Hillary is in bed with them in this message I think. I have more faith in the American people's sense of fairness and intelligence than they are trying to make it out to be.

I still wonder if some other entities will find other ways of funneling money to Bill and Hillary once their campaign is over (and probably long from now) to pay them for taking on this debt if they feel that the Clintons have distracted America enough with this mess at the end here to help McCain win or her get the presidency. We should be watching Bill and Hillary's own personal finances for months and the next year from now to check on this.

[potone]

16. I wanted Edwards, too.

I found it ironic that for the first time in my lifetime a black and a woman each had a realistic chance of being elected President, and I (a northern liberal woman), was rooting for the southern white guy. But Edwards at least talked about poverty, social class, and the corporate takeover of the country.

Now I am dismayed by the tone of the campaign. Clinton's recent comments, however she meant them, certainly sounded racist, and while Obama has stayed on the high road, some of his supporters are so nasty and hateful to Hillary and her supporters that I am shocked. Frankly, I don't see that much difference between their positions on most issues, and while I am leaning toward voting for Obama, in no small part because of his rejection of money from lobbyists, I feel disappointed that so many people wanted Hillary to drop out months ago. I didn't get a chance to vote for Edwards, but I would like a chance to have a say in the process by having a choice in my state's primary.

[DrBlix]

46. Edwards was my choice but we have what we have

The dem candidates are far better than McCain a Bush clone. Notice I said candidates with an S, there are still two last I looked.
.
Way back a group of Reps. found the perfect candidate to undermine Hillary's african american base, and with the help of controlled msm made him a "rock star".
.
Why?
.
To defeat Hillary who really is a threat.
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It was the same rep. group that uttered the words "unelectable" behind closed doors...referring to Obama.
.
McCain with no opposition in the primaries allowed in many states reps. to crossover and vote for a dem and they did voting for Obama falsely inflating his numbers. Again it is "they" that think he is "unelectable" in the GE. and want him to get the nomination.
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If that happens the same MSM that made Obama a "rock star" will destroy him.
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They have managed to pit one Dem against the other, divide and conquer, works every time.
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I happen to think that both Hillary and Obama are great candidates and I will vote for whoever gets the nomination.
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But I will stick with Hillary until the convention, many of you have forgoten we have two candidates and are giving the enemy ammo to use against us.
.
Stop the infighting and come together you are doing exactly what they want you to do.

[Jazzgirl]

29. Me 2 on all counts Carolina!

I agree and I started out supporting Edwards too. I'm a woman too and damn sure have a mind of my own. Edwards was the one that represented my values best but since he is out of the game now, Obama is the only one. I was going to support Clinton but I got so disappointed in here when I was home sick back in December and January. I couldn't believe she and Bill were saying the things they were saying and actually playing the race card on the one group of people that stood by them no matter what.

[Clark2008]

40. Except Edwards and Clark would never have agreed to be

on the same ticket.

[Mz Pip]

7. I have heard Clinton supporters

say that Obama wouldn't even be in the race if he were white. I don't know that and neither do they. Those kind of speculations can't really be proved one way or another.

What I do know is that it would be wrong for the Democratic Party to take the nomination away from the winner based on the speculation that white people won't vote for him in the GE. Again, it's speculation. One could also speculate that there are people who won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman. It's speculation.

But voting for McCain? Or not voting so McCain will win? Of what possible good can that possibly do for the country? How far down into the sewer to we have to sink before we stop this?

What would anyone who supports Hillary and all that she stands for want McCain in the White House? Spite isn't a good answer IMHO.

[MikeDJohn]

12. Remember, many Hillary supporters seem to be

Very willing to see Obama as VP... so I don't think they are aware of their racist assumptions when Obama is the front-runner.

They have a place in their mind for Obama, based upon their conceptions of who should profit first from hundreds of years racism in America. For them, it's the white woman who should be on top!

[dogday]

18. That's right, experience does not matter to whites

:sarcasm:

[Nitrogenica]

8. All he did was beat the candidate who was the "presumptive nominee" for years.

[MikeDJohn]

10. Very insightful.

I am not yet able to start a thread, being new here. But I agree with your theory. I was thinking of starting a thread that asked...

"WHAT IF Obama were born of 2 white parents?" Would people be so outraged that Mr. popularity and Mr. common sense and Mr Unity were white?

Oh I'm sure some people will say that part of his charm is because he personifies intelligent black folks. I seem to recall a former VP candidate who LOST who said something to this effect a couple months ago.... the first salvo of the Hillary racial hatred campaign, in a vain attempt to boost their voter numbers.

IT DOESN'T WORK in 2008........many racists are now DEAD, unlike George Wallace's day......and many 18 to 35 year olds don't want to hear about black versus white, since they have known stellar people of both races all of their lives.

My opinion only

[dogday]

14. That is a racist statement... I am sick of voters being grouped into

two distinct groups.. Racists and Blacks... I don't think anyone has the right to judge others because your candidate is black, and I don't think anyone has the right to judge others because your candidate is not black....

It is like the boy who cried "Wolf" he cried it so much, and so often, that when a wolf showed up, nobody believed him... The same with the term "Racist", keep using it every time to describe your candidate's opponent, and nobody is going to believe it either....

[melody]

20. It's easy to see that -- for a large number of the "he's unelectable" people - the problem IS racism

They may talk around it all they like (and the more angrily they denounce the idea, the more clear it is) but having grown up with a racist, I can spot them a mile away. I know the "polite" language they use. The problem for them is Obama's race.

[dogday]

23. You do the very thing you depise... You group together a certain

"type" of people and then you stereotype them...

[melody]

24. Racists self-select -- I'm discussing racists.

They group and stereotype themselves.

[dogday]

32. Not exactly...... I can't tell you who is who till I speak with people, and even

then, that is not always enough to make a determination... True, racists do stereotype themselves, but not all people are racist and there is the rub... You can't just go around wagging the finger at anyone who does not support Obama, and call them a racist... Then you become a participant of the same actions you, yourself, despise....

[melody]

33. I did not say all people who don't support Obama are racist ... you did

I said many of those who use race to support his being unelectable are ... and they are.

[dogday]

34. I never said they were racists, I said they were being labeled as

racist because you said the only reason whites don't vote for Obama is because they are racists, and you could tell it, even if they told you they were not... I don't label voters, I believe everyone is entitled to their choice without being questioned as to whether they are a racist... You on the other hand know how to spot them out, and even in this thread you accuse another member, one who has been here since the beginning of DU, of being a troll....

You are making the statements, you are slapping on these labels... I do not believe in doing that, but obviously you do....

[melody]

37. You're reading "labels" that aren't there because you wish to

You're just trying to pick an argument with Obama supporters.

Ergo, welcome to my ignore list.

[dogday]

38. I don't support Clinton though, and yet you place another label,

and another, and another, and you continue to get it wrong, wrong, wrong...

I would not expect any less of you, you can't rationally discuss the topic, so you label, get angry and then shut the conversation completely off....

I don't support Obama and I don't support Clinton, neither had the Get Out Of Iraq Plan I could get behind, but I will be voting for the Dem Nominee in November, I only hope your Candidate's actions will be better than yours...

[demwing]

41. So YOU explain why they say Obama is unelectable

I haven't heard a decent answer. All I've heard is veiled racist remarks, and sometimes outright racism.

[dogday]

44. I should explain that to you? Why? Who are these people you are

referring to, and when they say that to you, do you point them toward the stats that show Obama is?

These are the following reasons people will want to vote for McCain as

stated by the media

He served and will be a great leader during a time of war

He was a POW and was tortured, he deserves it on that fact alone

He is a popular US Senator

He is a maverick

He is a centrist, will appeal to both Independents and Democrats


This is what the media spin will do for McCain...

[jody]

17. BO is vulnerable on several divisive, polarizing issues such as RKBA, LGBT, DoD. It remains to be

shown whether a centrist position on them will produce more votes versus a position leaning right or left.

DoD is critical because Bush has worn out major military equipment without replacement, exhausted our troops, and underfunded health care for veterans. It will take hundreds of billions of dollars over the next decade to rebuild our military.

Race will play a role but the impact is difficult to predict.

For example, in Illinois, 5% of the voters in the primary said "Race of Candidate Was... Most Important" with 39% of them voting for Clinton and 60% voting for Obama.

See page 4 at http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#ILDEM

[melody]

22. As a woman I can tell you that Clinton being female is an even larger problem

Coupled with the fact she is hated by much of the political world, left and right, and her other stances, it's very clear Obama is the stronger candidate ... which is the exact reason why we keep hearing that Clinton is. ;)

[jody]

25. IMO BO will be the Dem candidate. What we can discuss now is his campaign strategy not that our

comments have any effect on those who will orchestrate his every move from this day forward to election day in November.

I follow RKBA very closely and BO has a history of wanting to ban semiautomatic firearms and handguns.

The electorate is about 200 million and 122 million voted in 2004.

There are about 80 million gun owners and they treasure RKBA as a right to be protected by government like all enumerated rights in the BOR and unenumerated rights protected by the 9th Amendment.

IMO, BO could resolve the issue by saying, "I promise I will veto every bill that comes to me as president that infringes upon the natural, inherent, inalienable right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense."

I'm not sure his advisers will approve such a statement and that will cost BO millions of votes like it cost Gore and Kerry.

[melody]

26. This is not the same country now as it was in 2004

Let's see which the RKBA folk treasure more -- their guns or being able to eat.

[jody]

27. Good point about "being able to eat" because BO has yet to provide details for a viable recovery

program for our economy.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

30. I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat. Your accusation of "GOP Troll" is inappropriate. n/t

[melody]

31. I doubt it n/t

[dogday]

49. Yes it is and it is labeling, something this poster excels at...

just another way that racism is used to one's advantage....

[melody]

19. Anyone who says this and adds they're voting for McCain is a Republican

We have lots of trolls about unfortunately.

[Cha]

21. I really don't care what

people who support hilary think after all she has done to tear down the Democratic Party.

Obama will win and they can cry in their beer and shots.

[BlooInBloo]

35. Yes. Clinton supporters are in favor of racism, as long as they can point the finger at someone else

It's called "racism by proxy" - and Clinton and her supporters are ALL OVER IT.

[Exilednight]

36. What does it say about Hillary that she can't win a majority in the primaries? n/t

[LWolf]

39. How about when you hear if from a non-HRC supporter? n/t

[WinkyDink]

42. A cynical opinion of a cynical opinion, perhaps.

Jesse Jackson voter here, FYI.

Perhaps a woman is "unelectable" also, per se, positions notwithstanding. It's called "going on precedent".

[lib2DaBone]

43. Obama is unelectable, Hillary is Unelectable

When will the voters in the U.S. get serious and stop screwing around? How about little issues like:
Food
Water
Clothing
Emergency Health Care
Housing
Employment

Oh I know, according to the Republicans, we don't deserve at least "as good" as we are providing for the Iraqui's. Let's NATION BUILD!! Yaaaaaaaa Let's build the best Schools, roads, churches, water, electric and phone systems ,anywhere in the world! SCREW YOU MR and Mrs AMERICAN TAXPAYER..Sorry.. we don't have any money left for you or your kids.

[Perry Logan]

45. Balderdash. People have been calling Hillary "unelectable" at DU since forever. You started it!

I notice the Obama gang like to provoke people--and then scream when their victims retaliate, completely and conveniently forgetting who started the fight in the first place. They're like a textbook on how NOT to conduct politics.

[Ian_rd]

47. Our "victims?" Oh please.

But to the point. I have stated my opinion that Hillary is unelectable for primarily the reason that since 1992, the entire right-wing media and large portions of the MSM have demonized her as evil incarnate to millions of Americans every day (that would be 16 years of solid smear), therefore giving her a low ceiling of support under which she would have to work.

What supposedly makes Obama "unelectable?"

[stillcool]

48. What? Everyone on the planet...

is aware that Hillary Clinton's main argument to the Super Delegates is that Senator Obama is 'unelectable'. Now that she has lost, she is hoping some catastrophic event will destroy Senator Obama, and hand her the nomination.

[Secret_Society]

50. Obama hasn't shown that he can connect with blue-collar workers...

which are important in important swing states. He may have nice speeches but many people don't sense that (to paraphrase one of our greatest presidents) "he feels their pain."

[FredScuttle]

51. Who's "unelectable"?

The candidate leading in every single category, including the one that actually counts, or the loser bringing up the rear in each category?